They will still have to pay 30% to steam for a game they are publishing.
If EA publishes a game and sells it for/on steam they will have to pay 30% to valve. If they sell it on origin they get to keep those 30% for themselves.
PC Gaming isn't locked in to one store, so why is the hate for Steam competitors?
- Thread starter Gowans
- Start date
They will still have to pay 30% to steam for a game they are publishing.
If EA publishes a game and sells it for/on steam they will have to pay 30% to valve. If they sell it on origin they get to keep those 30% for themselves.
Sentenza
Member
No, they won't?
They would have to pay the 30% cut exclusively for every copy Valve would sell directly from their front store; you know, exactly like they would have to pay the same cut for every other digital reseller or more for retail resellers.
Because that's how business works: if someone sells your stuff for you, he also has right to a cut of the revenues.
And if they had their own front store where they were going to sell Steam serial keys, they would keep that 30% for themselves, as well.
See? Unrelated. It's "politics", as JaseC said.
As I already posted in the previous pages, EA and Ubisoft aren't pushing their own services to generate more revenues (chances are they are giving up on more money that they are making in the process, actually); what they are trying to do is to brute force their position into relevance in the digital market.
Without particular success, I would add.
No, you aren't reading this correctly. They only would have to pay 30% to Valve if it was sold on Valve's service, Steam. If they sold Steam keys on their own website, they would also get to keep 100% of the revenue (and pay a lot less in expenses).
My guess is that either no one at EA thought about this alternative (hopefully unlikely) or else they assumed that if someone as large as EA were to pull their games off the Steam marketplace just to sell Steam keys elsewhere that that would be a loophole Valve would have to close eventually (by mandating that anything Steam redeemable also be available on Steam proper. Valve wants more people on their storefront, sure, but that would be potentially opening the floodgates.
Hopefully in time, this will be resolved as Steam transforms more into an API and allows others to open their own Steam stores. Certainly no excuse for EA then.
Imperfected
Member
I doubt Valve would care. I know they're rare to see in the wild, but most PC games sold in brick-and-mortar retailers these days come with Steamworks in the box, even single-player games from major publishers like Bethesda.
From Valve's perspective, if EA is giving out Steam keys for games they sell on their own storefront, Valve is getting new Steam users for literally no effort whatsoever. That's why they're so generous when it comes to letting publishers and developers throw Steam keys around. They're not running a charity, they just have a better sense than most companies in the game right now (especially EA) of how "free" can make more money as a long-term investment than bleeding people for money up-front.
Not disagreeing with you at all. My point was that in 2011 if they had allowed EA to do this, I could easily have seen Activision pop up a website selling Steam keys the next day and take their games off of Steam proper. And then potentially Ubi and all the other big and midsized publishers. Again, they would have gotten more Steam users even so, but their revenue would have tanked back then and up until now.
My belief is that the Steam marketplace is their answer to how they solve the loss of revenue when everyone else can open up their own store. They'll probably get some small fee like 5% for sales on other's stores, but make up the difference between what they get now in all the mini-transactions for the games that would occur on the marketplace.
Zeyphersan
Banned
I know it's possible to sell Steam keys for games that used to be available for purchase on Steam but got pulled (like Chronicles of Riddick), but I really don't think EA would have been able to sell Steam keys for their games while also not listing them in the store proper. That's just absurd.
Unless it's been done before. Then it's not absurd.
Unless it's been done before. Then it's not absurd.
Imperfected
Member
Like I said above, companies already do this.
If I go out and buy a copy of Skyrim from a Best Buy - I know, boxed copies, Stone Age, etc. - it will have a Steam key automatically, even though Valve did not sell it through their storefront and did not receive a cut of the proceeds. Again, you're thinking to linearly: Valve doesn't care about the 30% cut of my copy of Skyrim, they care about the 30% cut of every single game I'll buy after Skyrim once Steam is loaded onto my computer and I see their prices and convenience trump running out to Best Buy.
So valve are offering the distribution service for free? I thought you had to pay 30% to valve for every game you want to be available/redeemable/downloadable from the steam service.
Sounds strange, I am quite sure you would have to pay valve if you want your game to be in their library, even if you don't want it on their shop.
Edit: my guess would be that such an option isn't available at all. The contract will probably say the game has to be in the steam shop as well, and they will sell it at the same or cheaper price than your private website, so practically you will never get 100% of your sale if your game is on steam because most people will buy it cheaper from the steam shop, from which valve is going to get a 30% cut
This was taken from the Steamworks site so just ignore the framing of it being a Steamworks feature. Valve can certainly generate Steam keys for non-Steamworks games as exampled by, say, Bio2 (prior to the Steamworks patch).
No, it's been said many different times in this thread. Valve give out Steam key generators to developers/publishers for free and they get no cut from game keys sold in that way (including at retail).
They aren't being saints in this (although it is clearly forward thinking). They want more people on Steam because they know that more people on Steam means Steam is better for everyone else and Steam itself becomes more desirable for other gamers and game makers.
EDIT: JaseC, as always, brings the goods above. See his post for the actual documentation.
What the contract says is likely speculation, but there are a fair number of discontinued games (pulled from Steam) that continue to sell in other channels (other digital distributors and retail) afterward, so I am guessing the contracts don't say that or are very loosely enforced.
As far as I know, Valve doesn't choose the price you have your game at on Steam. The dev chooses, and prices are only cheap on Steam sales because there is competition to be featured as a daily deal of a sale - not because Valve dictates the price.
EDIT: sorry double post
Well, if adding your game to the steam library and key generation is free, it doesn't make much sense not to sell steam keys.
I guess they should make steam keys redeemable on origin and uplay as well. So you can have a single game library on whichever service you want.
Something like what i mentioned in my earlier post here. "universal" CD-keys that can be used on any game-library service, without any connection to the store it was bought from. So you will be able to buy on origin and play on steam or buy in steam and play using origin.
I guess they should make steam keys redeemable on origin and uplay as well. So you can have a single game library on whichever service you want.
Something like what i mentioned in my earlier post here. "universal" CD-keys that can be used on any game-library service, without any connection to the store it was bought from. So you will be able to buy on origin and play on steam or buy in steam and play using origin.
Some Steamworks/Steam-redeemable games are sold outside of Steam and have never been available on the store proper. Most obviously I'd point to retail-only games like Dynasty Warriors 7 (yes, there's a PC port of Dynasty Warriors 7), but the example I like to use is Disciples Reincarnation -- it's never been available on the Steam Store itself (a fact you can verify by checking the games list of a Valve employee), but you can pick up a Steam key from GamersGate.
I would support this, but as has been pointed out ITT, the vast majority of gamers would buy the key from wherever and then redeem it on Steam which I think EA and Ubi know already which is why they wouldn't get on board with it.
Madrugador
Member
This thread made me wonder. Does EA even have a long term plan for Origin?
Digital distribution is all about trust and I don't wan't to see more services like GFWL. Also, I barely trust EA in general, I hate what they do with a lot of their franchises and even in the PC space they continue to give us a lot of problems with some ports.
I also think something like Origin should evolve through time and I still feel it's basically a store and nothing else, even when it has been out for years.
Also, Origin sucks balls if you live in South America and EA hasn't done a thing to fix this. Even small indie stores do this better than EA.
Digital distribution is all about trust and I don't wan't to see more services like GFWL. Also, I barely trust EA in general, I hate what they do with a lot of their franchises and even in the PC space they continue to give us a lot of problems with some ports.
I also think something like Origin should evolve through time and I still feel it's basically a store and nothing else, even when it has been out for years.
Also, Origin sucks balls if you live in South America and EA hasn't done a thing to fix this. Even small indie stores do this better than EA.
I liked how games were before Steam and these PC platforms became a thing. Just install a game like any other program.
My problem with these is just I don't want 20 different programs installed that I have to open first before I can get to a game. I don't even like Steam and only have it installed very reluctantly because I have "no choice" if I want to game on PC seriously.
My problem with these is just I don't want 20 different programs installed that I have to open first before I can get to a game. I don't even like Steam and only have it installed very reluctantly because I have "no choice" if I want to game on PC seriously.
While true for all companies to a degree, EA being public means as soon as the financial viability of a business line isn't lucrative, it is forced to abandon it by its shareholders. Look at Microsoft with GFWL.
Madrugador
Member
Yep, makes sense. In the end, EA probably doesn't even have a long term plan at all for this and that's a huge problem.
It's not just about using multiple clients for me, it's about having a service that will last and evolve with time.
Speaking of Ubi, I think it's toying with the idea of selling Steam keys itself:
Naturally, they all sport Uplay integration. It makes perfect sense, really: Ubi sees 100% of the revenue from key sales and as they're Uplay games it's also not "losing customers" to Steam.
Right, at a minimum, it is hard to trust that EA or Ubi will be willing to stick with PC gaming if at some point it goes back out of favor (as it did early in the last console cycle).
Hmmm. Not that Uplay integration is too much of a value add (would much rather just full Steamworks integration), but it is an evolution in the right direction.
For better or for worse, it seems to me that Ubi is at least trying to balance what its customers want with what it wants.
EA just says, "Screw it. We want customers on Origin and customers will have to take it."
Sentenza
Member
It's not something technically impossible to do, it's just not very convenient, rationally and economically.
If you have a Steamworks-supported game you should want it on more storefronts as possible.
Doing otherwise "because in that way I can keep 100% of (far less) revenues" would be borderline idiotic.
It would be like "I'm not selling my physical product in that big Wallmart chain, I'm going to sell it only in the small corner shop I own, so I can keep ALL OF THE MONEY FOR MYSELF!".
Maybe you meant something different, but last year I bought Fallout New Vegas on Ubisoft's web store which got me a Steam key for a game with zero Uplay integration.
Haunted
Member
Speaking of uplay and Steam; Trials Evolution not using my Steam friends list, having no Steam achievements or trading card support and necessitating a mandatory startup and login (and, it feels, update) from fucking uplay every time I want to play nearly killed my love for an otherwise brilliant game.
That's what a shitty service can do to your videogame experience.
That's what a shitty service can do to your videogame experience.
Xilium
Member
I don't want to have to have any client, including Steam. They should all be optional imo.
I want to be able to go to Amazon (or any other online retailer), download a game without any additional software, and play it by clicking on its icon.
The whole forced client thing in general annoys me and I don't spend money on any of their storefronts (though I'm forced to use them to access my games).
I want to be able to go to Amazon (or any other online retailer), download a game without any additional software, and play it by clicking on its icon.
The whole forced client thing in general annoys me and I don't spend money on any of their storefronts (though I'm forced to use them to access my games).
I was referring to Ubi's own games. Every in-house Ubi game since AssCreed 2 has used Uplay, save for Rayman Origins.
The reason I like Steam is just because it's a centralized location for software that innately works with my PC. GoG is good too, but with less selection. My PC is connected to my television for gaming, and so far Steam offers the best and least invasive way to organize everything,
Chairmanchuck
Member
The hate for uPlay is there, because FFS when I played Blood Dragon it downloaded patches like in 2001. A zip.exe was downloaded and every time I started the Game it downloaded the next update. Instead of directly downloading the latest one, the first time I played it, it downloaded what seems to be 1.01, the next time I played it 1.02 and so on.
For Origin...
I cant download any Games here in China somehow. Always get some error when I try to download a Game.
Compare that to Steam. I can choose a download-region and get full-speed here in China, since I can choose from 3 or 4 servers here and there are no problems downloading/playing anything.
For Origin...
I cant download any Games here in China somehow. Always get some error when I try to download a Game.
Compare that to Steam. I can choose a download-region and get full-speed here in China, since I can choose from 3 or 4 servers here and there are no problems downloading/playing anything.
Turin Turambar
Member
What? Origin is faster than Steam.
lastplayed
Member
No hate from me. I buy games where they are cheapest. Sometimes it's Steam, sometimes it ain't.
And they're all still in a centralised location: my computer.
And they're all still in a centralised location: my computer.
CecilRousso
Member
Before Steam a lot of the games sold were f*cked up with all kinds of ridiculous DRM schemes, even though a lot of people didn't notice them or read about them. Securom, Tages, Starforce and others. Limited activations, often no chance of getting additional ones. Lots of technical problems with that.
Steam pretty much killed of them.
And without Steam, it wouldn't have been a DRM free heaven. There would have been something else then Steam, but it would not have been nothing.
Because everyone has steam, making all others:
- Inconvenient
- clunky to use
- lacking in features to competitors
- trying to claim exclusivity to application platforms, denying usage through steam
- another layer of pseudo drm on pseudo drm on pseudo drm (load up steam, to load up uplay, to load up gfwl, etc is all fucking bullshit. PICK ONE)
- Inconvenient
- clunky to use
- lacking in features to competitors
- trying to claim exclusivity to application platforms, denying usage through steam
- another layer of pseudo drm on pseudo drm on pseudo drm (load up steam, to load up uplay, to load up gfwl, etc is all fucking bullshit. PICK ONE)
Sentenza
Member
1- No, it isn't.
2- Not sure how that would be enough to disprove his claim.
Rawket Lawnchair
Member
People are fanboys, what else is new?
I have Steam, Origin, uPlay and Desura on my computer, and have no problem with one of them to end up hating it.
They're all equally hard to navigate, sometimes take their time to load a page, sometimes go offline for no reason at all.
I have Steam, Origin, uPlay and Desura on my computer, and have no problem with one of them to end up hating it.
They're all equally hard to navigate, sometimes take their time to load a page, sometimes go offline for no reason at all.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Yeah the good old days when you needed to buy a game, install it, sign into fileplanet and queue to download the latest patch, install and sign into gamespy, install and sign into punkbuster, and install and sign into all seeing eye to browse servers.
That's ignoring the stealth DRM added and additonal programs to do things like take screenshots or message people.
Abdul Hafeez
Member
Most of them just aren't as good as Steam. True, Origin and GoG have refund policies now that Steam doesn't, but even then Steam has so many more features. Not that all of those features are used by every game, but hey, Skyrim is just better on Steam. It would be a pain for people to have to search for mods on the internet. Having the game, the modding tools, and the mods in one location helps make it accessible to people who aren't used to modding games. So it makes games feel like more of a living, breathing thing.
I actually have nothing against Steam's competitors. I like having all of my games in one place, but I welcome as many competitors as possible. More competition is never bad.
I just hate that I have to launch uPlay for Ubisoft games that I bought and play on Steam. Like...what the fuck? Two layers of DRM? That's not going to help you, Ubisoft. Hopefully South Park not using uPlay isn't an exception, but part of a larger trend.
I actually have nothing against Steam's competitors. I like having all of my games in one place, but I welcome as many competitors as possible. More competition is never bad.
I just hate that I have to launch uPlay for Ubisoft games that I bought and play on Steam. Like...what the fuck? Two layers of DRM? That's not going to help you, Ubisoft. Hopefully South Park not using uPlay isn't an exception, but part of a larger trend.
South Park wasn't developed internally so Obsidian was free to stick with Steamworks. In-house titles, on the other hand, are required to use Uplay.
Thanks for reminding me. Whenever I think of those times I feel like vomiting. Steam saved us all and I'll be forever loyal to Valve as a result
Sentenza
Member
Not to mention stealth drivers messing with your system (Starforce, TAGES, SecuROM), mandatory copy registrations, elaborate and arguably effective anti-copy security checks, etc.
EDIT: oh ,and mandatory disc checks/swaps even when everything was already installed on your HD.
Yeah, before the evil digital market emerged, everything was so nice.
CecilRousso
Member
This and that. While Steam does need improvements in several areas, it actually did save us from many other worse things since it actually started make a difference in the awful period of 2006-2007 (the dark ages of PC gaming) and not the glory days of 98-99.
Just activated Splinter Cell: Blacklist on uPlay. After downloading the 20 or so gig I have to manually install the game. I just wanted to give the game a quick try, now I'm sitting here waiting for the installation to finish. I mean, the first time I play a game on steam it has to go through the dx stuff and it can be fairly annoying but this is nothing compared to a full 20 gig installation. It's been running for about 5 minutes and not even 30% done.
Edit: So, it's done installing and I click on play. Now it start's up this ubisoft autopatch application and starts downloading a patch.
Edit 2: ffs, it's downloading another patch
Edit 3: Game is starting!
Edit: So, it's done installing and I click on play. Now it start's up this ubisoft autopatch application and starts downloading a patch.
Edit 2: ffs, it's downloading another patch
Edit 3: Game is starting!
Just so you know, if you don't like that experience, you're a steam fanboy. I learned that ITT.
breadtruck
Member
I originally was an "Origin hater" when EA dropped support from Steam, but that was mostly because I would have preferred everything on Steam just for convenience sake. I actually had some form or another of EA's download clients since the beginning... That was the only way to get the BF2 booster packs as I recall.
Origin is a fine service, and after that Humble Bundle a while back and purchasing BF4, I now use it almost daily. Similar to Steam, I don't even notice it running.
Origin is a fine service, and after that Humble Bundle a while back and purchasing BF4, I now use it almost daily. Similar to Steam, I don't even notice it running.
longdi
Banned
The only problem i have with Origin is that there are not enough games on it!
The loading and navigation is snappier than Steam (due to lack of games..)
The download is much faster than Steam (due to smaller no. users...)
Both Steam and Origin is rather transparent to me. I just click on the desktop icons to launch my games, old skool style.
The loading and navigation is snappier than Steam (due to lack of games..)
The download is much faster than Steam (due to smaller no. users...)
Both Steam and Origin is rather transparent to me. I just click on the desktop icons to launch my games, old skool style.
You and I live in a centralized place: earth
Valve is the reason we have Origin and Uplay. When Steam started it's insane populaity growth a couple of years ago and people started buying more PC games than ever (more older games are getting released on Steam and more devs and pubs are developing eclusive PC games and are focuing more on the PC port) Ubisoft and EA thought it was time to get more greedy and open their own stores, even though their games are probably still selling more games on Steam than their own services.
spindoctor
Member
I strongly prefer to have all my games on Steam. Sites like Direct2Drive and GFWL going down is proof that the worst case scenario of digital distribution can happen and you want to safeguard yourself from that as best you can by backing the winning horse, so to speak. And of course Steam dwarfs out other services in terms of the features it offers.
That said, I don't subscribe to the 'no steam no buy' mentality and I don't really understand those who do. There are way too many good games that never come to Steam but are absolutely worth playing. It would be a shame to miss out on them just because they're not available on my service of preference.
That said, I don't subscribe to the 'no steam no buy' mentality and I don't really understand those who do. There are way too many good games that never come to Steam but are absolutely worth playing. It would be a shame to miss out on them just because they're not available on my service of preference.