What are you talking about?
Adam Sessler's: On Xbox One and PS4's Resolutiongate, and Day One Patches
- Thread starter Tripon
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Yes it is true but this particular issue is about the double standards of the games media.
For too long they have applied one set of rules for one and not the other (this isnt just about consoles but publisher/developer battles as well). They cant spend an entire generation making a mountain out of a molehill, only for a new generation to start and then say "here is Mr.Mole and we are burying the little shit as he never mattered "
Alot of gamers are sick and bloody tired of the games media. With the main issue being that the media have distanced themselves from the gamer, by becoming just another extension to someones PR department
That would be great if it was only the resolution. The (first world) problem is that the PS4 should have more power than the X1 to do all of the other possible new experiences better as well.*
For cheaper.
*Well, not including Kinect.
How? Reviews will still be out before the console launches.
something fishy
Member
it's until 10 days before isn't it?
Sounds like you're missing the point as well. Sir, gaf is not getting upset about gameplay on multiplatform games. We expect it to be the same.
The issue is that sessler expected 1080p 60fps, and now he says it doesn't matter. Its odd to change your tune right around the time of all this 'resolutiongate' news.
something fishy
Member
it ends before the ps4 releases, so people will still know before they both launch.
seems like exactly what you say.
deranged_666
Member
So, because someone has been doing something for 15 years, any criticism of their job performance should be deemed invalid, because they are perfect? The fact that he really believes that because he's been in this business for so long, he has nothing left to learn about it and should be impervious to criticism really shows how out of touch with life this guy is.
plagiarize
Banned
They could have stuck to a message of exclusives and overall package all along and not had this mess. Now, all the comparisons showing clearly that their console is weaker are going to hit right before their console hits. When the PS4 launches its going to be heralded with talk of how much better the games on it look.
Whoops!
Micromegas
Member
I don't necessarily disagree with this. It is a marketing/pr thing, like 3D movies, and similar moves when they're just trying to sell you the new shiny. Like DVD --> BLU-Ray. Whatever.
However, they (the publishers and developers) are complicit and rolling right along with this 1080p/60fps console gen w/out any dissent, so when their game can't hit the target, or in the case of XBOne falls well short on a brand new console, then I say shitstorm on them is well warranted, because they dug the hole...
It's like when J Allard announce the HD gen back at the begging of last gen. Many developers shit their pants because they couldn't complete w/ the hi-res assets, etc. And now, it's gonna start all over again, where developers are going to struggle to run w/ the big boys.
Think about, now, at the last of this generation, we have many games that can barely hit 720p at a decent framerate w/out screen-tearing, texture pop-in, etc. It can't all be on the hardware? I think there's a unhealthy cycle where devs are competing on how much eye-candy they can throw into game because it's those bullshots on the back of the box that sell games, and not the "performance" -- or lack thereof.
Portugeezer
Member
The context is that he, like people on GAF, was not excited about 1080p itself but expected 1080p for the fact that these are next gen consoles we're expected to pay hundreds of dollars for. So much so that he was condescending to programmers who do a job I'm sure Sessler wouldn't even know where to begin. So, obviously whilst technical graphics are not the most important thing, we have certain expectations for expensive consoles.
But now somehow 1080p and hundreds of dollar consoles don't matter.
something fishy
Member
I think they do or the studios wouldn't be talking about it.
the fact that first party are all pushing for the higher res suggests they know it matters.
Sure, and he's not denying that. But right now, the biggest differences between xb1 and ps4 multiplatforms is resolution and AA. And tons of people here are acting like its the end of the world. Imo those are easily two of the least important aspects of a game. Can the ps4 achieve better game design and immersion than the xb1 due to the power difference? Yeah. But based on GAF, people are placing 1080p on a pedestal. And I think that could lead to drawbacks or lack of breakthroughs in other, more important areas.
Nymphae
Banned
Who is claiming otherwise? Everyone knows you can make amazing games without pushing tech to it's limits.
As previously mentioned I amn't and will never get an Xbone. To me it is a fucked value proposition. I have no interested in the platform.
In your example above you mention framerate. Framerate is not resolution. I said I didn't care about resolution. Framerate I do care about.
What does this shit have to do with what I said?
lol it Samsung 19" tv, decent low lag on it. It could be the same one.
Again missing the point. Gameplay is always king. The point is ignoring something missing what was once expected to be the standard.
Can Crusher
Banned
Honestly I still like him, I actually check out Rev3 regularly mostly because of his videos. But as he's proving right now, he's better when talking about actual games and not about the market or about the tech. He's losing a lot of faith right now, and he can only blame himself for flip flopping and being straight up inaccurate.
He clearly should stop talking about these subjects.
I think he was simply making a joke about people staring at games like forza 5 and going "next gen is here! 1080p/60fps". Better hardware will naturally bring better looking games. But at what point do you start prioritizing other things?
Again, his argument applies to both the xb1 and ps4. Does hitting 1080p outweigh 64 player multiplayer? And it's not just about muliplatform games.
but we have also seen that ps4 has a less framerate drops and is faster at recovering from those drops than xbox one all while pushing a higher resolution running the same game.
Only uninteresting because it is expected. When the games come out and they don't meet what is expected it should then BECOME interesting. Sessler is a hypocrite.
tinfoilhatman
all of my posts are my avatar
I have to assume he's(and many others) walking a fine line with Microsoft right now
NoirVisage
Banned
Agreed, Sessler will always be my favorite spastic/super animated gaming media personality, i watched him on tech tv and i still watch him on rev3, when he starts getting to TB levels of butthattery, I'll jump ship, for now, I feel he's just really wrong with his stance on defending MS.
UberTag
Member
Thankfully there isn't an embargo on the embargo that there's an embargo or we'd have never heard about it.
so more people have less time to learn about differences, would be my guess.
Great then I'd get the Ps4 one if I was getting either console. I was responding to a poster who was claiming every cares about resolutiion. I said I didn't, everything elsse is far more important. 720p is more then good enough.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
I don't think anyone is acting like it's the end of the world.
People are rightly confused by what seems like a change of heart when it comes to the importance of graphical differences in otherwise identical games.
FunkyPajamas
Member
So... Do you guys think it's time we call all these "journalists" into a GAF roundtable and take them to task on their BS? I would honestly like to see an open panel discussion with most of these guys to try and understand what's going on.
Anybody with the right connections that thinks this is possible?
Anybody with the right connections that thinks this is possible?
See and I think that sessler is questioning what the standard should be. I'm not saying that I completely agree with him or that his position is without fault. But I'm not paying $400 to play cod in 1080p. I'm paying $400 because I hope that in a few years we will see AAA games that weren't possible on the 360/ps3 for more reasons than resolution.
if that's the issue. they are giving MS and other publishers way too much power. If they are afraid of being blacklisted or some other form of retribution, they need to call it out when it happens. If they bash MS for putting out a less than expected console or games or any other product and MS blacklists, them they need to call MS out. this will not only bring them more credibility with the gamers at large, and other media outlets will follow suit because of that. this will cause MS or whomever else to either blacklist everyone or stop retaliating in fear of being outed as a bully big business. which is way worse than having your product harshly criticized.
He isn't though because it was him who said 1080p should be expected back at the Screw attack gaming convention. The issues is in his flip flopping.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I think the focus on "one system has more pixels than the other and this is a super duper big deal!!!!" aspect of the discussion ignores what's at the heart of the matter here. It's not about whether resolution being the end all be all and whether or not more Ps on the back of the box matters to Joe Sixpack in as much as it's about establishing that there is in fact a difference here. Maybe resolution doesn't matter to the "average gamer," and it's fair to say that gameplay is what matters the most.
But in the meantime, what does it mean when an identical game is doing this on Platform X and that on Platform Y? Maybe it's not the end of the world, but I do think it's important not to trivialize the differences either. This stuff means something after all, and hand waving it away as some secondary or tertiary concern I don't think is as constructive to the dialog as some want to believe.
Wait...reviews have come out? Lets not play dumb. The xb1 will get grilled in the launch multiplatform reviews. If the versions were going to get the same scores and differences would be downplayed, the embargo wouldn't exist.
Seriously, why do you think MS is enforcing an embargo?
PsychoSoldier
Banned
This would never happen. The usual suspects are content to snipe from a safe distance rather than engage with people who have legitimate concerns.
I'm deeply sad that in my mind I now equate Sessler with Gies.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
They need to bring this back.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Yup, it's tricky. I think the line as far as MS is concerned is:
if our game is 1080p (e.g. Kinect Sports Rivals), make a big deal of the awesome next-gen graphics
else, claim 720p is just as good / difference is imperceptible.
It must get confusing sometimes. Especially when talking about a future release whose resolution hasn't been finalised yet.
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
While I agree that he is a hypocrite I also believe that a person is entitled to have a change of heart. If that change had economical motivations they might not be that honest but if he actually found true joy in playing old PS1-games again and felt that next gen is truely over-hyped and games is everything...
I'm bringing it up because it's the correct response to his open query - also I'd like to think we don't have to bulk out every response by adding "and X do it too" to prevent confusion.
All companies use whatever's popular to try and advance other services/features - but the degree to which it harms the core device's purpose/cost makes all the difference as to whether it pans out or not.
This time around MS balance (pardon the pun) seems off vs Sony in terms of gameplay focus vs other services.
Also MS goals are arguably different. Sony has pushed some new tech that mostly makes sense from a games perspective - CD for more storage, then DVD then Blu-Ray.
MS are pushing for a lot broader than that as XB1 design shows.
The sooner you accept that a new gen isn't going to bring in a lot more "new gameplay experiences" but principally better graphics, the better. The differences between these consoles are better tech, which leads to better visuals/sound mostly. The rest is limited by a developer's imagination.
It's always been like this, so it's a bit weird that suddenly there are so many people worrying about "new gameplay".
Besides, that's a false dichotomy, which is made in the context of the "resolution gate" which has been brought to us by comparisons between 2 strictly identical versions (gameplay-wise) of 2 different games from 2 major devs.
So this whole debate is rather irrelevant to what's the hot topic, which is, after months of analysis of raw specs and speculations on these machine's potential capabilities (and how they compare), we finally get concrete examples giving an idea of what this means on a purely technical level.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Try to keep up, he didn't say "resolution doesn't matter". Exact quote:
"There was never a need to try to make resolution such a definitive aspect of what next-generation gaming is going to be".
Meaning, it's important, but not the most important thing. So obvious and yet so misunderstood (on purpose, I believe).
PsychoSoldier
Banned
Attitudes expressed in editorial content is usually reflected in reviews as well.
I'm not sure why we shouldn't discuss why the attitude towards these particulars seems to have changed so dramatically.
And as many people have said, this is largely a new phenomenon. The differences between the Wii and the HD console twins were largely considered a fairly definitive point of contrast and much smaller differences in image quality were enough to recommend one game over the other on largely comparable platforms.
To say nothing of him considering 1080p/60fps to be bare minimum at one time only to have a change of heart in a pretty short amount of time.
Sure and I feel the same way. And I think that ignoring the fact that the ps4 offers the same experiences with higher resolutions is the biggest mistake Sessler made in this video. But he still made some good points that lie outside of the console wars and have more to do with defining a next generation experience. And I find it mildly disappointing that those points are swept under the rug and Sessler is declared the new Geis
canedaddy
Member
I don't disagree, but in that case the person wouldn't be attacking those who question him about it... he'd humbly explain why he feels differently now.
Ninja Scooter
Member
See this is where I think a lot of the media are (maybe intentionally) missing the point. People are not raging because the next CoD is 720p. The reason this is a story is because the implication that if developers are having to run XBone games in lower resolution, does this mean the more expensive console is less powerful? What does this mean for the future? Does this mean the roles have been reversed and the Xbone ports/versions will be inferior the way many PS3 games were in some of these "not so important" aspects like resolution and frame rate? People would just like to see the media to ask these questions instead of seemingly getting mad at their audience for daring to ask the question themselves.
I'd argue that. There are multiple games on current gen systems that would not be possible on the ps2/xbox. And there are multiple stories of developers having to cut content or limit rather large design aspects of their games because of spec struggles.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Comparing this situation with the Wii is dumb because the difference in quality between 360/PS3 weren't only in resolution, but an order of magnitude in every technical graphical aspect. So even if you didn't care about resolution, there was still the matter of polygon count, texture resolution, shader models, lighting models, etc...
Also, if you guys actually watched the SC panel he's saying that resolution isn't as important as game design, exactly the same thing he's saying now. So really, there's no hypocrisy at all, just people with comprehension problems.
When the consoles and the games come out will see lot of those types of articles no doubt, with technical analysis from DF and more. It's just too early to drop the hammer.
Do all people here complaining about this situation also think that the 360 > PS3 since most multiplatform games run better on the former and for most of it's life was also cheaper?
Well he clearly isn't interested in the discussion, given the passive aggressive "Let's get back to the fun stuff" during the Resogun gameplay video (after talking about resolution and framerate).
The way he comes off in that video sounds like he expected 1080p/60fps as the bare minimum, true, however in light of the new comments i see him as simply not being interested in those features as a bullet point in the first place.
I just think going to search for that one time someone said something and worded it in a sketchy way, is quite petty.
I don't even give a shit about Sessler, i don't agree with him most of the times, so i'm not trying to defend him.
I just think this whole debacle is reaching, as always, pathetic levels of condescension on one part, and obnoxious melodrama on the other.
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One product is obviously underpowered and over priced compared to the other (all other elements being unknown and therefore equal) journalists should report as much without bringing out weird excuses, and people should chill out and take these consoles for what they are, electronic products that you can avoid to buy.
Instead we have the typical poisonous atmosphere that makes it so annoying to be part of the gaming space.
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