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Xboxone Resolutiongate (Eurogamer)
- Thread starter madmackem
- Start date
I've never said there is!
ipukespiders
Member
As a side note, while 960x540 doesn't result in a lot of pixels for detail, it does scale evenly (exactly 2x) to 1920x1080.
Would this result in a nicer image (all other effects being equal) than a slightly higher resolution like, say, 1040x600 being scaled to 1920x1080?
It's a simple case of oversharpening. You can do that with any picture you have and see for yourself. It's the same thing. If I decide to jack up the contrast and sharpness on my TV it doesn't mean my TV all of sudden is upscaling better. This is not a good thing. It may look passable in still screenshots but it looks horrible in motion.
Green Yoshi
Member
880 * 720 is like 1280 * 1080 an anamorphic resolution. At 1280 * 1080 every vertically second "column" must be doubled to get to 1920. At 832 * 624 both directions in the scaling are unfavorable and the 832 can be handled worse than the 880. On the other hand, 720p can be scaled to 1080p relatively well . In pretty much all upscaling algorithms, such conditions behave much cheaper. And because of this scaling from 832 * 624 can be much more problematic despite the minor difference on paper. That can really damper the calculating of the intermediate pixels.
HawksWinStanley
Member
Honestly with as blurry as the textures are in the PS4 version I can almost tolerate the trade off of horrible jaggies in the XB1 version. Did anyone come out and explain why the textures are that bad? That dude's hair is just unforgivable.
eddfromtheriver
Banned
I can tolerate slightly blurry textures. Jaggies however stick out like a sore thumb.
Ploid 3.0
Member
It was motion blur, a graphical effect not in the xbox one version apparently along with Ambient Occlusion and maybe more things.
Think DICE said they will be in the final version so all will be blurry! =P
DC1
Member
40!
Ploid 3.0
Member
You don't really want those crushed blacks. Looking at the footage from the not DF videos the xbox don't have that crushed black thing going on that people seemed to like.
That's crazy. Game journalists... amazing.
That's crazy. Game journalists... amazing.
Liabe Brave
Member
This statement is true, but the conclusion usually drawn from it is far shakier. On the one hand, the simple meaning "When scaling, PS3 games use software methods more often than hardware," is clearly accurate: Beyond3D shows 71 retail titles software scaling, and 21 hardware scaling.
On the other hand, the inference most people draw, "When scaling, PS3 games use software scaling more often than 360", has a lot less evidence going for it. Yes, the Xenos scaler could go in both directions at once, rather than only horizontally like the RSX. But for whatever reasons this ability wasn't always used. You yourself pointed out that Call of Duty was in software, and the Beyond3D resource also calls out Halo 3, Ridge Racer 6, Soul Calibur IV, Tomb Raider: Legend, and Virtua Fighter 5. And their list says "e.g." and ends with an ellipsis, so isn't exhaustive.
Given all that, I'm not sure the received opinion that "360 used hardware scaling much more often than PS3" is actually based on much evidence. Unless there's a more detailed breakdown somewhere I don't know about, that "conclusion" seems more like a guess.
sharath_kumar
Neo Member
Thats why I never visit any gaming press. Only NeoGaf. Believe.
This exactly. Sell the box!!
Your example is great. They admit their faults, their competitors faults and boths strengths all while being inflammatory.
@Brad Grenz
I agree with you about the agenda of the media "sources" about Sony, considering the accuracy lately of our GAF insiders. How can the media be so wrong yet GAF insiders have been extremely accurate on BOTH companies next gen plans?
A little suspicous imo.
Truespeed
Member
I don't get why DICE would use software scaling. It doesn't make sense why they would waste computation power and time on scaling via software when the hardware gives it to your for free, is faster, more efficient and probably does a better job at it. Has it been confirmed that it's being software upscaled to 1080 or is this just conjecture?
andromeduck
Member
Hey look, it's rendered at 2p and upscaled to 1080p which means it can be called 1080p because your TV screen is not going to stretch it!
Look at all that detail!
much colour
much sharp
plagiarize
Banned
It's conjecture, but there are reasons to do it. for example, Alan Wake does on it 360 so it can render the HUD at 720p and show it's pre rendered cutscenes in full 720p.
Part of the speculation is based on the PC version of BF4 having a slider inside the game that lets you tweak the internal rendering resolution, which is then scaled via software before having the HUD drawn on. so like you can set it to 80% of your chosen resolution.
So it's definitely a feature of the Frostbite 3 engine that could be being used.
you never know, they might even be applying some of the effects at higher resolutions than 720p... not that I've seen any evidence of such a thing.
Don't forget, software scaling can yield better results than hardware scaling (because neither is inherently better). IF the game is stuck at 720p because of memory issues, maybe they have plenty of overhead to apply what they think is a better scaling technique.
All speculation of course.
mysteriousmage09
Member
Just caught up with this thread. MS and the gaming media have no shame.
To be fair I kinda feel the concept of shame is dead in our society so expecting corporations to still hold any concept of a moral compass or shame is kind of farcical.
andromeduck
Member
yeah if you use it as a litmus test of journalistic (hell even personal) integrity - which you should - it's amazing how many fail
do me a favor....the jacked up DF images are fine...
- go to the picture of the "hair" compare PC/PS4/Xbone
now answer this question
- which of the three images looks out of place?
this becomes a common theme when you actually look at the comparison images...all of the textures across all 3 versions are identical...what you're seeing is that the Xbone is overcompensating for its lack of resolution with a sharpening filter...it seems to bring out "more detail" in textures...but it also adds all sorts of artifacts, halos, pixel crawling, and aliasing to the images...
the PC and PS4 have much natural looking images...the PC benefitting from the added resolution of being 1080p vs 900p...
ive seen others say that there is some motion blur coming through in the PS4 shots as well that is not present in the Xbone version
Hey look, it's rendered at 2p and upscaled to 1080p which means it can be called 1080p because your TV screen is not going to stretch it!
Look at all that detail!
It just 'pops' more.
Hey look, it's rendered at 2p and upscaled to 1080p which means it can be called 1080p because your TV screen is not going to stretch it!
Look at all that detail!
.
Udham
Member
I'm curious what Albert is going to say.
It must be one of these or all.
- The delay in finalizing driver, which was due to upclocks, left devs with little time to achieve good FPS on 1080p. This will be non-issue for future games.
- Devs are not comfortable working with ESRAM yet, and at this point due to the launch rush optimizations were not so effective.
- We are looking at releasing resources reserved for Kinect. We run 3 OSs and the balance needs to be redefined.
- The Xb1 upscale by the HW is much different and better than how its normally done by devs or by the TV. Reviewers have reiterated the same.
- We will work on our strengths and weeknesses to give you best gaming experience, both Online and Offline. We are commited to bring our best line-up in 2014, starting with Titanfall in Spring.
- We are glad to announce that Peter Moore is making a come back. He still needs his Dreamcast revenge.
It must be one of these or all.
- The delay in finalizing driver, which was due to upclocks, left devs with little time to achieve good FPS on 1080p. This will be non-issue for future games.
- Devs are not comfortable working with ESRAM yet, and at this point due to the launch rush optimizations were not so effective.
- We are looking at releasing resources reserved for Kinect. We run 3 OSs and the balance needs to be redefined.
- The Xb1 upscale by the HW is much different and better than how its normally done by devs or by the TV. Reviewers have reiterated the same.
- We will work on our strengths and weeknesses to give you best gaming experience, both Online and Offline. We are commited to bring our best line-up in 2014, starting with Titanfall in Spring.
- We are glad to announce that Peter Moore is making a come back. He still needs his Dreamcast revenge.
If you like your images to be that sharp, you probably have sharpness turned way up on your TV, so the PS4 version will look even better to you (horrible sharpening will be more effective given a higher resolution source). But if you don't like that, you can't remove the sharpening from the Xbox one version.
Because that is motion blurr
If you look at any other part of the picture textures quality is the same as pc
MMaRsu
Member
I think he's really disingenuous.
Krusenstern
Banned
I also can't comprehend why this guy still has free roam here on this place.
Grimløck;88429919 said:
I think you should be banned for "stretching the truth". It doesn't contribute to healthy discussion if you post disinformation.
HORRORSHØW
Member
He's just doing his job. Unfortunately for him, part of that job description includes stretching the truth.
all i want from Albert is clarification on his comment saying that there was "no way" that the Xbone was giving up 30% performance to the PS4....
CambriaRising
Member
Neither can I. He does nothing but damage control and mislead (almost to the point of outright lying) people in order to paint his company in a better light. Its hard to feel like a line has not been crossed with him and it is going unchecked.
Yes, it appears he can say whatever he wants because he's the official mouthpiece of MS. Maybe the mods here are also fearful of losing such a 'source' of information by banning the account.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Yes there is an explanation. XBO wasn't outputting a full RGB spectrum, so things that should be just sort of black came out as completely black. Completely black details are easier to see than subtly black details, and that makes the XBO look like it has more detail.
If you accept that the PC is the most powerful version, then the PS4 most closely matches that in every situation, including the wall textures and that dude's hair.
Timdog is the funniest and most self-aware shill I've found on twitter
Here's a fun quote: "GODBOXONE WILL DO COD 2k15 1080p"
Fuckin lol
Here's a fun quote: "GODBOXONE WILL DO COD 2k15 1080p"
Fuckin lol
him and misterXmedia should be roommates...and then there could be a reality show based on it...
PS4 version on the bottom?
Other media outlets are running with it - conveniently taking what DF says as truth.
For example - The Guardian newspaper
http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...tion-4-xbox-one-consoles-call-of-duty-ghostss
BTW, good luck finding the article since it's been buried deep, especially compared to the usual pro xbox articles and the 'sony doesnt have mp3' article.
Something seemed wrong, so I read the article and looked at the evidence.. as an example, here's a couple of the comparison images.
So when I see the phrase "wiping away the grease" , clearly it's the texture detail that he is referring to, not the resolution and it is a massive difference..
I don't know what is going here on GAF, your misrepresentation of the actual 'facts' seems as bad or worse then the people you are accusing...
All I can see are comparisons that show a huge difference, I'd say way worse then BF4 if I'm being honest, unless you want to limit IQ to only aliasing that is.
I'm in 100000% on PS4, have a second VITA turning up Monday just for remote play, and will get multi-plays on PS4 due to the better performance, but I don't understand this odd scrutiny that people are now putting on everything, and especially in the above case, WTAF are people misrepresenting the article for??
I must be missing something, and I apologise now for that, but I am just using my own eyes and assessing the differences..
Hell, I even looked at BF4, and I can see the extra obvious aliasing, and I can see the sharpening filter on the XB1 version, and whilst I'd get the PS4 version myself (not having an XB1 preordered, it's not really a choice I would have anyway), I think the difference isn't THAT huge, not to the point I think it would be night and day, but I guess we all have different tolerance levels. I agreed with Jack Frags, he' gave a nice and seemingly fair appraisal and pointed out the differences but didn't think it was enough to warrant choosing one console over the other..
Yet now, anyone not pronouncing the gap as 'profound' is in MS pocket and under immense scrutiny and chastisement...
Odd, because I tend to act pro-MS at times, not because I actually like them as a company, I don't, I just can't understand the difference between my experience with their consoles and what I read on GAF.. I have always bought Sony hardware and have over £10K invested in their DSLRs, have had over £10K of projectors off them, not to mention receivers, TV's, radio's, walkmans, suffice to say, I like Sony as a company, but I don't exclude other brands because of it..
/rant..
Still love GAF though.. despite the oddities, I can't think of anywhere that gets the real information faster.. you just have to wade through all the noise..Where do you guys get taught how to write so vaguely? Very political, cryptic and deflective.
Broder Salsa
Banned
Haha this is amazing, the worst is some will eat up such BS.
disastermouse
Banned
It's a class in business school called 'How to mislead without actually lying'.
travisbickle
Member
Anyone find the George Carlin clip about political words and what they mean?
ConteZero76
Member
What about Bill Hicks on marketing ?
.....
/rant..
My big problem with the XBO isn't with rushed launch games where the difference is just resolution but games coming out two years from now . Just look at how far games have come in the last generation. As advancements are made in shader programing and GPU compute there will start to be things done that the Xbox simply doesn't have to power to put it all together at once. People can do and make what ever decisions they want but I'm 100% certain that I would feel boned buying and Xbox now at $500 if I bought into Microsoft's spin that they can always have parity in graphics for the entire generation. I plan on getting one down the line for the exclusives but not for $500 as I feel that is a rip off on bang for your buck, IMO. Seems people are trying to decide who's gonna "Win the war" so to say from launch games only without looking ahead and how software will develop over time and the ramifications it will have based on the hardware which can't change.
tl/dr: I'm guessing low information buyers will feel duped by MS in two years.
shinra-bansho
Member
The PS3 version above looks like ass. And was rightly called so.
But... that doesn't change that visual flaws are spun as positives in the BF4 face-off.
But... that doesn't change that visual flaws are spun as positives in the BF4 face-off.
- the author claims software upscaling is being used, based on seemingly nothing, and even in the event that it is, incorrectly assumes that software upscaling will necessarily be worse than hardware scaling (there's a really great post about this somewhere.)
- the author mistakes the limited colour output causing crushed blacks as more detailed textures.
- the author claims that whatever awful sharpening filter is being applied is "detail-boosting" and potentially part of some new secret sauce Microsoft upscaling tech.