Support NeoGAF

[dreamcastmaster]

I know GAF loves porn and all but I do know a couple of relationship and marriages who got destroyed because of porn.

I doubt it, but its a convienient scapegoat to hide the real issue. Unless it was CP of course.

 

[trixx]

For some relationships it may be the end. Ad obviously not accurate but other than that I don't really see a problem with it.

Admittedly I'm trying to quit watching myself

 

[Aurongel]

Does no one else watch porn with their SO or something? I honestly don't even know if this is a contentious issue or whatever because I always thought that was a pretty normal thing.

 

[stupei]

A church near where I grew up had a Christian rock band that would play there a lot and they would sell shirts, hoodies, bumper stickers etc at their concerts that said simply "Porn Kills." There were a lot of kids at my school that dressed otherwise alternative that would wear them.

I thought they were an ironic joke the first time I saw them.

At least this has some kind of basis in a reality where I can almost understand the point they're making. It's reductive as hell and misses most of the underlying problems that would actually be at the root of most relationship problems, but at least it doesn't seem to suggest that watching porn will result in you committing suicide or harming others. (It turns out that was basically their argument. They also claimed there are more porn stores in America than McDonalds, which seems unlikely.)

 

[ronito]

Why those needs have to be satisfied by watching porn? Because it's easy? Because it makes the physical satisfaction bigger?

Ummm....because of several reasons? On demand availability. Even people with partners with compatible sex drives (good luck) aren't going to find their partner has an on demand sex drive. It gives people the thrill of the "new". It also allows people to explore fantasies and such, ones that perhaps their partner isn't willing or able to fulfill. Fantasy is a huge part of sexuality. For many women that manifests itself in erotica or romance novels. For most men it's porn. A healthy approach to sex leverages fantasy,it doesn't shut it down.

I don't think it's quite right to blame insecure people for their insecurities. Insecurity isn't always about a person not being able to deal with some outside force. Sometimes there really is a problem in culture too.

But are we blaming culture here? No. They're saying it's porn's problem. Also, if you wait for culture to change to be less insecure you're going to be insecure for a very long time. I don't deny for a minute that society creates insecurities, there's loads of it. However, I do think laying all that on porn is silly. It's like saying mexican food is responsible for obesity. Sure it can be a factor if you don't control yourself, but if you're obese even if you stop eating mexican all together, chances are you'll still be obese. But actually this is still different, it's like saying "I feel obese when my partner eats mexican."

 

[LakeEarth]

Porn doesn't kill love. Porn makes love more creative! </Scream reference>

 

[Airola]

Ummm....because of several reasons? On demand availability. Even people with partners with compatible sex drives (good luck) aren't going to find their partner has an on demand sex drive. It gives people the thrill of the "new". It also allows people to explore fantasies and such, ones that perhaps their partner isn't willing or able to fulfill. Fantasy is a huge part of sexuality. For many women that manifests itself in erotica or romance novels. For most men it's porn. A healthy approach to sex leverages fantasy,it doesn't shut it down.

Thanks for the reply.

The reason I replied to your post was that I want to question the need for porn to satisfy the sexual needs and to explore fantasies. And as much as I'm questioning your and the other pro-porn folk opinion, I am also questioning my (past and some present) opinions too.

I totally understand what it feels to have a huge sex drive and I have a deep personal history with porn too. I still have around 200 hardcore porn DVDs - used to have twice as much but I sold a huge part of the collection when I was in need of money - and hundreds of magazines (mostly retro and vintage stuff). I wrote my bachelor's thesis about porn parodies. And I've been quite an apologist for porn and erotica in both internet and real life discussions throughout the years. So, in that sense I understand where pro-porn people come from. Not that I'm totally anti-porn either but I think there really is something to really think about in the anti-porn folk's views, and not all of that is bullshit.


I don't only mean to question pro-porn opinions, but I want to see the reasonings behind those views now that my own views of it have started to change. It's interesting to read as your reply was something I could've very well written, say, 5 years ago. I used to take porn for granted when it comes to satisfying some sexual desires. Now when I'm seeing things from a different standpoint, I want to see how those explanations and reasonings look and feel like. It's also a kind of a way for me to explore my own past thoughts when I read the reasonings of people who are today what I used to be.

Also, seeing as I still have lots of pornography and I'm not completely out of that, I want to explore what keeps me hanging on to that stuff.

But are we blaming culture here? No. They're saying it's porn's problem. Also, if you wait for culture to change to be less insecure you're going to be insecure for a very long time.

Not sure I understand what you mean.
I try to reply.

It's true that waiting for something to change doesn't do anything for the problem. But just as in any other thing that might make people feel insecure, be it the super model culture of praising extra thin bodies or the entertainment culture making jokes in the expense of homosexuals or trans-folks or whatever else that makes people insecure, I think it's good to talk about the negative aspects of porn culture too.

Personally I think slut-shaming and mocking porn actors and actresses as whores is wrong too, so whenever porn criticism goes to that direction, I think it can do more harm than it does good. However, I think porn really is a big problem for millions of relationships and it's very important to deal with that too. And I think one of the worst possible ways to deal with it is to make people think it's a problem in their heads only.

I don't deny for a minute that society creates insecurities, there's loads of it. However, I do think laying all that on porn is silly. It's like saying mexican food is responsible for obesity. Sure it can be a factor if you don't control yourself, but if you're obese even if you stop eating mexican all together, chances are you'll still be obese. But actually this is still different, it's like saying "I feel obese when my partner eats mexican."

I'm sure those people behind the "porn kills love" banners are not laying all of that on porn. It's just that porn is more popular now than ever. I'm sure they know tons of other things that "hurts" or even "kills" love, but as porn has such a huge power to stimulate sensesmget people hooked and it's such a big trend, it's understandable that they are focusing on that aspect of things that create insecurity and problems in relationships. Just because you or I enjoy it, and just because there are couples to who it isn't a problem at all doesn't mean there isn't a problem with it.

That mexican allegory went way over my head. Especially that last sentence. I don't quite get how that can be compared to porn and insecurity. Comparing porn to mexican food is in my opinion essentially downplaying human relations into mere triviality.




All in all, I think porn deserves way better and serious discussions than what it usually gets.

 

[liquidtmd]

Some of the healthiest relationships I've ever been in are ones where I've watched porn with my S/O

 

[SliceSabre]

If porn is coming(lol) between two people's relationship there's deeper issues there that are not porn's fault.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

love wins...except against porn...

 

[jorma]

I don't like this masturbation-shaming.

 

[ronito]

Thanks for the reply.

The reason I replied to your post was that I want to question the need for porn to satisfy the sexual needs and to explore fantasies. And as much as I'm questioning your and the other pro-porn folk opinion, I am also questioning my (past and some present) opinions too.

I totally understand what it feels to have a huge sex drive and I have a deep personal history with porn too. I still have around 200 hardcore porn DVDs - used to have twice as much but I sold a huge part of the collection when I was in need of money - and hundreds of magazines (mostly retro and vintage stuff). I wrote my bachelor's thesis about porn parodies. And I've been quite an apologist for porn and erotica in both internet and real life discussions throughout the years. So, in that sense I understand where pro-porn people come from. Not that I'm totally anti-porn either but I think there really is something to really think about in the anti-porn folk's views, and not all of that is bullshit.


I don't only mean to question pro-porn opinions, but I want to see the reasonings behind those views now that my own views of it have started to change. It's interesting to read as your reply was something I could've very well written, say, 5 years ago. I used to take porn for granted when it comes to satisfying some sexual desires. Now when I'm seeing things from a different standpoint, I want to see how those explanations and reasonings look and feel like. It's also a kind of a way for me to explore my own past thoughts when I read the reasonings of people who are today what I used to be.

Also, seeing as I still have lots of pornography and I'm not completely out of that, I want to explore what keeps me hanging on to that stuff.



Not sure I understand what you mean.
I try to reply.

It's true that waiting for something to change doesn't do anything for the problem. But just as in any other thing that might make people feel insecure, be it the super model culture of praising extra thin bodies or the entertainment culture making jokes in the expense of homosexuals or trans-folks or whatever else that makes people insecure, I think it's good to talk about the negative aspects of porn culture too.

Personally I think slut-shaming and mocking porn actors and actresses as whores is wrong too, so whenever porn criticism goes to that direction, I think it can do more harm than it does good. However, I think porn really is a big problem for millions of relationships and it's very important to deal with that too. And I think one of the worst possible ways to deal with it is to make people think it's a problem in their heads only.



I'm sure those people behind the "porn kills love" banners are not laying all of that on porn. It's just that porn is more popular now than ever. I'm sure they know tons of other things that "hurts" or even "kills" love, but as porn has such a huge power to stimulate sensesmget people hooked and it's such a big trend, it's understandable that they are focusing on that aspect of things that create insecurity and problems in relationships. Just because you or I enjoy it, and just because there are couples to who it isn't a problem at all doesn't mean there isn't a problem with it.

That mexican allegory went way over my head. Especially that last sentence. I don't quite get how that can be compared to porn and insecurity. Comparing porn to mexican food is in my opinion essentially downplaying human relations into mere triviality.




All in all, I think porn deserves way better and serious discussions than what it usually gets.

It's not so much being pro-porn or anti-porn. Just because I don't think everyone who drinks a beer is a raging alcoholic doesn't make me pro-alcohol more than me thinking not everyone who looks at porn has terrible relationships and are terrible people makes me pro-porn. Porn is simply a thing. And like any thing it can be used proper or abused, just like alcohol, pain killers, gaming, guns, food, etc.

I've seen lives wrecked apart by porn. Or better said, by people's attitude to porn. Hell, I posted a thread on this very site about a woman who divorced her husband because she found he looked at porn. Then months later when she dating a new guy was head over heels in love with him found he looked at porn too. I've seen teens tear themselves apart over guilt because they like porn, even knew a few that contemplated suicide because of it. I'd attribute all these to an unhealthy attitude towards sex and porn.

I have a friend who's pretty well known in anti-porn circles. And her approach to teaching kids about porn is to make sure they never see it, to monitor their texts, monitor their TV watching, monitor their friends, monitor their internet use. To me that's setting your kids up to fail. How can you hope to instill your kids with the attitude to handle porn if you can't even have a mature discussion about sex?

It's not about pro/anti anything. It's about being honest not just with your partner but with yourself. Like that woman that divorced her husband because he had porn, she should've been like "OK, why does this really bother me?" And then discussed it with her spouse. Or being like "Maybe 200 DVDs of porn isn't all that great for me...." To me this whole "Porn kills love" thing is a child's solution to an adult situation.

 

[Airola]

It's not so much being pro-porn or anti-porn. Just because I don't think everyone who drinks a beer is a raging alcoholic doesn't make me pro-alcohol more than me thinking not everyone who looks at porn has terrible relationships and are terrible people makes me pro-porn. Porn is simply a thing. And like any thing it can be used proper or abused, just like alcohol, pain killers, gaming, guns, food, etc.

Fair enough for the pro and anti stuff.

What comes to the last sentence, that's true too, but of course an air pistol is different from a Magnum and beer is different from moonshine. There are things that are potentially more harmful than others. I can see porn being much more different thing for insecure women/men than oogling some lady/dude walking on street.

But yeah, aside from that I agree with you.

I've seen lives wrecked apart by porn. Or better said, by people's attitude to porn. Hell, I posted a thread on this very site about a woman who divorced her husband because she found he looked at porn.

Well, basically this could also mean that porn really does affect some women greatly if someone has wanted to get a divorce. I agree that a divorce because of that is quite an overreaction and should be dealt differently. But I also think we shouldn't downplay that woman's emotions. I think she has her right to be insecure.

Then months later when she dating a new guy was head over heels in love with him found he looked at porn too.

Tells how popular porn is. And popularity of course doesn't yet mean it's existence is a positive thing.

By the way, I couldn't find that thread. Tried searching all your threads, but didn't find it. Would've been interesting to read.

I've seen teens tear themselves apart over guilt because they like porn, even knew a few that contemplated suicide because of it. I'd attribute all these to an unhealthy attitude towards sex and porn.

Yeah, that's always a bad thing. Nothing should be such a big taboo that makes people want to make a suicide.

I have a friend who's pretty well known in anti-porn circles. And her approach to teaching kids about porn is to make sure they never see it, to monitor their texts, monitor their TV watching, monitor their friends, monitor their internet use. To me that's setting your kids up to fail. How can you hope to instill your kids with the attitude to handle porn if you can't even have a mature discussion about sex?

Yeah, that's a great example of porn as a taboo and how it can be unhealthy. I 100% agree with you on that. That's not only potentially hurtful to those kids but to herself too. She must be quite stressed out for that.

It's not about pro/anti anything. It's about being honest not just with your partner but with yourself. Like that woman that divorced her husband because he had porn, she should've been like "OK, why does this really bother me?" And then discussed it with her spouse. Or being like "Maybe 200 DVDs of porn isn't all that great for me...." To me this whole "Porn kills love" thing is a child's solution to an adult situation.

Honesty is a big part of it, yes. I'm sure majority of porn watching happens in secret. I guess in today's world where porn is such a big thing, couples should address this issue very early in their relationship as it's more and more likely to come up eventually at some point. It would be good for both of them to know where each other stands in watching and accepting it.

And yeah, if the porn usage of the spouse bothers her, one should think why it bothers her/him, although I think it's acceptable to just think that she/he doesn't want the partner to get that kind of satisfaction from others. At the same time the one who wants to watch porn should also really think why he/she needs exactly that. Goes both ways.

Personally, my girlfriend doesn't mind my collection. Or at least not the porn part of it. Perhaps she has some issues with how many movies and other collectibles I have in general, but she has accepted that too. She has bought some of my xxx magazines for me from flea markets, and when I used to buy those DVDs she would want to check out the covers for amusement even though she wasn't interested in seeing the actual movies. So my small change of heart towards this subject doesn't come from her being bothered by it. But I understand that my situation is relatively rare, and for many relationships it causes lots of conflicts.