US Federal Government Shutdown | Shutdown Shutdown, Debt Ceiling Raised

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Jonm1010 said:
So let's say all the right dominos fall, Boehner folds, republicans come off looking bad and upcoming elections continue to look in the democrats favor. Could we realistically see the democrats win the house and pick up enough senate sits to win a 60 vote majority?
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would be nice but probably not a reality with the way districts are spread now. Getting to that 60 would be great though and then just bust up the filibuster or at least fix it.
 
Jonm1010 said:
So let's say all the right dominos fall, Boehner folds, republicans come off looking bad and upcoming elections continue to look in the democrats favor. Could we realistically see the democrats win the house and pick up enough senate sits to win a 60 vote majority?
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No. The average american voters have the memory span of a gnat. Plus Gerrymandeeering~~~~ *jazz hands*
 
So at this point the government is still shut down because Boehner is afraid he'll lose his leadership position....Do I have that right?
 
Jonm1010 said:
So let's say all the right dominos fall, Boehner folds, republicans come off looking bad and upcoming elections continue to look in the democrats favor. Could we realistically see the democrats win the house and pick up enough senate sits to win a 60 vote majority?
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unfortunately no.. by the time elections roll around we will be talking about Joe the plumber or 47% etc etc.. not to mention the districts are all fucked up.
 
ToxicAdam said:
True, but I don't think haste is always the best thing when trying to form a compelling, persuasive argument. You can quickly back yourself into a corner you can't get out of. Which happens quite a bit in politics.
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That's a good point. I wonder if this whole shutdown thing could've been avoided if the GOP hadn't boxed themselves in with their own messaging.
 
Goodlife said:
May have already been covered in this thread, but what with Obama being president and all that, can he not just say "fcuk you lot" and pass this budget thing anyway?
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I hope you're not American.

Budgetary manners are the domain of the legislative branch (Congress). You should know this.
 
did Fox news even show Obama's speech today? I went to get a quick look on what they had to say and they were talking about something completely different.(was watching the speech on MSNBC)
 
The U.S. government remains shut down, thanks to House Republicans’ refusal to fund the government without defunding the Affordable Care Act. Meanwhile, 401 national parks across the country are closed to tourists and vacationers, provoking “pretty livid” responses.
But the fact that the government and parks are closed hasn’t stopped Congress from holding hearings, including one Thursday in the House Natural Resources Committee on a bill that would force a fire sale of 3.3 million acres of public lands.

The Disposal of Excess Federal Lands Act of 2013 (H.R. 2657) from Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT) would mandate that public lands Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah, and Wyoming to be sold off to the highest bidder as a way of reducing the deficit. The areas to be sold are based on an outdated report from 1997, although the bill directs the Secretary of the Interior to “update” that report.

However, evidence shows not only that voters oppose selling off public lands, but that they are incredibly important economically. This is especially true for the state of Utah, which is losing $4.4 million every day because its five national parks are shutdown. Tourists and visitors to these parks are being turned away, and reports of the potentially devastating economic impacts are already coming in.

The manager of an lodge outside of Bryce Canyon National Park said “This such an important time for us … It’s going to kill us if this drags on”
Moab retailer Canyon Voyages Adventure Company has gotten “tons and tons of calls from visitors who have scheduled trips with us or aren’t sure if they can go” because Canyonlands and Arches National Parks are closed.

And The Deseret News reports that “Zion [National Park] expects to turn away 10,000 visitors a day during the government-imposed closure, costing $50,000 in daily revenue.”
Some of these disgruntled tourists have gone so far as to go on record blaming Republicans for the shutdown. For example, Mark Boeckman, a visitor to Zion National Park said earlier this week:
I’m a Republican and I am not happy with what they are doing. I’m of the opinion that the far right of the Republican Party has taken this too far. The Obamacare thing is something they voted for… it is what is. Live by it.

With Americans’ frustration growing at the shutdown, House Republicans are trying to distract from their closure of national parks by proposing piecemeal legislation to keep just national parks (but not monuments, refuges, or Forest Service campgrounds) open. They also took the opportunity on Wednesday to vilify the National Park Service for providing safe access for Honor Flight participants to the World War II Memorial, despite the fact that the agency “‘bent over backwards’ to make sure veterans were not inconvenienced or disappointed” according to the co-founder of the Honor Flight Network.

And of course, while national parks are closed to the public, they remain open to oil and gas drilling.
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Wow. Just...I don't even.
 
Vestal said:
Who the fuck is this Harry Reid. Did we switch him with a guy who actually has balls?? Were was this Reid when we were talking about filibuster??
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Maybe he's just ate enough shit from Republicans to realize that the medical device tax means nothing to them. It's just another stepping stone toward the goal of dismantling Obamacare and running the government as a minority.
 
So what happens if the US government defaults? Does it basically mean that we're declaring we're bankrupt? Which would basically mean that no one would trust us for a long time to pay our bills and it would mean that the US dollar would be worthless, right?
 
Pfft $4.4 million a day. Do they really need that money in Utah? Come on, it's not the end of the world. Be reasonable Obama.
 
The GOP is extremely effective at pushing messaging to the folks in their echo chamber, but I don't think they're consistently effective at influencing popular opinion overall.

Yes, they've poisoned the ACA quite well, but then you have stuff like Benghazi.
 
BertramCooper said:
The GOP is extremely effective at pushing messaging to the folks in their echo chamber, but I don't think they're consistently effective at influencing popular opinion overall.

Yes, they've poisoned the ACA quite well, but then you have stuff like Benghazi.
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There has been more security sent to to guard the WW2 memorial than sent to Benghazi.
 
 
AranhaHunter said:
So what happens if the US government defaults? Does it basically mean that we're declaring we're bankrupt? Which would basically mean that no one would trust us for a long time to pay our bills and it would mean that the US dollar would be worthless, right?
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Some people will be sent to sleep with the fishes before it gets that far.
 
AranhaHunter said:
So what happens if the US government defaults? Does it basically mean that we're declaring we're bankrupt? Which would basically mean that no one would trust us for a long time to pay our bills and it would mean that the US dollar would be worthless, right?
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Not exactly. A default is not the same as bankruptcy, and it doesn't mean the US dollar is worthless.

If the US gov't fails to pay off bondholders as agreed (which will happen on 10/17 IIRC, unless the debt ceiling is raised in time), that is considered a default. There are no legal consequences to defaulting on sovereign debt, since there's no court that can hold the US accountable for it. What would happen, though, is that investors would lose faith in the previously immovable US treasury (seriously, US treasuries are generally considered to be a "risk-free" asset), and so interest rates on US treasuries would spike up. US treasuries and treasury rates are tied to basically everything due to their "risk-free" status, so this would have some nasty knock-on consequences the world over. No one really knows what exactly would happen, but the consequences could potentially be similar to what happened back in 07-08 with the credit crunch. This would be... bad.
 
Brolic Gaoler said:
So you'd prefer the president to have complete control? Our government is designed to prevent that.
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that's not the only option. Splitting a government's power into different branches is good and essential for any democracy.

But what the republicans are doing now shouldn't be within the powers of a minority party. It's nuts.
 
Uh oh, nobody at the CDC...
CDC001.jpg
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Maninthemirror said:
Today is not a good day to be a Republican

http://gawker.com/gop-congressman-makes-park-ranger-apologize-for-shutdow-144057786



http://m.newyorker.com/online/blogs...bbornly-refusing-to-end-crisis-i-created.html


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/todd-rokita-carol-costello-cnn-beautiful_n_4036782.html

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2...rs-into-republicans-over-government-shutdown/



http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/10/03/2727031/greg-walden-tea-party-shutdown/

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewi...y-angry-gop-colleagues-in-closed-door-meeting


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...the-hastert-rule-it-never-really-existed.html

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/fox-news-reporter-rebukes-bill-oreillys-obamacare-criticism
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Except those are mostly left-leaning publications anyway (not that I think any of them are wrong). I could also say today is a bad day to be a Democrat.

http://therightscoop.com/mark-levin-to-obama-you-lay-one-hand-on-ww2-vets-and-ill-bring-half-a-million-people-to-that-memorial/(This first one is my favorite.)

http://weaselzippers.us/2013/10/02/obama-vows-to-veto-gop-spending-bill-that-restores-funding-for-veterans-benefits/ (Best comment on this one? "Bill may have been bi-partisan, obama is bi-sexual... so there!")

http://www.libertynews.com/2013/10/barack-hussein-obama-decides-welfare-clerks-are-more-essential-to-national-security-than-military-reservists/ (Barry Hussein Obummer!)
 
You guys probably know this already, but Fox News' unilateral angle for all this (beyond the same false balance shenanigans found on all cable news right now) is to take the stance that the shutdown is simply not that big a deal. After all, do we really NEED a federal government in the first place?
UlFRJfD.png

canwedowithoutit_20131003_132157.jpg
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The problem with this approach is that while it makes for handy headlines right now, they become increasing out-of-touch the longer the shutdown lasts with Republicans trying to push through "OH BUT WAIT ACTUALLY THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT" bills in the meantime.

On the other hand the shorter it lasts the shorter it lasts (meaning this flight of lunatic fancy has been abandoned).

A bit of a rare misfire on Fox's part in my opinion.
 
Hahahaha, Mark Takano just began screaming at the Republicans in the House "WHAT DO THE REPUBLICANS WANT IN THIS SHUTDOWN?!?!?!? CAUSE I WANNA KNOW!!!"
 
Punchy4486 said:
Except those are mostly left-leaning publications anyway (not that I think any of them are wrong). I could also say today is a bad day to be a Democrat.

http://therightscoop.com/mark-levin-to-obama-you-lay-one-hand-on-ww2-vets-and-ill-bring-half-a-million-people-to-that-memorial/

http://weaselzippers.us/2013/10/02/obama-vows-to-veto-gop-spending-bill-that-restores-funding-for-veterans-benefits/

http://www.libertynews.com/2013/10/barack-hussein-obama-decides-welfare-clerks-are-more-essential-to-national-security-than-military-reservists/
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Well the difference is the left leaning blogs as you say have video and qoutes from republicans which is new updates. The right wing is ongoing talking points. One is about saying Obama is refusing to accept hostages for negotiations while the other is not
 
Punchy4486 said:
Except those are mostly left-leaning publications anyway (not that I think any of them are wrong). I could also say today is a bad day to be a Democrat.

http://therightscoop.com/mark-levin-to-obama-you-lay-one-hand-on-ww2-vets-and-ill-bring-half-a-million-people-to-that-memorial/(This first one is my favorite.)

http://weaselzippers.us/2013/10/02/obama-vows-to-veto-gop-spending-bill-that-restores-funding-for-veterans-benefits/ (Best comment on this one? "Bill may have been bi-partisan, obama is bi-sexual... so there!")

http://www.libertynews.com/2013/10/barack-hussein-obama-decides-welfare-clerks-are-more-essential-to-national-security-than-military-reservists/ (Barry Hussein OBummer!)
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I don't see how any of those make Dems look bad.
 
Maninthemirror said:
Today is not a good day to be a Republican

http://gawker.com/gop-congressman-makes-park-ranger-apologize-for-shutdow-1440577868



http://m.newyorker.com/online/blogs...bbornly-refusing-to-end-crisis-i-created.html


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/todd-rokita-carol-costello-cnn-beautiful_n_4036782.html

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2...rs-into-republicans-over-government-shutdown/



http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/10/03/2727031/greg-walden-tea-party-shutdown/

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewi...y-angry-gop-colleagues-in-closed-door-meeting


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...the-hastert-rule-it-never-really-existed.html

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/fox-news-reporter-rebukes-bill-oreillys-obamacare-criticism
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(from the gawker comments section)

ku-medium.gif


This is amazing and highly appropriate.

WyndhamPrice said:
Oh fuck

https://twitter.com/robertcostaNRO/status/385832212924362752
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edit: oh boy
 
Maninthemirror said:
Well the difference is the left leaning blogs as you say have video and qoutes from republicans which is new updates. The right wing is ongoing talking points. One is about saying Obama is refusing to accept hostages for negotiations while the other is not
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Oh I know. I'm just making the (obvious) point that the people that are against the Dems on this issue are receiving their own special take on these issues, feeding their own gut feelings with their own version of the "facts". It's like when someone rewrites a classic novel from the villain's perspective. "They weren't bad, just misunderstood. From another perspective the good guys are pretty evil!"
 
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