QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I just expect them to patch in her damage scaling which is pretty much non existent at this point
Fighting Games Weekly | Nov 4-10 | I-No what that finger smells like [18+]
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Parallax Scroll
Banned
more like x shit
Ragingnight
Member
what kind of playstyle is kokonoe?
Maybe. I kind of hope they do. But I'm not sure Arc is willing to do a character patch outside of infinites or unintended glitches.
toddhunter
Member
A set-up character I feel, who just happens to have big damage.
Ragingnight
Member
persona doesn't have broken characters. Persona is a set of dominate characers that have a really strong braindead gameplan. I wouldn't say any character is clearly broken.
I don't know much about GG so I can't comment.
I know BB had a series of good characters and bad characters.
I think the worst balance game of this gen out of all the competent fighters is MK9. Early KL and kabal just fucked everybody over.
Then again I heard some countries ban viola in SC5.
Magna_Mixalis
Member
More or less. She does have a few pretty good rush down options, though.
But god damn, the link timing...
Only France bans Viola, as far as I know. Hilde was banned in SC4, but it took a while for the community to come to that decision.
Also, new SC2 HD Online vid. Pretty good match between Ivy and Nightmare: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP27wuCcvGU
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
that's why they call it a casual restaurant
I wouldn't say broken, but yeah, there's usually those S tiers (but BBCP has a lot of strong characters in that high level).
People are just hoping for a patch because it is a DLC character.
I do want to let things rock first though regardless. It's only been a day.
Passive Assassin
Member
come on guys. he's just young and naive and eats too many french fries.
I kind of wonder how many people asking for Kokonoe bans now were laughing at all of the Injustice players when Scorpion was first released.
At least anime players show up for their 9 AM finals.
toddhunter
Member
I think she'll settle down. If you rush her down it doesn't seem like there is a heap she can do about it. Of course if your character can't do that or you miss your chance then you are going to be pretty stuffed.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
RockTurtle
Member
damn. that looks tight.
yeah ghostrider got robbed, i keep thinking that if he had maybe a bit more speed and his chain had special properties he could be anti-morrigan
Ragingnight
Member
if his chains nullify projectiles it would help him a ton.
He has tons of core issues. A zoner that gets beat by zoners. He can't control vertical space or even the space diagonally in front of him. And he has a level 3 command grab which means the zoner has to be upclose to even have it as a threat.
Ghost Rider has so many fucking issues that you need a remake on the character to make him "Marvel" good.
Even in our recommended GAF patch he doesn't seem that good... or that is to say he doesn't seem that interesting even if he does end up being derp tier.
Chain nullifying projectiles is not really something that would make him good. His Heartless Spire serves that purpose. What he needs is for his chains to actually chip on block for him to be an actual zoning character in the game. If your zoning doesn't chip the other character then your zoning is straight up garbage in the game. The next issue is his aerial control which we recommended that he gets wall bounce chains to be Air OK. This would give him air to air options against fliers who can zone him out.
This was our final suggestion list for Ghost Rider:
Ghost Rider:
+Spirit of Vengeance now has hyper armor on frame 0; H follow-up recovers faster, allowing for a full combo.
+Chain-based normals now deal 15% chip damage.
+Heartless Spire vertical hitbox increased; jump-cancelable; assist version startup is 34 frames, upper body invincible.
+Judgment Strike now reaches full-screen.
+Chain of Rebuttal and Chain of Punishment vertical hitbox extended downward; now air OK.
+Forward dash distance increased by 50%; total active frames unchanged.
+Hellfire (all versions) are now +4 on block; startup reduced to 10 frames for all versions; recovery reduced to 14 for all versions.
+Chain of Punishment and Hell’s Embrace hitboxes widened.
+c.M startup reduced to 9 frames; hitbox increased slightly and travels slightly farther.
+Hellfire Maelstrom recovery reduced to 25 frames; -7 on block; causes heavy pushback on block.
Assists: Judgment Strike, Chain of Rebuttal, Heartless Spire
Most of these are just "fixes" to moves that are so bad that they were obviously not tested properly.
Even in our recommended GAF patch he doesn't seem that good... or that is to say he doesn't seem that interesting even if he does end up being derp tier.
Chain nullifying projectiles is not really something that would make him good. His Heartless Spire serves that purpose. What he needs is for his chains to actually chip on block for him to be an actual zoning character in the game. If your zoning doesn't chip the other character then your zoning is straight up garbage in the game. The next issue is his aerial control which we recommended that he gets wall bounce chains to be Air OK. This would give him air to air options against fliers who can zone him out.
This was our final suggestion list for Ghost Rider:
Ghost Rider:
+Spirit of Vengeance now has hyper armor on frame 0; H follow-up recovers faster, allowing for a full combo.
+Chain-based normals now deal 15% chip damage.
+Heartless Spire vertical hitbox increased; jump-cancelable; assist version startup is 34 frames, upper body invincible.
+Judgment Strike now reaches full-screen.
+Chain of Rebuttal and Chain of Punishment vertical hitbox extended downward; now air OK.
+Forward dash distance increased by 50%; total active frames unchanged.
+Hellfire (all versions) are now +4 on block; startup reduced to 10 frames for all versions; recovery reduced to 14 for all versions.
+Chain of Punishment and Hell’s Embrace hitboxes widened.
+c.M startup reduced to 9 frames; hitbox increased slightly and travels slightly farther.
+Hellfire Maelstrom recovery reduced to 25 frames; -7 on block; causes heavy pushback on block.
Assists: Judgment Strike, Chain of Rebuttal, Heartless Spire
Most of these are just "fixes" to moves that are so bad that they were obviously not tested properly.
LOL I remember that picture.
That was when the game first came out and people realized in a few HOURS that Ghost Rider was garbage. Then people started thinking of ways to make him "Marvel" good and everyone had the same idea:
*Give him chip on normals like MVC2 Sentinel
*Give him Chris's Fire grenades as his flame breath moves (they linger on the ground)
*Give him sword normal hit boxes on chains
*Give him sunglasses and a trenchcoat... automatic top tier
That was when the game first came out and people realized in a few HOURS that Ghost Rider was garbage. Then people started thinking of ways to make him "Marvel" good and everyone had the same idea:
*Give him chip on normals like MVC2 Sentinel
*Give him Chris's Fire grenades as his flame breath moves (they linger on the ground)
*Give him sword normal hit boxes on chains
*Give him sunglasses and a trenchcoat... automatic top tier
MarkMan
loves Arcade Sticks
I've met a lot of the xsplit guys and they're great people. Granted there may be issues with billing on their site, but from what I know that' isn't all their fault.
Plus, my man offcast is at xsplit. I believe in that dude.
SloaneRisette
Member
But but but but but different playstyles!
Out of the new characters I would say a bit more than half ended up being alright.
Good characters (some too good):
Vergil (although not play tested any where near properly), Nova, Strider, Frank, Firebrand, Hawkeye, Rocket Raccoon, Dr Strange (although he definitely has some weird issues)
Not so good characters:
Nemesis, Iron Fist, Phoenix Wright, Ghost Rider
MiniBossBattle
Member
You find balance through variety.
Just stick Dante in the middle with a beam assist.
Professor Beef
Banned
I'd be willing to host another Marvel tournament. I'd even be willing to put a small prize on the line.
I'd be way more ruthless with the rules, though. Fucking tired of flakers.
I'd be way more ruthless with the rules, though. Fucking tired of flakers.
Well, Iron Fist has a good assist at least, and Nemesis can be "tricky" and hits like a truck (and has the life of one as well), but the other two....Capcom pls...
I approve 100% them trying to make something different, I love what they did with Frank West, something completely new to a fg (IIRC) and it worked very well. Hell, even PW has a cool mechanic (I think we was never supposed to be any good), but man....why the hell Iron Fist has that shitty S?! That ruins a character that already has problems
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
For the most part it seems like the marvel team was too scared of the "different" characters being too good so they leave them tonned down. Which leads to them sucking once people learn everything
toddhunter
Member
Probably the safer option. They can always adjust in a patch anyway.
His damage is actually not great.
Hypers that scale to like 100k damage do not help.
If he was like Hulk and could kill almost everyone even from Command grabs, more people would use him.I'd definitely use him more if his armored moves were active immediately
The S isn't even the problem with Iron Fist. Good Iron Fist players don't even use the S because his optimized combos don't utilize the move. That's like attributing Iron Man's suckiness to his launcher, his mobility is the issue not his launcher sucking.
Iron Fist's issues are that he's a ground footsie character in a game where in order to have good footsies you need sword normals. The best footsie characters in the game are Dante, Vergil and Taskmaster because they have fast ground movement and LONG ranged sword normals. The fuck is Iron fist going to play footsies with a Dante who has Stinger.
The other problem is that he has absolutely no air options. There are many ground characters in the game who do well like Wolverine because they at least have a dive kick and ways to convert aerial hits into real damage... IF has none of that. IF is also one of the few rushdown characters to actually not have a cr.L that hits low which means he is super duper free to up back. If that wasn't bad enough he can't properly follow up after his air throw because the untechable time is too low and his OTG is kinda slow for combo purposes.
For a rushdown character he has mediocre pressure and shit mix ups. People say that IF has great pressure but its really only in the corner and most other good characters have better pressure. His rekkas are ass for pressure, you push block the second to last or the last one he will die because his final rekka will whiff and you can punish him. That is why you don't see Justin Wong try to pressure people with his rekkas.
Another issue is that his two good moves the "Wall" and Rising Fang are moves that can only be used as the final move of a 3 part rekka series which means for neutral purposes those moves might as well not exist. The Wall would allow him an edge in fighting against someone like Wolverine or Vergil because of its armor property and Rising Fang would allow him to punish zoners as it has projectile nullification. Rising Fang in the air would also allow him to get real damage out of aerial hits.
The only two things IF has going for him in this game are damage off of a clean hit and Rising Fang being a good assist. Damage is never a good enough reason alone to pick someone in this game because so many characters do insane damage especially Mid tiers and being an assist only character is something that gets you by only in MVC2, not in this game.
Now on the point of Nemesis... LordJim is right for a heavy character Nemesis doesn't do that huge damage because he scales super hard. His command throw game is very finnicky due to the active hit boxes of the move. More importantly Nemesis is an armor character like Hulk who has very shit functioning armor. The armor starts up way too slow to make rushdown characters respect him. If his armor started up fast then he would at least be a problem for rushdown characters or other heavy characters. All of Nemesis hypers are pure shit especially his LVL3 which is bottom 5 lvl3 in the game because it lacks the proper invulnerability frames. Nemesis also lacks safe block strings, pressure strings and frame traps... even his armor trap moves are bad because of the issues listed before. His rocket game also isn't that great especially his ground rocket which is pure ass. With some tweaks though this character can be as good as Hulk at least which is good enough IMO because Hulk is the best armor/big body character in the game.
Iron Fist's issues are that he's a ground footsie character in a game where in order to have good footsies you need sword normals. The best footsie characters in the game are Dante, Vergil and Taskmaster because they have fast ground movement and LONG ranged sword normals. The fuck is Iron fist going to play footsies with a Dante who has Stinger.
The other problem is that he has absolutely no air options. There are many ground characters in the game who do well like Wolverine because they at least have a dive kick and ways to convert aerial hits into real damage... IF has none of that. IF is also one of the few rushdown characters to actually not have a cr.L that hits low which means he is super duper free to up back. If that wasn't bad enough he can't properly follow up after his air throw because the untechable time is too low and his OTG is kinda slow for combo purposes.
For a rushdown character he has mediocre pressure and shit mix ups. People say that IF has great pressure but its really only in the corner and most other good characters have better pressure. His rekkas are ass for pressure, you push block the second to last or the last one he will die because his final rekka will whiff and you can punish him. That is why you don't see Justin Wong try to pressure people with his rekkas.
Another issue is that his two good moves the "Wall" and Rising Fang are moves that can only be used as the final move of a 3 part rekka series which means for neutral purposes those moves might as well not exist. The Wall would allow him an edge in fighting against someone like Wolverine or Vergil because of its armor property and Rising Fang would allow him to punish zoners as it has projectile nullification. Rising Fang in the air would also allow him to get real damage out of aerial hits.
The only two things IF has going for him in this game are damage off of a clean hit and Rising Fang being a good assist. Damage is never a good enough reason alone to pick someone in this game because so many characters do insane damage especially Mid tiers and being an assist only character is something that gets you by only in MVC2, not in this game.
Now on the point of Nemesis... LordJim is right for a heavy character Nemesis doesn't do that huge damage because he scales super hard. His command throw game is very finnicky due to the active hit boxes of the move. More importantly Nemesis is an armor character like Hulk who has very shit functioning armor. The armor starts up way too slow to make rushdown characters respect him. If his armor started up fast then he would at least be a problem for rushdown characters or other heavy characters. All of Nemesis hypers are pure shit especially his LVL3 which is bottom 5 lvl3 in the game because it lacks the proper invulnerability frames. Nemesis also lacks safe block strings, pressure strings and frame traps... even his armor trap moves are bad because of the issues listed before. His rocket game also isn't that great especially his ground rocket which is pure ass. With some tweaks though this character can be as good as Hulk at least which is good enough IMO because Hulk is the best armor/big body character in the game.
MiniBossBattle
Member
There are very specific moves that infuriate me to no end (Ironman's stubby chun-li like highkick S; come on man you are not a flash-dancer, Wesker's S being safe and mocking me) but love how people find ways around or utilize their properties on other moves. I got wrecked by an Iron Fistjust wave dash around on the ground and call Dante when you are a superjump height to convert to touch of death combos with enough meter.
I still prefer In & Out over Smash Burger. Smash has some good fries though.
Wish Nemesis hit harder.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Did ChrisG get paid for VxG yet?
The Last Emperor
Member
nice try lmao
Needs more sparkles IMOJust borrowing a few tools from other characters could work
Deckard Cain
Banned
Dahbomb stop.
toddhunter
Member
March, seriously? I don't know about that game. Well I do know, but anyway...
Snippet from the Dieminion AMA http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1q1v1b/whats_the_haps_its_dieminion_ask_me_anything/. I asked him what exactly EMP does for him and if he regretted leaving BT:
Ok but what?
6 characters, spastic as fuck all. I'll pass.
I agree that the S is not Iron Fist's biggest issue, but man, it IS annoying.
About Nemesis, well, I think I was mistaken about his damage and he is even worst than I tough :lol
Well, nevertheless, I came back to Marvel after like 6 months without playing it. Also, I lost all shame and picked straight top tier (team Nemo). I'm having nightmares with FoF combos dropping all over the place, but I'm having more fun than before
I don't think it is a bad fg at all, looks kinda cool actually, I would play it IF it was on PS3. No way I'm buying a XBONE now
About Nemesis, well, I think I was mistaken about his damage and he is even worst than I tough :lol
Well, nevertheless, I came back to Marvel after like 6 months without playing it. Also, I lost all shame and picked straight top tier (team Nemo). I'm having nightmares with FoF combos dropping all over the place, but I'm having more fun than before
I don't think it is a bad fg at all, looks kinda cool actually, I would play it IF it was on PS3. No way I'm buying a XBONE now
Ragingnight
Member
2D doa. + its xb1 so definitely not getting the game. I tend to support competent games by buying them day 1 even though I don't play them (ttt2, doa5, mk9, etc etc) but definitely not supporting any xb1 bullshit. You can't RROD me again MS! and if other companies have to suffer because they are xb1 exclusive, so be it.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Stop asking to be a mod
irfaanator
Banned
Wings over
I wouldn't say I'm "excited" or "hyped" but I am interested to see how far that model takes them above everything, how they improve the game in their extended support and how effective their attempts to make a fighting game that appeals to the masses are.
It's definitely the most interesting fighting game release in a long while.
Yeah I am in the same boat as you. The model is interesting and if its a success it could change the way fighting games are released in the future.
I also want to see some crazy shit. Stuff like combo breaker into Instinct cancel to punish the combo and then burn all your Shadow meter for a 60% combo in a clutch situation. I know stuff like this is possible but I want to see someone win a game off of it in a tense situation.
I also want to see some crazy shit. Stuff like combo breaker into Instinct cancel to punish the combo and then burn all your Shadow meter for a 60% combo in a clutch situation. I know stuff like this is possible but I want to see someone win a game off of it in a tense situation.