The multimedia device side appeals to basically nobody. While this generation of consoles have sold 80 - 100M units each, the $99 and below media devices like Roku and AppleTV have less than 10M sold under their belts. No way anyone is going to pay 5x to 10x that for a gimmicky media player.
Microsoft: "Its up to us to prove that [Xbox One is] worth $100 more [than PS4]"
- Thread starter Canis lupus
- Start date
The multimedia device side appeals to basically nobody. While this generation of consoles have sold 80 - 100M units each, the $99 and below media devices like Roku and AppleTV have less than 10M sold under their belts. No way anyone is going to pay 5x to 10x that for a gimmicky media player.
Garrett 2U
Member
Yeah maybe.. better with Kinect
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
I understand their reason for jumping into the next gen with the 360. But I don't understand the simultaneous need to stick a thumb in the eye of everyone who bought the first Xbox by completely dropping all support for it right away.
I lol'd.
Hmmm...never thought of it that way. Good point.
I'm not going to say Kinect is a waste of time. I had a lot of fun with Dance Central for instance. The voice and face stuff sounds neat. It's just I don't think they've shown its worth that extra money yet. I don't even think they have a Kinect game coming out for launch. The Tv stuff is worthless to me since I don't watch it live and I don't buy consoles just off of launch games.
I guess I'm just saying that Microsoft is going to have to work really hard to justify that price difference. I have a cousin who wants a next gen console for christmas and his mother is eyeing that extra $100 she could keep.
I guess I'm just saying that Microsoft is going to have to work really hard to justify that price difference. I have a cousin who wants a next gen console for christmas and his mother is eyeing that extra $100 she could keep.
ChiliManiac
Banned
SenjutsuSage
Banned
I'm seriously dumbfounded at any argument that brings the shrinking number of people who are watching tv into their argument, as if the number of people watching tv doesn't still significantly dwarf combined gamers on any platform, pc, smartphone and tablets included.
Does Roku and AppleTV have the kind of games lineup that the Xbox One does and will have going into the future? Does it pack the graphics performance to even deliver the kinds of game experiences that the Xbox One can? Weak argument. The Xbox One isn't just some gimmicky media player, and that's a very silly and purposely ignorant way to look at it.
Does Roku and AppleTV have the kind of games lineup that the Xbox One does and will have going into the future? Does it pack the graphics performance to even deliver the kinds of game experiences that the Xbox One can? Weak argument. The Xbox One isn't just some gimmicky media player, and that's a very silly and purposely ignorant way to look at it.
Exactly what I was going to post.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
Make a Venn diagram. Make one huge circle represent TV watchers. Make one tiny circle represent gamers. The minuscule area where they overlap is the audience for a games console that controls their TV. And only a small fraction of that minuscule slice would be willing to pay $500 for that privilege.
It's like you didn't even read the very first part of his very first sentence, where he specifically referred to the multimedia device side of the Xbone.
Just amazing.
EventHorizon
Member
My marketing comment was a joke to point out the absurdity of trying to promote the XB1's capability to simply exchange one remote for another. So in stead of using my DVR remote, I would instead us an XB1 remote to send the signal to the console that would in turn use an IR blaster to send the signal to the DVR. Why would anybody do that?
And while it is true that few people use a DVR, that is not true for the multimedia enthusiast who would plop down $500 in order to control their TV by voice commands. I was also responding to someone in this thread that was trying to make the case that the Kinect would be a good replacement for the harmony remote, another enthusiast device. The point is that the price of the device is too high for these features to be bought by the masses. Only the enthusiast are in the potential market at the XB1's current cost. That enthusiast market has a different profile than the mass market. That is why the added features of the Kinect are not working to justify the XB1 being $100 more.
The reason why Sony cut out the PS2 BC from PS3 was because that people kept buying more PS2's over PS3's. Sony themselves even admitted it.
WrenchNinja
Member
What in blue blazes are you talking about?
SenjutsuSage
Banned
The Xbox One is, based on the games lineup, a hardcore gaming platform first that happens to do a number of other things, too. No matter how much people try to box the Xbox One into this gimmick media player, or purely control your tv with your hands or voice box, it completely falls flat on its face when you factor in the kinds of gaming that will be possible on the Xbox One, and all the big releases and big game exclusives that will be coming to the system.
Anyway I'm done now, because I'm not going to keep having these silly arguments with anybody that insists on portraying the Xbox One as something other than a hardcore gaming device simply because it offers other things, too. It's not worth the time.
w1ck3dn1nj4
Member
Yup the onus is certainly on you MS to prove your $100 premium is justifiable, just like it was on you to show that your magnanimous policy of hindering stuff like basic browser, Netflix and YouTube behind your paywall shows that XBL is better value proposition than PS+. Go fuck yourself MS. You can spin, moneyhat and 180 all you want. Theres nothing you can do that will sucker me back, short of getting rid of XBL paywall with a guarantee that you would not revert to your DRM plans in the future. No thanks, Ive had enough of your antics.
SPACECADET
Member
Penguins&PolarBears
Member
So far it's been a very small decline overall, but Twitter may actually be starting to reverse the trend by making live TV watching more social. Twitter is increasing ratings for shows. I'm sure Microsoft is aware of this phenomenon.
In any case TV-viewing is a million times more used than either video games or Blu-ray, so shrinking or not it is still a feature of huge importance to a lot of potential customers.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
The Xbox One is, based on the games lineup, a hardcore gaming platform first that happens to do a number of other things, too. No matter how much people try to box the Xbox One into this gimmick media player, or purely control your tv with your hands or voice box, it completely falls flat on its face when you factor in the kinds of gaming that will be possible on the Xbox One, and all the big releases and big game exclusives that will be coming to the system.
Anyway I'm done now, because I'm not going to keep having these silly arguments with anybody that insists on portraying the Xbox One as something other than a hardcore gaming device simply because it offers other things, too. It's not worth the time.
Show me where I said it wasn't a gaming device.
You made the argument that it was silly to bring TV viewship into the equation (which I actually agree with). You punctuated your argument by saying there are more people watching TV than gaming, which was apropos of nothing, since nobody would argue that.
My point was simply to point out that TV viewship does nothing to help Xbone, since the number of people interested in those multimedia functions are few and far between when measured against total TV viewers.
It's all a moot point since this whole TV thing is a stupid angle from which to tackle the debate.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
I see we're not talking about my initial claim anymore, but having just read The Xbox 360 Uncloaked a month or so ago, my memory is refreshed so I'll try to explain.
Although Microsoft is a company with huge cash reserves, the Xbox unit has limited budget. As I said, they were losing huge amounts of money with no hope of ever breaking even, so they couldn't just blindly spend and hope for the best. Ed Fries, who was the head of their first party studios at the time, made a huge gamble spending an extraordinary sum of money on acquiring Rare. That gamble wasn't really paying off. Then Halo 2 had to be delayed which caused a huge financial hit, and their fiscal year predictions ended up in the trash bin. Finally, Ed Fries resigned and Shane Kim took over in a very bad moment. Some hard decisions had to be made, studios had to be closed, and the resources rerouted to Xbox 360 which was launching relatively soon with practically no first party games in development. Dropping support for the original Xbox was an unfortunate necessity, but the time has shown it was the right decision.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
But this has almost nothing to do with Xbone. As I said to (insert name here because my memory is shit), if you made a Venn diagram where you had one huge circle for TV viewers and one comparatively small circle for gamers, the tiny area of overlap is the number of people who would care about the TV stuff on Xbone. And only a tiny fraction of those would be willing to spend $500 for those functions.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
If we aren't talking about the same thing, then I guess we have nothing else to discuss.
But we'll always have the memories
Edit: Sorry for the double post.
Fucking perfect.
blitzcloud
Banned
Sony has proven this generation that they just won't throw the towel despite backlash. They effectively created a superior service (that will get even better with ps4) than XBLG for a lesser MSRP price. They also turned the tides around in terms of exclusives. And they are still producing games for PS3.
Why should I choose anything but sony, based on their comeback this gen?
Why should I choose anything but sony, based on their comeback this gen?
Yeah but you're paying (a lot) extra for the media functionality. The problem with the Xbox One is that it tries to appeal to the intersection of gaming + media on a ven diagram. Gaming performance has been watered down to support media functionality (Kinect included) and media costs more than it should because it's grafted to an expense gaming console and online paywall.
I get that the entire purpose of "One" is to be that one device, but I think it's a flawed approach. Why buy an expensive master of none when you can get better single-purpose devices for much less?
That aside, Xbox One's advantages over the PS4 are unproven, gaming aside. They all do basically the same media stuff like Netflix and Hulu. What on the Xbox justifies a $100 premium over the PS4? Voice commands and HDMI passthrough? That's a hard sell.
Penguins&PolarBears
Member
Ballin! PSTriple yo!
$500 is a lot of money for something you can't expense. Apple gets away with it because they have amazing marketing skills and diehard loyal fans.
They don't want to lose that core gamer circle, but they want to expand their circle. Maybe the primary console buyer does not care about Xbox TV, but their wife, sister, father, brother, mother, roommate might care.
The Xbox One is, based on the games lineup, a hardcore gaming platform first that happens to do a number of other things, too. No matter how much people try to box the Xbox One into this gimmick media player, or purely control your tv with your hands or voice box, it completely falls flat on its face when you factor in the kinds of gaming that will be possible on the Xbox One, and all the big releases and big game exclusives that will be coming to the system.
Anyway I'm done now, because I'm not going to keep having these silly arguments with anybody that insists on portraying the Xbox One as something other than a hardcore gaming device simply because it offers other things, too. It's not worth the time.
Very well said. Would be nice to move past this crap. I think at E3 and Gamescom Microsoft proved that they're making a game console primarily for core gamers. The fact that they want to also put in features to appeal to a broader audience doesn't make it less of a core games console anymore than Sony using PS2 to sell DVD movies or PS3 for Blu-ray movies.
Twin Tails
Member
And this doesn't? I mean ever with the whole Red Ring thing people are still happily paying for gold and playing Xbox.
Yes but you're paying more their wishes to reach a broader audience. Ironically an audience they will never reach at the price they are asking. As a gamer how do you feel knowing that die space was sacrificed for inclusion of media co-processors that could have went towards a better GPU for gaming?
Ballin! PSTriple yo!
$500 is a lot of money for something you can't expense. Apple gets away with it because they have amazing marketing skills and diehard loyal fans.
lol alot of money. yeah it was, back in high school. i pay more than that in taxes every week
heres my todays blackcard lunch bill -
different audiences. if the xbone didnt have titanfall, i wouldnt let that door stop 100 foot near my house even if it was a 200$. since it has titanfall i can pay up to a grand for it. same with how i paid more than 500$ for a ps3 because i wanted to play uncharted. didnt bother before that.
time is the priority at this stage of my life, not value. and i dont have time to play killer instict, 20 FPS deadrising, knack and whatever the fuck console manufacturers are lining up for their trashy launch, nor do i have time to be a loyal supporter of some brand (other than apple, because apple has class, unlike ms and sony). give them software, and people will buy
plus theres the iphone 5S next month
Xbox very well create more interest in gaming from non gamers simply wanting a better multimedia experience.
Taking the poster's blurb about twitter boosting tv watching, now imagine snapping twitter to the side of the latest Walking Dead episode... That could very well appeal to some people. Not me, but someone.
Like I said before, Xbox may start off slow upon release, but once the features are in peoples hands, it may just explode into popularity.
There is no way to predict such things.
That is what I'm hoping. I feel like MS getting knocked down a notch to put them in a comeback position is going to be better than if they just coasted on 360 success into this gen with no critical feedback. Of course I hope Sony continues to bring it.
I have hope that mandatory Kinect is going to lead to devs actually using it, and some really cool features. I hope they do not put out a kinect-less version at this point. $100 is not that big of deal for a one-time console purchase.
Ricerocket
Member
lol alot of money. yeah it was, back in high school. i pay more than that in taxes every week
heres my todays blackcard lunch bill -
different audiences. if the xbone didnt have titanfall, i wouldnt let that door stop 100 foot near my house even if it was a 200$. since it has titanfall i can pay up to a grand for it. same with how i paid more than 500$ for a ps3 because i wanted to play uncharted. didnt bother before that.
time is the priority in this stage of my life, not value. and i dont have time to play killer instict, 20 FPS deadrising, knack and whatever the fuck console manufacturers are lining up for their trashy launch, nor do i have time to be a loyal supporter of some brand (other than apple, because apple has class, unlike ms and sony). give them software, and people will buy
plus theres the iphone 5S next month
Open drink, fuck I wanna hang out with you
Give me all that TequilaIacobellis
Junior Member
Has this thread really turned into how much someone is willing to blow on lunch?
Give the shit a rest. Microsoft fucked up their messaging, leave it at that.
Give the shit a rest. Microsoft fucked up their messaging, leave it at that.
Douchiest post I have read all day.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
Do you honestly see lots of non-gamers buying a $500 gaming console so they can wave their arms to open menus?
If parents with disposable income are the ones buying it for their house multimedia features and/or gimmicks may make a difference.
I dunno. And neither do you. That's my point. Years ago, did I think something called Facebook would dethrone MySpace? Not really, but here we are.
Also, you are describing it in the most simple downplaying way possible.
Would I pay $500 for a games console/media box that aggregates my movies(bluray and ultraviolet) music, tv and games, all controllable with my voice and all on the same input? Sounds good to me.
SPACECADET
Member
lol alot of money. yeah it was, back in high school. i pay more than that in taxes every week
heres my todays blackcard lunch bill -
this is... awful.
Penguins&PolarBears
Member
A PS2 cost more than a Dreamcast. A PS3 cost more than a 360. If they hadn't used DVD or Blu-ray they probably could have cut the cost of the device or put in slightly better GPU hardware. This is nothing new. Every consumer electronics device that Apple puts out could cut out features and put in a better GPU. Microsoft went all out on GPU for the original Xbox and they got their butts kicked by PS2. Microsoft went all out on GPU again for the 360 and they got their butts kicked by the Wii.
Honestly I find the whole GPU power thing stupid and I try to avoid spec wars. I look at the games and judge the console by what it's games are like. Most of the time the game console with the best graphics isn't even the most successful, because the system with best graphics doesn't necessarily have the best games. Why am I going to demand they put in a better GPU when I don't have a technical background and there is no proof that having the best GPU means having the best games of a generation?
If you don't think the games on Xbox One are appealing then don't buy it. If you think the games look good then buy it. Buying any electronics solely on the basis of specs is not smart.
They don't even have to snap Twitter to the side of the screen. They can just have SmartGlass on your phone/tablet keep the Twitter conversation in sync with whatever you are watching on TV.
Put on CNN and SmartGlass syncs Twitter comments about what's on CNN, flip to AMC and SmartGlass syncs Twitter comments to what's on AMC... It can even filter the Twitter comments by the people you follow on XBL. Want to talk about something they said on Twitter you can Skype them during the commercial break and watch the program together.
Meet Lunchbox.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
True. But that number may not be as large as MS hopes.
But you're a gamer. We were talking non-gamers. I don't see many of them taking that dive. This isn't a Wii situation where it's only a couple hundred bones.
If I'm being totally honest with myself, I see the Xbone dominating the US just like the 360. But I think it'll have far more to do with dudebros wanting to play Madden and Calluhdoody with their fellow dudebros and since they've always used Xbox for that, they'll continue to.
But who knows? Only Jesus and his father, Santa Claus.
And outrageously priced too.
EventHorizon
Member
You are right that the XB1 is a good gaming console. Which is probably why you get so frustrated trying to defend it. The part you are not getting is that while the XB1 is a good gaming platform, the PS4 is a better one. All the other stuff is just extra fluff on top of the gaming capabilities. Sure they are nice to have but they aren't what people are using to decide which console to buy. The fact that MS is trying to justify a $100 more expensive gaming console on the back of non gaming features shows how out of touch they are.
lol alot of money. yeah it was, back in high school. i pay more than that in taxes every week
heres my todays blackcard lunch bill -
different audiences. if the xbone didnt have titanfall, i wouldnt let that door stop 100 foot near my house even if it was a 200$. since it has titanfall i can pay up to a grand for it. same with how i paid more than 500$ for a ps3 because i wanted to play uncharted. didnt bother before that.
time is the priority at this stage of my life, not value. and i dont have time to play killer instict, 20 FPS deadrising, knack and whatever the fuck console manufacturers are lining up for their trashy launch, nor do i have time to be a loyal supporter of some brand (other than apple, because apple has class, unlike ms and sony). give them software, and people will buy
plus theres the iphone 5S next month
So you took your friends out to eat and they made you foot the bill. How sweet
recklesscognition
Member
Outside of a gaming console, XB1 doesn't replace anything. It's just passing input from other devices through itself to your TV. Unlike a stereo receiver that does the same thing with audio but actually does something to the signals, the XB1 just makes it look like Windows 8. It's essentially voice commands and a Windows 8 skin for your DVR. And it plays games.
lol alot of money. yeah it was, back in high school. i pay more than that in taxes every week
heres my todays blackcard lunch bill -
different audiences. if the xbone didnt have titanfall, i wouldnt let that door stop 100 foot near my house even if it was a 200$. since it has titanfall i can pay up to a grand for it. same with how i paid more than 500$ for a ps3 because i wanted to play uncharted. didnt bother before that.
time is the priority at this stage of my life, not value. and i dont have time to play killer instict, 20 FPS deadrising, knack and whatever the fuck console manufacturers are lining up for their trashy launch, nor do i have time to be a loyal supporter of some brand (other than apple, because apple has class, unlike ms and sony). give them software, and people will buy
plus theres the iphone 5S next month
so it was a corporate lunch? dont you just expense that anyway?
Or, it pulls in your tv content with all the media apps(Netflix, vudu, slacker, etc, etc) so its all a voice command away. And plays games.
I understand that you don't see the upside to that, and that's fine. But people seem to refuse to see that there will be folks that DO see value there.
I don't have to jack with the built in TV apps, or roku, or a separate bluray player or cable box. Its all together now.
WrenchNinja
Member
Wow, you're not called Lunchbox for nothing.lol alot of money. yeah it was, back in high school. i pay more than that in taxes every week
heres my todays blackcard lunch bill -
different audiences. if the xbone didnt have titanfall, i wouldnt let that door stop 100 foot near my house even if it was a 200$. since it has titanfall i can pay up to a grand for it. same with how i paid more than 500$ for a ps3 because i wanted to play uncharted. didnt bother before that.
time is the priority at this stage of my life, not value. and i dont have time to play killer instict, 20 FPS deadrising, knack and whatever the fuck console manufacturers are lining up for their trashy launch, nor do i have time to be a loyal supporter of some brand (other than apple, because apple has class, unlike ms and sony). give them software, and people will buy
plus theres the iphone 5S next month
fastford58
Member
lol alot of money. yeah it was, back in high school. i pay more than that in taxes every week
heres my todays blackcard lunch bill -
different audiences. if the xbone didnt have titanfall, i wouldnt let that door stop 100 foot near my house even if it was a 200$. since it has titanfall i can pay up to a grand for it. same with how i paid more than 500$ for a ps3 because i wanted to play uncharted. didnt bother before that.
time is the priority at this stage of my life, not value. and i dont have time to play killer instict, 20 FPS deadrising, knack and whatever the fuck console manufacturers are lining up for their trashy launch, nor do i have time to be a loyal supporter of some brand (other than apple, because apple has class, unlike ms and sony). give them software, and people will buy
plus theres the iphone 5S next month
Are you a wizard?