Support NeoGAF

[Bandit1]

Seems to be a bit of discussion about whether Rick and co. made the right decision to strike first and kill everyone in the compound. I think they did. Obviously everything didn't quite go as planned, but it was their best option. Going back to the prison days, Rick tried to negotiate with the Governor to no avail, and the group ended up losing Andrea, Hershel, and Merle. In hindsight, sneaking into Woodbury at night and killing the Governor and his henchmen would have been very advantageous, (assuming they could pick out the bad guys) and theoretically would have allowed them to keep the prison.

Fast forward to the Saviors - Daryl, Abraham, and Sasha saw firsthand that the Saviors aimed to take everything they had, and they even told them that they usually kill one person to show they mean business. Hilltop expressed their problem with the group, so the people of Alexandria really only have three choices:

1. Kill them all in their sleep.
2. Try to negotiate with them.
3. Stay home and hope they don't find you.

2 and 3 have pretty obvious drawbacks: you try to meet with them, you stick your neck out to some people who you know are pretty bad guys and you lose an element of surprise. Or if you just hope to avoid them you limit your trading with Hilltop, and run the risk of them finding and launching a surprise attack on Alexandria.

We still have to see how it plays out, but it seems like the "kill everyone in their sleep" route was their best option.

 

[Escape Goat]

Breaking Bad was focused around Jessie and Walter. Pretty much anything that happened was in relation to them, and they had a defined trajectory. There weren't sub-plots with Saul going out on dates, Saul effectively ceased to exist pretty much when Walt or Jessie weren't around. Same with Mike barring a motivation scene or two with his family.
Walking Dead is an ensemble cast - sure Rick may be the center - but there have been entire sections of the show where Rick isn't interacting with large segments of the main cast. If you really think that they had time to deal in depth with Rick and Jessie, Rick and Michonne, Carl and Enid, Abe and Sasha and Rosita, Carol and Tobin?, Tara and Denise, Aaron and Eric while also giving screen time to all the other cast, without it bogging down then I think you may be expecting too much. Sometimes you suddenly realize that one of the main cast hasn't really done anything for a couple of episodes. If they didn't show Rosita ever again in the show - I doubt it would barely register to me until much later, because there are already too many characters to keep track of.

Ive always wanted the show to focus on one or two characters outside of the group more often. For example send Rick, Carl, Eugene and Abraham out on a mission to get some toilet paper or antibiotics or whatever. We have the setup for a bottle episode. Rick gets into negotiations with another group. Rick gets injured/sent into a coma and Carl is in charge. Now its up to Carl to step up and attempt to complete the mission thats consistent with his character. Let Carl grow as a character by putting him into a role hes not comfortable with. By putting him at odds with his dad or with Eugene being a puss. Hes been wearing his dads sheriffs hat for 6 seasons but why? Now its time to earn it.


Screw the B plot altogether. No flashbacks or rehashing old themes and coming to the same conclusions. Let the characters solve problems using their unique talents in a way that advance their indvidual stories and with ample screen time to explore interactions with others.

 

[mujun]

Its still scummy. Heath and Glenn were disgusted by what they did. Negan's group has every right to retaliate

That one dude even said Rick as was worse than the Saviors.

Given the info that Rick had on the Saviors, what option did he have in how to deal with Negan's group?

Let them come to Alexandria?
Leave Alexandria?
Bargain with them?
Approach them and initiate a "fair fight"?
Raid the compound and leave the sleeping people alive?

 

[MK_768]

Lol. Some people really did take last episode hard.

Too many people reacting to it as if it were to happen in our reality.

Which is funny cause in war mankind is known to attack when the enemy is sleeping.

 

[rainking187]

Seems to be a bit of discussion about whether Rick and co. made the right decision to strike first and kill everyone in the compound. I think they did. Obviously everything didn't quite go as planned, but it was their best option. Going back to the prison days, Rick tried to negotiate with the Governor to no avail, and the group ended up losing Andrea, Hershel, and Merle. In hindsight, sneaking into Woodbury at night and killing the Governor and his henchmen would have been very advantageous, (assuming they could pick out the bad guys) and theoretically would have allowed them to keep the prison.

Fast forward to the Saviors - Daryl, Abraham, and Sasha saw firsthand that the Saviors aimed to take everything they had, and they even told them that they usually kill one person to show they mean business. Hilltop expressed their problem with the group, so the people of Alexandria really only have three choices:

1. Kill them all in their sleep.
2. Try to negotiate with them.
3. Stay home and hope they don't find you.

2 and 3 have pretty obvious drawbacks: you try to meet with them, you stick your neck out to some people who you know are pretty bad guys and you lose an element of surprise. Or if you just hope to avoid them you limit your trading with Hilltop, and run the risk of them finding and launching a surprise attack on Alexandria.

We still have to see how it plays out, but it seems like the "kill everyone in their sleep" route was their best option.

Comparing them to the Governor is why I kind of had a problem with this. After the Governor took off they took a lot of the Woodbury people to the prison with them. A lot of people had nothing to do with what the Governor did. In this situation though they started killing people in their sleep based on very little information. It's possible every person they killed was a bad guy, but they really had no way of knowing that.

 

[Ronabo]

Carol leaving a cookie on the boys grave was really nice.

Or really mean

 

[border]

This show isn't really that smart. I kinda doubt that the writers intended the murder-spree at the Saviors' compound to really be that grey or morally nuanced. The lingering shots of the execution Polaroids are meant to convince you that Rick's group is morally right, and you aren't really meant to think about the fact that the Alexandrians did not have that information going in.

 

[RDreamer]

This show isn't really that smart. I kinda doubt that the writers intended the murder-spree at the Saviors' compound to really be that grey or morally nuanced. The lingering shots of the execution Polaroids are meant to convince you that Rick's group is morally right, and you aren't really meant to think about the fact that the Alexandrians did not have that information going in.

What do you mean you're not meant to think about that? Someone literally mentions this is the same sort of thing the governor did in the show.

I mean the show isn't that smart, you're right. That's why they mention that literally rather than letting the viewer come to that conclusion.

 

[HadesGigas]

This show isn't really that smart. I kinda doubt that the writers intended the murder-spree at the Saviors' compound to really be that grey or morally nuanced. The lingering shots of the execution Polaroids are meant to convince you that Rick's group is morally right, and you aren't really meant to think about the fact that the Alexandrians did not have that information going in.

That's like.. literally what they intended. Rick's speech rallying everyone in the church mirrored the Governor's speech about how they had to kill everyone in the prison. The camera even focused on Tara during parts of it, to further remind you "hey she heard this before and that didn't go so well for everyone she cared about".

 

[More_Badass]

This show isn't really that smart. I kinda doubt that the writers intended the murder-spree at the Saviors' compound to really be that grey or morally nuanced. The lingering shots of the execution Polaroids are meant to convince you that Rick's group is morally right, and you aren't really meant to think about the fact that the Alexandrians did not have that information going in.

No, the actors themselves talked about how Rick was essentially retreading the Governor, with his "Kill them all" speech and convincing a community to preemptively attack another group. The show was definitely drawing parallels between Rick's actions and The Governor. And even if the people they killed were definite bad guys, that doesn't change the fact that what they did was definitely morally taxing and crossing a certain line, as even Rick seemed affected by killing people in their sleep.

 

[Hidden One]

Like Glenn Rick went the entire show without killing a single person before popping his cherry with a double kill..

From then on the guy has become perhaps the most prolific killer eastern seaboard has ever seen--just absolutely bathing in blood. I'd be shocked if Negan's body count was much higher. Not saying Glenn will ever get to that level, but we saw it was in fact easier the second time. It'll be interesting to see just how far he goes to get Maggie back now that taking lives has sorta been demystified.

I love how the dumbass with shotgun just sat there and let him kill his partner and then turn around and kill him.

 

[border]

What do you mean you're not meant to think about that? Someone literally mentions this is the same sort of thing the governor did in the show.

I mean the show isn't that smart, you're right. That's why they mention that literally rather than letting the viewer come to that conclusion.

That's like.. literally what they intended. Rick's speech rallying everyone in the church mirrored the Governor's speech about how they had to kill everyone in the prison. The camera even focused on Tara during parts of it, to further remind you "hey she heard this before and that didn't go so well for everyone she cared about".

No, the actors themselves talked about how Rick was essentially retreading the Governor, with his "Kill them all" speech and convincing a community to preemptively attack another group. The show was definitely drawing parallels between Rick's actions and The Governor. And even if the people they killed were definite bad guys, that doesn't change the fact that what they did was definitely morally taxing and crossing a certain line, as even Rick seemed affected by killing people in their sleep.

I submit, I was wrong! I'd forgotten most of the Church discussion. During that scene I was mostly just struck by how bizarre it was that they were going to discuss committing mass-murder for hire, and chose to do it in a church without any objection from Gabriel. Though I still think the execution Polaroids are meant to be the Alexandrians' "Get Out of Jail Free" cards. I suppose the repercussions felt incoming weeks will really show us how the writers intended us to interpret Rick/Maggie's decision.

 

[mujun]

This show isn't really that smart. I kinda doubt that the writers intended the murder-spree at the Saviors' compound to really be that grey or morally nuanced. The lingering shots of the execution Polaroids are meant to convince you that Rick's group is morally right, and you aren't really meant to think about the fact that the Alexandrians did not have that information going in.

They knew that Negan's people always kill someone when they first meet a group as a message and kill someone if you ask questions, right?

 

[border]

They knew that Negan's people always kill someone when they first meet a group as a message and kill someone if you ask questions, right?

Playing devil's advocate I suppose you could chalk that up as somewhat ambiguous since it's not really clear if that's Negan's policy, or just a negotiation tactic employed by that particular group of biker assholes.

To me personally though, it does seem like they wanted Negan to seem like an unsympathetic psycho asshole from the very start. The way they unequivocally state that "Everything of yours now belongs to us" suggests that this is a very black and white moral equation and that the viewer should not really be wondering about who's right and who's wrong.

 

[Piston Hyundai]

My favorite part of this half of the season has been the conversations between the Saviors and other survivors. Biker guy was menacing as hell and Action Bronson calling the shithead Hilltop guy a needledick was hilarious.

Suffice it to say that Daryl killing them all as soon as he can isn't going over so well with me.

 

[mujun]

Playing devil's advocate I suppose you could chalk that up as somewhat ambiguous since it's not really clear if that's Negan's policy, or just a negotiation tactic employed by that particular group of biker assholes.

To me personally though, it does seem like they wanted Negan to seem like an unsympathetic psycho asshole from the very start. The way they unequivocally state that "Everything of yours now belongs to us" suggests that this is a very black and white moral equation and that the viewer should not really be wondering about who's right and who's wrong.

I agree that it seems like they are setting Negan and his group up as irredeemable. I think the wondering lies in how well each person adjusts to the new world. How we deal with a psycho in the world we live in versus how we would in a post apocalyptic one are very different.

 

[border]

My favorite part of this half of the season has been the conversations between the Saviors and other survivors.

The best and most memorable writing/acting in the last 1-2 seasons has always come from the representatives of opposing survivor factions. Gareth from Terminus was awesome. The Terminus dude that Carol/Tyrese captured was great -- I loved how routine the survival bullshit had become for him ("I just don't feel like doing this shit today!") The Wolf that Morgan imprisoned was a bit over-the-top but still pretty enjoyable.

I agree that it seems like they are setting Negan and his group up as irredeemable.

Yeah, I feel like bringing up Newbury in the Church meeting isn't really meant to draw a straight parallel between Rick and The Governor. It's illuminating and thought-provoking in some sense, but ultimately they hand-wave away the similarities between the two characters because the Saviors are so frequently shown to be rogues and marauders.

 

[mujun]

Yeah, I feel like bringing up Newbury in the Church meeting isn't really meant to draw a straight parallel between Rick and The Governor. It's illuminating and thought-provoking in some sense, but ultimately they hand-wave away the similarities between the two characters because the Saviors are so frequently shown to be rogues and marauders.

I wonder what direction they are planning on going with Rick.

They have definitely shown him to be a full-fledged psycho at various points over the last season or two.

Maybe something will happen to Michonne or Carl and he'll go over the edge completely.

 

[8BitsAtATime]

Given the info that Rick had on the Saviors, what option did he have in how to deal with Negan's group?

Let them come to Alexandria?
Leave Alexandria?
Bargain with them?
Approach them and initiate a "fair fight"?
Raid the compound and leave the sleeping people alive?

His plan failed and it's just going to piss Negan off that his people are dead. They should have done more snooping around (like what Negan looks like) before going "hey our new friends that we just made don't really like you so we going to kill you and your people" If I remember right they even took more stuff from The Hilltop than what the Saviors normally take.

It's going to be hard to feel bad when Negan retaliates because Rick's group has killed around 30-40 of Negan's people

 

[mujun]

His plan failed and it's just going to piss Negan off that his people are dead. They should have done more snooping around (like what Negan looks like) before going "hey our new friends that we just made don't really like you so we going to kill you and your people" If I remember right they even took more stuff from The Hilltop than what the Saviors normally take.

It's going to be hard to feel bad when Negan retaliates because Rick's group has killed around 30-40 of Negan's people

I'm sure they had no idea that Negan's operation is like 200+ people.

They are used to living in a world where communities are rare and lucky if they are made up of more than 20 people.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Johnny Depp’s Fake Decapitated Head Was on The Walking Dead

As producer Greg Nicotero told EW, one of the decapitated heads seen in Sunday's episode was based off the Deppster himself: "I think we had sculpted an emaciated version of a dummy head for something and we used Johnny Depp’s head as a basis just for a clay sculpt."

 

[neorej]

I wonder what direction they are planning on going with Rick.

They have definitely shown him to be a full-fledged psycho at various points over the last season or two.

Maybe something will happen to Michonne or Carl and he'll go over the edge completely.

At this point, Rick is like Optimus Prime to me; he means well, and he has the best intentions, but he's a goddamn psychopath once you cross him or if he deems you a threat.

 

[thecouncil]

*laying in bed, staring at ceiling, 24 hours after watching the episode*
...
why did Carol kiss that man?

like, how out of left field was that one?

 

[RatskyWatsky]

*laying in bed, staring at ceiling, 24 hours after watching the episode*
...
why did Carol kiss that man?

like, how out of left field was that one?

I seem to recall a bit of hinting at Carol + Tobin in previous episodes, but it was very subtle.

 

[SamuraiX-]

I seem to recall a bit of hinting at Carol + Tobin in previous episodes, but it was very subtle.

Definitely. Back in Season 5 when the group first arrived at Alexandria, Tobin's introduction to the audience and to Carol had a little winkwink, nudgenudge in there. Never actually thought anything would have come of it though. hah

 

[neorej]

*laying in bed, staring at ceiling, 24 hours after watching the episode*
...
why did Carol kiss that man?

like, how out of left field was that one?

There's been some lingering shy "I like you, you like me?" looks and bodylanguage over the past episodes. And c'mon, she's been on a dry spell for ages now. Momma needs some sugar!

 

[Funky Papa]

Beatings will continue until compliance improves.

 

[8BitsAtATime]

I'm sure they had no idea that Negan's operation is like 200+ people.

They are used to living in a world where communities are rare and lucky if they are made up of more than 20 people.

Maybe he could have asked the people from Hilltop. One could say that maybe the Hilltop set them up?

 

[JoeNut]

If rick and co. were the bad guys then they would have just obliterated hilltop and taken everything for themselves, they were defending themselves with spears ffs it wouldn't have been hard

 

[Funky Papa]

If rick and co. were the bad guys then they would have just obliterated hilltop and taken everything for themselves, they were defending themselves with spears ffs it wouldn't have been hard

I believe the Governor also took people in from time to time.

The biggest difference is that Rick only resorts to violence when they feel directly threatened, whereas the Governor was a cruel asshat (waddap, Walker UFC?) and took no chances, but they are kind of hammering the point.

 

[HadesGigas]

If rick and co. were the bad guys then they would have just obliterated hilltop and taken everything for themselves, they were defending themselves with spears ffs it wouldn't have been hard

Rick did basically suggest that as an option/threat once things initially weren't going anywhere, when Gregory was all "we're doing fine here", and Jesus wanted more time to convince him Rick's crew can help.

 

[More_Badass]

Rick did basically suggest that as an option/threat once things initially weren't going anywhere, when Gregory was all "we're doing fine here", and Jesus wanted more time to convince him Rick's crew can help.

Kind of makes you think how we'd perceive the group if we didn't perceive them as the protagonists/"good guys". The fact that Rick even suggested that says a lot about him

I mean, this is the same guy who was planning a hostile takeover of a peaceful community who was helping them

 

[Sadist]

Maybe he could have asked the people from Hilltop. One could say that maybe the Hilltop set them up?

Nah. Hilltop is in the dark as well. Why would they agree on gving half of their provisions to Alexandria in the first place? They want the Saviors gone. They chose the lesser evil.

As for Negan... did anyone in the Hilltop actually meet him? They met his goons...

 

[mujun]

Maybe he could have asked the people from Hilltop. One could say that maybe the Hilltop set them up?

They did right?

That's what that whole map drawing scene was about.

 

[Kinyou]

Did the guns always sound that impressive? Feel like this episode really took it up a notch.

 

[Sendero]

Kind of makes you think how we'd perceive the group if we didn't perceive them as the protagonists/"good guys". The fact that Rick even suggested that says a lot about him

I mean, this is the same guy who was planning a hostile takeover of a peaceful community who was helping them

That was exactly the point when the discussion started.

They are the de-facto good guys, because the series spin around them. But if you were an inhabitant in that world, and heard their exploits (at this point).. would you really want to meet them?

And if they ever met another group that had done similar things.. would they be comfortable accepting the others.. knowing that when things don't go their way, they would try to overtake and kill Rick's team if truly needed?


BTW, it was a rethorical discussion, since we all as spectators know that the Saviors are the bad guys. The show has never hinted otherwise. But it wasn't as clear cut for Rick's group. No one besides Morgan was against the immediate attack. But more importantly, no one even asked questions. They were blindly following him.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

COMIC BOOK TALK

Spoiler

When i seen the Pictures of the Heads bashed in by Negan's bat, it wasn't something they liked. It was a reminder that if you don't abide by Negan's rules, you will face that same fate.

That was my interputation as they left it up to the viewer to decide what those pictures meant. It will become clear when Negan is introduced and if it follows the comics then... yeah..

 

[More_Badass]

That was exactly the point when the discussion started.

They are the de-facto good guys, because the series spin around them. But if you were an inhabitant in that world, and heard their exploits (at this point).. would you really want to meet them?

And if they ever met another group that had done similar things.. would they be comfortable accepting the others.. knowing that when things don't go their way, they would try to overtake and kill Rick's team if truly needed?

Continuing that discussion, would you feel safe around a man who goes into dead-eyed violent rages the way Rick does?

 

[neorej]

That was exactly the point when the discussion started.

They are the de-facto good guys, because the series spin around them. But if you were an inhabitant in that world, and heard their exploits (at this point).. would you really want to meet them?

And if they ever met another group that had done similar things.. would they be comfortable accepting the others.. knowing that when things don't go their way, they would try to overtake and kill Rick's team if truly needed?


BTW, it was a rethorical discussion, since we all as spectators know that the Saviors are the bad guys. The show has never hinted otherwise. But it wasn't as clear cut for Rick's group. No one besides Morgan was against the immediate attack. But more importantly, no one even asked questions. They were blindly following him.

I'd join them. In a zombie-infested world, they seem like the best chance to survive.

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

COMIC BOOK TALK

Spoiler

When i seen the Pictures of the Heads bashed in by Negan's bat, it wasn't something they liked. It was a reminder that if you don't abide by Negan's rules, you will face that same fate.

That was my interputation as they left it up to the viewer to decide what those pictures meant. It will become clear when Negan is introduced and if it follows the comics then... yeah..

MOD POWER ABUSE/COMIC BOOK TALK

Spoiler

I don't remember them showing Negan , let alone a baseball bat?? Did I miss something?

 

[embalm]

We are supposed to compare Rick to the Governor for sure.

When confronted with a group with similar interests:
Governor - When he discovered an outside group of military soldiers, he arranged to ambush and kill them to take their military supplies.

Rick - When he discovers Hilltop, he arranges a meeting and despite the mistrust he allows his people to work with him in arranging a trade agreement.

When confronted with an openly hostile group:
Governor - Disregard that the Governor struck first by kidnapping Glen and Maggie. When Woodbury was attacked the Governor declared war, he forced children to become soldiers, and ignored all possible roads to a peaceful resolution, despite having favorable military and trade situations.

Rick - His people were attacked by Negan's crew on the road. Negan has also openly attacked and unfairly taxed his new allies in Hilltop. He has no room to negotiate with group such as this and his only advantage is in an ambush. Yet before he declares open war, he has an open discussion about it with his community, they not only decide it is the right course as a group, but they are also free to stay behind and not take part.



Rick has lost everything over and over again because some other leader is able to make the hard decision. Rick has lived and learned. This time Rick makes a hard decision.

 

[Funky Papa]

MOD POWER ABUSE/COMIC BOOK TALK

Spoiler

I don't remember them showing Negan , let alone a baseball bat?? Did I miss something?

There's a reason for that. You were unfortunate enough to quote it just as I edited his message to add tags. I also edited out your message with proper labeling so other people don't fall for it.

Seriously, we just banned six people for unlabeled/untagged comic book talk. Be fucking considerate to other posters.

 

[Kinyou]

COMIC BOOK TALK

Spoiler

I don't remember them showing Negan , let alone a baseball bat?? Did I miss something?

COMIC BOOK TALK

Spoiler

I don't remember anything specific either. But considering it were always bashed in heads of what looked like non-zombies the connection could be made.

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

There's a reason for that. You were unfortunate enough to quote it just as I edited his message to add tags.

Seriously, we just banned six people for unlabeled/untagged comic book talk. Be fucking considerate to other posters.

Good god almighty. Thanks to you guys for doing your best to moderate this thread. I just can't believe how hard it is for some people to not use spoiler tags.

For someone who hasn't read the comics and doesn't plan to, it is very frustrating when people talk about them without spoilers like it is common knowledge. I beg all comic readers to please spoiler tag even the smallest of things.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Continuing that discussion, would you feel safe around a man who goes into dead-eyed violent rages the way Rick does?

You know what gets me? When fans cheer that stuff on. To me Rick is an absolute psycho but because he's the hero of the show his rages seem acceptable to the point where Morgan's "no killing" rule is seen as lunacy.

But I think the show is setting up Rick as a psycho badass for a good reason: the fall has a bigger impact from a greater height.

 

[Funky Papa]

TBH, Morgan's "no killing" rule is pure lunacy in a world of Governors, Wolves and Saviours.

Still, remember when everybody was pointing guns at each other every few minutes? For all the bad writing in this show, S1 had the worst of it.

 

[Sendero]

Continuing that discussion, would you feel safe around a man who goes into dead-eyed violent rages the way Rick does?

I'd join them. In a zombie-infested world, they seem like the best chance to survive.

It depends, and that's the interesting part.

If you are by yourself(or have a son), and not Jesus? Sure. Just keep your head low, and contribute in what you can to improve the situation. If you are the leader of a sizable group and are responsible for their well being? No chance. I would avoid it as much as possible. Everyone is forgetting what happened when Woodbury and Prison tried to make peace. There can be only 1 sheriff in town.

If you have a wife or a daughter that happens to be pretty? Well, ask Pete what he thinks.

We are supposed to compare Rick to the Governor for sure.

When confronted with a group with similar interests:
Governor - When he discovered an outside group of military soldiers, he arranged to ambush and kill them to take their military supplies.

Rick - When he discovers Hilltop, he arranges a meeting and despite the mistrust he allows his people to work with him in arranging a trade agreement.

And when early negotiations failed, Rick -unabashedly- said something like "we came for supplies. And we will get them (one way or another)". Jesus then had to intervene.

Another point that sometimes is forgotten, is that Negan base(s) are not that close to Alexandria. I mean, Hilltop is like a day away already. So, even if they were a threat, it was not an immediate one. In the past, Rick has had to kill humans mostly in self defense, on the spur of the moment.

But here, is a deliberate plan to preemptively kill people, that apparently don't even know about their existence. Quite a difference, I think.

 

[More_Badass]

TBH, Morgan's "no killing" rule is pure lunacy in a world of Governors, Wolves and Saviours.

Still, remember when everybody was pointing guns at each other every few minutes? For all the bad writing in this show, S1 had the worst of it.

But the rule grow out of his time of mindless crazed killing. He essentially was a Wolf or a Savior; he literally had a town full of traps and killed everyone and everything. It's not like he abstained from killing from the start. He already descended into the worse kind of madness that this apocalypse can produce, and came back

 

[Surfinn]

But the rule grow out of his time of mindless crazed killing. He essentially was a Wolf or a Savior; he literally had a town full of traps and killed everyone and everything. It's not like he abstained from killing from the start. He already descended into the worse kind of madness that this apocalypse can produce, and came back

I think the point he was trying to make though was that regardless of what Morgan's become, he's living in a fantasy land where you can completely abstain from killing and survive.

Which I completely agree with. So much of what's happened (especially with the Wolves) was because of Morgan's terrible decisions. So many have died due to his beliefs.

You can "come back", definitely, and I enjoy that concept, but the irony is that Morgan's character progression has done more harm than good. It's a wonder he's even alive, and under these conditions; I don't think he would be, in reality. He'd have gone a LONG time ago.

 

[near]

You know what gets me? When fans cheer that stuff on. To me Rick is an absolute psycho but because he's the hero of the show his rages seem acceptable to the point where Morgan's "no killing" rule is seen as lunacy.

But I think the show is setting up Rick as a psycho badass for a good reason: the fall has a bigger impact from a greater height.

I love super satan Rick, covered in blood and clicking he's neck, why? Because Rick has evolved from a sheriff who couldn't accept killing the walking dead to an experienced survivalist leader who moderates when to murder. In the universe they inhabit, it's been highlighted time and time again that in order to survive and protect your own you have to be willing to destroy your moral compass and not just in a benign kind of way but a straight out of character kind of way. Morgan went through a similar personality evolution, however he's only recently recovered from a complete psychotic breakdown, and is at a point where he's sincere. When people question the humanity left in Morgan but detest the actions of Rick they should understand why both character personalities are necessary in this universe, ruthlessness and sincerity.

Rick's rage is acceptable because we've had he's character study over the course of 6 seasons and can find so many angles to validate he's actions. With Morgan however, we've only had glimpses of who he was before and how he's become who he is today. For me the Morgan 'no killing' hate can be justified because he's now part of a group that is required to kill to support one another. But you can also still find many counter arguments to suggest that he's 'no killing' is acceptable considering the journey he's had and what the future may hold. There is no wrong answer in my opinion. But I'm certainly not rooting for him to start killing all of a sudden, because I think he's actions would become more ruthless than satan-mode Rick.