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[yet_another_alt]

Is the problem with Miles is that he is just a black spider-man or that he is written poorly?

One then the other. Ultimate Parker is probably even more beloved than 616 Parker at that time. He was pretty much the beacon of the entire Ultimate Universe. Had Miles been not been introduced as a replacement and instead as an addition to the Spider family then he might have been better received. As for the writing it really didn't help that while he had a decent supporting cast that he himself wasn't as interesting. All his fights boiling down to using venom blasts didn't endear him to many either. Ultimately I think had he been eased into the cast he would have been better accepted. Aunt May was already practically running a halfway house for teen superheroes, putting Miles into it wouldn't have changed the preexisting dynamic much and it would have established him in a stabler setting from which they could have then elevated him as a successor later.

Regarding the topic at hand, I don't think of reboots as a replacement exactly. It's basically another universe so I'm fine with them changing Buffy this way. Hell, I was fine with Ghostbusters reboot and I was practically raised on Ghostbusters and RGB as a kid. At the very least Answer the Call made for more crossover material for the IDW comics. Of course it helps that Eric Burnham really gets Ghostbusters so that crossover was pretty fun.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Original Buffy was full of "social justice politics"

SHHHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOO

I was sitting here like this

You were supposed to let them go wild bukkaeing each other with all their alt-right anti-social justice rhetoric.

The joke's on them that Joss Whedon cut his teeth with shows like Buffy in the 90's and Firefly at the turn of the century.

 

[Dunki]

SHHHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOO

I was sitting here like this

You were supposed to let them go wild bukkaeing each other with all their alt-right anti-social justice rhetoric.

The joke's on them that Joss Whedon cut his teeth with shows like Buffy in the 90's and Firefly at the turn of the century.

The thing is they were not extreme like today. The outfits alone buffy was wearing the language she used. The "toxic" relationships with Spike the almost rape scenarios with him would NEVER fly today.

Bufy had very postive messages yes but it was not some authoritarian bullshit that social justice today has become.

 

[DKehoe]

The thing is they were not extreme like today. The outfits alone buffy was wearing the language she used. The "toxic" relationships with Spike the almost rape scenarios with him would NEVER fly today.

Bufy had very postive messages yes but it was not some authoritarian bullshit that social justice today has become.

What were your thoughts on the characters of Jonathan, Andrew and Warren? You seem to really dislike Anita Sarkisian for speaking out against "gamers" but those characters were pretty much the show doing the same thing.

 

[Spheyr]

HAHA Ok now I want to see it XD

I don't like agreeing with her on any topic.

 

[Boss Mog]

This to me is the actual definition of cultural appropriation. You're taking a beloved piece of pop culture and choosing to remake it only for the sake of pushing an agenda. Whether it be a woman pushing for a Ghostbusters remake starring women, a black woman pushing for a remake of Buffy with a black woman as Buffy or a masculine lesbian woman pushing a She-Ra remake where She-Ra appears to be a masculine lesbian. If you're a "creator" and you want to push characters that look and think like you why can't you make original ones with original stories? Why do you instead have to appropriate beloved franchises and characters? My guess is that these people don't actually have the talent to do so (because having an agenda and having talent are two different things) and so it's easier to piggyback on somebody else's quality work.

 

[Dunki]

What were your thoughts on the characters of Jonathan, Andrew and Warren? You seem to really dislike Anita Sarkisian for speaking out against "gamers" but those characters were pretty much the show doing the same thing.

The ones who were basically villains? Sorry I do not remember these at all anymore^^

But if these are the ones yes Anita is a villain. I agree with that.

 

[DKehoe]

The ones who were basically villains? Sorry I do not remember these at all anymore^^

But if these are the ones yes Anita is a villain. I agree with that.

Yeh, basically they were characters who were a critique of what today would be called "toxic male nerd culture"

 

[Dunki]

Yeh, basically they were characters who were a critique of what today would be called "toxic male nerd culture"

Zander would be called toxic male culture. Spike would be and so on. These were just characters. Again Buffy always was for social justice she was the good one but there also were limits for her. She was no extremist she was a normal teenager just like the whole gang. That is the difference.

 

[Christopher]

Why not a continuation? Or a telling of the actually black slayer who was portrayed instead of changing the race of a preestablished character?

 

[FITTER THAN MOST]

no kid will watch the old buffy with terrible screen resolution, a new 4k black buffy sounds great, take a look at the photos people are trying to peddle on here to show how buffy looked, even they are dog-eared, also buffy was a whole different type of girl to what guys like now, everything gets re booted at some stage, the world is changing, you sound old.

 

[AfricanKing]

Black people are 13% of the population in the US, and over-represented in American media compared to their representation in demographics.


Here's a racial breakdown for movies:

And TV

You've got plenty of representation.

Sorry saw this before but had to time to dis-spell it.. here is an in-depth study done by UCLA that is accurate as of February 2018

Minorities remain underrepresented in film leads (13.9%), film directors (12.6%), film writers (8.1%), broadcast scripted leads (18.7%), cable scripted leads (20.2%), broadcast reality and other leads (26.6%) and leads for cable reality and other leads (20.9%).

Women posted gains in all the key employment arenas since the previous report, with the exception of four — film directors, broadcast scripted show leads, cable scripted show creators, and broadcast scripted show creators. They are underrepresented among film leads (31.2%), film directors (6.9%), film writers (13.8%), broadcast scripted leads (35.7%), cable scripted leads (44.8%) and broadcast reality and other leads (18.8%).

Variety
UCLA Study

Sorry to pop your bubble .. we need more representation in the media and it's happening every day which is fantastic.

 

[AfricanKing]

This to me is the actual definition of cultural appropriation. You're taking a beloved piece of pop culture and choosing to remake it only for the sake of pushing an agenda. Whether it be a woman pushing for a Ghostbusters remake starring women, a black woman pushing for a remake of Buffy with a black woman as Buffy or a masculine lesbian woman pushing a She-Ra remake where She-Ra appears to be a masculine lesbian. If you're a "creator" and you want to push characters that look and think like you why can't you make original ones with original stories? Why do you instead have to appropriate beloved franchises and characters? My guess is that these people don't actually have the talent to do so (because having an agenda and having talent are two different things) and so it's easier to piggyback on somebody else's quality work.

Yeah the Original creator of the Buffy is pushing this as well you do know that right.. and Buffy is not a staple figure in American or White culture

 

[KevinKeene]

My reaction: did anyone REALLY want more Buffy?

 

[Papa]

You might to do a rewatch mate. It was pretty progressive, they touched on rape, school shooting, Nazis being scum, bullying, racism. In the last few seasons one of the reoccurring characters was black and he talked about how hard it was growing up black without his mom, a Slayer who was killed by Spike. They even go into her back story, a single mother who was a Slayer in NY and how hard that was for her having to choose between being a mother and raising her son to understand the world will not be kind to him bc of his skin color (IIRC his mother was an activist, or suggested she was), or her duty as a Slayer.

Hell, there was also Kendra a Slayer who routinely told Buffy to her face she was privileged.

That's not far right at all

1) That comment was tongue-in-cheek.

2) It was about modern standards, not Buffy.

 

[Papa]

Sorry saw this before but had to time to dis-spell it.. here is an in-depth study done by UCLA that is accurate as of February 2018



Variety
UCLA Study

Sorry to pop your bubble .. we need more representation in the media and it's happening every day which is fantastic.

The UCLA study refers to an umbrella group of “minorities”. @Spheyr’s stats include a breakdown by black, Hispanic, Asian, other, and show that the ratio of black representation in film and TV to proportion of population is greater than one. So basically, you‘re appropriating underrepresentation of other minorities to demand that your group be even more equal.

 

[Papa]

Yeah the Original creator of the Buffy is pushing this as well you do know that right.. and Buffy is not a staple figure in American or White culture

It’s almost as if he has some serious allegations against him and is trying really hard to show how woke he is. I wonder what he could’ve been accused of

 

[Spheyr]

So basically, you‘re appropriating underrepresentation of other minorities to demand that your group be even more equal.

That's nothing new.

here is an in-depth study

"Here is a thing written about a totally different thing than what's being discussed"

 

[AfricanKing]

The UCLA study refers to an umbrella group of “minorities”. @Spheyr’s stats include a breakdown by black, Hispanic, Asian, other, and show that the ratio of black representation in film and TV to proportion of population is greater than one. So basically, you‘re appropriating underrepresentation of other minorities to demand that your group be even more equal.

The study is very to the point , it sees minorities as a group opposed to White . Which is fine a win for any minority is a win for all from Latino to Asian its clear there is a gap in representation. Especially for Asians .

1. Minorities. Constituting nearly 40
percent of the U. S. population in 2015,
minorities will become the majority within a
few decades. Since the previous report,
people of color have posted gains relative to
their white counterparts in five of the
industry employment arenas examined (i.e.,
film leads, broadcast scripted leads,
broadcast reality and other leads, digital
scripted leads, and broadcast scripted show
creators). Minorities lost ground in four of
the 11 arenas (i.e., film directors, film
writers, cable scripted leads, and digital
scripted show creators) and merely held
their ground in the other two (i.e., cable
scripted show creators and cable reality and
other leads)

 

[AfricanKing]

"Here is a thing written about a totally different thing than what's being discussed"

So you never got as far as the executive summary Kool

 

[TrainedRage]

HAHA Ok now I want to see it XD

im in

 

[Papa]

The study is very to the point , it sees minorities as a group opposed to White . Which is fine a win for any minority is a win for all from Latino that Asian its clear there is a gap in representation. Especially for Asians .

No.

You’re grasping at straws.

 

[AfricanKing]

No.

You’re grasping at straws.

Minority means minority.. but don't worry by 2020 minorities will make up 50% of the USA population.

 

[bitbydeath]

My reaction: did anyone REALLY want more Buffy?

Me. Admittedly though I’d rather it were a continuation as opposed to a reboot. Hopefully all others aren’t recast and it doesn’t follow the same points as the original cause it could never live up to that.

 

[TrainedRage]

Minority means minority.. but don't worry by 2020 minorities will make up 50% of the USA population.

Then will you shut up?

 

[Corrik]

I do not feel that anyone can do as well in the role of Buffy than SMG. I mean, almost all the original cast was great.

I could be behind them maybe doing a continuation of the storyline with a new slayer. I just can't see redoing buffy itself.

 

[TheShadowLord]

This to me is the actual definition of cultural appropriation. You're taking a beloved piece of pop culture and choosing to remake it only for the sake of pushing an agenda. Whether it be a woman pushing for a Ghostbusters remake starring women, a black woman pushing for a remake of Buffy with a black woman as Buffy or a masculine lesbian woman pushing a She-Ra remake where She-Ra appears to be a masculine lesbian. If you're a "creator" and you want to push characters that look and think like you why can't you make original ones with original stories? Why do you instead have to appropriate beloved franchises and characters? My guess is that these people don't actually have the talent to do so (because having an agenda and having talent are two different things) and so it's easier to piggyback on somebody else's quality work.

I wonder how people would react today if we had a black Harvey Dent or a black Kingpin from either side. Certainly back then they weren't pushing an agenda, right? Billy Dee Williams did get to be Two Face in the Lego Batman as he was going to be.

 

[Papa]

Minority means minority.. but don't worry by 2020 minorities will make up 50% of the USA population.

1) Intersectionality is a nonsense concept dreamed up by ideologues in the humanities to unite disparate groups with little in common for a political agenda.

2) You were originally talking about black representation, not minorities as a whole (there’s that moving of goalposts you like to accuse others of, though it’s ok when you do it).

3) Will you still call them minorities when they’re 50% of the population? I suppose at that point you will do away with the intersectionality doctrine and revert to the individual minority statistics because the numbers will be more convenient.

 

[kunonabi]

No issues with black lead (or asian, or caucasian, or alien), but making her play the character of "Buffy Summers" is some bullshit.
Give her a new character FFS.

I wonder how people would react today if we had a black Harvey Dent or a black Kingpin from either side. Certainly back then they weren't pushing an agenda, right? Billy Dee Williams did get to be Two Face in the Lego Batman as he was going to be.

We had a black Kingpin and it was just as divisive than as it would be now. Burton's was such a different beast that Two-Face probably wouldnt get much flak and Billy Dee is so awesome anyway that he'd probably get a similar pass to what Tilda Swinton got for whitewashing the ancient one.

 

[Boss Mog]

Yeah the Original creator of the Buffy is pushing this as well you do know that right.. and Buffy is not a staple figure in American or White culture

Well of course the original creator is on board, he's not gonna pass up a chance to virtue signal, plus he'd be labeled a racist if he refused. And my statement wasn't really about white culture, but anything being remade for no good reason, if they remade Beverly Hills Cop with a white Axel Foley I would be just as against it, but that never happens so I had to work with examples that exist.

 

[AfricanKing]

1) Intersectionality is a nonsense concept dreamed up by ideologues in the humanities to unite disparate groups with little in common for a political agenda.

2) You were originally talking about black representation, not minorities as a whole (there’s that moving of goalposts you like to accuse others of, though it’s ok when you do it).

3) Will you still call them minorities when they’re 50% of the population? I suppose at that point you will do away with the intersectionality doctrine and revert to the individual minority statistics because the numbers will be more convenient.

1. Subjective at best but hey what ever suits your needs change the narrative as needed
2. Here's my original quote keep in mind I mention minorities not black people

   White people have enough representation in the media , whitewashing is a bigger crime in the industry than recasting key characters to better fit the diverse audience.Plus it also helps that the same person who made the original is also the one recasting for it. Minorities need a bigger representation in TV and Film and this is just one of the steps to making it happen. Nothing wrong with doing it no one is gonna lose their job because the protagonist is now Black

3. No I'll call you a minority

 

[Ke0]

Well of course the original creator is on board, he's not gonna pass up a chance to virtue signal, plus he'd be labeled a racist if he refused. And my statement wasn't really about white culture, but anything being remade for no good reason, if they remade Beverly Hills Cop with a white Axel Foley I would be just as against it, but that never happens so I had to work with examples that exist.

Or...bare with me here just giving this some thought...maybe he's stated a few times he wants to return to TV, and genuinely likes the ideas that were presented to him? And I'm pretty sure Whedon has partial ownership of the Buffy IP. So the reboot wouldn't even get the greenlight for the ideation stage without him signing off.

 

[haxan7]

I... don't see anything wrong with a black Buffy.

 

[Christopher]

1. Subjective at best but hey what ever suits your needs change the narrative as needed
2. Here's my original quote keep in mind I mention minorities not black people
3. No I'll call you a minority

Oh good I can’t wait to be called a minority. However the the shift wil lead to you still whining how the minority has all the money and whatever else, it never ends.

Your so angry and whiny, be happy life’s good.

 

[Papa]

1. Subjective at best but hey what ever suits your needs change the narrative as needed
2. Here's my original quote keep in mind I mention minorities not black people
3. No I'll call you a minority

Yes, it is I who is changing narratives. Not the people in humanities departments inventing concepts like intersectionality and patriarchy theory to forcefeed feeble-minded fools.

 

[CaliggyJack]

Eh, I always hated Buffy after season 3.

When they remake Angel call me and then I'll care.

 

[Papa]

Oh good I can’t wait to be called a minority. However the the shift wil lead to you still whining how the minority has all the money and whatever else, it never ends.

Your so angry and whiny, be happy life’s good.

No, I think he has a point. No minority group with a disproportionate level of wealth has ever been ostracized by an envious majority group.

 

[TheShadowLord]

We had a black Kingpin and it was just as divisive than as it would be now. Burton's was such a different beast that Two-Face probably wouldnt get much flak and Billy Dee is so awesome anyway that he'd probably get a similar pass to what Tilda Swinton got for whitewashing the ancient one.

really? People complain about Micheal Clark Duncan as the Kingpin? I'm going have to ask this question reddit what they thought about him even if daredevil was crap.

 

[Durask]

Sorry to pop your bubble .. we need more representation in the media

Who is "we"?

 

[haxan7]

Who is "we"?

Vampire slayers. My community has always been underrepresented due to our rarity.

 

[kunonabi]

really? People complain about Micheal Clark Duncan as the Kingpin? I'm going have to ask this question reddit what they thought about him even if daredevil was crap.

I like Duncan as much as the next guy but his Kingpin was just as bad as everything else. Not that I blame him since the material was awful.

 

[nkarafo]

Changing established characters just to pander to certain demographics is the worst. Gender swaps, color swaps, etc. Its nothing more than a gimmick. Just make new characters, why is that so hard?

 

[haxan7]

Changing established characters just to pander to certain demographics is the worst. Gender swaps, color swaps, etc. Its nothing more than a gimmick. Just make new characters, why is that so hard?

I admit, it's possible there is some pandering going on here, given the current climate. But I think the quality of the series will speak for itself. If the show is good, it doesn't matter. If it's a massive human shitbomb dropped from 40 feet onto a fan into a room full of people with compromised immune systems like the Ghostbusters movie was, then it's a different story.

 

[AfricanKing]

Who is "we"?

Minorities

 

[Cunth]

How many diversity points does this win?

 

[Dunki]

I admit, it's possible there is some pandering going on here, given the current climate. But I think the quality of the series will speak for itself. If the show is good, it doesn't matter. If it's a massive human shitbomb dropped from 40 feet onto a fan into a room full of people with compromised immune systems like the Ghostbusters movie was, then it's a different story.

Actually it does matter the politial climate plays a big role because these kind of series gets rated based on their progressiveness. We have seen this with Ghostbusters, With Last Jedi, Black Panther and many others. So when these movies gets praised people also expect something good. If this does not hold up you will get another backlash. And honestly giving how the market this movie already does not want to make me watch it.

Look how they did advertise Ghostbusters for example

'And I am already out. If your pitch is that women are working on the movie you have already lost. This is not something that needs to be praised. This is something normal.

 

[michaelius]

I don't like agreeing with her on any topic.

Still it feels like poetic justice. She championed exactly what they are doing with Buffy to happen to video games. Now she is protesting when it happens to something she actually cares about.

 

[Spheyr]

Maybe minorities just need to get better at acting

 

[Breakage]

What's the point of these race and gender reboots? Are young black girls going to think "Black Buffy inspires me; now I want to be a vampire slayer". How many young women watched the recently rebooted (and quite silly looking) all female Ocean's 8 and thought "you know, this really inspires me to be a professional thief".

This is just another case of xyz show/film is horribly white (or male), so let's reboot it under the rubric of "diversity" to make it better.

 

[Papa]

What's the point of these race and gender reboots? Are young black girls going to think "Black Buffy inspires me; now I want to be a vampire slayer". How many young women watched the recently rebooted (and quite silly looking) all female Ocean's 8 and thought "you know, this really inspires me to be a professional thief".

This is just another case of xyz show/film is horribly white (or male), so let's reboot it under the rubric of "diversity" to make it better.

That’s pretty much the core of the issue. The reason we object to minoritywashing is not because we don’t like minorities; it’s because it’s done for transparent political reasons. If they were genuinely doing it for altruistic reasons, they would either do a spin-off or write a new show altogether. That would give the minority character a chance to develop and do its own thing instead of existing under the specter of the original. Instead, they just want to memoryhole the original and send a message that it wasn’t done right the first time, so now they’re going to fix it.