Don Draper's Hat
Member
Hard cut again. Did it end with Neagan saying he could just bury Rick and Carl, while talking to Judith?
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The Walking Dead Season 7, Part 1 Sundays on AMC
- Thread starter SamuraiX-
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Carl froze up, he's just a kid. I'll admit that the scene worked better in the comic because comic Carl is younger.
He's trying to make Negans ridiculous dialog work on television. I personally like it, I'd imagine another take on the lines would look even worse.
He's trying to make Negans ridiculous dialog work on television. I personally like it, I'd imagine another take on the lines would look even worse.
Host Samurai
Member
Negan is just too cool to hate on TV.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I really liked this episode. Negan worked better than during his first visit to Alexandria. Each of the individual characters moments also worked. The only issue that really detracted from the quality of the episode was the pacing. Carl's grand tour of the The Saviors' compound just had so many scenes, and a couple that served the same purpose but were repeated. Some great Negan moments in this one, the character regained some of that lost venom. I'm also digging Rosita's arc. She hasn't really gotten too much development in the past, so it's good that they're giving her a meaty role at the moment.
GhostTrick
Banned
NYR
Member
Bingo. Its over-acting. He obviously has been told to do that and fanboys ate that shit up. Kudos for calling it out as I did in my post last night, very overrated performance, he is doing the same thing in nearly every scene and has nearly zero depth.
Pretty much sums up AMC's approach to this show. "Story? What story? Did you see that Mummy trailer reveal?"
CoffeeExpress
Member
What would happen if they killed Negan ? He sure makes it easy sometimes, thinking he owns the place walking into Alexandria alone. It's clear his camp would self destruct.
This is what I've been saying since several episodes ago when he walked up to the gate back when they had guns. Just fucking kill him. His own camp all fears and distrusts him. This is so fucking stupid there aren't even words for it
Eeesh, putting those two together this episode was rough - Negan's overacting and Carl's inability to act really exaggerates each other.
I think it kinda makes sense. If Negan finds a group with a leader who can keep everyone calm/controlled while they produce for him (Rick and his group, Gregory and the Hilltop etc), killing that leader is a last resort.
I'd guess last week's hide-out full of women was an early mistake by the Saviors. They pushed it too far by killing all the men, causing the women to run off. Now that's one less group producing for them.
I think it kinda makes sense. If Negan finds a group with a leader who can keep everyone calm/controlled while they produce for him (Rick and his group, Gregory and the Hilltop etc), killing that leader is a last resort.
I'd guess last week's hide-out full of women was an early mistake by the Saviors. They pushed it too far by killing all the men, causing the women to run off. Now that's one less group producing for them.
We're seeing that, but think about it from the group's perspective. Last season was just a couple weeks ago for them - and they found an entire outpost of Negan's men who would rather say "I am Negan" and die, than rat on the Saviors. That's unsettling alone without all the extra drama that came afterwards.
I can't square it. They should ALL be acting like Rosita. The group didn't get through the last 6 seasons by being pussies
Previous seasons Rick and co would immediately take Neagan prisoner and/or kill him
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Previous seaasons didn't have the group numbers or mentality of the Saviors or someone that managed to beat a bat into two of their people right in front of them.
Coral's ambush was the most amautuerish piece of television I think I've ever seen. He came just to kill Neagan, had a clear shot with an assault rifle, and didn't take it (and this was after he already went loud killing people). Okay, I'll just kill these other people np, but the one guy I came to kill? Forget it.
And his acting was so bad I felt like it was a dream or imagination sequence or something. It was so bad I didn't believe the show was real.
ZackieChan
Member
Some people should watch the season premiere again and see just how broken everyone there was. Rosita and Coral are outliers - they are fucked up by Negan and the Saviors, especially Rick.
Yea, this makes sense. There is no telling how long Oceanside has been there without men.
One thing I noticed at Hilltop, when Maggie n Co. took care of the walkers, that caused some suspicion in Trevor. (dont know his Walking dead name...lol)
Maybe early on they didnt have the plan to offer protection, they just killed and got rid of competition. I remember one of the women saying that were all being held but escaped.
I would like to know more of the story about what happened with Oceanside, before and after the Saviors.
Samurai G0SU
Member
Preview from the scenes of the next episode of The Walking Dead
It would be funny if the girl michonne is telling to take them to negan drives to Alexandria LOL
when they have that close up of Rick's face red, tears, sad, at loss - i can't imagine what is going to happen. Someone important is going to get it?
It would be funny if the girl michonne is telling to take them to negan drives to Alexandria LOL
Yup noticed that too.
Negan Lucilled somebody because he had blood on his shirt.
He has too. Carl, the lady slapping him...They gonna think he's soft.. Gotta keep them in check.
I also like how all the women seem ready to still fight and Rick retreated in his shell. Wouldnt even be surprised if after this new leadership takes over and its a woman.
DangerMouse
Member
Outside of not shooting again when he got out of the truck at Negan, which is a writing thing that probably could have been filmed better to make the sudden change within a few seconds work better, I thought Chandler did a really good job with the ep.
Yup. He's doing it well.
Yup. He's doing it well.
The Artisan
Member
michonne better not fucking die. richonne 4 life
Samurai G0SU
Member
He also shaved! I almost thought it would have been a 'memory' but i remember him saying he needs to shave this shit (beard) lol. Eugene might get it. idk .. it'll give more rage to Rosita to fulfill her duty! or maybe vice versa? eugene the McGyver we all need? 
Or
McGruberrrrrrrr
Going off of how the producers off people, they need a lot of time and foreshadowing - RIP Tyrese. I think she deserves a badass way out if she ever goes. like slicing and dicing walkers and humans who want her dead.
AngmarsKing701
Member
This is the second time Carl has had a gun on Negan and not shot him. Negan showing up at the gate and all like "let me in" was, as I've mentioned before, stupid, because anyone could have shot him.
Frankly, this was a better episode to highlight Negan's menacing character. There were points here where you actually see the sociopath beneath the Snidely Whiplash facade. His interaction with his wives was actually a well done little scene in that regard. The iron obviously.
But what I really like is how they are showing the two cultures and the difference in loyalty to the leader. With the Saviors, loyalty is fashioned out of fear, and there's a simmering sense of unease going around, the skulking in stairways, that highlight Negan doesn't have as tight a fist around this as he'd like to think he does. Meanwhile, Spencer's interactions with Rosita and Gabriel highlight that despite Spencer being put-out and ready for a coup against Rick, the rest of the community is still loyal, out of respect for Rick's leadership perhaps?, to Rick.
From a storytelling perspective I thought that dichotomy was well done. I thought getting behind that hammy mask that Negan puts on in front of a crowd was also good, because it was getting old. There was some nicely nuanced work done by JDM in this episode, moreso than the constant over-the-top bullshit from the previous eps.
All in all, a good ep, but please stop giving Carl a gun around Negan if he's not going to use it. It really comes off as being poor scripting.
Justin Bailey
------ ------
This show is really starting to lose me. Negan is not that interesting of a villain and nothing is happening this season outside of the premier. It feels like this thing has gone into straight up milk mode.
The Artisan
Member
she must never die
Did you miss the scene where Carl couldn't throw a dart worth a shit and kept hitting the wall?
He had the balls to hide in the back of the truck, and he was determined enough to trick Jesus into leaving him, and he then DIDN'T EVEN TRY TO SHOOT NEAGAN.
You'd have an argument if Carl took the shot but missed, but that's not what happened. The writers are apparently really really REALLY bad at writing (as is becoming ever more clear) because they should have just gone that route instead.
The Artisan
Member
Based off of most responses in this thread and elsewhere on the net I think I'm inclined to believe that this show has passed its peak, or at least it should be safe to say.
Old Gimlet Eyes
Member
So Negan going to adopt Carl and Judith? Really piss Rick off? He definitely has a shine for Carl to say the least.
Everyone's behaving stupidly. Neagan got a bunch of loot from Alexandria, it's in his interest to keep them stable and going as is -- Antagonizing the hell out of them isn't going to help at this point and only pushes them further towards rebelling
The Artisan
Member
if they rebel now he's just going to kill them all (and he'll probably get away with it too)
And I'm saying Neagan is acting against his own interest by antagonizing a group that's already providing for him. If he was smart he'd want some kind of stability and play nice with groups who are behaving themselves. Instead he just acts like a cartoon asshole at all times and doesn't seem smart or even like a real person. The writing is saturday morning cartoon tier
AngmarsKing701
Member
We (and more importantly Rick) have seen no indication that Simon/Trevor or Dwight would have the mettle to pick up Negan's authority and maintain it. It could, in fact, create more of a civil war within his factions.
Look, the bottom line is that there have been a couple of scenes where Negan has either put himself unnecessarily at risk or the writers have put a gun in Carl's hand pointing directly at Negan and then had him not pull the trigger. Without the notion that Negan has a firm grasp on a huge army (which they haven't really shown us on screen), then they are open to this criticism.
And frankly, Carl wouldn't really give a shit what the consequences are. One of these two times he's had the gun he would have shot him. It's completely out of character for him NOT TO HAVE SHOT HIM.
Rick ... I mean I can be convinced I guess that Rick is trying to protect what he has now, but that's a sudden turnabout to how he got to where he is. The last time he turned into a pussy that didn't turn out well for him either, so I'm surprised he's not fighting back a bit more. But maybe he is, internally. My personal opinion is that his convo with Michonne should have given us more of a "we need to bide our time, wait for our opening, we can't fight him yet but we need to keep watching" instead of "I'm just gonna roll over and take a barbed bat up my ass and that's our life now."
It's difficult to know for sure because the actor isn't very good, but I think it's becoming clear that Carl doesn't want to kill Negan (well, maybe part of him does), he's just obsessed with Negan.
Carl is a little psycho (not surprising given the world he's growing up in) and has always encouraged Rick to be more gung-ho and show zero tolerance. Now he's just seen his father broken and weak, and he wants a new father figure...
Or maybe he is just a terrible shot.
There's this constant belief from some viewers that if Negan is killed, it would make sense for the Saviors to descend into chaos and just completely unravel. But I guess to be fair, some of the characters seem to believe this as well. There's also this belief that no one likes him and that everyone working for him would rejoice if he died.
But there's plenty of evidence that many of his people are loyal. The sheer number of people at his command is evidence of this. We also saw this in last night's episode where the people with Negan when Carl was asking for him with the gun would not agree to turn him over, and in fact were willing to be human shields.
And remember this: no matter how many Saviors would be thankful that Negan was dead, Rick and his people are still their enemies. They came to the Savior's attention through all the people they killed at the outpost. And in a hypothetical where Negan is killed, that would just reinforce the fear that the people of Alexandria aren't going to fall in line and are willing to wipe out the Saviors to protect themselves. Even if the Saviors would eventually crumble as a unified group without Negan, they would have an immediate unifying cause to retaliate before that happened. So anyone who kills Negan - or takes a chance on it - has to be prepared to accept these consequences. We saw this play out explicitly with the scenes between Rosita and Eugene.
Hasn't stopped Negan from antagonizing the shit out of Rick so far. A thing about Negan that really annoys me. He fucking antagonizes everyone constantly. Get these people on your side. If you really wanna give them the Stockholm, you gotta throw a little bit more nice in there and at least try and give the illusion that you're reasonable, not doing stuff for the hell of it and declaring how far you're pushing your dick down. Otherwise, I do really enjoy Negan other than his rapey interactions with women.
It's just bad writing. He's such an asshole that we can't believe his people would come avenge him if anyone killed him. All we see are people around him regarding him with fear and mistrust. Over and over.
The Artisan
Member
of course he is acting against his own interest. he is a villain, after all. he's been doing this shit to the other communities and alexandria is new to it
Fuck, you're right.
The Artisan
Member
it's different from the comics coz...
Judith already died at the hands of the governor way back in the prison
To everyone saying kill negan, Rick and others know that his followers are devoted, and are obviously assholes.
Why would they have any reason to think if Negan is dead his henchman won't figure out a way to maintain their lifestyle?
Civil war among the saviors doesn't really do anyone any good, it would just pilfer their existing resources and end their collections from other settlements.
You could kill negan and hope for civil war, but it would be much smarter to develop a long term plan to take negan down with the help of his own people (someone you have a good chance of trusting will not just continue the existing reign of terror, dwight), as then you won't have blowback on your own group.
If it happens suddenly and without planning it's way more likely you just end of killing everyone in Alexandria or at best continue the status quo of working for the saviors. The saviors full on imploding because of negan sudden death is absolutely the long shot super unlikely scenario in Ricks mind, given the premier and he has no idea at this point that dwight actually isn't much of a fan of negan. We know things that Rick doesn't.
This is gonna shake out with Dwight, Daryl, Rick, that king guy, and maybe the women group conspiring to take down negan, and then trade between the settlements without the threat of racketeering.
It's kind of obvious.
Why would they have any reason to think if Negan is dead his henchman won't figure out a way to maintain their lifestyle?
Civil war among the saviors doesn't really do anyone any good, it would just pilfer their existing resources and end their collections from other settlements.
You could kill negan and hope for civil war, but it would be much smarter to develop a long term plan to take negan down with the help of his own people (someone you have a good chance of trusting will not just continue the existing reign of terror, dwight), as then you won't have blowback on your own group.
If it happens suddenly and without planning it's way more likely you just end of killing everyone in Alexandria or at best continue the status quo of working for the saviors. The saviors full on imploding because of negan sudden death is absolutely the long shot super unlikely scenario in Ricks mind, given the premier and he has no idea at this point that dwight actually isn't much of a fan of negan. We know things that Rick doesn't.
This is gonna shake out with Dwight, Daryl, Rick, that king guy, and maybe the women group conspiring to take down negan, and then trade between the settlements without the threat of racketeering.
It's kind of obvious.
Lord_Byron28
Member
I'm guessing Negan takes Judith. It seemed like he was considering taking Carl and having him be his heir. However, once he found Judith I think he changed his mind about Carl.
Also in regards to the Saviors. I think the main problem is the entire group seems to be composed of prisoners from other communities. Hard to feel any sense of loyalty about them when the only ones we know about are ones who were taken from their community and tortured into doing Negan's bidding.
Also in regards to the Saviors. I think the main problem is the entire group seems to be composed of prisoners from other communities. Hard to feel any sense of loyalty about them when the only ones we know about are ones who were taken from their community and tortured into doing Negan's bidding.
Barry Burton
Member
I'm also in the "Carl not shooting Negan came across as really dumb" camp. I get what others are saying, that killing Negan will have consequences. But so will killing a few more of his men and threatening (again) to kill him, only to get caught. Carl's entire rationale for sneaking on the truck and getting the gun was to kill Negan, and he doesn't take the chance because of why, exactly? Does he really think someone else won't get Lucille'd now? It's just another example of bad writing. Negan holding Daryl or Jesus at gunpoint might have been an acceptable reason for Carl to hesitate from shooting him, but everything about how it actually went down just felt ridiculously contrived.
I thought last night's episode was decent, but it was 90 minutes entirely spent setting up for the finale, and it moved at a snail's pace in doing so. The big problem is that the previous episodes this season have all been self-contained to one location and one set of characters, which has slowed a lot of the momentum, whereas last night's had way too much going on. For example, early in the episode we see Rick & Aaron heading out into the woods, but the show doesn't check back in with them until almost an hour later. By the time that the redheaded woman hits the zombie roadblock towards the end of the show, I had almost forgotten that Michonne was even in this week's episode.
Really hope the second half of the season is paced a lot better than the first half has been thus far.
I thought last night's episode was decent, but it was 90 minutes entirely spent setting up for the finale, and it moved at a snail's pace in doing so. The big problem is that the previous episodes this season have all been self-contained to one location and one set of characters, which has slowed a lot of the momentum, whereas last night's had way too much going on. For example, early in the episode we see Rick & Aaron heading out into the woods, but the show doesn't check back in with them until almost an hour later. By the time that the redheaded woman hits the zombie roadblock towards the end of the show, I had almost forgotten that Michonne was even in this week's episode.
Really hope the second half of the season is paced a lot better than the first half has been thus far.
I'm ready for the moment when Rick & Aaron come back feeling relieved about what they've scavenged for Negan, only to find out that some combination of Carl/Michonne/Rosita/Olivia has fucked up and gotten on Negan's bad side. No doubt that because Negan's message from the premiere and "Service" has gotten through to Rick but practically no one else, it's Rick who will again suffer the consequences.
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