Fighting Games Weekly | Sept 16-22 | EVO does a 360 and walks away

I just cannot agree with the idea of 'less content so players will not be scared' or any other reason, personally.
It's one thing if you sacrifice polish for the sake of it, but that is not the case with Tekken most definitely.
Maybe start a bit smaller and doing periodic releases a la Tekken Revolution?
 
i'm on the opposite side of the spectrum. while i would keep some characters, no one is iconic enough to avoid the cut. one of the reasons why i love SF3 and why SF4 was a step back.

I think we're talking more about saving the brand more than anything. SFIV saved the Street Fighter brand, SFIII almost killed it, even tho it's a great game
 
Fuck no on Paul being retired.

Wang fills the "old Chinese guy" quota of a fighting game.

Kazuya is too iconic to Tekken now unfortunately, he is the top 2 main character of the game. It would be like taking out Ken from the next SF... it makes sense from a game play point of view but a ton of people are attached to the character.

The rest of the characters I mentioned serve a niche or represent a geographical location. Only characters I have a problem with are characters like Alisa, Dr.B and Roger who are just wacky for the sake of being wacky. Kuma more than fills the wacky quota of the game.


Sorry Baek gotta go. TKD is TKD... we already have our representative.

And this wasn't even the toughest choice I had to make... I even took out Anna Williams, Armor King, one of the Jins and Kunimitsu.

I dont mind taking him out, just keep Hwoarang as is. Just remove Baek.
 
Yea I don't want another Tekken 4 either... that's why I said 40 is cap not 20 (T4 had even less).

I wonder if we will ever get uneven stages again in Tekken... probably not.
 
I think we're talking more about saving the brand more than anything. SFIV saved the Street Fighter brand, SFIII almost killed it, even tho it's a great game

but here's the difference: SF4 saved the brand by bringing back the old school characters poeple missed.

Tekken has had essentially the same base roster since T3 (that's 17 or 16 years) and it's been on a clear decline (sales, popularity, you mention it). maybe a new batch of characters for a new generation is exactly the shot in the arm it needs.

as for Lars... i dunno. he didn't exactly bring people in and pros play him cause he's top tier. i'd argue he's expendable. same thing with Bob. Alisa coild stick around for the pervs, but she's also expendable. anyone introduced in 6 is, honestly.

Yea I don't want another Tekken 4 either... that's why I said 40 is cap not 20 (T4 had even less).

I wonder if we will ever get uneven stages again in Tekken... probably not.

the objective would be bring it closer to 3 than 4.
 
Paul, yoshimitsu, heihachi and Nina are Tekken to me. They always need to return. Aren't they the only characters that are in every main tekken game? Marshall was replaced by forest in tekken 3, and the kings and kumas were technically different entities.

But yeah, I would prefer another time lapse. The tekken 5 and on roster has been too safe. Just bring everyone back for TTT3..
 
I honestly think Tekken 5 did it the best. It's the best Tekken since Tekken 3. The bloat started to come by the time Tekken 6: BR was coming.

In any case I would not want to be Harada right now. Tough calls are going to be made on the series going forward.
 
as for Lars... i dunno. he didn't exactly bring people in and pros play him cause he's top tier. i'd argue he's expendable. same thing with Bob.

Meanwhile in Japan.....

jigoku_charadata.jpg
 
I just cannot agree with the idea of 'less content so players will not be scared' or any other reason, personally.
It's one thing if you sacrifice polish for the sake of it, but that is not the case with Tekken most definitely.
Maybe start a bit smaller and doing periodic releases a la Tekken Revolution?

Not many people outside our competitive circle think of characters as "content." They lose track after 20 and would rather have extra stuff like story mode.
 
Not many people in outside our competitive circle think of characters as "content." They lose track after 20 and would rather have extra stuff like story mode.
It's still content when Skullgirls and KI get shit for having as many as they do, and at the end of the day the number of characters is still the most important bullet point on the back of the box, maybe alongside online play. I don't see how the conception changes depending on the demographic, if anything, the competitive circle cares less about the number of characters when you have this cult Skullgirls following and people judge by mechanics first.
 
I wonder how the reaction to Soul Calibur 5 was taken at Namco. They did something similar, trying to pare down the roster and introduce some new characters -- and it went over like a lead fart with their core playerbase. I don't remember any of the new replacements being liked more than the original characters, and if you were a fan of one of the characters that was removed, then you were basically told to get fucked.

On the other side, even if you reduced Tekken to 40 characters, it's probably too many. Having to learn that many match-ups (with the inherent dumb gimmick each character in Tekken has) is going to scare people off. Cutting someone like Tiger or P.Jack is not going to do much of anything to reduce the complexity of the game (since the number of unique styles in the game is still the same). Honestly, I think the mechanics need more work than anything. There's no need for something like 10-strings to exist now other than to piss of players who don't know them. What does having stuff like big, slow lows do other than serve as a strict reflexes check? Why does the default movement have to be so goddamn bad?

I think the decline in the series, from Namco's perception, is relatively recent -- remember, the series didn't really take off in arcades in Japan and Korea until T5:DR (where it finally passed VF5 in Japan in terms of coindrop rates and total playerbase). This kept up with 6 and 6BR -- the series has only really dropped off with TTT2.

I'll be honest: with Tekken, Namco probably really is better off just riding the series into the sunset -- or at least waiting several years before doing a new game. They are losing players due to attrition, but I doubt anything they do would bring in enough new players to make up for it (never mind accelerating the attrition of the playerbase if you screw up and piss your loyal players off). If they want a reboot, they should make a completely new IP and start fresh with that. It's a risk (oh noes, not the risk) but it's exactly what ArcSys did with BlazBlue and it worked out wonderfully for them. In the best case, you now have two completely distinct fanbases. In the worst case... you have another bomba on your hands (which Japanese developers seems pretty good at producing recently). It really comes down to the budget, which is hard for a FG to deal with as they tend to be some of the "leaner" games to develop, so cutting the budget is going to hurt.
 
I hope the next Street Fighter has more original than returning characters. That way, we can cry, bitch and complain about where our old favorites are, then 10 years later, we can cry, bitch and complain about where those original characters are, and complete the cycle.

It's a necessary sacrifice for progression.
 
It's a character usage chart for MASTERCUP JIGOKU 1 3on3 tournament which was held in Japan back in July this year. The entrants was capped at 45 teams and the chart shows which character got used the most in the tournament.

You can see the teamlist here: http://mastercupofficial.com/teamlist/j1climax

Character usage among top players and overall popularity of said characters do not correlate.
Bridget's the most popular Guilty Gear character, and he rarely shows up outside of Ruu and the like.
 
They removed all the characters then replaced them with the same characters but with different designs. SC5 makes zero sense to me.

a lot of these companies are at the point where if any char from a prequel is removed, it's the end of the world.
 
Is Kunimitsu/Angel/Unknown not in the arcade version?

Also, why isn't Zafina more popular? ;_;
 
It's a character usage chart for MASTERCUP JIGOKU 1 3on3 tournament which was held in Japan back in July this year. The entrants was capped at 45 teams and the chart shows which character got used the most in the tournament.

You can see the teamlist here: http://mastercupofficial.com/teamlist/j1climax
This is not a valid list because it's just popularity among top players which skewers towards top tiers/better characters.

This is like me saying Doom is the most popular character in MVC3 when we all know he gets picked because he increases your team's chance of winning. Or Vergil is more popular than Dante.
 
why so snippy? are you trying to say it was successful?
I don't like hearing about this sort of talk without concrete data. Especially not in the FGC where people latch on to the fakest rumors and the stuff spreads like wildfire. It's how the FGC ends up with so many "dead" scenes and games. It did well enough that Autumn hasn't given up on the IP, MarvelousAQL decided to fund a PC port and LZG managed to put together one of the most impressive kickstarters regardless of genre.

It's not a runaway success that will be accepted by everyone, but I like to think that this is pretty much the ideal situation and quality most niche fighters (not made by ASW) reach for.
 
This is not a valid list because it's just popularity among top players which skewers towards top tiers/better characters.

This is like me saying Doom is the most popular character in MVC3 when we all know he gets picked because he increases your team's chance of winning. Or Vergil is more popular than Dante.

Heihachi, Nina, Bruce, and Devil Jin are top tier, though, and way better than Asuka or Jaycee as far as I know. Lars isn't even actually S-tier in this game either, right? Bruce and the Mishimas are better I thought.

EDIT: doesn't Namco keep track of character usage data/cards since TTT2 has the power of the cloud?
 
Heihachi, Nina, Bruce, and Devil Jin are top tier, though, and way better than Asuka or Jaycee as far as I know. Lars isn't even actually S-tier in this game either, right? Bruce and the Mishimas are better I thought.
I don't know the tier list of TTT2 but that is such a small sample and it's a sample of just top players in a single tournament for a single game in a single region.

And being top tier isn't the only factor, ease of play is a factor too that's why you will see less Mishimas in some areas and why Lars is so high.

Like you can't convince me that Lars and Bob are more popular characters than Jin and Law overall or that they are more "requested" characters.
 
Skullgirls sold 50K in 10 days of initial release in the US alone.
The Japanese sold their lifetime expected sales in 2-3 weeks of release, sticking to the top of the Japan PSN releases for several weeks straight.
Not sure on the PC version sales.
There is also an announced arcade release of Skullgirls coming later this year or next year.

Team games don't need huge rosters, MvC2 is the best one. You just need to have a lot of varied playstyles you can achieve with the team combinations. MSP plays different to MSS plays different to SSCommando plays different to SSCyke plays different to SCableCommando. You have strong rushdown, keepaway, zoning, trap and hybrid teams all within those viable 10 or so characters.
 
Skullgirls sold 50K in 10 days of initial release in the US alone.
The Japanese sold their lifetime expected sales in 2-3 weeks of release, sticking to the top of the Japan PSN releases for several weeks straight.
Not sure on the PC version sales.
There is also an announced arcade release of Skullgirls coming later this year or next year.

Team games don't need huge rosters, MvC2 is the best one. You just need to have a lot of varied playstyles you can achieve with the team combinations. MSP plays different to MSS plays different to SSCommando plays different to SSCyke plays different to SCableCommando. You have strong rushdown, keepaway, zoning, trap and hybrid teams all within those viable 10 or so characters.
Skullgirls gives you the option to play alone, so comparing the "need" for lots of characters in a game that doesn't "need" you to use multiple characters is sorta iffy and doesn't prove much. Skullgirls can be parable to P4:A as well.
 
I don't know the tier list of TTT2 but that is such a small sample and it's a sample of just top players in a single tournament for a single game in a single region.

And being top tier isn't the only factor, ease of play is a factor too that's why you will see less Mishimas in some areas and why Lars is so high.

Like you can't convince me that Lars and Bob are more popular characters than Jin and Law overall or that they are more "requested" characters.

Japan really loves their Bob though. I hate that stupid character.
 
I don't like hearing about this sort of talk without concrete data. Especially not in the FGC where people latch on to the fakest rumors and the stuff spreads like wildfire. It's how the FGC ends up with so many "dead" scenes and games. It did well enough that Autumn hasn't given up on the IP, MarvelousAQL decided to fund a PC port and LZG managed to put together one of the most impressive kickstarters regardless of genre.

It's not a runaway success that will be accepted by everyone, but I like to think that this is pretty much the ideal situation and quality most niche fighters (not made by ASW) reach for.

ASW is its own beast- kinda between poverty and the AAA guys. They're the Paradox Interactive of the FGC.

Skullgirls is something that other companies couldn't replicate, because the history and business model behind the whole thing over the years is just insane and not something that could be reproduced, largely due to the artwork/design.

I wonder how many FGC-types like myself didn't like the game initially, but kept giving it chances due to the art until it grew on me. (and right now it's the only fighter I'm playing)

SG is a game geared for long-tail success with the new content, I just don't know if it can have long-term FGC success, because folks just don't show up for SG tournies even at majors. TFC was two guys on a laptop, while even Arcana could draw a 16-person bracket (but NC is an Arcana hotbed)

I do think a significant portion of SG fandom honestly doesn't like FG's all that much, and LZ would be insane to not make or license a SG game that isn't a fighter. Make a shooter or a dating sim.

The best thing that could happen to SG right now is a bunch of third-party games in that universe that keep the fandom fed. Annie or Minette games that were free would be downloaded pretty hard by the fanbase, and keep interest up enough for LZ to make a FG sequel down the road.

Skullgirls may be in a unique situation where they may be the one indie FG that isn't dependent on the FGC for success, they can reach outside of that base in a way similar to Arc. You won't see non-FGC folks picking up Chaos Code or even KOF.
 
I already know Nina will be there but Anna is an absolutely critical character for the next Tekken. Grown way too fond of the moveset to be missing out on it in the future.

Anyway, anyone looking for new Tekken music should listen to the Revolution tracks.

Moonlit Wilderness
Winter Palace
Eternal Paradise - make sure to reach 0:33
Tulip Festival

Lol I'll never understand why people hate Lars. I like him, or at least his fighting style.

Him and Bob are both annoying to fight against. They both have bad character designs as well but I don't even care about that. Any and every other character in Tekken, I can tolerate. Well, Miharu is annoying too but that's for different reasons. Whoever was her voice actor needs to not to do voice acting again. YAAAAAAAY
 
Lol I'll never understand why people hate Lars. I like him, or at least his fighting style.

He looks like a dumbass anime reject and comes across as pandering to the Naruto fans. And while Tekken obviously isn't devoid of those kinds of influences, Lars is just gross. For someone like me, he comes across as some shit a 13-year old would design.

The fact that he was introduced along with Alisa only makes it worse.
 
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