Chuckie
Member
That is like saying a cop is responsible for the fact an escaped convict he arrested killed someone.
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The Walking Dead Season 6, Part 2 Sundays on AMC
- Thread starter SamuraiX-
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That is like saying a cop is responsible for the fact an escaped convict he arrested killed someone.
At some point, Bruce Wayne could've bought Arkham and installed proper security measures.
Or built an entire new asylum. With a moat. filled with laser-breathing alligators.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
No it isn't kind of a way. They could have went and killed everyone but they didn`t. There's a monumental difference between what they could have done and what they actually did.
Nameless
Member
To be clear I really was just playing Devil's advocate.
Leaving morality out of it the best choice would have been stripping Hilltop of its resources by force, kidnapping the doctor, and burning the place to the ground. Obviously that would require the group to break bad in a way they haven't by slaughtering "good people", but assessing things purely in terms of risk-reward, that was the move.
Bruce Wayne also bought a new face (well his company did) for Harvey Dent, put him through a rehabillitation program and Harvey still returned to his life of crime in The Dark Knight Returns. At some point Batman has to let go and let the flawed justice system take its course. Can't win 'em all.
Say what you want about Rick, he makes problems go away. Well, for the time being.
hey_monkey
Banned
Have never been a fan of Rick in show or comics. He swings to extremes and makes a lot of poor decisions.
Nameless
Member
Rick has been a pretty great leader since the prison fell. Especially how he kept the group together & moving when all those deaths and weeks living on the road had them teetering close to the breaking point.
He was 1000% right about the quarry; the plan going to shit twice had nothing to do with him or his decision making. And yeah, we as the audience know attacking The Saviours is going to end up very very badly, but based off the information he had at the time it was a logical call and most of the group agreed. Plus technically it was Daryl's idea, so blame Daryl for whatever happens next!
Rick hasn't been a fantastic leader since getting to Alexandria. The only reason things are going well for the group, for a couple of seasons at least, is due to the entire group being so strong. Rick acknowledged to the unconscious Carl that he had been wrong about the Alexandrians, and he had been at odds with his entire group (minus Carol) about that. If he had spent more time helping them and less time sniffing after Jessie, maybe there would be a point to make about Rick's leadership. Instead he just seems to do what he wants and luckily there are others close to him to help it come out alright.
I understand that the writers and Kirkman have elevated Rick to this impossible legend but the way things play out don't always support any of that. I'd say that there are several other characters that are as strong, and as dedicated to survival as Rick and they are also much more nuanced and interesting characters.
I understand that the writers and Kirkman have elevated Rick to this impossible legend but the way things play out don't always support any of that. I'd say that there are several other characters that are as strong, and as dedicated to survival as Rick and they are also much more nuanced and interesting characters.
Nameless
Member
Some initial strife with the Alexandrians was inevItable. There's always going to be an adjustment period when you slam together groups of polar opposites like that. It was a pretty massive culture shock and Rick wasn't the only one who had trouble acclimating to that little pocket of civilization in the wasteland and not operating at threat-level-red survival mode 24/7. Aside from Jesse his actions were usually the result of being hyper-protective(and yes a little paranoid) over the rest of the group, can you blame them with encounters they'd been having with other people? Plus let's not act like Alexandrians weren't putting his people at risk constantly with their ineptness.
They've been there for a while now and he's been the productive leader a lot longer than he was the psycho outsider.
They've been there for a while now and he's been the productive leader a lot longer than he was the psycho outsider.
I'm not sure why Morgan is being painted like a person that outright would never kill.
His point has always been: if you can avoid it, try to. In the church, he didn't oppose to fight the Saviors.. at all. Instead, he wanted to give them a chance to surrender. In other words, a choice. Yes, the plan would not have worked, but point is, he didn't want to murder people.
Remember what he did when he faced the Wolves for the first time (and they didn't yield)? He put them in a car, and ... sounded the claxon. To attract the zombies. To an unarmed persons. He didn't kill them, but he sure didn't shy away to put them in a pinch to prevent them to pursuing him. But for all he knew, he could have caused their demise.
Whenever someone says that sometimes you have to kill, he always silently move his head, accepting it. He 'gets it'. He is not delusional. He just don't believe that killing should be the default option.
Carol is reaching there, from the opposite point. Yes, she has killed out of a necessity. But after her fuck ups, she is now understanding that you have to draw a line at some point. Finally, the fact that we saw the comparison with the Governor in the church speech, gives credence to the point that the decision was not the correct one. And they will pay for it.
His point has always been: if you can avoid it, try to. In the church, he didn't oppose to fight the Saviors.. at all. Instead, he wanted to give them a chance to surrender. In other words, a choice. Yes, the plan would not have worked, but point is, he didn't want to murder people.
Remember what he did when he faced the Wolves for the first time (and they didn't yield)? He put them in a car, and ... sounded the claxon. To attract the zombies. To an unarmed persons. He didn't kill them, but he sure didn't shy away to put them in a pinch to prevent them to pursuing him. But for all he knew, he could have caused their demise.
Whenever someone says that sometimes you have to kill, he always silently move his head, accepting it. He 'gets it'. He is not delusional. He just don't believe that killing should be the default option.
Carol is reaching there, from the opposite point. Yes, she has killed out of a necessity. But after her fuck ups, she is now understanding that you have to draw a line at some point. Finally, the fact that we saw the comparison with the Governor in the church speech, gives credence to the point that the decision was not the correct one. And they will pay for it.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
without rick they'd all be dead countless times. This is a fact, in the end. I couldn't point to many scenarios and things that happened. He took it upon himself during the walker invasion to go into the frey. No one else would have done it, they would have turtled for a while and died.
Other people are good fighters, that's true. But none of them are leaders. And I personally think none of them are willing to do as much as rick to survive, as we've seen time and time again.
More_Badass
Member
No, they talked about this on the Talking Dead. He didn't sound the horn to attract zombies. He did it to see if there were any zombies around, and make sure the area was safe for the wolves in the car
That does not make any sense, since he didn't even stay long enough to verify it. But if that's the intention, fair enough.
Which is a problem in these kind of shows, sometimes is hard to tell if the writers are being clever, or it's just you expecting them to be. Hope that at least in the case of Tara's "revelation", it amounts to something.
Nameless
Member
Yup. Shane always used to grill him over not being able to make the hard choices and that's exactly what he's doing. And make no mistake these have been some impossible choices where all available decisions are usually fucked in different ways.
Thing is, I can't think of too many examples either. Yes he went into the walker horde but he did that out of that same grief that caused him to act recklessly in the prison after Lori died. Ultimately, they all went out there and yes, they will cite Rick as the reason. I realize he is the de facto leader but everyone in his group is strong as hell. But when they've needed him to be something other than a stone cold killer, he's not been that strong and has at times been a hindrance.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Which is why it looks like Maggie is taking over the diplomat part. Rick does not have the patience to deal with people he does not like.
Theanine3D
Member
<3
Best actress on the show.
So anxious to see what happens with her in tomorrow's episode.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
rick is the straw that stirs the drink. You're assuming that if he wasn't leader everyone else would be fine but they wouldn't be. Rick isn't perfect. They did an entire arc on how he wasn't a perfect leader a few seasons ago. But nobody else ever steps up because no one wants to take responsibility or make the huge decisions. They just want to be.
I could think of a lot of examples I'm just too lazy list. And I'm pretty sure every time shit hit the fan the person to step up most was rick. Look at what he and carl did for Gabriel! He toughened up the rest of the alexandrians most recently.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
Still can't believe they had her shoot a little girl... one of the very few times a television show has ever honestly shocked me.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
That was one of the few moments I just do not like on television, the killing of a child. It just is not one of the things I want to see.
God of Gamblers
Banned
Anyone else think priest gabe should keep his uniform and start using double shotguns as his trademark? He can't go back now, he is now a stone cold killer.
Anyone else think priest gabe should keep his uniform and start using double shotguns as his trademark? He can't go back now, he is now a stone cold killer.
I kind of think that would be badass but when he took out that one guy after the bible verse, he was still extremely uncool. I don't know if he can pull it off.
God of Gamblers
Banned
Nameless
Member
The "In my father's house are many mansions." line had me considering reconversion got a half second. Unfortunately now that they've made us like Gabe his chances of getting got have risen exponentially.
Carol invested so much EXP into stealth,melee, and guns that her awareness stat is low. This is her second time getting captured. Maggie's too.
Carol invested so much EXP into stealth,melee, and guns that her awareness stat is low. This is her second time getting captured. Maggie's too.
hey_monkey
Banned
Yep. He does pretty well when it's committee or when he listens, but often the realization comes long after he should have listened to advice. Which, while realistic, doesn't make his constant two-steps-forward, three-back evolution less frustrating from a narrative standpoint. And part of it is the writing itself, especially in the comics, where some of the things have to be more clearly spelled out, so you get a lot of OH BUT WAIT! NOW I KNOW HOW TO LEAD moments over and over again whereas in the show we get some of that, uh, reflection (I guess) and then changes but the changes and adjustments are not always necessarily for the better.
I hope that's not a comic spoiler, since it just covers development of Rick as we've seen in the show but mentions the way it's presented differently in the different medium... (don't ban me, bro).
eta: and it's not that I hate Rick or anything, I just find his development frustrating. I really do like the development of some of the other characters, though -- especially in the show, honestly. I think they've done that well. Being forced to keep so many around because of the nature of television (I assume that's why, anyway) has let them really grow in fascinating ways.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
New episode tonight!
Tonight's episode was written by ? and was directed by Billy Gierhart (who last directed 5.7 "Crossed", the one where Rick and Co. take hostages from the hospital in a plan to get back Beth and Carol).
The guest stars on tonight's Talking Dead are:
Melissa McBride (Carol)
Paul Feig (writer, director)
and a surprise cast member!
Tonight's episode was written by ? and was directed by Billy Gierhart (who last directed 5.7 "Crossed", the one where Rick and Co. take hostages from the hospital in a plan to get back Beth and Carol).
The guest stars on tonight's Talking Dead are:
Melissa McBride (Carol)
Paul Feig (writer, director)
and a surprise cast member!
HighResTomato
Member
He killed Beth, now he wants to finish off Carol :'(
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
<3
The best thing about her is that she doesn't look menacing or dangerous at all. Like the apocalypse would eat her alive. But they probably don't know that she'd carve a piece of wood and stick it in them....
Dunedain_Ranger
Member
I'm back walker gaf. I do apologize for the spoiler tagging it wasnt meant to be rude towards anyone. Somewhere down the line I just forgot to put comic spolilers in front probably due to being excited about the previously watched episode. Can't wait for tonight's episode !!
So Carol should be safe, the surprise cast member is usually the dead one, right? I hope it's not Maggie.
If I had to pick an established character to kill off I'd make it Rosita or Eugene, I don't care much about either of them but it's probably going to be Gabriel, he finally got over being a useless whiner, so they'll probably kill him.
The Artisan
Member
possible spoiler
does anyone besides me think that they're spitting Andrea's character arc into two? Sasha is a sharp shooter, which Andrea is in the comics and Michonne is Rick's bounce back love interest, which Andrea also is in the comics
Future PhaZe
Member
dark as hell episode
really intense
really intense
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Carol is OP tier. It would take a lot to kill her. I have zero concern.
Zero concern.
Zero concern :s.
Zero concern.
Zero concern :s.
BlackGhost
Banned
Fuck, you've jinxed her :/
Ultra Numb
Member
Yes.
Since then Gimple has been pretty safe with character deaths.
Hershel, Beth, Bob, Tyreese, Noah, Deanna all have relevance to certain degree [Hershel being at the top] but none come close to Atlanta Survivor territory.
Escape Goat
Member
More and more I feel Carol is not long for this world. I think theyre crazy enough to do it.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Welcome back!
So Carol should be safe, the surprise cast member is usually the dead one, right? I hope it's not Maggie.
Sometimes yes, but surprise cast members don't necessarily always have their respective characters killed off - it's also possible that the inclusion of a surprise cast member is just a red herring to prevent people from suspecting one of the announced guests.
DangerMouse
Member
Last week's ep was another fantastic one, can't wait for tonight's.
BlackGhost
Banned
Mcbride and a surprise cast member tonight.
*pukes
Speculation
*pukes
Speculation
Personally can't see Maggie actually making it to have her baby, not sayin it'll happen tonight. Or it ever will
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Pretty hyped for tonight. Hopefully no one dies and carol and maggie just have a fun imprisonment road trip before being reunited
7 more mins.
7 more mins.
SneakySneaks
Member
Probably Alicia Witt, they usually have guest stars on, like with Ethan Embry earlier this season.
RellyRell28
Banned
Just finished a episode of Fuller House just in time to catch this episode.
RiderKairuu
Member
I hope there's some more of that great tension this ep.
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