It would be really helpful if you could describe how Assad is winning and how his forces are destroying the rebels. Please share the details.
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UN Inspectors attacked by snipers while attempting to visit chemical attack site
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It would be really helpful if you could describe how Assad is winning and how his forces are destroying the rebels. Please share the details.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
KillerMan91
Member
Aren't the rebels pretty much as bad as the regime when it comes to shit that they have done during this civil war? There really isn't good side in this conflict.
archnemesis
Member
The Islamists are likely to lose without the help of the US and her allies. They certainly have a motive for provoking an intervention. That being said, I think it's best to support neither side until we know more about the attack. Hopefully the UN inspectors will find clues about who is responsible.
Assad has not been destroying the rebels.
The west doesn't want to intervene directly. Everything they've done so far points the other way.
Synth_floyd
Banned
UN inspectors are a joke anyway. The evidence is likely gone and/or tampered with in the meantime since the attack. And their job is to establish what happened but not who did it. Not that it matters. The western powers have already decided that Assad did it because they want him to look bad to give them rational to attack. And Russia/Iran has already decided that it was the rebels because they want the rebels to look bad and for Assad to win the war.
It likely was Assad (who has already used chemical weapons before and has the means and motive to do so) but just like all political debates, people make up the facts to suit their own opinions.
It likely was Assad (who has already used chemical weapons before and has the means and motive to do so) but just like all political debates, people make up the facts to suit their own opinions.
If I was an ambitious rebel, that sort of assumption would sound like free reign to do what I wanted with chemical weapons. Or, at minimum, justification.
It's just as likely that the rebels were responsible for sniper fire, either by accident or by design. So many people and groups and factions calling themselves rebels, can we really assume they *all* received and will choose to obey orders not to fire on white trucks? #dudeswithguns
USA is in a tough situation here. Someone is gassing citizens in Syria. Could be the government. Could be an "rogue" rebel group, could have been Iran or Hezbollah or friggin anyone. Lots of these dipshit group would love to see the USA dragged into another conflict, incurring billions more in debt, thousands of more US soldiers losing their lives, more international US resentment.
But someone has to do the right thing. People are being gassed to death. Russia is all like "don't repeat the mistakes of the past" but .. that's not applicable here. Hussein had no weapons, Bush sold us the lie that he did. But Obama is not selling any weapons lies. The dead people in the street, dead birds, animals women and children... countless reports from countless people.. citizens were gassed. There are chemical attacks.
But who's responsibility is it to clean it all up? Then who rebuilds Syria for the next 20 years?
USA is in a tough situation here. Someone is gassing citizens in Syria. Could be the government. Could be an "rogue" rebel group, could have been Iran or Hezbollah or friggin anyone. Lots of these dipshit group would love to see the USA dragged into another conflict, incurring billions more in debt, thousands of more US soldiers losing their lives, more international US resentment.
But someone has to do the right thing. People are being gassed to death. Russia is all like "don't repeat the mistakes of the past" but .. that's not applicable here. Hussein had no weapons, Bush sold us the lie that he did. But Obama is not selling any weapons lies. The dead people in the street, dead birds, animals women and children... countless reports from countless people.. citizens were gassed. There are chemical attacks.
But who's responsibility is it to clean it all up? Then who rebuilds Syria for the next 20 years?
FreedomFighter
Member
For the past year, the vast majority of reports show the rebels have been pushed back considerably and really only hold the northern part of the country. For the past few months specifically, Assad's forces have been winning every major battle.
He would have no reason to use chemical weapons. This entire scenario makes no sense and seems to be the West wanting to intervene because the proxy war is taking too long.
What doesn't make sense is Western intervention. Your conspiracy theory is based on the fact that we'd like to END a proxy war? Wouldn't that be... you know, against the entire point of a proxy war?
captainnapalm
Member
Only if it's proxy war you're winning.
Synth_floyd
Banned
The sad thing is that every single major actor in this conflict simply wants power and nothing more. Assad wants to keep his iron-fisted dictatorship going with his Alawite minority ruling over the majority Sunnis. The Sunnis want dutiful representation in a country that they have the majority in (I guess they have the most legitimate case in the conflict). Their problem though is that they have the least amount of power. The jihadist groups want to set up their own Islamist state, some of whom are trying to make a "caliphate" or whatever and are fighting everyone else. The western powers want the Assad regime to fall and strike a proxy blow against Russia/Iran/Hezbollah. Russia and Iran don't want to lose their client state. Hezbollah doesn't want to lose their sugar daddy Syria and threaten their state-within-a-state status in Lebanon. etc etc
There are really no good actors, everyone is just selfishly using the situation to grab as much power as possible.
There are really no good actors, everyone is just selfishly using the situation to grab as much power as possible.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
What battles? The opposition have almost unchecked reign of everything north of Hama (whose head they pasted yesterday) and the only thing stopping the total seizure of Aleppo and Idlib provinces is a handful of military bases that have been taken one by one. A recent opposition offensive in Aleppo city proper has taken more territory, and in the last few days they have captured th highway much of the regime-held areas were using to resupply. In Derra they have regularly been capturing border crossings and military outposts, and have been taking large amounts of territory in the cities and towns. In Deir ez-Zor they control most of the contryside thanks to the open nature and their ATGMs. They have been slowy grinding closer to capturing the city itself. In Damascus the rebels have been either holding their own easily or in many cases taking territory in Jobar, Barzeh, Qaboun.
Even Latakia is at risk as ISIS' little excursion the other week showed. A relatively small grouping of Jihadis took village after village and got within kilometres of Qardaha. It was largely a symbolic gesture - if they had actually used a large amount of men and resources they could have taken much of the province before Assad would be able to react. Will be much harder if they decide to do that now, though. They revealed how weakly it was defended and I believe some NDF units and Hezbollah fighters moved into there to shore things up.
You clearly live in some alternate reality where the glorious forces of the Syrian people are sweeping forth through noble Sham, smiting the Zionist jihadis before them like that sweet Vietnam bit in Watchmen. Even the combined might of the Gulf, Israel, France, the UK and AmeriKKKa cant defeat such heroes.
You need to pop that bubble, yo.
Every single version of events is entirely possible though.
Real rebel attack sponsored by higher ups.
Broken arrow rebel operation not authorized by opposition leaders.
Al Qaeda splinter faction working alone.
False flag described above.
CIA delaying discovery while Pentagon figures out an approach.
It's a complete mess.
But Assad has the most to lose, so that's where my Occam's Razor cuts.
Joel Was Right
Member
Map for context
The rebellion ran away from the moderates. Now the hardcore islamists have their own factions, and it's like multiple sides fighting for similar causes. The enemy of your enemy is your ally, but also a reason why you're not getting as much support as you potentially might. Even in the face of you not getting that support initially, causing the necessity for assistance from hardcores.
So was it an excuse that remains an excuse? Maybe.
Hari Seldon
Member
Can't the west just persuade Turkey to annex this country and re-form the Ottoman empire? It would be far better to funnel aid and weapons to turkey rather than to all of these various rebel groups who seem just as nefarious as Assad.
Sanky Panky
Banned
Sounds like every manufactured excuse that has "forced" the US into every war since the Spanish-American war.
The conflict seems inevitable at this point. Gotta feed some defense contractors/energy companies.
The conflict seems inevitable at this point. Gotta feed some defense contractors/energy companies.
Come now, this is hardly the same situation as we've seen recently. It's obvious we'd rather stay out of this conflict.
Ether_Snake
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Nah, times have changed, the proxy war didn't work, Assad was winning, now it's plan B within the next 48 hours. And the Russians are about to let go of Assad anyway. The situation has changed, accept it.
Map for context
Draw a pipeline from Afghanistan to Syria.
RumblingRosco
Member
Those are some brave mother fuckers. Get sniped, turn around, get a new vehicle, drive back in to the same area.
Sanky Panky
Banned
The public and international support is not there yet. It is clear that they are working hard to change that. We'll see how it all pans out.
phosphor112
Banned
They shouldn't let killers get in the way of doing their job.
More power to them. I hope they find out who did it. Both the gassing and the shooting.
Apparently they don't have a mandate to say who did it. As for what happened earlier my bet is it was some trigger happy Rebel who was hastily told by his commander to kind go away and let the inspectors do their job.
Clearly. Everyone knows supplying one side with superior weaponry means you don't want to involve yourself! pshaw.
Good to see the American public seem to have learned from the Bush wars, though.
phosphor112
Banned
So, the UN can't say who did it publicly?
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
The civil wars that are happening in their own countries have nothing to do with us, we can provide aid and relief, but we certainly not going to join a war
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
How would they know? It's not like they have red lasers for bad guys and blue lasers for good guys.
Escape Goat
Member
It could have been aliens too. This whole thread is speculation. But if you look at past incidents involving UN inspection teams, delay and deny are routine occurrences. Couple that with the fact Syria quickly agreed to let inspectors in leads me to believe they're playing for time. But thats just speculation from me so lets not pretend NeoGAF is helping or hurting policy decisions anywhere in the world.
maquiladora
Member
Pretty much 100% now. Probably a limited attack with cruise missiles at a small number of targets. The real question will be what happens after that. There's a reason why Obama has had no interest in getting involved with Syria for the past couple of years...
The US ordered its UN infiltrators to obstruct the mission. Then the war mongers blame Syria.
The U.N. is blocking its own inspectors, at least for the moment.
The UN was in Syria to investigate 6 month old attacks, but 5 days is enough to invalidate the investigation of their master piece false flag.
The U.N. is blocking its own inspectors, at least for the moment.
The UN was in Syria to investigate 6 month old attacks, but 5 days is enough to invalidate the investigation of their master piece false flag.
New vid from today
Incendiary bombs?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDD6cKyc0PQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1lvgp6jJsw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPczTI717FA …
From a twitter account.
Doctors in Urum Al Kubra-which was targeted say White Phosphorus was used!
Incendiary bombs?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDD6cKyc0PQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1lvgp6jJsw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPczTI717FA …
From a twitter account.
Doctors in Urum Al Kubra-which was targeted say White Phosphorus was used!
Sirpopopop
Member
Arms which no one has received yet.
Eighty Deuce
Banned
It's ironic that these foreign fighters that I spent a year fighting on the Syrian border during my Iraq deployment have turned on Assad. Fuck both sides; America should not help the FSA.
kobashi100
Banned
Assad is a scumbag!!
What is this Vid,
FSA commander resigns!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwztg3qBMBU&feature=c4-overview&list=UU4AG478SgTM2gTDe7UFjuqw
Israel used white phosphorus in gaza 2009, where is the problem?
http://www.hrw.org/node/81760
I hope russia and iran will answer a NATO attack, the fun is over.
Yep, all that superior weaponry that hasn't actually been given to anyone yet sure is turning the tide in this war.
IdreamofHIME
Member
Sorry about your experience man, but that is just a clear example of how pointless war is. It's not the people on the ground with the grievances, it's the suits at the top pulling the strings.
Yesterdays ally will be tomorrows enemy and vice versa. So what's the point in it all? It's just a giant spinning roulette wheel of death and pain.
Not sure why people seem to think the US is supplying arms. The majority of arms the rebels use are those from cache's captured when they win battles against the regime.
Exactly. What the hell is up with people needing to find a good guy to root for and a bad guy to root against? There are no good belligerents (rebel or regime) in Syria and haven't been for a very long time now. The only people who deserve our sympathy and help are the civilians.
superdeluxe
Member
Which is why you need to destroy the means of delivery of chemical weapons
So? They haven't been received yet, but we're talking about the US's willingness to get involved -- I think signing off on arming one of the factions in this mess tells me they aren't nearly as averse to getting embroiled in this as you make it sound.
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