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[Durante]

“Xbox One is weaker and it’s a pain to use its ESRAM,”

Hey, that's what I said! And mostly everyone who can read specs. But now that an anonymous developer said it as well we should have another 100 page thread.

Anyway, I think the difference in the OP is slightly overstated.
If a game is 1080p30 on PS4, it should achieve ~ 900p30 or 1080p20 on XB1

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

We've seen it running at 60fps already. And how are you such an expert on what the Xbox One can and cant do? :/

Anyways, the PS4 is a fair bit more powerful, I think we know this already. Why is it still being discussed?

Because we keep having Penello and Microsoft PR flip-flopping between "specs don't matter" and "we have great specs, we invented directx and are a CPU force"?

 

[Perkel]

LOL

Back on topic the power difference is definitely there and pretty obvious but the example given (30fps @1080p versus 20fps @900p) is showing a BIG gap...didn't expect such big differences to be honest.

This holiday season will be very interesting.

anyone who knows something about PC tech could see it from miles away. We are talking here about 1,2Tf to nearly 2Tf hardware where that 2Tf hardware is easier to code for and possibily have even better real performance thanks to unified fast ram

 

[Finalizer]

No but I do expect devs to show us media of the games and both versions. If you gotta go through some sherlock holmes DF stuff to see differences then whats the point other than making sure fanboys can sleep well at night?

What incentive do publishers have to readily display a potential visual gap between versions of their own product? The last message they want to send is "By the way, if you get the Xbone version, prepare for shitty framerates, lower resolution, etc..." Especially if that's the current issue they're trying to resolve at this point in development. And all-in-all, they just want people across all platforms to be hyped for their products, so they'll want folks focused on the best visual representation of their games - that is, PC versions running on high-end hardware.

They'd much rather that only fanboys be the ones to ever really discover the difference. Better that than to readily display it to the entire audience themselves, from their perspective.

 

[Nicktendo86]

No it wasn't. Check your facts. Cover was leaked just before or at the same time as ONE of the 180s, not all of them. You can't just change your entire magazine cover on a dime...

The cover says August and Edge usually release about 2 months before the cover date for some reason (I think, been a while since I've picked Edge up) so was probaby out June.

 

[madmackem]

Why? Because they're writing positive articles about the more powerful console? Jesus

haha its unreal aint it, edge owe no one anything and should write what they feel and what they are being told. Lots moan at the games media for sitting on the fence and not telling us how they really feel or how it really is. Heres edge doing just that and all of a sudden its an agenda etc etc.

 

[SolidSnakex]

The PS3 was supposed to be significantly more powerful than the 360, wasn't it? I can't recall the console wars numbers game. Was it kind of like this? PS3 whatever% faster?

No, the gap was never this big. And the power gap ignored the fact that the PS3 was extremely difficult to work with, which meant that a developer had to spend a lot of time with the console in order to figure out what it could really do. That's why it ended up being something you mostly saw from exclusives rather than multiplatform games. That difficulty barrier is no longer there with the PS4. If anything it's been reported that it's easier to work with than the Xbox One. And on top of that it's quite a bit more powerful.

 

[Toski]

Why can't MS write a decent graphics driver? Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. They CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against.

I have to think bad management/leadership. MS one strength is in software and it seems they can't even leverage that against Sony.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Why do people scream BIAS the second something happens that disagrees with their view of the way thing should be

It's just childish.

 

[stryke]

No it wasn't. Check your facts. Cover was leaked just before or at the same time as ONE of the 180s, not all of them. You can't just change your entire magazine cover on a dime...

Have you actually read the article?

 

[DenogginizerOS]

I bet EA has snipped the balls of most of their PS4 games in order to not hurt their bestie's feelings.

 

[Seanspeed]

LOL



Yeah the example given (30fps@1080p versus 20fps@900p) pretty much means a PS2-XBOX difference in multiplatform games and maybe an even bigger difference. Didn't expect such a big gap to be honest.

This holiday season will be interesting.

That example was without optimization, mind you.

There is no dispute that the PS4 is more powerful. Everybody knows it and I think a lot of people simply like to keep bringing it up whenever there's an article on it because they enjoy rubbing it in. But really, the only interesting thing about this power difference now to see is what it translates to in practice, particularly with how 3rd party devs deal with multiplatform titles.

 

[Into]

Because the most powerful console always has the best games and outsells the competition....Oh wait that never happens.

It has happened twice, NES and SNES

They were consoles made by Nintendo

 

[twobear]

Is the ongoing Xbone trainwreck starting to feel a bit like this to anyone else

Has a console generation ever felt so over before it started? I thought the PS2 vs. Dreamcast was bad at the time but this is a whole new level.

 

[goomba]

It has happened twice, NES and SNES

They were consoles made by Nintendo

what? sms was clearly more powerful than nes and people stil argue about snes and mega drive (genesis). mega drive had a much faster cpu and last i heard they sold about the same globally.

 

[TheMink]

In this case. It will.

I don't ever remember the more powerful console being cheaper. The PS4 just has too much going for it.

Indeed, this is the major difference from before.

 

[Mandoric]

Many people were saying this after Sony's smoke and mirrors at TGS 2005.

I feel like a broken record, if the difference was truly that large, Sony would be shouting it from the rooftops and the first-party launch games, rushed or not, would blow the X1 first-party launch games out of the water.

That is just not the case so far.

Sony's ecosystem continued to say it for quite some time after. FF13 launch in, what, -2010- with a superior PS3 version by devs who would have had to retool for either PS3 or X360 and chose the one with the higher nominal peak?

X360 won on multiplat perf in pretty much all other cases because while Sony's ecosystem was learning PS3, they brought in a -completely new- ecosystem that could hit the ground running with processes and expertise already built on PC.

For this generational shift, on the other hand, there's no huge army of AAA publishers sitting in Outer Elbonia that know eSRAM like the back of their hand just ready to make laughingstocks of EA and Activision as they struggle to learn how to program what's basically a standard PC.

 

[Perkel]

“Xbox One is weaker and it’s a pain to use its ESRAM,”

Hey, that's what I said!

Anyway, I think the difference in the OP is slightly overstated.
If a game is 1080p30 on PS4, it should achieve ~ 900p30 or 1080p20 on XB1

If console would be 20-30 % yes but we are talking here more or less about 50% and more efficient hardware.

Playing modern game at 1080p@30FPS on 1,2 Tf hardware is hard task. Playing current games like Skyrim should not be a problem.

I have personally HD6870 which is 2Tf+ and q9300@3Ghz. and i can't play Skyrim with everything on max at 1080p trying to hit 30FPS.

Modern games will be much more demanding than skyrim.

 

[3rdamention]

Firstly where did i state which will sell more? I merely pointed out that history has never favored the most powerful console yet so many here are acting as if ps4's power is it's most important factor.

Secondly they are not equal in feature set, one comes with kinect.

No, that is really not true. It all comes down to price. Many on here will tell you that, and it always comes back to price. That will be the important factor. You cannot deny the price. You can deny the power claims, the mathemagics, the FUD, but you cannot deny the price, its black and white. Its clear as day.

And it has already been pointed out that "history" has never had the more powerful console release at nearly the same time AND be cheaper, especially $100 cheaper.

 

[Seanspeed]

Because we keep having Penello and Microsoft PR flip-flopping between "specs don't matter" and "we have great specs, we invented directx and are a CPU force"?

Well I don't think they've said anything like 'specs don't matter' in a long time. And I think only that one instance.

Anyways, its PR speak. We know the PS4 is more powerful. Does it really need rubbing in at absolutely every opportunity?

 

[Shake Appeal]

Sucks that next-gen gaming is being held back by this weak console.

At this rate, it won't be.

 

[JaggedSac]

Anyone who still thinks the Bone is close to as powerful as the Pas4 is deluding themselves. That being said, both of these boxes are little babies to PCs. And that is before they are even released.

 

[Katana_Strikes]

Why do people scream BIAS the second something happens that disagrees with their view of the way thing should be

It's just childish.

Yeah, that Edge thread was a wash with comments like "Never reading Edge again", "Glad I cancelled my sub" etc. Funny thing is as soon as Edge comes along at some point and says something positive they'll be "resubbing" or thinking Edge is awesome again in a heartbeat.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Unsurprising, lines up with virtually everything we've heard.



Xbone buyers better hope that next-gen games use lots of procedural generation or raytracing via parametric surfaces!

I like how the article goes in depth about the scenarios where the Xbox One will have a technical advantage (however rare they may be), lining up with what that dev on B3D stated (CPU heavy tasks). But nooo EDGE are paid by Sony and untrustworthy!... All they're doing is publishing statements from developers.

 

[Argyle]

PS4's memory reads being so much faster could be something to do with MS's unsubstantiated claim of 204 GB/s 'peak theoretical bandwidth' of its 32mb ESRAM being, well, false.

The only source for this claim, which has been more or less accepted for some strange reason, is Richard Leadbetter iirc.

The read speed is still going to be half that, that number is when you try to read and write at the same time.

For the record I believe it's a real thing but it's probably like 204GB/s*




* with some, perhaps many caveats making it unusable in an actual game

 

[something fishy]

The PS4 is $299 - the hundred dollars is the superior GPU and GDDR5 /s



This was pre-policy-rollback. Although I hate Edge, they do recognise things which are bad for the industry.

if they really did then they'd cancel themselves.

 

[Curufinwe]

Speccing down for "political reasons" isn't realistic, because it puts multi-plat devs at a distinct disadvantage to single-plat/first-parties on both sides.

And it didn't happen this gen. Remember how bad Assassin's Creed 1 ran on the PS3?

 

[Guymelef]

No it wasn't. Check your facts. Cover was leaked just before or at the same time as ONE of the 180s, not all of them. You can't just change your entire magazine cover on a dime...

That's not true.

 

[travisbickle]

I bet EA has snipped the balls of most of their PS4 games in order to not hurt their bestie's feelings.

FIFA was one of the rumoured games to differ between platforms.

 

[Jeux]

Is the ongoing Xbone trainwreck starting to feel a bit like this to anyone else

Has a console generation ever felt so over before it started? I thought the PS2 vs. Dreamcast was bad at the time but this is a whole new level.

People called the previous generation at E305, TGS 05, and all the way up until the PS3 had a relatively soft launch..

 

[goomba]

No, that is really not true. It all comes down to price. Many on here will tell you that, and it always comes back to price. That will be the important factor. You cannot deny the price. You can deny the power claims, the mathemagics, the FUD, but you cannot deny the price, its black and white. Its clear as day.

And it has already been pointed out that "history" has never had the more powerful console release at nearly the same time AND be cheaper, especially $100 cheaper.

if it comes down to price . wii u has next gen on lock then ? lol

it comes down to games, just as it always has.

 

[Seanspeed]

Is the ongoing Xbone trainwreck starting to feel a bit like this to anyone else

Has a console generation ever felt so over before it started? I thought the PS2 vs. Dreamcast was bad at the time but this is a whole new level.

How is it an 'ongoing' trainwreck? What did they do this time? What has changed? Its simply that people keep bringing this up over and over and over as if its even a dispute.

 

[Number45]

No. It would require extra work from devs to downgrade ps4 builds to match xbone.

Lazy dev = ps4 games superior
Hardworking dev = ps4/xbone games equal

That implies that a "hardworking dev" wouldn't bother to optimise the PS4 version.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Is the ongoing Xbone trainwreck starting to feel a bit like this to anyone else

Has a console generation ever felt so over before it started? I thought the PS2 vs. Dreamcast was bad at the time but this is a whole new level.

I don't know, the Xbox brand has a lot of fans so I think it will do well at first, Don't know how much of an indication this is but on UK Amazon the PS4 is at number 5 on the pre order page and Xbone is 14, would love some actual pre order figures.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Well I don't think they've said anything like 'specs don't matter' in a long time. And I think only that one instance.

Anyways, its PR speak. We know the PS4 is more powerful. Does it really need rubbing in at absolutely every opportunity?

These recent articles pretty much exist specifically because of what MS has been saying. It's caused sites to start looking into their claims and this is what's happening. In other words, articles like this will stop once MS stops.

 

[Jeux]

So now we have to deal with an entire hardware generation of Sony fanboys lamenting the fact that MS is gimping their multiplats....

Great! And I thought they were bad this generation.

 

[Uno Venova]

Well I don't think they've said anything like 'specs don't matter' in a long time. And I think only that one instance.

Anyways, its PR speak. We know the PS4 is more powerful. Does it really need rubbing in at absolutely every opportunity?

What rubbing in though? A new EDGE article, that's bound to be talked about.

 

[Durante]

If console would be 20-30 % yes but we are talking here more or less about 50% and more efficient hardware.

After clock speeds it's around 45%, going from 20 to 30 FPS is 50% and from 900p to 1080p is 44%.

Both at the same time would be over 100%. I don't think so.

 

[Speedhoven]

This console generation is sure going to be intresting. As if which console is more powerfull.. sure, the ps4, but to what extent and how it will matters is the intresting question. An answer that cannot bet settled with stupid forumdebates.

Just wait and see

 

[Into]

what? sms was clearly more powerful than nes and people stil argue about snes and mega drive (genesis). mega drive had a much faster cpu and last i heard they sold about the same globally.

Nothing on SMS looks as good as Shatterhand, Bucky o Hare and most late NES games

And tons of video comparisons have been made between multiplats and exclusives for SNES and Genesis, and SNES almost always wins, look at Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Doom

Dont start this specs talk because you said :

"the proof is in the pudding" - You

So there you go, the proof is certainly in the pudding

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

No, the gap was never this big. And the power gap ignored the fact that the PS3 was extremely difficult to work with, which meant that a developer had to spend a lot of time with the console in order to figure out what it could really do. That's why it ended up being something you mostly saw from exclusives rather than multiplatform games. That difficulty barrier is no longer there with the PS4. If anything it's been reported that it's easier to work with than the Xbox One. And on top of that it's quite a bit more powerful.

Well put. I'm finally getting the picture that MS is in really bad shape for this gen. If the disparity is indeed this great, I don't see how they can keep up.

 

[hwy_61]

Is the ongoing Xbone trainwreck starting to feel a bit like this to anyone else

Has a console generation ever felt so over before it started? I thought the PS2 vs. Dreamcast was bad at the time but this is a whole new level.

That's a little premature.

 

[DieH@rd]

Other than stirring up fanboy wars, those comments mean very little to be applied as some kind of general measurement or reference. For example: Ubisoft's game, The Crew, ran @ 10fps on PS4, before optimization, and even then, the process didn't sound to be a cakewalk like people like to believe. With all the games targeting 30fps, I'm sure such horrible pre-optimized performamce is quite commom on PS4(as with any system).

With that kind of post, you are definetley stirring up fanboys. DF said that The Crew PS4 porting was done with few people in 3-4 months. Getting 10fps on PS4 with that kind of development is a fucking miracle.

 

[IcyEyes]

I just noticed it's only the guys from MS that continue to say the X1 matches the Ps4 in terms of power.

I mean, I've not read yet (nor heard) any Devs confirming those statements.

Anyway, the X1 is set to be a console with Kinect and TV as part of the "X1 experience", so even if less powerful this doesn't mean it's not an interesting console for some people.

Because we keep having Penello and Microsoft PR flip-flopping between "specs don't matter" and "we have great specs, we invented directx and are a CPU force"?

This!

 

[Steroyd]

If you haven't caught on to what I'm saying yet, I'll explain it a bit more. I don't have an issue with any developers. If this is what developers are actually saying, then it's what they're actually saying. However, I'm saying that Edge practically bet their entire publication in a very public and unashamed way on promoting the Playstation 4 over the Xbox One. After that display, twisting information to suit that agenda, picking and choosing what to report from what not to report, or even outright dishonesty isn't something that I would exactly put past them.

I'll accept what developers say and wait to see for myself, but I won't pretend that Edge doesn't have a very clear agenda, either. I've already purchased a PS4, so I have no beef with the system, but Edge? Yea... that's all I'll say on the matter, though.

No. The headline, was a headline grabber nothing more (hell the thread about that issue blew up something big just because of the cover).

The actual article was stating facts on the issue, and pretty much a regurgatation of what was posted on GAF about the issue in regards to their policies, their policy changes and lack of vision.

 

[qa_engineer]

Because the most powerful console always has the best games and outsells the competition....Oh wait that never happens.

Tired old argument. You failed to mention that the more powerful console is $100 Cheaper, and is backed by world wide studios.

 

[cripterion]

I'm sure jumping around in front of the TV, making use of Kinnect,looking a complete prick will be ample compensation for XO users, knowing that in order to pay for that piece of junk, meant MS engineers had to put in a cheap, shitty GPU & RAM combination...

Yikes. These threads really bring out the worst in people uh?

 

[M°°nblade]

One said they would gimp the PS4 version for political reasons, the other said political reasons wouldn't stop them putting out a better PS4 game so long as it was an easy tweak.

Why would any publisher want to ruffle the feathers of the manufacturer who looks to be on his way to dominating the next generation of consoles?

I see no way to minimise this news:

- Politics: if anything, the political balance will be shifted towards Sony, not MS
- There's no reason why developers will devote more time to optimise their Xbone versions than they will to optimise their PS4 versions which are expected to sell better
- Unoptimised PS4 game > unoptimised Xbone game
- Optimised PS4 game still > optimised Xbone game

 

[NeoUltima]

Research costs are, of course, factored into the retail price.

No.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

Is the ongoing Xbone trainwreck starting to feel a bit like this to anyone else

Has a console generation ever felt so over before it started? I thought the PS2 vs. Dreamcast was bad at the time but this is a whole new level.

Lol really? The X1 presales are tracking at twice what the 360 was doing before it launched. Of course it's not going to match PS4's launch sales, but it's carving a healthy chunk of the market for itself, especially now that Nintendo is out of the race this generation.