Breaking Bad - Season 5, Part 2 - The Final Eight Episodes - Sundays on AMC

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There's 20+ years of brooding resentment informing Walt's decision. Watch him explore Eliot's library before they talk; you can taste the bitterness. Here's a man who, as Walt sees it, has his life. The last Walt wants is for him to save it.

This is why I'm almost leaning towards the machine gun being used in some kind of crazy shoot up of Elliot's house or the Gray Matter building. He doesn't want to kill a person with it, he wants to destroy something in as cathartic and direct fashion as possible.
 

Nafai1123

Banned
Walt was too prideful even before we get to know him. He sold his shares in the company for 5k because his partner and his gf (ex-gf?) started dating. He gave up his future and billions of dollars because he couldn't deal with losing.

Everything that happens is completely his doing and could have been avoided if he wasn't a narcissistic prideful asshole.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Offer me several million dollars and you'll see how embarrassed I am to accept it.

It's only a 'hand out' because walt refuses to see it any other way. The guy freely admitted that Walt is the reason the company is the way it is now and that he could do a lot of good there. Skyler didn't ask him to offer the job and both he and gretchen were genuine in their attempt to help. I honestly can't see how they could have made that offer with more sincerity.

But even if he was right and that they were thumbing their noses at him, refusing this didn't affect only him. By forgoing free money in favor of continuing his drug trade, he put his family in ridiculous danger. Not just his family even, but everyone. Gale would still be alive. Jane would be alive and presumably drug free. Jesse wouldn't be traumatized. And that's not even taking into account the hundreds upon thousands of people who's lives he ruined indirectly by producing one of the most potent addicting drugs ever. Everything, all the murders, all the heartbreak, it all could have been avoided if he had just taken that money

And for what? So that he wouldn't have to swallow his pride.

If not accepting the money = life of crime, I can see where you are coming from.

But taken as its own action, I fully empathize with his not taking that money.

1. Many adult males would decline hand-outs. And not even for shallow pride/ego reasons either. It may be seen as an honorable action by an adult to decline such easy help, if this were any other show or even real life.

2. Confusing feelings about being taken care of by his ex-girlfriend and her husband. Confusing feelings about leaving the company before it got big, and now them having to bail him out. It couldn't feel good.

3. We see Walt feeling helpless and then begin to support himself and the family after he is gone. Going back into a position of helpless recievership would feel nearly impossible after making one's own way (even if it were through crime).

Not taking the money leads to crime, so I get what you are saying. But that action to decline the money: I found it entirely understandable due to the circumstances around it and how difficult it would feel as an adult breadwinner to take a freebee. It was very much an action of hapless early Walt persona - not calculating "I want to be the big man" Heisenberg. I don't read it at all as a moment he turns really bad because he loves the meth life... I read it as an offer he couldn't accept because it was too emasculating.


Not embarrassment but pride. It is something he had created and was bought out of for 5K. Then to take a job and work for the people who he should've been equal to would be devastating to Walt. I would've done the same as Walt in that choice, he rather die than admitting defeat by taking the job.

Yes.. I agree.
 

Nameless

Member
This is why I'm almost leaning towards the machine gun being used in some kind of crazy shoot up of Elliot's house or the Gray Matter building. He doesn't want to kill a person with it, he wants to destroy something in as cathartic and direct fashion as possible.

He'll just make Elliot shit himself and cry, then win back Gretchen with that Heisenberg charisma. Series ends with Gretchen & Walt on a massive yacht off the coast of some remote island.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
He'll just make Elliot shit himself and cry, then win back Gretchen with that Heisenberg charisma. Series ends with Gretchen & Walt on a massive yacht off the coast of some remote island.

That's what we call the "McAfee ending".
 

Veelk

Banned
If not accepting the money = life of crime, I can see where you are coming from.

But taken as its own action, I fully empathize with his not taking that money.

It's not it's own action, however. Walt knows that. So you agree what walt did was immoral then?

1. Many adult males would decline hand-outs. And not even for shallow pride/ego reasons either. It may be seen as an honorable action by an adult to decline such easy help, if this were any other show or even real life.

Sounds like stubborn idiocy to me. And I say that as someone who is doing something of a sort like that right now. However, my actions will mostly affect me and only me. Once you have a family, you no longer answer only for yourself, and stubborn idiocy is no longer a luxury you can afford.

2. Confusing feelings about being taken care of by his ex-girlfriend and her husband. Confusing feelings about leaving the company before it got big, and now them having to bail him out. It couldn't feel good.

Confused feelings in this case meaning flat out delusion. Gretchen and Walt remember their falling out very differently and it's more than likely that Walt is being a jackass about it.

3. We see Walt feeling helpless and then begin to support himself and the family after he is gone. Going back into a position of helpless recievership would feel nearly impossible after making one's own way (even if it were through crime).

Again, it's only powerlessness because walt forces it to be that way. Gretchen and her husband are, by all accounts, outstanding people and didn't want anything from Walter in return for their generosity and only gave it out of a desire to not see their friend suffer. Walt's feelings of helplessness are only the result of his own delusional insecurities.

Not taking the money leads to crime, so I get what you are saying. But that action to decline the money: I found it entirely understandable due to the circumstances around it and how difficult it would feel as an adult breadwinner to take a freebee. It was very much an action of hapless early Walt persona - not calculating "I want to be the big man" Heisenberg. I don't read it at all as a moment he turns really bad because he loves the meth life... I read it as an offer he couldn't accept because it was too emasculating.

So, as we all agree, it goes back to pride. Even without accounting for his meth dealing business, I don't feel it justifies it. Lets say he never turned to drug dealing. Your saying that he would rather leave his wife a grieving widow and have to work herself to pay her bills and put her son through college and raise her daughter than accept a sincerely, generous offer. He would have Walt Jr. suffer the loss of his father at the tender age of 16. He would leave his infant daughter to grow up without a father.

This is masculity? This is something to be admired? That we should strive for? This is pride? We'd all do better without it, then.
 
I got off of work late last night and watched my recorded Breaking Bad, for a min I thought he pulled a crowbar out the trunk and I thought It was funny because he looks just like Gordon Freeman.
 

Alpende

Member
Saw the episode last night. That last scene was chilling and incredibly well done. He could have just walked away but he had to confront Hank. The moment he clicked the button to lower the garage door shit was about to go down.

Fucking love this show.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
It's not it's own action, however. Walt knows that.



Sounds like stubborn idiocy to me. And I say that as someone who is doing something of a sort like that right now. However, my actions will mostly affect me and only me. Once you have a family, you no longer answer only for yourself, and stubborn idiocy is no longer a luxury you can afford.



Confused feelings in this case meaning flat out delusion. Gretchen and Walt remember their falling out very differently and it's more than likely that Walt is being a jackass about it.



Again, it's only powerlessness because walt forces it to be that way. Gretchen and her husband are, by all accounts, outstanding people and didn't want anything from Walter in return for their generosity and only gave it out of a desire to not see their friend suffer. Walt's feelings of helplessness are only the result of his own delusional insecurities.



So, as we all agree, it goes back to pride. Even without accounting for his meth dealing business, I don't feel it justifies it. Lets say he never turned to drug dealing. Your saying that he would rather leave his wife a grieving widow and have to work herself to pay her bills and put her son through college and raise her daughter than accept a sincerely, generous offer. He would have Walt Jr. suffer the loss of his father at the tender age of 16. He would leave his infant daughter to grow up without a father.

This is masculity? This is something to be admired? That we should strive for? This is pride? We'd all do better without it, then.

You know personally... I'd take the money!

I just think the type of prideful person who would not accept this money is very common ... and I don't think it necessarily implies a Heisenbergian black mark on his character (there are plenty of those to go around).
 

Veelk

Banned
You know personally... I'd take the money!

I just think the type of prideful person who would not accept this money is very common ... and I don't think it necessarily implies a Heisenbergian black mark on his character (there are plenty of those to go around).

But you just said that, within the context of turning to a life of crime,it is a horrible action.

And that a prideful person would act pridefully is somewhat tautological. It's like saying a lustful person can be commonly found having sex.
 
We still don't know the whole history with Walt and Grey Matter so it might be more complex than just having to deal with pride and taking a handout.

He really seemed to hate everyone working there.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
We still don't know the whole history with Walt and Grey Matter so it might be more complex than just having to deal with pride and taking a handout.

He really seemed to hate everyone working there.

It's been awhile.... but I thought it was all about the feelings over Gretchen.
 
We still don't know the whole history with Walt and Grey Matter so it might be more complex than just having to deal with pride and taking a handout.

He really seemed to hate everyone working there.

Well, we've already seen how Walt deals with three-way partnerships and his sense of importance.
 

Veelk

Banned
We still don't know the whole history with Walt and Grey Matter so it might be more complex than just having to deal with taking a handout.

He really seemed to hate everyone working there.

I mentioned this in the last page, but given what we know, I think we can reasonably assume that Walt fucked up. We know that he thinks gretchen and eliot screwed him out of his due, but he says to Jesse that he sold his shares of his own free will later for a small amount to pay the rent. When Walt talks to gretchen and brings up how he was cheated out of his fortune by them, Gretchen was utterly baffled as to what he was talking about. Lastly, we know that he worked at 2 other, presumably high profile, laboratories. And of course we all know how much pride Walt has shown throughout the entire series.

With all this in mind, I don't see any other reasonable conclusion that we can reach other than that Walt pride got him kicked out (or maybe he quit willing) out of all these places to the point that he could only find work as a high school teacher. I mean, what else are we suppose to assume? That he was cheated out of every career opportunity at every place he worked at?
 
Honestly it's hard to blame Walt for leaving the company if Gretchen cheated on Walt and left him for Elliot and they were the only 3 people starting it up. Who would want to be in that situation? Obviously in hindsight it was dumb but there's no way to know at the time how successful they would be.
 

Einherjar

Member
Knowing the following events, I think Walt made the right choice. His cancer came back, who knows how long he'll live. His life is way more exciting this way. Obviously if he could remove his family from the danger, it would have been a happy ending.
 

Veelk

Banned
Honestly it's hard to blame Walt for leaving the company if Gretchen cheated on Walt and left him for Elliot and they were the only 3 people starting it up. Who would want to be in that situation? Obviously in hindsight it was dumb but there's no way to know at the time how successful they would be.

You have literally no evidence of her cheating. All that is known is that they had a falling out. And the only cheating that walt mentioned is them (Gretchen and Eliot) cheating him out of their money, to which Gretchen had no idea wtf he was talking about.

She talks too affectionately about him (and him in return) and he and Eliot are too amicable for cheating to be likely anyway.

Edit: I just checked. Gretchen says that Walt left her. The situation is vague, but he just randomly, literally left her while she and her family and him were on vacation. So, no cheating involved. Given her rich background and that her family was involved, my guess is that Gretchen's family made Walter insecure by waving their money around or something, maybe intentionally so. But it seems gretchen was innocent in this.
 

rekameohs

Banned
Knowing the following events, I think Walt made the right choice. His cancer came back, who knows how long he'll live. His life is way more exciting this way. Obviously if he could remove his family from the danger, it would have been a happy ending.

Walt's making the "right" choice in that it makes for great television. If he accepted Elliot's offer in Episode 5 of the show, well then it wouldn't be a very exciting one. :p
 

Speevy

Banned
"Guys, I'd like you to meet Mr. White. I let him take a position of his choosing within the company, so from now on, don't enter a room without letting him know. He wants to knock."

"I am the one who knocks."

"We know Walter. We know."
 

Veelk

Banned
"Guys, I'd like you to meet Mr. White. I let him take a position of his choosing within the company, so from now on, don't enter a room without letting him know. He wants to knock."

"I am the one who knocks."

"We know Walter. We know."

"Okay, Walt, here's your office space, and an assistant to get you started."

"Stay out of my territory."

"Great. Looking forward to your work."

...

"Would you like me to get you somehing to drink, Mr. White? Some Coffee?"

"Dipping sticks."

"You can't drink those, Mr. White."
 
You have literally no evidence of her cheating. All that is known is that they had a falling out. And the only cheating that walt mentioned is them (Gretchen and Eliot) cheating him out of their money, to which Gretchen had no idea wtf he was talking about.

She talks too affectionately about him (and him in return) and he and Eliot are too amicable for cheating to be likely anyway.

Edit: I just checked. Gretchen says that Walt left her. The situation is vague, but he just randomly, literally left her while she and her family and him were on vacation. So, no cheating involved. Given her rich background and that her family was involved, my guess is that Gretchen's family made Walter insecure by waving their money around or something, maybe intentionally so. But it seems gretchen was innocent in this.

Hence the if (should have made that more clear), it was a hypothetical. It was just a hunch based on the way he talks about the falling out and the "fuck you" he gave to Gretchen. I'm really interested in them going back or at least hinting what actually happened.
 
Guys

I think jesses gonna turn to god

Like literally become religious

Like become a reverend and open up a church and make his parents proud
 
This is how BB will end ...kill me.
original.jpg
 
You have literally no evidence of her cheating. All that is known is that they had a falling out. And the only cheating that walt mentioned is them (Gretchen and Eliot) cheating him out of their money, to which Gretchen had no idea wtf he was talking about.

She talks too affectionately about him (and him in return) and he and Eliot are too amicable for cheating to be likely anyway.

Edit: I just checked. Gretchen says that Walt left her. The situation is vague, but he just randomly, literally left her while she and her family and him were on vacation. So, no cheating involved. Given her rich background and that her family was involved, my guess is that Gretchen's family made Walter insecure by waving their money around or something, maybe intentionally so. But it seems gretchen was innocent in this.

Kind of interesting the first time Walter collapses in S1 right before he discovers he has cancer, he sees a rich, tall, brunette woman getting in her expensive car. He coughs and passes out. I've always wondered if he thought that was Gretchen. The shot of seeing that through Walts eyes before he passes out always felt out of place like it had some sort of skewed meaning
 
So, the term "chiral" derives from the Greek word "hand."

The concept here being that, just as your left hand, and your right hand are mirror images of one another, right?

Identical, and yet opposite.

Well, so too organic compounds can exist as mirror image forms of one another all the way down at the molecular level.

But although they may look the same, they don't always behave the same.

GoiTI9lm.png
 

PHOTOSHOP

Member
BB is going to end MGS4 style.

Walt is at Jesse's grave. Walt is about to put ricin in his mouth.....and then an eye-patched GUS FRING walks up to the grave. He then explains how his personal doctors (the ones from Mexico) stole his body from the morgue in American. The Doctors brought his body back to Mexico to fix him.
 

Lamel

Banned
So, the term "chiral" derives from the Greek word "hand."

The concept here being that, just as your left hand, and your right hand are mirror images of one another, right?

Identical, and yet opposite.

Well, so too organic compounds can exist as mirror image forms of one another all the way down at the molecular level.

But although they may look the same, they don't always behave the same.

http://i.imgur.com/GoiTI9l.png[/MG][/QUOTE]

I pointed the chiral quote out to my bro the other day, very cool.
 
Sorry if this has been brought up.

What will Skysky make of Walt's face? Will Walt tell her, or will she assume it was something to do with Lydia?
 
Sorry if this has been brought up.

What will Skysky make of Walt's face? Will Walt tell her, or will she assume it was something to do with Lydia?

I wanted to mention this too!

I think logically, Skyler would panic, no? Walt with a bruised eye after the Lydia thing would make it appear to her that someone is coming after Walt.

He'd have to confess it was Hank to get her not to think it. But that opens up other problems.

I really am curious how they treat that.
 

UrbanRats

Member
Finally caught up.

Damn, Walt as disgustingly bad as you can get, but i was so happy to see that, finally, his lies do not fool anyone anymore.
Jesse being on to him and, of course, Hank.

Also i was quite surprised to see how they immediately "blew their load" with the Hank/Walt situation, revealing their cards in the first episode.
 

KalBalboa

Banned
The hand out only fixes one of his problems too.

I might be remembering wrong but Grey Matter was going to pay his medical bills but it still would have left Skyler and the kids with no money in the future.

He also offered Walt employment and complete health coverage. Walt could've made a fortune in a short span, and probably gotten some life insurance. (I just rewatched it last week)
 

maharg

idspispopd
Gray Matter keeps coming up.

The show is much more interesting if you just accept it as a universal constant that Walt could not take a charity job from Gray Matter. He had his reasons, which haven't been revealed for the most part, but it's quite clear that he would rather be dead than accept charity from them.

If you try to ret-con the Walt from Season 1 as a sociopath, it makes the journey much less compelling, IMO.

I completely disagree (leaving aside that I don't think it's retconning). The story of a wolf in sheep's clothing is always a compelling one, and that's exactly what Walt has been all along imo. It's entirely possible that this was not the author's intent early on (though I think it more or less is at this point), but that doesn't really matter. The show is more than the sum of its parts, and that's why it's so fantastic.

I even think the fact that people refuse to believe Walt could have sociopathic traits simply because of the idea that he managed to get along in the world without great incident for the bulk of his life to this point is a fascinating lense through which to look at the show. It says some interesting things about people's perception of mental illness and criminality and amoral behaviour.

I do also think that a lot of people actually think that Walt pre-episode-1 was actually Hal from Malcolm in the Middle, and that's pretty interesting too. The way the show is framed we know so very little about his life before the show began and people clearly fill in the blanks differently.

I find it strange to assume that he was somehow less capable or willing to lie before the show than after, and what little we know of his life before shows that he was willing to destroy his career over a matter of pride, which is not exactly 'typical' behaviour. But other people fill in the blanks differently, imagining that he and Skylar were really happy, that he hadn't settled for her after leaving Gretchen as well as settling for his job after leaving his business. But that difference of interpretation is very interesting.

They've constructed something fascinating here to me, and I think Walt is an unquestionable textbook example of either antisocial or borderline personality disorder and has been from basically day one. His view of the world is extremely self-focused and his attachments to other people are possessive and unemotional. So yeah, I definitely disagree that looking at Walt as a sociopath from day one makes the show less compelling. To me it's what makes it compelling.

I mean, it's possible that whenever I finally get around to rewatching the whole thing my view on him in the early seasons will change, but I felt this way about his character very early on the first time around.
 

Veelk

Banned
I completely disagree (leaving aside that I don't think it's retconning). The story of a wolf in sheep's clothing is always a compelling one, and that's exactly what Walt has been all along imo. It's entirely possible that this was not the author's intent early on (though I think it more or less is at this point), but that doesn't really matter. The show is more than the sum of its parts, and that's why it's so fantastic.

I even think the fact that people refuse to believe Walt could have sociopathic traits simply because of the idea that he managed to get along in the world without great incident for the bulk of his life to this point is a fascinating lense through which to look at the show. It says some interesting things about people's perception of mental illness and criminality and amoral behaviour.

I do also think that a lot of people actually think that Walt pre-episode-1 was actually Hal from Malcolm in the Middle, and that's pretty interesting too. The way the show is framed we know so very little about his life before the show began and people clearly fill in the blanks differently.

I find it strange to assume that he was somehow less capable or willing to lie before the show than after, and what little we know of his life before shows that he was willing to destroy his career over a matter of pride, which is not exactly 'typical' behaviour. But other people fill in the blanks differently, imagining that he and Skylar were really happy, that he hadn't settled for her after leaving Gretchen as well as settling for his job after leaving his business. But that difference of interpretation is very interesting.

They've constructed something fascinating here to me, and I think Walt is an unquestionable textbook example of either antisocial or borderline personality disorder and has been from basically day one. His view of the world is extremely self-focused and his attachments to other people is possessive and unemotional. So yeah, I definitely disagree that looking at Walt as a sociopath from day one makes the show less compelling. To me it's what makes it compelling.

I mean, it's possible that whenever I finally get around to rewatching the whole thing my view on him in the early seasons will change, but I felt this way about his character very early on the first time around.

My question is this:

What can walt possibly do to show he is not a sociopath in your eyes then? There are plenty examples where I think walt shows genuine love and affection for his family, but you can find some sort of self serving aspect in every act period. If things like caring for Jesse when he needed him don't count because you assume that he was just doing to to keep him as a trophy or whatever, even if we only have indirect indications of that, then I can't see how he can prove himself otherwise.
 

strobogo

Banned
This show is too good. I don't think I've ever seen a show get better every season and never drop off. There are 7 episodes left, but I have full faith that they will all continue to build to an amazing finale. I can't think of a show that wasn't prematurely canceled or intentionally 2-3 seasons that didn't drop off at some point.
 
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