I absolutely agree. Everything is subjective, music, clothing, gaming etc. I just know I will love the XONE. It ticks all my boxes. I have my PS4 on pre-order also but like said in another thread, the XONE will get most of my gaming time at least for the first couple of years. There's simply no games that I want to play on PS4 that have been announced other than infamous and the final fantasy games.
Microsoft: "Its up to us to prove that [Xbox One is] worth $100 more [than PS4]"
- Thread starter Canis lupus
- Start date
I absolutely agree. Everything is subjective, music, clothing, gaming etc. I just know I will love the XONE. It ticks all my boxes. I have my PS4 on pre-order also but like said in another thread, the XONE will get most of my gaming time at least for the first couple of years. There's simply no games that I want to play on PS4 that have been announced other than infamous and the final fantasy games.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
1.4 games.
Still think ms needs to do a couple game pack in options in NA... come on Albert make it so.
If they do, it should be a Kinect game to give people a reason to give a damn about the $100 piece of plastic being foisted upon them.
BlastProcessing
Member
Your timeline is all out of whack. By the time the iPhone allowed 3rd party development it was $200 on contract. The iPhone didn't sell very well at $500-$600. Apple was forced to drop the price by $200 only two months after launch. Then a year later they gave up on selling unsubsidized phones and went to $200 on contract. That price drastically undercut other smartphones of the day and set the $200 subsidized smartphone standard that the US market still operates under.
The story of the iPhone proves the opposite of what you are arguing. The iPhone struggled until Apple aggressively dropped the price. It simply wasn't enough to be good, they had to be good and affordable.
$100 dollars might not seem like much to some, but it is a 25% premium over the PS4. (or you could say that the PS4 is 20% cheaper) Which is significant.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
Days ago.
No it doesn't at all. I don't give a shit how much the PS4 is. My point is that the XONE is not expensive. The PS3 launched 7 years ago and was more expensive than XONE. If people can't afford one then there's no need to slate it. Just deal with it and move on with your life.
You missed his point. He wasn't comparing machines but value add from generations... that said...
Again people are acting like it is a fact that One is not worth difference. There are many many reasons people would pay the difference an they are all based on opinion which cant be wrong or right.
They just are. People will and do find Bone compelling at that cost for reasons beyond just being a fanboy or anti_sony believe it or not
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
There isn't even a single Kinect game at PAX (to my knowledge at least, as I still haven't come across one).
So why force a pack-in if they don't even have anything to show for it?
KingSunIsFree
Banned
Or they simply like more games on another platform. Some of us just like the idea of having more Halo, Gears, Fable, Forza, etc. in addition to the multiplats that are guaranteed just like Sony fans want more Killzone, Gran Turismo, Infamous, Uncharted, and God of War. Then there are those of us who will take nothing short of having both (*raises hand).
What makes Xbox more compelling for me over a PS4 at this time is that it has some additional experiences in the near future like Crimson Dragon, Killer Instinct, Kinect Sports Rivals, Quantum Break, Project Spark, and Titanfall (yes, I know the last two are on 360/PC as well). It's probably also a safe bet we'll see Alan Wake, Crackdown, and Dance Central return in the next few years. I've become a fan of some of these IPs and I have a strong feeling I'll like the newcomers as well. Different strokes.
And I know I'll be playing it for the next 10 years, so I am shrugging off the $100 difference (just peanuts compared to how much I'll spend on the platform throughout its life). Your opinion will vary.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
Because its totally worth $100 to say "Xbox on" instead of tapping a button.
That's how carpal tunnel syndrome starts! And rabies!
CambriaRising
Member
"Stop talking about the price being too much in a thread about proving the price isn't too much. Just deal with it and move on with your life."
Bigmac1910
Member
It's not for most people at the moment, including me. MS will have to work really hard to convince people.
I bet Microsoft will love people not being able to afford $100 more, moving on with their lives and buying a PS4.
Penguins&PolarBears
Member
Do people think Kinect Sports Rivals is the only "Kinect game" because it is the only game with "Kinect" in the title? That's not very well informed.
They should really put out an infographic/post that lists everything that the Kinect is used for and every single announced X1 game that is making use of Kinect.
Kinect:
Kinect enables:
I think an Xbox One without Kinect would be a pretty lame last-gen experience. Nearly every feature of the console that I'm looking forward to is improved by Kinect. I don't know if it's enough to convince everyone, but Microsoft should be doing more to promote all of these features together.
They should really put out an infographic/post that lists everything that the Kinect is used for and every single announced X1 game that is making use of Kinect.
Kinect:
- turns on the system (voice)
- turns on the TV/receiver (IR blast)
- logs you in (video)
- starts a game or app without browsing for it (voice)
- searches for a new game or TV show to watch instantly (voice)
- dynamically tracks who's holding which controller (video)
- dynamically applies game settings by user (video)
- can see who is talking and bring up the appropriate friends list (voice & video)
- changes the channel and volume on TV/Cablebox (IR blast)
- selects menu items in games (voice)
Kinect enables:
- video commentary in Twitch and Upload Studio (video & voice)
- video chat with Skype (video & voice)
- voice/motion capture in Project Spark (video & voice)
- facial/body scanning in Kinect Sports (video)
- 6-player multiplayer in Just Dance 2014 (video)
- sound detection to alert zombies in Dead Rising 3 (voice)
- voice command control of troops in Ryse (voice)
- head tracking in Forza 5 (video)
- animal interaction in Zoo Tycoon (video)
- automatically applies your button preference in Killer Instinct (video)
- heart rate and exertion detection in fitness games (video)
- gesture control of the UI and every app (video)
I think an Xbox One without Kinect would be a pretty lame last-gen experience. Nearly every feature of the console that I'm looking forward to is improved by Kinect. I don't know if it's enough to convince everyone, but Microsoft should be doing more to promote all of these features together.
Now you are just being mean =(
SenjutsuSage
Banned
I would love for the Xbox One to be cheaper. For starters, I'd be able to buy more games in general. However, I don't exactly think that $500 for what I'm getting is somehow a bad value for my money.
Everytime somebody says nobody wants Kinect, I think they seriously underestimate just how many people are out there who do actually just want Kinect for the overall user experience and capabilities that it brings to the Xbox One, not necessarily for some supposed Kinect Killer App that may or may not come, if ever.
The way voice controls are integrated all throughout the system OS for all kinds of things (OS navigation, launching games and apps, text input, gameplay recording, television viewing), the gesture recognition, recognizing the player and signing them in automatically, recognizing which players gets which button configuration in which game, still being able to recognize who should be player 1 or 2, even if players happen to intentionally or accidentally exchange controllers, the ability for Kinect, thanks to its IR blaster, to just program itself to control specific remote controlled devices in my home.
All of these things are nothing that I necessarily need or was even asking for in a next gen console, but I'm going to love that they're present regardless, and there's quite a few fellow gamers and tech enthusiasts in general that look at an Xbox One like a must have addition to their home entertainment system. The Xbox One's price more than likely already ensures it loses the sales battle with the PS4, regardless of the games coming to the system, but if Microsoft is smart, they will keep building on and improving this kind of experience while also giving gaming the attention it rightfully deserves. This is the only way a new xbox that planned to have a new Kinect device could be done. You either go big or you go home. There was no middle ground with regards to Kinect's evolution on a next gen xbox. You were either supporting it by including it in all systems right out of the gate, or you might as well abandon the thing altogether.
Everytime somebody says nobody wants Kinect, I think they seriously underestimate just how many people are out there who do actually just want Kinect for the overall user experience and capabilities that it brings to the Xbox One, not necessarily for some supposed Kinect Killer App that may or may not come, if ever.
The way voice controls are integrated all throughout the system OS for all kinds of things (OS navigation, launching games and apps, text input, gameplay recording, television viewing), the gesture recognition, recognizing the player and signing them in automatically, recognizing which players gets which button configuration in which game, still being able to recognize who should be player 1 or 2, even if players happen to intentionally or accidentally exchange controllers, the ability for Kinect, thanks to its IR blaster, to just program itself to control specific remote controlled devices in my home.
All of these things are nothing that I necessarily need or was even asking for in a next gen console, but I'm going to love that they're present regardless, and there's quite a few fellow gamers and tech enthusiasts in general that look at an Xbox One like a must have addition to their home entertainment system. The Xbox One's price more than likely already ensures it loses the sales battle with the PS4, regardless of the games coming to the system, but if Microsoft is smart, they will keep building on and improving this kind of experience while also giving gaming the attention it rightfully deserves. This is the only way a new xbox that planned to have a new Kinect device could be done. You either go big or you go home. There was no middle ground with regards to Kinect's evolution on a next gen xbox. You were either supporting it by including it in all systems right out of the gate, or you might as well abandon the thing altogether.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
And so much of that could be done faster and with more precision using a controller/button.
But it doesn't have that "new gimmick" feel. So it's old fashioned.
That's just life isn't it. They priced their box accordingly and they will have to deal with the consequences. SONY priced the PS3 outrageously and told everyone they needed to work 2 jobs to afford it... but everyone bought it and no-one complained. SONY aren't doing too badly from the deal are they.
VGChampion
Member
Seriously. The one thing these execs need to realize is money is money. Shrugging off $100 is idiotic. I mean, if someone is working minimum wage that extra $100 is an extra 12 hours.
There was a time when I thought that it was up to the companies to prove that their products were worth the price. Sometimes it's about the games, touting specs doesn't change things ($99 Gamecube was third), touting features doesn't change things. It's up to the consumer to decide that a product is worth it, taken as a whole. It doesn't have to be the cheapest, or the highest specced. Taken as a whole, the product has to be worth it to the consumer. So nobody has to prove their product is worth something, they have to tell people about it and let the people decide if it's worth it.
Everyone bought it after it dropped to $300 and was then priced the same as the 360. Just like more people will buy the Xbox One when it drops to at least the same price as the PS4.
That's way more more palatable than just coming stating all this like fact, to give people even more reason to label as arrogance.
Mercury Land-Snake
Member
Most people bought PS4 after it hit $300-400. It sold pretty slowly at $500 and $600.
Nobody complained about the launch price? Thats hilarious.
They stripped the playstation 2 components from the unit early and had to aggressively price drop that burned through all the money made from PS1 and PS2. If that's your definition of a success story from being more expensive than your competition, not sure what to tell you.
Impeccable
Member
I understand it's opinions but not one of those Kinect enabled features is compelling in any capacity to me and doesn't sound like it's beneficial to my experience as a gamer. That's the problem Microsoft is running into.
In their first round of Kinect they gave us some motion control games and the fun Dance Central game - it wasn't enough to appease the average hardcore gamer. When approaching this new generation we were told how much better the new Kinect was and how with the improved technology it could potentially be a gamer changer. The problem is that nothing they have shown to this point has changed my view in the slightest about it and I'm not really enjoying the prospect of being force to buy Kinect when they haven't shown a compelling reason to own it.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
It's more of an underdog story, really.
killer rin
Member
If someone is working Minimum Wage, I think a Game Console would be on the last of their concerns considering a large portion of Minimum wage workers in the US struggle to make ends meet.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
So how many of you are never buying an Xbox One?
pretty done
Member
You'd be hard pressed to find people who think this is worth $100 more and an underpowered console in comparison.Do people think Kinect Sports Rivals is the only "Kinect game" because it is the only game with "Kinect" in the title? That's not very well informed.
They should really put out an infographic/post that lists everything that the Kinect is used for and every single announced X1 game that is making use of Kinect.
Kinect:
- turns on the system (voice)
- turns on the TV/receiver (IR blast)
- logs you in (video)
- starts a game or app without browsing for it (voice)
- searches for a new game or TV show to watch instantly (voice)
- dynamically tracks who's holding which controller (video)
- dynamically applies game settings by user (video)
- can see who is talking and bring up the appropriate friends list (voice & video)
- changes the channel and volume on TV/Cablebox (IR blast)
- selects menu items in games (voice)
Kinect enables:
- video commentary in Twitch and Upload Studio (video & voice)
- video chat with Skype (video & voice)
- voice/motion capture in Project Spark (video & voice)
- facial/body scanning in Kinect Sports (video)
- 6-player multiplayer in Just Dance 2014 (video)
- sound detection to alert zombies in Dead Rising 3 (voice)
- voice command control of troops in Ryse (voice)
- head tracking in Forza 5 (video)
- animal interaction in Zoo Tycoon (video)
- automatically applies your button preference in Killer Instinct (video)
- heart rate and exertion detection in fitness games (video)
- gesture control of the UI and every app (video)
I think an Xbox One without Kinect would be a pretty lame last-gen experience. Nearly every feature of the console that I'm looking forward to is improved by Kinect. I don't know if it's enough to convince everyone, but Microsoft should be doing more to promote all of these features together.
I wouldn't say never, but definitely not anytime soon or maybe even in the first half of its lifetime.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
IsntChrisL
Member
Yeah, totally. I remember everyone saying "$600? Well, I guess them's the brakes! I accept this price, peacefully."
It would be pointless to compare the two on the basis of power, because power doesn't matters
Games matter
PS2 was less powerful than the Xbox and the GC, but it outsold them by a ridiculous level because pretty much every must-play game at the time was a PS2 exclusive.
By the time GTA3 and VC made it to the Xbox GTASA was about to be released as a PS2 exclusive, and by the time that one was going to launch for Xbox the X360 was already been shown to gamers.
Games were always the make-it or break-it of every console, everything else is just fodder
Games matter
PS2 was less powerful than the Xbox and the GC, but it outsold them by a ridiculous level because pretty much every must-play game at the time was a PS2 exclusive.
By the time GTA3 and VC made it to the Xbox GTASA was about to be released as a PS2 exclusive, and by the time that one was going to launch for Xbox the X360 was already been shown to gamers.
Games were always the make-it or break-it of every console, everything else is just fodder
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
Would sell it without ever using it if given to me.
I have no interest in their games, I have no interest in where they see the future of the industry, and I have no interest in gimmicks.
That's a tough one since I'm always owning all consoles each gen. But this time I'm leaning towards not doing that this time. Even if Titanfall is as good as they say, by the time I'd be in the market for an XBO, I will have already played it on PC and it will already be available on PS4.
Also I don't really feel like paying for two subscriptions and an XBO is pretty worthless as a media device without Gold. And PS+ gives me too many bonuses to ditch it in favor of Gold.
If they ever remove Kinect after numerous times saying its an integral part of the system and will never be removed. I (as a original and xbox 360 supported) will never support MS again. They've already lost me on the PC and phone side things. Splitting the base up like that would be a tipping point for me.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
I think people are really placing way too much emphasis on the shrugging of the shoulder. There's an ass way to go about doing that in discussing this subject, and then there's a more neutral, very much non-controversial way to do so. I think we can't say one way or the other without actually seeing a video of it.
I get the point he's making, however. If you're already spending $400, and plan to also get one or more games or accessories with your purchase, then suddenly $500 doesn't seem like that big of a stretch for a person already comfortable with spending that kind of money. it doesn't somehow mean that you're inconsiderate to the significance of a $100 difference to people who are already barely managing to spend that first $400.
Somehow I don't buy that one tiny bit.
I get the point he's making, however. If you're already spending $400, and plan to also get one or more games or accessories with your purchase, then suddenly $500 doesn't seem like that big of a stretch for a person already comfortable with spending that kind of money. it doesn't somehow mean that you're inconsiderate to the significance of a $100 difference to people who are already barely managing to spend that first $400.
Would sell it without ever using it if given to me.
I have no interest in their games, I have no interest in where they see the future of the industry, and I have no interest in gimmicks.
Somehow I don't buy that one tiny bit.
To be fair, in the UK the PS3 was cheaper than the Xbone is.
It does offer these things, but the question is do people want those things for the extra cost or at all. Are the things they WANT things that they can CHOOSE to pay for on a rival system at a later date? For example, my PS3 can wake and switch my TV/Amp right now via HDMI-CEC. I had it on, and now have it off. I'm fairly sure a bunch of the stuff that Kinect 2 will do the PS4 with the Eye will do. The difference being that people get to choose whether to spend the money on it or not.
I'm not after most of those things in any way at all. So why would I pay for it.
With the Voice stuff, I don't see any reason why the PS4 couldn't do the same shit with the PS Eye or even a headset.
They already have removed it from being required to operate the Xbox One. Selling a SKU without Kinect just seems to be the next logical move.
Phire Phox
Banned
Um, there are far more uses for Kinect than turning the system on with your voice.
Penguins&PolarBears
Member
I don't think that's correct, but let's go through the list.
Kinect:
- turns on the system (voice)
Maybe, if you have only one remote and the remote is nearby.
- turns on the TV/receiver (IR blast)
Definitely not, unless you already own a Harmony universal remote.
- logs you in (video)
Maybe, depends upon how fast the profile detection is and how many people in your home use the Xbox and have profiles.
- starts a game or app without browsing for it (voice)
Definitely not. Jumping to the games tab or apps tab and scrolling through a list of items is not faster than saying "Xbox play Killer Instinct" or "Xbox start YouTube."
- searches for a new game or TV show to watch instantly (voice)
Definitely not. Typing in search terms on a game controller is incredibly slow.
- dynamically tracks who's holding which controller (video)
Completely impossible without Kinect.
- dynamically applies game settings by user (video)
Impossible without Kinect.
- can see who is talking and bring up the appropriate friends list (voice & video)
Yes, faster with a controller button, but means users don't have to care anymore about which controller they are using.
- changes the channel and volume on TV/Cablebox (IR blast)
Not talking about voice control here. Even if you are using a controller the Xbox is now controlling your cablebox and TV.
- selects menu items in games (voice)
Depends on the amount of menu items. Scrolling through a big list can take longer than a voice command of big menus.
All of the following except the last one (control of UI) and Ryse voice commands would be impossible without a Kinect:
Kinect enables:
- video commentary in Twitch and Upload Studio (video & voice)
- video chat with Skype (video & voice)
- voice/motion capture in Project Spark (video & voice)
- facial/body scanning in Kinect Sports (video)
- 6-player multiplayer in Just Dance 2014 (video)
- sound detection to alert zombies in Dead Rising 3 (voice)
- voice command control of troops in Ryse (voice)
- head tracking in Forza 5 (video)
- animal interaction in Zoo Tycoon (video)
- automatically applies your button preference in Killer Instinct (video)
- heart rate and exertion detection in fitness games (video)
- gesture control of the UI and every app (video)
Oh yes, over time the Xbox and PlayStation came to be called the "HD twins." I remember in the PS2 era, the PS2 was full of Japanese games, the Xbox had more of the PC Western games, and the Gamecube had...Nintendo, and a smattering of Japanese games too
I need to see how the "twins'" libraries differentiate from each other. (And since I built a PC, how they differentiate from PCs.) For some reason I've gone "Nintendo/Xbox" over time but with the Xbox One being so similar to the PS4 and being more expensive despite the hardware power (but it does have Kinect...and I'm totally serious about this, if it can do some cool stuff that might be a thing to look at), it's going to take some time to see the library of exclusives fleshed out before I decide on Xbox One.fastford58
Member
So you argue your own subjective points, but won't take into consideration actual objective points.
The Xone is expensive when a more powerful and more open system is launching beside it for $100 less. That's not subjective. That's a fucking fact.
Oh...and just realized you made the poor people argument. LOL.
EventHorizon
Member
The problem for Microsoft is that the math doesn't add up like they want. The Xbox One is first and foremost a gaming device. That is simply because nobody is going to pay $500 for Skype or a universal remote. The XB1 has to prove it is as good or better a gaming device than the PS4 before anything else will be considered.
There is also an inherent mismatch in the fact that Microsoft is trying to sell mass market features at an enthusiast price. The people most likely impressed by those features will be turned off by the cost. MS would have been better off selling the Kinect as a seperate standalone device for $150 and marketed it as a supercharged Roku or Apple TV.
At the other end of the spectrum, anyone willing to pay $500 dollars just to get the Kinect features probably already owns a DVR. Yet the XB1 will be horrible at controlling it. You won't be able to search for prerecorded shows, and can you imagine trying to skip a commercial by saying "skip, skip, skip, skip, skip, skip, back, play". You'd still have to use the DVR's remote making the XB1 useless for the people most willing to pay $500 in order to voice control their TV.
In the end the extra features you get for the $100 doesn't hide the fact that the most important feature, playing games, is inferior to its competitor the PS4.
There is also an inherent mismatch in the fact that Microsoft is trying to sell mass market features at an enthusiast price. The people most likely impressed by those features will be turned off by the cost. MS would have been better off selling the Kinect as a seperate standalone device for $150 and marketed it as a supercharged Roku or Apple TV.
At the other end of the spectrum, anyone willing to pay $500 dollars just to get the Kinect features probably already owns a DVR. Yet the XB1 will be horrible at controlling it. You won't be able to search for prerecorded shows, and can you imagine trying to skip a commercial by saying "skip, skip, skip, skip, skip, skip, back, play". You'd still have to use the DVR's remote making the XB1 useless for the people most willing to pay $500 in order to voice control their TV.
In the end the extra features you get for the $100 doesn't hide the fact that the most important feature, playing games, is inferior to its competitor the PS4.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Bookmarking this thread to come back to it in 2017.
They sold units. People may have complained on online forums but they shifted consoles in the stores. The complainers still bought the consoles. My entire point is that I think MS will have the same story. When it comes to retail they will shift units even though there are people complaining. The price is higher than the PS3 but it is still affordable and lower than the PS3 launch price, even though the hardware is 10 times more powerful.