Junior Mint
Member
This is pretty much common sense to everyone except jamesinclair.
Ever had an employee that refuses to look presentable, but has incredible potential?
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This is pretty much common sense to everyone except jamesinclair.
Calamari41
41 > 38
I don't think he's laughing at your description of the workplace, though it is kind of ridiculous. The funny part is where you suggest that Sasquatch can just quit, start a competing company, and drive the OP out of business. That's like the kind of shit an 18 year old would say to himself after getting fired for the first time.
jamesinclair
Banned
A small percentage?
Last I checked, the entire tech industry, which is pretty much the only thing keeping america relevant, doesnt usually give a shit about that.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
he didnt use his muscles to pound someone into agreement? what the hell is the point of bulking up if you don't assault anyone on a regular basis
I'm guessing OP is considering promoting his employee to a level where he would have to interact with clients and officials more. His neckmuff is clearly going to cause some problems there.
While I don't know the specifics, I don't believe I'd promote him. He's clearly very competent where he is, and if he isn't presenting himself in a way that would impress clients, he shouldn't be in a position where he's interacting with them.
I mean, you have someone who is thriving in his current position, and you want to move him up to one where he's clearly going to make other employees (and potentially clients) uncomfortable?
Do NOT, under any circumstances, bring up his appearance. You have a good employee. Don't make him uncomfortable, as it will impact performance.
Tech industry here! When I meet with clients or demo a product for the CEO, you bet your ass I'm not going to come in wearing flipflops.
While I don't know the specifics, I don't believe I'd promote him. He's clearly very competent where he is, and if he isn't presenting himself in a way that would impress clients, he shouldn't be in a position where he's interacting with them.
I mean, you have someone who is thriving in his current position, and you want to move him up to one where he's clearly going to make other employees (and potentially clients) uncomfortable?
Do NOT, under any circumstances, bring up his appearance. You have a good employee. Don't make him uncomfortable, as it will impact performance.
Tech industry here! When I meet with clients or demo a product for the CEO, you bet your ass I'm not going to come in wearing flipflops.
You might have to look hard and move and specialize in a certain field to find those people though.
I hate dressing up so I gravitated towards jobs that didn't involve that. I hate working for other people so I started my own business...which caused me to dress a bit nicer.
Hopefully I'll get good enough at what I do to hire a front person to look nice for me.
I hate dressing up so I gravitated towards jobs that didn't involve that. I hate working for other people so I started my own business...which caused me to dress a bit nicer.
Hopefully I'll get good enough at what I do to hire a front person to look nice for me.
TheRagnCajun
Member
When you say 'tech industry' do you mean videogames and Steve Jobs? Because its actually a much more general term than what you may of had in mind.
Maybe not everyone in America works in the tech industry?
Dark Octave
Banned
What kind of business is this?
If it's a creative business of any kind then this whole idea is silly. If this is a law firm or bank then he should probably clean up.
If it's a creative business of any kind then this whole idea is silly. If this is a law firm or bank then he should probably clean up.
Calamari41
41 > 38
You should inform the OP that he works in the tech industry so it's actually ok for this guy who looks like he just got out of his gaming dungeon to interface with clients.
Let it be known that I'm a slob and it's not entirely uncommon for me to rush off to work without shaving or running a brush through my (long) hair.
That being said, I work in the tech industry (devops/software dev), and there's usually a couple of times a year that I have to meet up with some clients, and you better believe I make sure to brush/shave/wear some nicer clothes.
If I didn't like it, I'd find another job. Simple as that.
That being said LONG LIVE MAH BOY D-BRY. YOU CAN STUFF IT VINCE.
HalfBakedProphet
Member
If anything, you sitting him down to denounce his beard will probably make him want to grow it longer and more mountain man. Before you know it he's coming to work looking like Robin Williams in Jumanji
What you want and what he wants are necessarily the same. Sure, let him know that he might be hurting his chances at a future promotion. But that's where it ends. If you've already discussed it with him, id say he doesn't give a fuck based upon the fact he didn't change. Which is fine. You're sounding borderline manipulative, like it's your job to make him conform for his own good.
What you want and what he wants are necessarily the same. Sure, let him know that he might be hurting his chances at a future promotion. But that's where it ends. If you've already discussed it with him, id say he doesn't give a fuck based upon the fact he didn't change. Which is fine. You're sounding borderline manipulative, like it's your job to make him conform for his own good.
Vermillion
Banned
My brothers and other people have always told me "dress for the job you want, not the job you have." My boss (and everyone else) at my internship kept telling me that I can dress casually, but I was always one of the few people in the office coming in with dress clothes and a tie every day (except for once, when I ran out and hadn't gotten to doing laundry yet).
I feel that it's a very good idea if you want to be noticed. And obviously, it would have worked out in this guy's case.
jamesinclair
Banned
Damn sure you get noticed
"Whos that stuck up prick that puts on a suit and tie every day? Who the fuck does he think he is?
If they kept telling you to dress casual, you're doing it wrong.
SkepticalPanda
Member
Yup.
AnotherNils
Member
ItAintEasy
Member
I used to think that appearance didn't matter when I was looking for a job or trying to move up....when I was in high school.
I am baffled by the number of people in this thread who don't think that it matters as long as the guy can deliver. In the current job market is so competitive that its crazy to think that you will be able to move up on just merit alone.
Being able to present yourself is part of being a professional. I learned that very early on in life I guess when I was playing in a band in high school and we played some nicer places such as higher end wine bars and restaurants. First time we had a gig I showed up in a tank top and jeans. We were playing to people who were paying $30 for a glass of wine and lucky for me my musical mentor saw me walking in and told me to go put some fucking clothes. From that moment on we always played in at least a shirt and tie and slacks.
Taking care of yourself is never a bad thing and I will never understand why people are opposed to cleaning up a bit.
I am baffled by the number of people in this thread who don't think that it matters as long as the guy can deliver. In the current job market is so competitive that its crazy to think that you will be able to move up on just merit alone.
Being able to present yourself is part of being a professional. I learned that very early on in life I guess when I was playing in a band in high school and we played some nicer places such as higher end wine bars and restaurants. First time we had a gig I showed up in a tank top and jeans. We were playing to people who were paying $30 for a glass of wine and lucky for me my musical mentor saw me walking in and told me to go put some fucking clothes. From that moment on we always played in at least a shirt and tie and slacks.
Taking care of yourself is never a bad thing and I will never understand why people are opposed to cleaning up a bit.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
A lot of you people are thinking this is a work. It's not a work!
Yeah. All that's right on. There's really no need for me to compromise for long because someone WILL do the same level of work AND clean up, the job market is that competitive. But I am lazy and I'd rather promote from within instead of call in ringers.
Yeah. All that's right on. There's really no need for me to compromise for long because someone WILL do the same level of work AND clean up, the job market is that competitive. But I am lazy and I'd rather promote from within instead of call in ringers.
That's co-workers that think that though, not the higher ups who do the promoting.
Vermillion
Banned
Nope. Though it was funny - the one day I dressed casually, everyone was commenting on it. Vermillion, you look so nice and casual! My co-worker told me that I should keep dressing casually since people kept commenting on it. I noticed that she came in dressed professionally every day as well - but I suppose a shirt and tie is more obvious to people.
ItAintEasy
Member
Promoting from within is always the best. I was more talking about how someone can have that kind of mentality in this job market. I hope for your sake he gets his shit together because you know what your going to get out of this guy as far as production and bringing new people in at higher positions is always a risky call.
jamesinclair
Banned
Ha, you wish.
I remember back in my undergrad college some tool would come to every class dressed in a full suit.
I have it on good authority that most professors, if you were on the line between two letters, always rounded up.
Not for him.
Palette Swap
Member
Yeah, I had to give that talk to a guy last year. I had him up for promotion but his hobo looks and sometimes awkward remarks made it a challenge.
I was pretty blunt about it, told him about what other people could expect and even if he disagreed with it, even if it sounded stupid, their judgment on these trivial things would ultimately affect his progression, his professional outlook and how much he brought home.
It worked pretty well, coming from a suit who avoids wearing suits as much as possible.
I was pretty blunt about it, told him about what other people could expect and even if he disagreed with it, even if it sounded stupid, their judgment on these trivial things would ultimately affect his progression, his professional outlook and how much he brought home.
It worked pretty well, coming from a suit who avoids wearing suits as much as possible.
Liberty4all
Banned
I think there are generational ideals at play here too . Boomers always dressed up for work, Gen X grudgingly dressed up for work because boomers ran the show, Millenials tend to just not give a shit (and yes I'm vastly generalizing).
thing is most management nowadays is still boomers and Gen X ... Outside if the tech industry clothing and appearance is most certainly a big factor in promotions. its all about the "fit" and how you carry yourself plays into that.
thing is most management nowadays is still boomers and Gen X ... Outside if the tech industry clothing and appearance is most certainly a big factor in promotions. its all about the "fit" and how you carry yourself plays into that.
BronsonLee
Member
Wh...what
How does that situation compare at all
Who the hell goes to school in a full suit
I don't think people really think it doesn't matter, it's just more along the lines of people feeling really sad about the reality of the fact the delivering on your work isn't enough. It certainly matters, that's for sure. It's one of those things where it feels like it shouldn't be that way, but it is.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I'm a hip guy, but the standards the rest of the world plays by are what we will play by, no matter how progressive things appear on the outside, we very much set ourselves apart by upholding traditional looks.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Not true at all. Certain parts ot the tech industry still need to deal with appearances (marketing, sales, PR - a lot of the public facing stuff). I've worked in games and VFX for over 10 years, and while the majority of people come to work in casual dress, but even regular artists and supervisors on the line will at least clean up a bit for anything dealing with the public for press events, interviews, etc. And the PR/marketing/sales/finance types will usually go business casual at the least if there's any sort of public facing thing going on.
OP is right - if you're going to be doing a lot of presentations and public facing work, image is a big part of it. It doesn't matter if you have the skills and do good work and can give a killer presentation if what people end up writing about your trade show keynote is how goofy the presenter looked like and why didn't the company put someone else up (or, worst case, just release a Powerpoint or PDF to the press if the guy was too distracting). Especially if this is the entertainment industry - Hollywood can be extremely petty and superficial.
BronsonLee
Member
Boy is he ever!
Vermillion
Banned
Okay, first of all - that has nothing to do with anything. What do you know about the guy besides how he dressed? Did he participate? Did he do all his work? Maybe he had a job after class?
All you know is "full suit" and somehow you're choosing to make that the reasoning for the professors not rounding up (I'm assuming that these are multiple professors).
Aesius
Member
What's truly frightening is how many people are agreeing that this guy is totally out of line for having a beard and shouldn't get the promotion based solely on that fact.
Sounds like a nightmare.
Calamari41
41 > 38
The problem isn't that the guy has a beard. The problem is that the dude looks really bad, to the point where the OP described him as a squatch.
phillipgessert
Member
I might've missed some posts, but I didn't notice anyone saying that. Even the OP is really just saying the guy will have a better time of it if he cleans up, and is kind of implying that he doesn't want to stick his neck out for a sloppy guy.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
He said the beard isn't the issue - it's that he let it grow out of control.
Junior Mint
Member
The guy's full of shit. CHOOSING to wear a suit to work = who's that stuck up prick in a suit? lololol but choosing to come to work like a bum = let him do his job and express his creativity.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I thought so, but I will reaffirm that in about 2 hours.
newdayrocks
Member
Could you have a business lunch with him, then take him to one of the mens salons (such as the kickass Grooming Lounge in DC) for a professional makeover?
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Hadn't even thought of this. Maybe as a last resort, we haven't done this for anyone before. Interesting idea though.
That's kind of offensive. I'm all for telling the guy to clean up, but scheduling an intervention type thing? If he wants to clean up but says he doesn't know how, then that could be an option I guess.
Extra Sauce
Member
You can't promote him because he has a beard? What company is this?
Beards don't usually need to be controlled. It's very rare that beards attack people, unless they are rabid.
Beards don't usually need to be controlled. It's very rare that beards attack people, unless they are rabid.
newdayrocks
Member
It very well may be that the guy just doesn't know what works vs. what doesn't. If he's up for it, having a stylist work with him for a look that's both cool and sufficiently corporate might be just what he needs.
Totally depends on the guy, though.
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