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[Deleted member 47027]

Title says it all - this is mostly for management-GAF, which DQs a lot of people since I think there's only a small percentage of us who deal with people like we do, but...

We have an employee at the company that has incredible potential - his work is really, really good, but unfortunately he looks like a bum. This "beards are popular now" trend is really irritating lately because a well trimmed beard may be popular, but people keep doing them wrong and looking like a squatch or somesuch.

Due to the quality of this guy's work, I want to promote him in the company. Unfortunately, any promotion he gets means he's seen a lot more by people who DO give a shit about his appearance. I simply can't give him this promotion without him doing a bit of a makeover and looking more presentable.

I've spoken with him, candidly, about needing him to clean up and his idea of cleaning up is not the same as mine. The trick is, I can't 'guarantee' a promotion for him if he does that - he has to do it on his own.

Anyone know any motivational tricks to get your employees to give a shit about their appearance without some horribly draconian or unfair companywide edict that forces the dress code to change? To be fair, he currently isn't seen by the public too much, and the sticking part is that I cannot let him know he's even eligible for a promotion. I just feel like I'm wasting his talents on the lowest rung, but there's just this miscommunication and he has this stupid desire to keep his nasty beard and keep dressing office casual instead of professional.

Thoughts?

 

[jamesinclair]

You work for a shit company if they value looks over work quality

 

[Deleted member 47027]

You work for a shit company if they value looks over work quality

There's certain roles where looking presentable is important and part of the job.

 

[milanbaros]

You need to be much more direct. Sit him down in your office and say how well he is doing but his career development is being held back by his scruffy appearence.

 

[Valnen]

Define "presentable". Maybe your standards are too high?

 

[Fragamemnon]

Find him a mentor in the business-ideally someone who has a job that he would like to have one day- and let him hear it from someone besides his immediate management.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

As long as he is wearing appropriate attire, and his personal hygiene is not in question, I feel his personal choice of facial hair is no one else's business.

Unless he has shaved "fuck off" into it or something.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

You need to be much more direct. Sit him down in your office and say how well he is doing his career development is being held nack by jis scruffy appearence.

I thought I was initially, as I pretty much did that, but he just didn't grasp the concept properly. I think you're right and I need to be MORE direct. Talk more about his potential - and make him want to change.

 

[Moral Panic]

Not in management, but can't you just break the rules and tell him? Doesn't seem like THAT big a problem.

 

[AkuMifune]

I'm the opposite of that. All presentation, no potential.

 

[snacknuts]

The trick is, I can't 'guarantee' a promotion for him if he does that - he has to do it on his own.

Why not? If he is not in a customer-facing role right now and has no real reason to offer a more professional appearance, I can't really blame him for not doing so. If you told him that you want to promote him, but can't do so without meeting x, y, and z criteria, he might be more inclined to do so.

 

[Valnen]

As long as he is wearing appropriate attire, and his personal hygiene is not in question, I feel his personal choice of facial hair is no one else's business.

Unless he has shaved "fuck off" into it or something.

Pretty much what I was thinking.

 

[slit]

There is something wrong with having a beard or you're saying he doesn't groom it? Razor bumps can be just as ugly to people.

 

[AbsolutBro]

Define "presentable". Maybe your standards are too high?

nasty beard and keep dressing office casual instead of professional

--

To OP, I agree you should be direct. Mention that there are positions that require being presentable to management or customers and that he can't really be considered for those until he cleans up.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Define "presentable". Maybe your standards are too high?

Raggedy, long beard and fluffy unkempt-looking hair.

Find him a mentor in the business-ideally someone who has a job that he would like to have one day- and let him hear it from someone besides his immediate management.

That's a good idea. It might be an issue with how I'm coming across and a different person may be the key.

As long as he is wearing appropriate attire, and his personal hygiene is not in question, I feel his personal choice of facial hair is no one else's business.

Unless he has shaved "fuck off" into it or something.

It's not that he has a beard, it's that his beard is out of control.

 

[BronsonLee]

I hate you Sunflower, I'll never love again!

 

[Akuun]

Anyone know any motivational tricks to get your employees to give a shit about their appearance without some horribly draconian or unfair companywide edict that forces the dress code to change? To be fair, he currently isn't seen by the public too much, and the sticking part is that I cannot let him know he's even eligible for a promotion. I just feel like I'm wasting his talents on the lowest rung, but there's just this miscommunication and he has this stupid desire to keep his nasty beard and keep dressing office casual instead of professional.

Not a manager (nowhere near), but can you hint at the possibility of a promotion instead of telling him outright? Something like "I think you can do better than the job you're doing right now, but your appearance is holding you back"?

 

[Freakinchair]

If the dress code is office casual why would he wear anything different? I wouldn't start showing up in suit + tie in a lower rung job at the off chance I might get a promotion... Is one of the stipulations for the promotion that the dress code becomes more professional?

As for the beard who cares.

Does he smell? Does he have bad hygiene? Does he do anything that might impede other peoples work? If it's none of these I don't see what the issue is.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

It really is up to him, having a manager tell him something might rub him the wrong way.

 

[slit]

Raggedy, long beard and fluffy unkempt-looking hair.



That's a good idea. It might be an issue with how I'm coming across and a different person may be the key.



It's not that he has a beard, it's that his beard is out of control.

I don't know. I think your leaving something out.

Spoiler

I don't trust anyone with a Vince Mcmahon avatar

 

[Choke on the Magic]

There are ways of telling someone they're up for a promotion without actually telling them that they're up for a promotion. If the guy is as bright as you say, he'll take the hint.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

There is something wrong with having a beard or you're saying he doesn't groom it? Razor bumps can be just as ugly to people.

He doesn't groom it well, and he thinks it looks good when people are really put off by it. He's proud of it. I don't mind having a beard, but you need to keep that shit maintained. It's not just me, either - our entire board of directors has shown resistance to my proposing him moving on up due to it, and I agree with them.

I think I'll have a seat with him this afternoon and be more direct AND give someone else above him the job of mentoring him a bit to prepare. I'm sure we can get through to him, it'll just take time.

 

[dskillzhtown]

You work for a shit company if they value looks over work quality

Promotions usually come with presentation duties. Appearance influences how people perceive the materials you are presenting. So yeah appearance is part of it.

To the OP, maybe dude just doesn't care to get promoted. I know a few guys who are fine with no upward mobility. If they stay where they are they don't have to get cleaned up, change how they talk or worry about more responsibility. I would just sit him down and ask him if he wants a promotion opportunity and walk him through some changes he would have to make so it is more likely to happen. If he doesn't change, don't worry about it.

 

[davepoobond]

I would be curious if telling him he needs to shave to be promoted is legal or construed as a type of harassment especially since you already brought it up once


I guess it would but it depends on how you word it. Just say in the new position you need to have a certain facial hair requirement or whatever. Don't just say once you shave you're good

 

[Choke on the Magic]

I don't know. I think your leaving something out.

Spoiler

I don't trust anyone with a Vince Mcmahon avatar

He is Vince Mcmahon and wants to give Daniel Bryan a title shot, but only if he shaves his beard.

 

[XenoRaven]

What if the employee feels that the beard is aiding in his success at work and these feelings are backed up by both co-workers and clients?

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Not a manager (nowhere near), but can you hint at the possibility of a promotion instead of telling him outright? Something like "I think you can do better than the job you're doing right now, but your appearance is holding you back"?

That's the approach I used. I'm all for results over appearance, but the next stop for him is in a very public facing role and he's going to HAVE to step it up quite a bit.

If the dress code is office casual why would he wear anything different? I wouldn't start showing up in suit + tie in a lower rung job at the off chance I might get a promotion... Is one of the stipulations for the promotion that the dress code becomes more professional?

As for the beard who cares.

Does he smell? Does he have bad hygiene? Does he do anything that might impede other peoples work? If it's none of these I don't see what the issue is.

The dress code is office casual for his current position, but for formal events we put on, he shows up as office casual even when it is a formal affair and we're all pretty embarrassed with it. He doesn't really feel he's doing anything wrong. Blissfully unaware at how much he sticks out in situations like that.

There are ways of telling someone they're up for a promotion without actually telling them that they're up for a promotion. If the guy is as bright as you say, he'll take the hint.

I don't think I've been direct enough. I'm going to see what this afternoon gives.

 

[thefro]

One of my co-workers is really smart and personable, but he's lazy and his presentation is an extension of that.

If his presentation was the only issue, nobody would care that much.

 

[pants]

If I had to remove my piercings for work I would no longer find work a place where I want to be. OP if you stifle the dude, I guarantee you his work quality/rate will drop, a lot of that comes from feeling comfortable and at ease at work.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

What if the employee feels that the beard is aiding in his success at work and these feelings are backed up by both co-workers and clients?

Then he's superstitious and has no business in the entertainment industry

If I had to remove my piercings for work I would no longer find work a place where I want to be. OP if you stifle the dude, I guarantee you his work quality/rate will drop, a lot of that comes from feeling comfortable and at ease at work.

Heh, I had to do that when I took this job many years back. Money's more attractive to me than self-expression.

I am concerned it may demotivate him, which is why I need to get him to want to change instead of viewing it as an order.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

I don't think I've been direct enough. I'm going to see what this afternoon gives.

I thought you were pretty direct monday night on raw man

 

[XenoRaven]

Then he's superstitious and has no business in the entertainment industry

He's probably wary of your position and feels your thoughts on personal appearance are old and outdated. Try using a middle man to get the point across. Preferably someone you are able to easily manipulate.

 

[jamesinclair]

There's certain roles where looking presentable is important and part of the job.

And if your company values looking all buttered up and pretty, rather than actually coming in and getting shit done, then it's not being run right.

I mean seriously, motivational tricks? Sounds like hes perfectly motivated to do an outstanding job, and you rather shit on his life than have his continued output.

 

[Calamari41]

What if the employee feels that the beard is aiding in his success at work and these feelings are backed up by both co-workers and clients?

Then he won't get a promotion.

OP doesn't owe the guy a promotion. He's trying to help him get one. If the dude doesn't want it enough to trim his beard and comb his hair, well I guess that's his choice.

And if your company values looking all buttered up and pretty, rather than actually coming in and getting shit done, then it's not being run right.

I mean seriously, motivational tricks? Sounds like hes perfectly motivated to do an outstanding job, and you rather shit on his life than have his continued output.

It's not always that easy when you're dealing with outside clients, which is what the OP is talking about.

 

[Malvolio]

In the corporate world, people that play the game well but have no skills end up in management. He's probably smart enough to recognize that his appearance will keep him out of the shitfest that is middle-management.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

He's probably wary of your position and feels your thoughts on personal appearance are old and outdated. Try using a middle man to get the point across. Preferably someone you are able to easily manipulate.

Yeah, I think the mentor idea with someone more malleable is key. I will go this route if the sitdown this afternoon doesn't go ideally.

 

[BronsonLee]

Edited cause I'm a doof

And if your company values looking all buttered up and pretty, rather than actually coming in and getting shit done, then it's not being run right.

I mean seriously, motivational tricks? Sounds like hes perfectly motivated to do an outstanding job, and you rather shit on his life than have his continued output.

Ya, dress code & looks are a part of some jobs you know

 

[Deleted member 47027]

And if your company values looking all buttered up and pretty, rather than actually coming in and getting shit done, then it's not being run right.

I mean seriously, motivational tricks? Sounds like hes perfectly motivated to do an outstanding job, and you rather shit on his life than have his continued output.

This company needs to do both. As a person in a position of considerable power at the company, I don't think compromising should be on the table when people will do both.

 

[Somnid]

I could probably be described as such come to think of it.

But anyway how much it matters depends on the roles, there is no such thing as a universal dress code. You probably are less likely to trust a lead system architect who has veneers and wears a suit everyday for instance.

 

[Azzurri]

My dad.

He literally looks like a homeless man, but we also own a construction business so getting dirty is pretty much a given on the job site.

 

[Router]

If its just his beard and your company has no clean shaven policy then there's nothing you can do about it. If the guy is worth promoting then do it.

 

[Verdre]

I had an unsightly beard for a while that I thought was cool. It's just something you see fundamentally different from everyone else, so if he's genuinely unaware, it might be really hard to get him to change it.

 

[JB1981]

You work for a shit company if they value looks over work quality

LOL. It's like you don't exist in reality. Do you really believe this? Do you really believe that most companies don't care about how their employees look?

 

[Deleted member 47027]

If its just his beard and your company has no clean shaven policy then there's nothing you can do about it. If the guy is worth promoting then do it.

There is no clean shaven policy but we do have"well-groomed" in there - but I'm not going to lose a very good employee completely because his definition isn't up to snuff. It's not worth the pain of losing the dude. He can just stay there and never get called up to the next level. But I'm definitely not going to lose his current production over this. Just the promotion is in question.

 

[RM8]

I've been so lucky that my bosses don't care about dress code. I'm not sure about potential, but I've been complimented for my work. And I'm wearing jeans and a beanie right now, lol, I'd be your nightmare. I'm always clean shaven, though. It's just... I'm not the biggest fan of suits and I'm good at what I do.

 

[lbk62]

I manage some people, if i dont like how they look, they dont get the Job, simple as that, IS part of the work to be presentable.
my standars are not high, just be clean, dress properly, nice hygiene, stuff like that, Basic.

On a side note, i dont dress like most of my partners, i hate to use ties.

 

[davepoobond]

In the corporate world, people that play the game well but have no skills end up in management. He's probably smart enough to recognize that his appearance will keep him out of the shitfest that is middle-management.

i feel like this could also be an element of it. feeling out the employee and seeing what he actually wants to get out of his career might be a good thing to do.

 

[andycapps]

Looks like you're sitting down with him this afternoon, which is good. I suggest going down the route of telling him that you wanted to talk to him about his goals at the company. Talk about how business casual is "acceptable" but for those wanting to move up in the company it's advisable to dress more in the business style. I have a beard too and work in a corporate environment, but I keep mine trimmed (level 2 on clippers) and trim my neck beard. Keep my hair cut pretty short too. Business casual is the only requirement at my job too but I always wear a dress shirt and dress pants anyway. One reason is I have tattoos on my arms, but I always keep them covered at work.

I see these kids a lot at work and they seem pretty new to working a "real" job. They always are wearing clothes that just barely fit in the guidelines, and generally look really sloppy. Not going to move far in the company that way. Dress that way on your own time.

You work for a shit company if they value looks over work quality

Up there with worst first post ever.

 

[jamesinclair]

LOL. It's like you don't exist in reality. Do you really believe this? Do you really believe that most companies don't care about how their employees look?

Im sure Circuit City and Enron put a great deal of importance on their employee looks.

 

[Slavik81]

Some people just don't have a sense for popular aesthetics.