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[Sanky Panky]

As a far left liberal this drives me crazy. I find a ton of his positions just as odious as those of McCain/Romney... because they're the same. I think he's probably a better choice than those two, but if his far right ideology can get painted as "leftism" and this is the best we're gonna get, this country is on a road to ruin.

It's the illusion of choice for the American people. No matter what tool is in the WH, they answer to the same masters.

 

[Trey]

As a far left liberal this drives me crazy. I find a ton of his positions just as odious as those of McCain/Romney... because they're the same. I think he's probably a better choice than those two, but if his far right ideology can get painted as "leftism" and this is the best we're gonna get, this country is on a road to ruin.

What road would we be on if he were as far left as you?

 

[KHarvey16]

As a far left liberal this drives me crazy. I find a ton of his positions just as odious as those of McCain/Romney... because they're the same. I think he's probably a better choice than those two, but if his far right ideology can get painted as "leftism" and this is the best we're gonna get, this country is on a road to ruin.

A ton of his policies are the same as McCain and Romney? How many in a "ton"?

 

[Lambtron]

What road would we be on if he were as far left as you?

It's hard to say, but maybe we wouldn't be murdering innocent people with robot planes and spying on the citizenry and maybe we'd have a decent healthcare system being implemented. I find it hard to believe it could be any worse than things are now.

 

[besada]

If Congress refuses to fund a budget affecting a law, isn't that their right (as lunatic as it may seem)? Those reps vote to pass funding for budgets based on the will of their constituents ... it's why they were elected right?

It is their right to fund or not fund. The issue is that they can't manage to pass a vote to defund the ACA, because they share that responsibility with the Senate, who isn't going to go along with their crazy. After failing multiple times to defund the ACA, they've now taken an entirely different issue (their inability to pass an actual budget) and wedged in demands for "compromise" on the ACA. They are required, by their oaths, to pass a budget, which they continue to fail to do. So now they're hijacking the process and using it to threaten the country if someone doesn't give them something that allows them to save face.

They're welcome to vote as often as they like to defund the ACA. What they aren't welcome to do is ignore their primary job requirements and punish the country because the country doesn't agree with their minority opinion.

Edit: If you'd like to see these folks in their natural habitat, might I suggest Freerepublic.com or Redstate.com?

 

[Hawkian]

As a far left liberal this drives me crazy. I find a ton of his positions just as odious as those of McCain/Romney... because they're the same. I think he's probably a better choice than those two, but if his far right ideology can get painted as "leftism" and this is the best we're gonna get, this country is on a road to ruin.

Are you from another country? I'd be a lot more sympathetic to this claim if you didn't have much experience with the American political spectrum. I don't think I could identify a single "far right" position under Obama's belt save for his odious about-face on civil rights abuses. His policies are more or less in line with a moderate, socially progressive early 90s republican, which more or less describes the modern "moderate Democrat" across the board. I don't know what you meant about "the best we're gonna get" (and Obama is too moderate for my tastes as well) but he was certainly and clearly the better of the two candidates during the elections in which he appeared on the ballot, and society will indeed lurch slowly toward becoming more progressive and more welcoming of true liberal candidates on the field over time.

There's just a bit of a hijacking going on at the moment.

It's the illusion of choice for the American people. No matter what tool is in the WH, they answer to the same masters.

Laughably oversimplified and destructive.

 

[DyTonic]

I honestly don't even care anymore, we have no power anyways.

 

[Blader]

I honestly don't even care anymore, we have no power anyways.

The former feeds the latter.

 

[Hawkian]

Yeah that's about the most self-sustaining political position to ever exist.

 

[Aylinato]

I honestly don't even care anymore, we have no power anyways.

No, you can't let less than 6000 people(the nut jobs who are supporting this tea partly agenda) to destroy our country. Start caring, call your rep, volunteer in whatever interests you, and vote. For Christ's sake.

 

[Particle Physicist]

oh don't worry, most of Gaf does. If most of Gaf runs a country, here's what would happen:

1) free immigration for everyone and anyone. No questions ask. Come one come all, come as many as you need. don't worry about overloading the infrastructure and social services.

2) everyone makes $30 an hour, and the top 10% should be taxed 80% of their wealth.

3) every government secret would be revealed. every intelligence. EVERYTHING. there's no such thing as sensitive issue.

of course i exaggerate, but Gaf is definitely far far left leaning than what some of them would like to admit

Wow, taking a cue from the current GOP? I know you exaggerated, but you basically made immigration reform, raise in minimum wage and government accountability to be far far left leaning ideals? Wow...

 

[JetBlackPanda]

I honestly don't even care anymore, we have no power anyways.

Gee that's new.. welcome to I don't believe on what I was raised anymore because its fucking crazy but I can't support the other side because I was raised to hate them.

this attitude is the worst.

No, you can't let less than 6000 people(the nut jobs who are supporting this tea partly agenda) to destroy our country. Start caring, call your rep, volunteer in whatever interests you, and vote. For Christ's sake.

listen to this man.

 

[Liberty4all]

It is their right to fund or not fund. The issue is that they can't manage to pass a vote to defund the ACA, because they share that responsibility with the Senate, who isn't going to go along with their crazy. After failing multiple times to defund the ACA, they've now taken an entirely different issue (their inability to pass an actual budget) and wedged in demands for "compromise" on the ACA. They are required, by their oaths, to pass a budget, which they continue to fail to do. So now they're hijacking the process and using it to threaten the country if someone doesn't give them something that allows them to save face.

They're welcome to vote as often as they like to defund the ACA. What they aren't welcome to do is ignore their primary job requirements and punish the country because the country doesn't agree with their minority opinion.

Edit: If you'd like to see these folks in their natural habitat, might I suggest Freerepublic.com or Redstate.com?

Thanks I'll check those sites out.

 

[AmyS]

Seems to me that Repubs and Dems are more & more just the same party.

They're BOTH shit.

 

[reilo]

Seems to me that Repubs and Dems are more & more just the same party.

They're BOTH shit.

Oh dear

 

[Hawkian]

Seems to me that Repubs and Dems are more & more just the same party.

They're BOTH shit.

if trolling you may have my points.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

Oh dear

It's not even worth responding to troll posts, just ignore it.

 

[besada]

Oh dear

It's like a Junior rite of passage in political threads at this point.

 

[Manmademan]

Seems to me that Repubs and Dems are more & more just the same party.

They're BOTH shit.

What is it that drives a poster to run headlong into a thread, proclaiming their ignorance and apathy as loud as they possibly can?

 

[BLACKLAC]

Sour patch of Junior's lately I noticed.

 

[Cyan]

Seems to me that Repubs and Dems are more & more just the same party.

They're BOTH shit.

That's all very well, but you should probably consider doing some reading on the causes of the current crises.

Republicans and Democrats may be the same along the dimensions you care most about, but there still remain many dimensions along which they are very different.

 

[Sanky Panky]

Laughably oversimplified and destructive.

They keep us fighting over social human rights issues that should not be in question in the 21st century (abortion, gay rights, civil rights, etc), while following a tried and true agenda of serving global corporations.

Obama is the biggest tool yet, with NSA supplying information to corporations, threatening was in Syria to appease the Gulf partners, and wanting to bypass Congress to hammer through the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement (essentially the loss of national sovereinghty to corporations).

Obama is a dream come true for the global financiers, and the stage is set for a fiscal shock to happen thanks to capitalizing on the tea party lunatics.

 

[Aylinato]

^the hell did I just read? Some tinfoil hat stuff does not belong in a rational debate about how republicans are threatening the entire globe with their small minority within their party.

Seems to me that Repubs and Dems are more & more just the same party.

They're BOTH shit.

Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about. The statement could not be more wrong. Maybe if bilbo said it...

 

[besada]

Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about. The statement could not be more wrong. Maybe if bilbo said it...

Bulbo would make it funny, at least.

 

[kehs]

Seems to me that Repubs and Dems are more & more just the same party.

They're BOTH shit.

only the presidents are

 

[InvaderZimmer]

Oh, good call. I'd use the oil profits to fund alternative energy R&D, and I'd call the department that did it Solyndra.


Pretty sure we'd see a lot of claims about people not loving their country.

With all this awful showmanship with the current shutdown, I've been pondering what would've happened if the Democrats had pulled this stunt to stop funding the war. That could've been pretty enjoyable.

You advocate seizing people's assets and giving them to the state? Seriously? Positions like these are probably why no conservatives are chiming in this thread.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

I voted against a Tea Party nutjob last spring. I did my part for America (he still won anyway though)

One thing these people have in common is they are old and white and probably won't be around in 20 years.

 

[slit]

You advocate seizing people's assets and giving them to the state? Seriously? Positions like these are probably why no conservatives are chiming in this thread.

That's not why. It's kind of hard to defend extortion.

 

[besada]

You advocate seizing people's assets and giving them to the state? Seriously? Positions like these are probably why no conservatives are chiming in this thread.

Why, do differing opinions regarding governance cause them to burst into flames?

 

[makingmusic476]

You advocate seizing people's assets and giving them to the state? Seriously? Positions like these are probably why no conservatives are chiming in this thread.

Are you referring to nationalizing the oil industry?

What right do a small handful of individuals have to make exhorbitant profits by taking this country's natural resources and selling them on global markets?

Aren't conservatives typically for energy independence?

 

[Liberty4all]

So I found this article at PA which outlines the Republican fears (The article authors interviewed various focus groups including Evangelicals, Tea Party members and Moderate Republicans):

http://www.democracycorps.com/attachments/article/954/dcor rpp fg memo 100313 final.pdf

Republicans shutdown the government to defund or delay Obamacare. This goes to the heart of Republican base thinking about the essential political battle. They think they face a victorious Democratic Party that is intent on expanding government to increase dependency and therefore electoral support. It starts with food stamps and unemployment benefits; expands further if you legalize the illegals; but insuring the uninsured dramatically grows those dependent on government. They believe this is an electoral strategy—not just a political ideology or economic philosophy. If Obamacare happens, the Republican Party may be lost, in their view.

And while few explicitly talk about Obama in racial terms, the base supporters are very conscious of being white in a country with growing minorities. Their party is losing to a Democratic Party of big government whose goal is to expand programs that mainly benefit minorities. Race remains very much alive in the politics of the Republican Party.

Unifying all Republicans is their revulsion toward big government. That revulsion involves three distinct strands of thinking – two of which take the Republican Party into realms of preoccupation that threaten to marginalize the party.

The first strand is big programs, spending, and regulations that undermine business. That is pretty straightforward and is hardly surprising. That is probably the dominant strand among the moderates who long for a fiscally conservative and focused Republican Party. Their first associations with government are: “big”; “waste”; “Regulations. Inefficient”; “Red tape, that’s all.” [Raleigh] They think big programs go hand-in-hand with special interest groups and lobbyists who buy off politicians and push up spending. [Colorado Springs] Their objections pointedly do not put increased dependency center-stage. The moderates are very opposed to Obamacare because it is big spending; it won’t work; it will hurt business and employment. Their first associations are: “Stupidity”; “Job killer”;
“And I say debt, D-E-B-T”; “Job killer.” [Raleigh]

The second strand is a concern with intrusive government that invades their privacy, diminishes their rights and freedoms, and threatens the Constitution. Those worries are dominant among the Tea Party, though not exclusively. In both Tea Party groups, they immediately associate the word government with the phrase “too big.” This is followed by “out of control,” “wasteful,” “corrupt,” “Obama,” and “Democrats.”

And the third is the most important and elicits the most passions among Evangelicals and Tea Party Republicans – that big government is meant to create rights and dependency and electoral support from mostly minorities who will reward the Democratic Party with their votes.

The Democratic Party exists to create programs and dependency – the food stamp hammock, entitlements, the 47 percent. And on the horizon—comprehensive immigration reform and Obamacare. Citizenship for 12 million illegals and tens of million getting free health care is
the end of the road.

These participants are very conscious of being white and valuing communities that are more likeminded; they freely describe these programs as meant to benefit minorities. This is about a Democratic Party expanding dependency among African Americans and Latinos, with electoral intent. That is why Obama and the Democrats are prevailing nationally and why the future of the Republic is so at risk.

Moderates view the Tea Party and Fox News as part of the problem – “extreme” and
“a bunch of crap” respectively. They are turned off by Fox and at best amused by the Tea
Party.

Some say they like the small government ideas the Tea Party was putting forward several years ago, but say they have been turned off by the Tea Party’s leaders, who are “unelectable,” “idiots,” “extreme,” and:

A little wacky. (Moderate woman, Raleigh)
Extreme. (Moderate woman, Raleigh)
It's kind of, the Tea Party is being just as closed minded as the other group. (Moderate
woman, Raleigh)
Idiots. (Moderate man, Colorado)
Just something doesn’t smell right. (Moderate man, Colorado)

As one man in Colorado said, he liked the Tea Party’s initial “rallying point” of “small government,” but wonders what it has turned into.
The people they bring out or they put forward, you sometimes have a sense of how they actually got there. You know, maybe…their fundamentals good but…have them promote fundamentals. (Moderate man, Colorado)

And on Fox News, many moderates outright reject it as a news channel: “It tells about as much truth as like Jerry Springer does now.” (Moderate man, Colorado)

Moderates are not so sure about their place in the current Republican Party. They worry about the ability of Republicans in Congress to make government work. They believe the party is stuck, not forward-looking, and representative of old ideas. They worry about the Republican Party’s right turn on social and environmental issues—which makes it difficult, especially for young moderates—to view the Republican Party as a modern party.

There's lots more. Wow really eye opening.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Sense... slowly... prevailing...

 

[Riki]

Seems to me that Repubs and Dems are more & more just the same party.

They're BOTH shit.

Would people please stop this shit? If anything,this whole thing just proves that there is a very clear difference between Democrats and Republicans.

 

[Aylinato]

So I found this article at PA which outlines the Republican fears (The article authors interviewed various focus groups including Evangelicals, Tea Party members and Moderate Republicans):

http://www.democracycorps.com/attachments/article/954/dcor rpp fg memo 100313 final.pdf





There's lots more. Wow really eye opening.

Yea, eye rolling is exactly how I'd describe how far out of touch the extremist republican sects have become. Btw there are no more moderate republicans, they have been driven out of the party in the last 3 years, and with the shutdown they lost any slightly not as far-right conservative who would be described as Eisenhower republicans (those who will find ways to fund government programs they want to create)


They are out of touch with reality and have lost the concept that government isn't the problem. Government is the solution, as if destroying the federal government is their goal then essentially they have become the problem they scream so hard against.

 

[Thai]

"Whether it's today, or a number of weeks from now, or a number of months from now, or a number of years from now, it will always be Congress's responsibility to raise our debt ceiling so that the United States can pay the bills that Congress has incurred," he told reporters during his daily briefing.

"It will always be, as long as he's president, President Obama's position that that responsibility is not negotiable. That there's not a game of trading for political priorities or agenda items that Republicans have not been able to achieve through legislation or the ballot box."

Where did these come from?

 

[Wilsongt]

Seems to me that Repubs and Dems are more & more just the same party.

They're BOTH shit.

Totally new argument. Thank you. Will read again.

 

[Aylinato]

Where did these come from?

It's laughable to me that republicans create a huge mess with the federal government, and then proceed to say that their problems they created, intentionally, are actually faults within the federal government and not their ideals. They have warped reality in their heads and simply have lost any critical thinking past "how can we ruin this country more?"

 

[Tex117]

So I found this article at PA which outlines the Republican fears (The article authors interviewed various focus groups including Evangelicals, Tea Party members and Moderate Republicans):

http://www.democracycorps.com/attachments/article/954/dcor rpp fg memo 100313 final.pdf







There's lots more. Wow really eye opening.

What is so eye opening about it?

 

[Liberty4all]

What is so eye opening about it?

I honestly didn't think they were that crazy =(

I only skim through US politics though, I didn't believe it was this bad. The report reads like a horror story.

Surely they aren't all like that?

 

[Protein]

What are YOU doing to help fight the good fight GAF? We can complain and watch the Beverly Hillbillies burn the country down, but is anyone actually do their part by trying to inform people?

 

[Diablos]

MORGAN STANLEY ECONOMIST: If We Breach The Debt Ceiling, Jack Lew Must Decide Which

JOE WEISENTHAL OCT. 7, 2013, 4:25 AM 30,972 34

What happens if we breach the debt ceiling?

According to Morgan Stanley top economist Vincent Reinhart, the question becomes straightforward: Which law must the Secretary of the Treasury break?

In a column for DealBook, which is adapted from one of his notes to clients, he explains the choice facing Treasury Secretary Jack Lew:

If the Treasury is unwilling to stretch the definition of extraordinary measures, on the day that the Federal Reserve predicts that the Treasury will run out of cash in its account and the Treasury is bound by the debt ceiling, it suspends all payments and awaits instructions from the Treasury. As a result, the government’s principal economic officials will face the prospect of violating one of these three laws:

1. The Second Liberty Bond Act of 1917 that establishes the debt ceiling;

2. The Federal Reserve Act that prohibits the Fed from lending directly to the Treasury; or,

3. The 14th Amendment of the Constitution that holds that the debt of the United States government, lawfully issued, will not be questioned.

They have to break a law. At the end of the day, officials will avoid violating the Constitution by indicating that they have been given inconsistent instructions and are obeying the one with the most important precedent.

Basically in Reinhart's formulation, Lew will opt to break the debt ceiling law, citing constitutional obligations to continue servicing the debt.

And then of course we enter into level never-neverland with respect to the budget.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/morg...cide-which-law-to-break-2013-10#ixzz2h4Oyy4vZ

There's still hope for the constitutional option.

 

[Aylinato]

I honestly didn't think they were that crazy =(

I only skim through US politics though, I didn't believe it was this bad. The report reads like a horror story.

Surely they aren't all like that?

There are no moderate republicans. There are barely any fiscal conservatives left, and Wall Street has little to no influence on the Republican Party. They have gone full-on extremist because of their creation of highly extremist districts.

 

[Noisy Ninj4]

I honestly didn't think they were that crazy =(

I only skim through US politics though, I didn't believe it was this bad. The report reads like a horror story.

Surely they aren't all like that?

Not every last one of them, but fairly close. Might be enough sane ones to have a chance to avoid a default.

 

[Sirpopopop]

What are YOU doing to help fight the good fight GAF? We can complain and watch the Beverly Hillbillies burn the country down, but is anyone actually do their part by trying to inform people?

I tried.

I failed.

The Tea Party is strong. It's very hard to argue with folks who see things in black & white terms. Then you have independents who like to rest on easy platitudes like "BURN BOTH PARTIES."

 

[kehs]

What are YOU doing to help fight the good fight GAF? We can complain and watch the Beverly Hillbillies burn the country down, but is anyone actually do their part by trying to inform people?

I try my best when I come across insane things like Obama wants to hurt the economy, but then it usually just breaks down into socilcommimarxism. =/

 

[Epsilon-delta]

I honestly didn't think they were that crazy =(

I only skim through US politics though, I didn't believe it was this bad. The report reads like a horror story.

Surely they aren't all like that?

We've been telling you throughout this whole thread and it took you 20 pages to come to the same conclusion.

 

[theprodigy]

It's like a Junior rite of passage in political threads at this point.

Sour patch of Junior's lately I noticed.

hey, I'm not like that!

Spoiler

oh wait, gotta fill the crazy quota
THAT DAMN OBUMMER AND HIS SOCIALISM

 

[besada]

I honestly didn't think they were that crazy =(

I only skim through US politics though, I didn't believe it was this bad. The report reads like a horror story.

Surely they aren't all like that?

You begin to understand why so many people here treat the Tea Party with contempt. This is a party that believes taxation is theft, that the President is a Muslim, and that he's indoctrinating children into some sort of Hitlerjugend.

I've been reading FreeRepublic, one of the most influential conservative sites on the net, for more than two decades, and they've just gotten crazier and crazier. From accusing Clinton of multiple murders, to claiming that Obama is a Marxist plant. How does one have a reasonable conversation with that sort of crazy?

 

[Diablos]

I tried.

I failed.

The Tea Party is strong. It's very hard to argue with folks who see things in black & white terms, and like to rest on easy platitudes like "BURN BOTH PARTIES."

No one failed! +1.7 million Democratic votes for Congressmen/women were flushed down the toilet in 2012 despite a decisive Obama victory. The GOP Gerrymandering allowed a bunch of lily white reps to overshadow Democratic districts and that is what made us "lose".

 

[maquiladora]

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/morg...cide-which-law-to-break-2013-10#ixzz2h4Oyy4vZ

There's still hope for the constitutional option.

It won't come to that. Republicans are suffering bad optics already due to the shutdown, and thats something that they can somewhat brush off, but the impact from a default would be a whole new level, it would be political suicide.