Ever had an employee that refuses to look presentable, but has incredible potential?

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No full details on what I said to him (I swear I didn't go bananas, didn't act weird, nothing crazy) but I told him I'd be partnering with someone else who can show him some new things, he said okay and was kind of acting "shut off" and I mentioned we'd like to supplement his current income with new responsibilities but it also comes with a standard of appearance, and some other things. Thought it went okay. 15 minutes later he has left the office. Didn't say anything to anyone else. No fucking clue why.
 
Sunflower said:
No full details on what I said to him (I swear I didn't go bananas, didn't act weird, nothing crazy) but I told him I'd be partnering with someone else who can show him some new things, he said okay and was kind of acting "shut off" and I mentioned we'd like to supplement his current income with new responsibilities but it also comes with a standard of appearance, and some other things. Thought it went okay. 15 minutes later he has left the office. Didn't say anything to anyone else. No fucking clue why.
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He's coming back from the salon in a Zegna suit.
 
Sunflower said:
No full details on what I said to him (I swear I didn't go bananas, didn't act weird, nothing crazy) but I told him I'd be partnering with someone else who can show him some new things, he said okay and was kind of acting "shut off" and I mentioned we'd like to supplement his current income with new responsibilities but it also comes with a standard of appearance, and some other things. Thought it went okay. 15 minutes later he has left the office. Didn't say anything to anyone else. No fucking clue why.
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6uG3yVD.gif
 
Unless he is interacting with customers on a face to face basis, or literally smells like he rolled in shit, maybe it is time for your shitty corporate culture to put results above looking put together.
 
It looks like you've already gone ahead and done something but I'd be very careful about bringing up somebody's appearance in a negative context. That can very easily lead to hurt feelings at best and a lawsuit at worst. If the guy can't make himself presentable and he won't take your hints then I'd just drop it. Just keep an open mind and if he ever cleans up then you can give him another go. My office is pretty b casual and to be honest the guys who come in wearing suits just look out of place. Understandably it's the guys and gals in legal, but other than them if I see a guy in a suit I wonder if he's from another company.
 
LuchaShaq said:
Unless he is interacting with customers on a face to face basis, or literally smells like he rolled in shit, maybe it is time for your shitty corporate culture to put results above looking put together.
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Unfortunately, it's the clients judging them on presentation, and given that it's a service industry, they have to adapt to the clients' preferences, not vice versa.
 
Miletius said:
It looks like you've already gone ahead and done something but I'd be very careful about bringing up somebody's appearance in a negative context. That can very easily lead to hurt feelings at best and a lawsuit at worst.
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People keep saying this, but nothing here is at risk of being discriminating against a protected class.
 
I hope his next employer values him as the asset he appears to be and doesn't feel the need to make him jump through hoops just to reinforce their control over him.
 
Sunflower said:
No full details on what I said to him (I swear I didn't go bananas, didn't act weird, nothing crazy) but I told him I'd be partnering with someone else who can show him some new things, he said okay and was kind of acting "shut off" and I mentioned we'd like to supplement his current income with new responsibilities but it also comes with a standard of appearance, and some other things. Thought it went okay. 15 minutes later he has left the office. Didn't say anything to anyone else. No fucking clue why.
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You did what you could and informed him of all the information. Really not much else to do but see how it rolls out in the next couple days.
 
Sunflower said:
No full details on what I said to him (I swear I didn't go bananas, didn't act weird, nothing crazy) but I told him I'd be partnering with someone else who can show him some new things, he said okay and was kind of acting "shut off" and I mentioned we'd like to supplement his current income with new responsibilities but it also comes with a standard of appearance, and some other things. Thought it went okay. 15 minutes later he has left the office. Didn't say anything to anyone else. No fucking clue why.
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Well, you tried.
 
Sunflower said:
No full details on what I said to him (I swear I didn't go bananas, didn't act weird, nothing crazy) but I told him I'd be partnering with someone else who can show him some new things, he said okay and was kind of acting "shut off" and I mentioned we'd like to supplement his current income with new responsibilities but it also comes with a standard of appearance, and some other things. Thought it went okay. 15 minutes later he has left the office. Didn't say anything to anyone else. No fucking clue why.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vxiQ9JCKvE
 
LuchaShaq said:
Unless he is interacting with customers on a face to face basis, or literally smells like he rolled in shit, maybe it is time for your shitty corporate culture to put results above looking put together.
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Dude, it's not that simple. What's so bad about being a bit more presentable for public facing roles?
 
Why don't you just hire strippers to be the client facing employees while Mr, mediocre beard can get the fuck back to actual work?


I swear some companies operate like they are taken straight out of a bad cliche highschool movie.
 
jamesinclair said:
You work for a shit company if they value looks over work quality
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I knew a guy who would always show up to office like he was going to a ghetto club, always high. His "work quality" (and the connections) is the reason why they rehired him on the spot over 5 times after firing him.

Eventually, his work quality degraded down to his looks, and they fired him after he called in and said that he won't be able to make it to a very important meeting as he is wasted out of his mind.
 
Malvolio said:
I hope his next employer values him as the asset he appears to be and doesn't feel the need to make him jump through hoops just to reinforce their control over him.
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Quit looking like a damn hobo you bum so I can give you more money -> jump through this hoop

It's not 'clean up or you're fired'. It's 'clean up and let's advance your career.' Apparently everybody is missing this

LuchaShaq said:
Why don't you just hire strippers to be the client facing employees while Mr, mediocre beard can get the fuck back to actual work?


I swear some companies operate like they are taken straight out of a bad cliche highschool movie.
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Because I don't really want a stripper to try to explain business concepts/plans, run meetings, or speak with clients about certain subsets and topics that a higher up should be knowledgeable about, ya?
 
LuchaShaq said:
Why don't you just hire strippers to be the client facing employees while Mr, mediocre beard can get the fuck back to actual work?


I swear some companies operate like they are taken straight out of a bad cliche highschool movie.
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Appearance and dress matters for certain positions and certain industries. Sorry.

What's so hard about wearing a button down, trousers, and dress shoes/loafers and getting a haircut.

Dude, it's not like working in a fucking mine lol. This is an office job. Asking someone to dress up for a likely promotion is not telling someone to make a huge sacrifice now.
 
entrement said:
Appearance and dress matters for certain positions and certain industries. Sorry.

What's so hard about wearing a button down, trousers, and dress shoes/loafers and getting a haircut.

Dude, it's not like working in a fucking mine lol. This is an office job. Asking someone to dress up for a likely promotion is not telling someone to make a huge sacrifice now.
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To some people it does suck though. There are two sides to the issue.
 
BronsonLee said:
Quit looking like a damn hobo you bum so I can give you more money -> jump through this hoop

It's not 'clean up or you're fired'. It's 'clean up and let's advance your career.' Apparently everybody is missing this



Because I don't really want a stripper to try to explain business concepts/plans, run meetings, or speak with clients about certain subsets and topics that a higher up should be knowledgeable about, ya?
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Hobo? Bum? Stripper? If you have to color your descriptions in such a fashion my guess is you realize how terrible your position is from the start.
 
Malvolio said:
Hobo? Bum? Stripper? If you have to color your descriptions in such a fashion my guess is you realize how terrible your position is from the start.
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Hobo + Bum - I'm being silly. If this is ever actually an issue, naturally I'll handle it like a normal human.

Stripper: Shaq said that, not I. DON'T YOU PUT THAT ON ME RICKY BOBBY
 
entrement said:
Appearance and dress matters for certain positions and certain industries. Sorry.

What's so hard about wearing a button down, trousers, and dress shoes/loafers and getting a haircut.

Dude, it's not like working in a fucking mine lol. This is an office job. Asking someone to dress up for a likely promotion is not telling someone to make a huge sacrifice now.
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Because... Self-expression.

...

More power to someone if their convictions about self-expression are going to prevent them from making more money. Just seems silly to me tho. I let myself get a 12 o'clock shadow (got one right now) and I work in an office environment. If my boss came to me and hinted that if I shaved on a daily basis (instead of a 2-3 day basis) I'd be up for a raise/promotion - you can bet your ass I'd shave every day.
 
Maybe you should explain to the guy that wearing a good quality button-down and a pair of Dockers is like wearing really comfortable pajamas? This fact is why I'll never understand why people would want to come into work for 8 hours in jeans and ill-fitting t-shirts, or what have you.
 
entrement said:
So you're gonna turn down a raise and promotion because you can't be bothered to put on a button down and khakis?
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Some people don't want to do it. What's so hard to fathom about it? Just accept it for what it is, people like things or they don't. Enough in fact, to not let issues of money sway them.
 
KibblesBits said:
Some people don't want to do it. What's so hard to fathom about it? Just accept it for what it is, people like things or they don't. Enough in fact, to not let issues of money sway them.
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Ok that's fine. I just don't see this a such a 'sacrifice' as some are making this to be. People make bigger sacrifices to get ahead professionally than attire considerations--additional training, schooling some while working full time with kids, developing skills, networking.

All that is much harder than dressing up.
 
Zoe said:
People keep saying this, but nothing here is at risk of being discriminating against a protected class.
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Either way it's still a high probability that you are going to hurt his feelings. Clearly the beard or scruff isn't going to make you into a protected class but it could perceive the environment to be hostile after this interaction.

Based solely on what Sunflower followed up on this guy's feelings were hurt.
 
Sunflower imagine if someone told you that your muscles were too big for your job. That you made the customers feel uncomfortable.

But yeah point the guy over to mens fashion, mens hair, and mens grooming threads on gaf.
 
Sunflower said:
No full details on what I said to him (I swear I didn't go bananas, didn't act weird, nothing crazy) but I told him I'd be partnering with someone else who can show him some new things, he said okay and was kind of acting "shut off" and I mentioned we'd like to supplement his current income with new responsibilities but it also comes with a standard of appearance, and some other things. Thought it went okay. 15 minutes later he has left the office. Didn't say anything to anyone else. No fucking clue why.
Click to expand...

Once again, are you sure he even wants to be promoted?

You think you're helping him by giving him advice on what to do to get that promotion, when in his eyes, you might be pushing him into a situation he doesn't want to be in.
 
Miletius said:
Either way it's still a high probability that you are going to hurt his feelings. Clearly the beard or scruff isn't going to make you into a protected class but it could perceive the environment to be hostile after this interaction.

Based solely on what Sunflower followed up on this guy's feelings were hurt.
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Mentioning dress code does not make for a hostile work environment either. Especially when "well-groomed" is already a company policy.
 
Zoe said:
Mentioning dress code does not make for a hostile work environment either. Especially when "well-groomed" is already a company policy.
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That's why I said at worst. It may not have any merit but some crazy might try and contrive his way into something.
 
Seeds said:
Once again, are you sure he even wants to be promoted?

You think you're helping him by giving him advice on what to do to get that promotion, when in his eyes, you might be pushing him into a situation he doesn't want to be in.
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This is probably exactly what is happening. The guy was happy with where he was and what he was doing and then a higher up comes along and drops this on him. Maybe he interpreted it as an ultimatum?
 
Sunflower said:
No full details on what I said to him (I swear I didn't go bananas, didn't act weird, nothing crazy) but I told him I'd be partnering with someone else who can show him some new things, he said okay and was kind of acting "shut off" and I mentioned we'd like to supplement his current income with new responsibilities but it also comes with a standard of appearance, and some other things. Thought it went okay. 15 minutes later he has left the office. Didn't say anything to anyone else. No fucking clue why.
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Did you even ask him what he wanted lol? The way you phrase it is like you told the guy you are trying to replace him, or that you are binging in a guy to show him how to live his life.

Ask him is he wants to be promoted and if he does he has to clean up. That's as far as it should've gone.
 
Moral Panic said:
Did you even ask him what he wanted lol? The way you phrase it is like you told the guy you are trying to replace him, or that you are binging in a guy to show him how to live his life.

Ask him is he wants to be promoted and if he does he has to clean up. That's as far as it should've gone.
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Yep. No everyone wants to be in management. That's one of the biggest mistakes the coroporate world makes. Turning a brilliant engineer into middle manager for example, where his strengths may not lie. This happens all the time in corporate America, change engineer with salesperson, programmer, etc.
 
Seeds said:
Once again, are you sure he even wants to be promoted?

You think you're helping him by giving him advice on what to do to get that promotion, when in his eyes, you might be pushing him into a situation he doesn't want to be in.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much the situation I'm grappling with now. I'm pretty sure he is melting down due to some kind of stress now. I need to let him know he's fine where he is, but he's gonna remain there - and if that's okay with him, it's sort of okay with me.

I don't really like my employees not having drive. That bugs me.
 
AnotherNils said:
"If only he was tied down by a family, he'd do what we want!"
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I can't speak from experience because I don't have a wife or kids but I would figure that if I did, I would weigh my decisions a bit more heavily. I'm more like the scraggly dude than a suit btw, my beard and hair are long and pretty unkempt right now (on vacation) will have to clean it up when I go back to work.
 
Sunflower said:
This is pretty much the situation I'm grappling with now. I'm pretty sure he is melting down due to some kind of stress now. I need to let him know he's fine where he is, but he's gonna remain there - and if that's okay with him, it's sort of okay with me.

I don't really like my employees not having drive. That bugs me.
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A lot of the Gen Y/Millenials are eschewing climbing the traditional corporate ladder. So be prepared lol.
 
entrement said:
A lot of the Gen Y/Millenials are eschewing climbing the traditional corporate ladder. So be prepared lol.
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Yeah, we've had quite a big turnaround on one of our branches because the lazy bastards don't show up on time and worse :P
 
Sunflower said:
This is pretty much the situation I'm grappling with now. I'm pretty sure he is melting down due to some kind of stress now. I need to let him know he's fine where he is, but he's gonna remain there - and if that's okay with him, it's sort of okay with me.

I don't really like my employees not having drive. That bugs me.
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You should put the IC belt on him and then have him lose it in a 60 second squash match to an intern.

He'll get the idea.
 
If he wants the job or responsibility he will present himself as such. As a manager I don't give shit about appearance, but if a company has standards and someone wants to move up, they better be ready to meet or exceed those standards.

Its hard to say about this current circumstance... i have been in this employees shoes for the most part. I used to not give a shit about my own appearance and still don't, but I do realize that I need to look a certain way if I want to move up. Thats life.
 
I'm 10 years into my career, have worked at numerous Fortune 500 companies as a consultant, and am currently in management.

I love the "let him express his creativity" posts so, so much. The ignorance is amazing.
 
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