WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Dude's it's rape. This is common sense. They don't want to be with him, but they "have" to. If you talk to anyone who has studied basic human health they would say the same thing.
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The Walking Dead Season 7, Part 1 Sundays on AMC
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bitbydeath
Member
They don't have to, it is not life threatening if they don't, they choose to in the same way someone in todays time stays with a rich person for their money and not because they love them.
Comic Spoiler
Negan later saves someone from getting raped and calls them savages, think even kills the attackers for it
No I'm not gunna read to comics. Why would I. I'm a show watcher. If I did read the comics, I know well enough that the comic and show doesn't mirror each other. What I've seen in the show is more than enough thank you.
With this, I'm done. Like I said. Huge trolls or painfully and disgustingly ill taught. And I don't mind sharing knowledge, but I'm not getting anywhere with either of you. All I get is justification from the comic that has no place here because Negan has already shown enough.
OK, well I've only watched the show and the way they presented it, it was more of a life or death decision -- at least that's how I interpreted it. When Negan left the room, the show made a point of portraying the women as a group that is suffering, not ones that are content with being, as you would say, gold diggers.
There was a clear sign of distress on their faces. To me, they gave off a vibe of being forced to be there.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
The comics is not the show, and just because he believes it's not rape does not in fact make it not rape. For sex to be consensual it has to be equal, and we know for a fact Negan has power over them. Rape is about power.
NoLongerALurker
Banned
I'm a comic reader so I'm mostly leaning on the comic side of this discussion. If the show chooses to change things up and show that Negan is forcing these women to be with him and thus raping them, then yeah I agree that it's rape and Negan is a really fucking shitty person as I'm not somebody in favor of rape.
In the comics the women choose to be there. Perhaps the show is changing that up but I think I'm still able to give reasons for it not being rape thus far. Perhaps they are shit reasons. I guess we'll see how things go as the season goes on and I truly am willing to change my opinion on the matter, but right now I don't think it's rape.
If the zombie apocalypse happened, and if you were physically and mentally capable of it, would you be like Negan? Do you generally think he has the right idea?
Twenty7KVN
Member
It is life threatening if they leave they know it's certain death for them,they won't be able to survive in the world by themselves. And if they come back negan is not going to let them in with out a price. Probably make the work a shitty job or torture and disfigure and make them work a shitty job.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I read the comics. What the show is explicitly saying and what happens in the comics are two different things. The show by virtue of its format goes further into depth on basically everything, similar to how much The Governor got fleshed out in the show compared to what we see in the mainline issues of the comic. What the show is doing is shining a spotlight on how a harem of women would probably work in a post apocalyptic world...and to the surprise of nobody, it's pretty rapey.
Comic Spoilers
And honestly none of this really contradicts Negan's disdain of violent rape in the comic. I think the show just isn't asking the audience to realistically believe that anybody would willingly enter into this arrangement unless they were being coerced. Negan just has a very narrow definition of rape in the show.
What grown woman wants to show their breasts to some random teenager? And yet Negan basically told Carl he could make it happen if he wanted it. The women there don't have control, same as the men don't have control. Negan has just picked out specific women in The Saviors and given them a choice. Have sex with me and be happy about it OR you and your family can work the walker wall and possibly be killed. His deal with the men is similar, except it doesn;t include the sexual violence. It's do whatever the fuck I say OR work the walker wall OR get your head bashed in. Some of y'all are scaring me cause the show wasn't even subtle about this...
NoLongerALurker
Banned
Nah, I'm more of a Glenn. I don't like rape, I just don't see what Negan is doing as rape because the women aren't forced to be with him. They can live life without having to be one of Negans wives. We see that in season 6 with the women that capture Maggie and Carol.
If anything the show has shown us that women are treated much better on the show than in the comics because I can't recall anytime in the comics where a woman had a major job, it was all men at the outposts and what not.
Leaving Negan doesn't mean you have to leave The Sanctuary. They'd stop getting special treatment and have to earn their food but they wouldn't be banished.
ArkkAngel007
Member
The show is portraying Negan as a rapist. Yes, the comics show he abhors rape and his wives are more or less content with choosing the "Negan Perks Package". His stance on cheating is as harsh as on the show due to
But until they delve into that and display that their "freedom" isn't a forced choice, then we have to go with the show content that displays that none of his wives are happy with the situation and are being held there through threat of a lesser and dangerous life otherwise. Along with Negan taking pleasure in displaying that in front of their original partners.
On another note, points deal with a variety of tasks to better serve the Sanctuary/Negan. Not sure if I missed the show explaining that or if it's been made out to be that the bucket game is what that is.
him having cheated on his wife to only find that she was diagnosed and dying of cancer.
But until they delve into that and display that their "freedom" isn't a forced choice, then we have to go with the show content that displays that none of his wives are happy with the situation and are being held there through threat of a lesser and dangerous life otherwise. Along with Negan taking pleasure in displaying that in front of their original partners.
On another note, points deal with a variety of tasks to better serve the Sanctuary/Negan. Not sure if I missed the show explaining that or if it's been made out to be that the bucket game is what that is.
NoLongerALurker
Banned
The ratings had a slight bump this week, which was honestly a surprise to me since it was competing against the Westworld finale. I think we'll see another bump this weekend for the MSF. I'm going to guess around 12mil viewers. The Giants vs Cowboys football game could prevent that from happening though.
Disagree Guy
Member
Yeah that's what I meant, sorry mate.
Pestilence11
Member
I was thinking during the iron scene the mob of people could/should just jump Negan. There were 50 servants there, all of which have seen his bullshit time and time again and I don't believe the "scared into submission" crap, he doesn't come off as believably scary enough. Out of all those people it would only take one or two to lead by example and you have to think they talk while he's not around.
nuttyevans
Member
What is the job they have Daryll doing? Seems like they just throw him in with some zombies to stand around.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Negan's way keeps them fed, safe, and in a position of power over the other groups. They gotta eat a shit sandwich from him every once in awhile but they can feed it to Hilltop and Alexandria all the same.
There are going to be people who are genuinely loyal to him who will shut down an uprising to curry favor with him. The key to the punishments is to contextualize it as not being random whims but something for the better good. During a bank robbery everyone in the bank could jump the robber, but sitting on your hands and playing along is what 99.9999% of people do. These people think that if they just follow orders, that they'll never be on his bad side. These techniques are straight out of The Prince and have been working for centuries. In an outlandish show, it's the least unbelievable thing.
Now if Negan just started bashing heads in randomly...yeah, they'd just say fuck it and go for it.
There was a ship called the Batavia that wrecked itself on the rocks in the 1600s. Not only was there a mutiny, but a passenger on the ship was able to gather power and convinced other crew members to carry out random murders on other survivors...just for fun. Shit like this has happened before.
What people seem to forget is that Rick and co. murdered dozens (?) of people in the satellite outpost in cold blood. Those people must have had friends or even relatives within the Saviors group. Even if Rick or someone else kills Negan, it's not like the group will welcome them as heroes, or even accept Rick as their new leader. Also, as was pointed out before, Negan is keeping these people alive and fed. As long as they adhere to the rules, they can live a stable life without worry. Well, some people are less lucky (Negan's "wives"), but I'm assuming most people at Negan's base are satisfied with the life they have and don't want it be destroyed by some outsiders. Outsiders who murdered their people before.
So yeah, Rick's group can kill Negan if they really wanted to, but they would be the next ones to go.
So yeah, Rick's group can kill Negan if they really wanted to, but they would be the next ones to go.
they should kill him and decide what to do next. if moving out like the girl tribe did makes sense, then do that.
this whole show hurts my head with its stupidity
Pestilence11
Member
One thing I didn't take into account is the mentality shift from living in a post apocalyptic world, I guess mostly because zombies haven't been much of a threat this season. With that in mind, what you said makes sense with security, being fed etc. Something still feels off with his character though.
I thought this episode was a lot better than the previous one. I really dig Negan as a villain and his interactions with Carl were glorious in this episode.
How did the hunter actually die in his little tree platform? He just starved without wanting to get down or something? That was weird.
How did the hunter actually die in his little tree platform? He just starved without wanting to get down or something? That was weird.
LostMyNarbles
Member
Yeah it was really dumb because he had the note about his caches on him so he presumably had access to lots of food and medicine. I'm guessing maybe he got bit and died up there overnight but it doesn't seem like they really cared what people thought.
ToyMachine228
Member
While it may have been hokey, Carl would have been obliterated right then and there if he shot Neagan. He's an important character alive and his death would be pointless.
Then have him get tackled before having a shot, or have him shoot and miss.
It *shattered* my suspension of disbelief so hard it'll probably never recover -- That he had the presence of mind to plan this, to get Jesus off the truck -- that's how determined he was -- Was fine with shooting henchmen without batting an eye but then just decided to spare Negan for some reason. It makes literally no sense whatsoever. Carl has killed people before and he had a clear mission. It just makes no sense.
snoopeasystreet
Member
The lengths some people will go to defend a character they think is cool and badass is deplorable. I really hope it's just trolling and not their legitimate beliefs.
If she dies I'm done. She's the only character I like at this point haha
Twenty7KVN
Member
Maybe but he'll make their lives a living hell.
AngmarsKing701
Member
Figured we'd hit bottom and we'd see a little increase for the last 2 weeks. A little surprised it wasn't a little higher.
I'm thinking E8 will be in the 11.2M range and a 5.3 rating.
Can Crusher
Banned
The last couple of episodes were trash. Bummed out man, bummed out!
You see that thing that just flew right over your head? Yeah, that's the point of my original post.
Killing_Joke
Member
Negan is a manipulator. A woman saying no would be considered rape to him. Therefor he manipulates them to say yes to make it seem consensual when it's really not. They literally smacked us across the face with this when he threatened her family if she left. It wasn't punishment for cheating or else he would have done it. Plus you know the whole Sherry subplot where she has to be Negan's salve wife or else her husband dies. Who knows what the hell he had in store with the Oceanside woman before they ran off. It's creepy and fucked up. He's a rapist. Unlike the Gov, where all the ladies flocked to him. He had his creepy moment with Maggie but i took that more as a scare tactic then rape (of course that was most likely toned down for the show). On paper Negan is clearly the most fucked up villain so far despite being funny and charming as fuck.
Captain Europe
Member
The acting saves Negan, but the narrative is full of plotholes, realistically speaking(yeah I know it's a show about zombies), Negan would have been dead a long time ago, just in this episode there were so many opportunities to easily overpower him, even the wives could just hit him in the head with a glass and gang up on him. This is Darryl plot armour times 100.
What if he got up there to avoid a swarming horde and they hung around until he died of thirst/hunger?
Not a lock.
Regarding Negan, I saw someone posting that he comes off as cartoonish. That's the point really. In the book he's more... colourful regarding his choice of words and combining this with his actions he seems like a cartoon villain. I understand that not everyone likes this approach, but in the book or works pretty well.
And lol the discussion about Negan not being a rapist. He is, but he has double standards. How clear do you want it to be?
Comicbook spoilers about Negan's double standard view on rape
it is strange to see Negan forcing his wives to have sex with him, but when somebody else does it it's not cool. There are two examples of this;
- At some point the Saviours attack Alexandria and while doing damage Negan finds one of his men trying to rape an Alexandrian. Negan kills him and apolagizes to the woman. "Thats not who we are"
- Some time later Negan comes across two guys trying to rape a woman and jumps right in to save her.
- At some point the Saviours attack Alexandria and while doing damage Negan finds one of his men trying to rape an Alexandrian. Negan kills him and apolagizes to the woman. "Thats not who we are"
- Some time later Negan comes across two guys trying to rape a woman and jumps right in to save her.
Negan is the mayor of crazy town
CopperPuppy
Member
My initial bewilderment faded into a deep pity of just how much one comic book character can mean to someone.
Mediking
Member
Negan really DOES look directly into the camera after insulting Olivia... Not even really at Carl. He's just looking at us.
... then he proceeds to offer sex with her.
... then he intimidates her into making lemonade. What a great guy!
I have a love/hate view of Negan.
I do think the way he was talking with Sherry was amazing and so well done.
... then he proceeds to offer sex with her.
... then he intimidates her into making lemonade. What a great guy!
I have a love/hate view of Negan.
I do think the way he was talking with Sherry was amazing and so well done.
Mediking
Member
Negan just has mannerisms that defines his personality.
Look at the crazy stare-down he is giving Sherry. So intense. Just like when he was staring down at Daryl. THESE ARE THE MOMENTS I LIKE.
Negan just has mannerisms that defines his personality.
Look at the crazy stare-down he is giving Sherry. So intense. Just like when he was staring down at Daryl. THESE ARE THE MOMENTS I LIKE.
Right, and he's had good moments, I just think the comic does a MUCH better job of keeping his character fresh. I never really felt like I was reading the same stuff. In the show I feel like they're constantly falling into the same trap of HERE'S PLAYFUL NEGAN WITH ANOTHER INTENSE SCENE multiple times. I think they need to tone that down a LOT because it's overshadowing much better moments.
MulderYuffie
Member
i'm loving negan it just sucks he shaves next episode can't wait though.
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