1 year later: your thoughts on Star Fox Zero

What The Forest Taught Me said:
It was, hopefully, one of the last holdovers from Miyamoto's pestilent "I'm going to make what I want---I don't care what kind of game fans want" era of Nintendo. When you put out half-hearted products that also constitute the very opposite of what the fanbase has been asking for for years, you deserve all of the accompanying critical backlash and disastrous sales figures. Kimishima did the right thing in soft-demoting him. He knew the guy's philosophies had become regressive, inhibiting, and toxic. I'm happy Koizumi and Takahashi are running the show now. Miyamoto can stick to theme parks...
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I'm not sure that's quite an accurate characterization, given that Miyamoto himself reversed course with the Wii, as described here and here (Okamoto: "Wii Play, Wii Sports, Wii Fit, and Wii Music were all part of Miyamoto's connected 'Wii Project.' One day, Miyamoto gathered producers and directors in EAD and showed us how we were going to group together and sell the various prototypes...").

While it was commercially successful, of course, it certainly did alienate many hardcore gamers, so I can certainly understand where you're coming from. Also 'soft-demoting' doesn't sound quite right either, considering the level of coordination involved, including Miyamoto's public comments about retirement, starting in 2011.
 
Hylian7 said:
I realize that, I guess I am one of few people that had no beef with the controls. The handholding, linearity, and empty world though, were major issues.
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Don't forget the insane amount of padding and repetition (redoing dungeons, fighting the same boss with minimal differences).
 
The game looks great and really gave me a nostalgic-yet-still-fresh vibe.. but those controls killed it for me.. It's a crying shame, really.
 
Fun game but yea, just like Kid Icarus this would've been 100X better with standard controls. I finished a standard route and never went back to it.

Also, my copy of Slippy Toads Backyard BBQ or whatever it was called is still sealed.
 
Almost amazing...just those darn controls. Still enjoyed all other aspects and felt like a proper follow-up to 64.

But, luckily Nintendo understood the control issue, so I'm hoping for a Switch release with standard controls. There's no more 2nd-screening on the new console, and whether this is true or not, they removed 2nd screen functionality from BoTW because they said it is distracting - but that could be an excuse because of the Switch release...BUT, they obviously went away from 2nd screen so a new Star Fox would have a different control scheme anyway.

robot said:
Also, my copy of Slippy Toads Backyard BBQ or whatever it was called is still sealed.
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I chuckled.
 
I loved this game, even the controls for the most part, though they could have been a bit more polished.

Unfortunately I don't think that this game really lived up to its potential due to the rush to get it out the door. It could have done with some more top quality levels, more story, and an online versus mode would have been AMAZING! The game was at its best during the the dogfighting sections, so it's a real shame that we never got the opportunity to do this against other humans.

In an alternate universe where the Wii U wasn't such an abject failure, this game would have gotten the time and budget to be a real top tier Nintendo release.

Despite some uneven quality, for me it is one of the games that absolutely defines/epitomizes the Wii U, along with W101 and Pikmin 3.
 
Schopenhauerian said:
I'm not sure that's quite an accurate characterization, given that Miyamoto himself reversed course with the Wii, as described here and here (Okamoto: "Wii Play, Wii Sports, Wii Fit, and Wii Music were all part of Miyamoto's connected 'Wii Project.' One day, Miyamoto gathered producers and directors in EAD and showed us how we were going to group together and sell the various prototypes...").

While it was commercially successful, of course, it certainly did alienate many hardcore gamers, so I can certainly understand where you're coming from. Also 'soft-demoting' doesn't sound quite right either, considering the level of coordination involved, including Miyamoto's public comments about retirement, starting in 2011.
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In Japan, we refer to what happened with Miyamoto's position change within the company as a sort of combination promotion-but-not-really-"soft-demotion" for senior, respected members of a company that have made too many bad decisions. It helps with saving face. Executive leadership saw the destructive pattern, and removed him in a face-saving fashion. It's a common practice at companies in the region.
 
Spring-Loaded said:
I disagree; even when fully grasping the controls, they aren't ideal and can be fundamentally unintuitive for some people. Even SF speedrunners were put off by the imprecision.
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Mark Brown mentioned this, referring to speed/score-runner ‘zallard1’ at the 11-minute mark, in the video mentioned earlier in the thread:
PyroPaperPlanes said:
Game Maker's Toolkit, Mark Brown, has a video on Star Fox Zero. He analyses what Nintendo and Platinum were trying to pull off with the Gamepad, where it succeeded, and where it failed. It's a good video, check it out: https://youtu.be/m544qfVMIPs
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Though it's also interesting to note that zallard1 posted a lengthy follow-up comment, on Brown's video:
zallard1 said:
Nice video! It's also worth noting that the tweets you quoted of mine were right around when the game had first released. I have since gotten used to a lot more of the quirks the game has. I don't launch bombs accidentally any more, but maneuvers like somersault/u-turn still have unnecessary mappings on the sticks that speed/score runners still struggle with. I also dislike barrel rolls being mapped to the right stick, but I do sort of see their reasoning in mapping it there. I believe they wanted all the maneuvers and movements to be accessible from both analog sticks only, and shots being accessible from the triggers only. That way you don't have to hold the controller "claw style" to break/boost & shoot at the same time, which is something you would have to do in SF64 often for score. I would still prefer other custom mappings, but I'm not as critical on them as I was very early on the game's release. If anything, I just wish I could disable the u-turn/somersault mappings on the sticks and just have them be "only" mapped to B/X. Control options should always be included though. They never really hurt, and I doubt people would have complained about the slight decrease in accuracy for the ability to use an intuitive controller.

Personally though, I actually find the dual screen thing not a huge problem anymore, same goes for the gyro aiming. Granted, I do most of my aiming on the cockpit screen as a result. I pretty much use the 3rd person screen as a way to recognize how far stuff is away from me, which in turn does mean that screen doesn't get my attention nearly as often. It's sort of the "rear-view mirror" of the game if that makes any sense. What's truly bizarre though, is if you launch "Co-Op" mode, they allow you to play through whatever stage you pick, but can control everything with a Pro controller! But shockingly, you cannot use chargeshots/upgrades/bombs on that controller at all; it's only accessible on the gamepad buttons. It's kind of a tease because I guess no one would use the gamepad anymore if had the same functionality but all mapped to a comfortable controller, haha. Anyways that's all I have to say for the moment. Feel free to ask me questions if anyone still happens to have any!
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Around a month ago, I decided to play some more Star Fox Zero just to see how I felt about it after some time had passed. Basically, I can't get over the controls. I've tried and tried and tried and I just can't get into it. It's such a shame, too, because I love Star Fox and waited so long for another entry in the series, but shit, those controls are a mess. I still enjoy everything else about the game; presentation, visuals, sound. If Nintendo re-released the game for Switch with regular controls, I'd be all over it in a second.
 
Looking back, I'm mixed on the game:

- Liked gyro aiming, but disliked the dual screen. Gyro should have worked like Splatoon.
- Liked the graphics and presentation.
- Disliked that it was a retread of a 20-year old snes game. I really disliked that.

Anybody else think that this game will get a follow-up on Switch? I think Zero was a low-effort title meant to bolster the Wii U's release calendar. I don't think Nintendo will draw any long-term conclusions from its performance. In fact, an ambitious return-to-form entry in the franchise might be especially well received exactly because Zero was so underwhelming. It could be the BotW to Zero's SS.
Ah who am I kidding? It's dead, Jim.
 
While the game itself isn't offensive as yet another remake of 64, the controls are absolute garbage. I borrowed the game from a friend, he got it back after my playthrough and I never touched the game again. So much emphasis was put on the gamepad, and it utterly destroys a good game that's in there. Miyamoto for me outright failed to deliver anything at all and if anything, it destroyed the remaining interest I had in dual screen gaming in a console the way Nintendo kept pushing it as the next big thing.
 
It took me like five minutes to get used to the controls.

The real issues are that there are not enough on-rails missions and that the boss battles are universally garbage. Still better than every Star Fox game not named 64.
 
I like gimmicky controls as I don't feel that every game should be the same, but there wasn't a whole lot of fun to be had in this game. People who don't like the controls simply have an axe to grind for whatever reason.

I don't think 64 is that great either, and I don't think they've ever truly matched the original SNES version.
 
I'm still feeling pretty much the same as I did a year ago.
It's got this really solid base but never gets to reach its full potential, there are moments where the on the go transformations, classic style gameplay and even the unorthodox control schemes really show promise but the complete package is over way too soon and all over the place in terms of quality.

It feels like the kind of game that appears at a console launch that tries to show off all the new gimmicks except it instead appeared at the end of the console, I don't dislike the game, I actually enjoyed it enough but man, the feeling that it could've been something more will always stick out.

....I also liked the chicken walker even with its intentionally cumbersome control, that was oddly part of the fun for me.
 
It sucks. One of the biggest disappointments I've ever wasted 20 bucks on. I wanted to like it. I tried to like it. For a bit I was able to trick myself into the "Well once you get used to the controls it's not so bad, there's a decent game behind them!" mindset. But even that's not true. Of course, the controls are just plain fucking bad. Nintendo clearly had this vision of this being the defining, two-screen experience that you can only have on the Wii U, and it just doesn't work. I think they were so married to the idea and concept though that they wouldn't let it go. That said, even if they gave it an option for pro-controls, it's still not a good game. It's like 75% a crappy remake of Star Fox 64, and 25% new stuff that just isn't fun. The new vehicles were a chore to learn and play. The enemies all had dumb new HIT ME HERE weak spots. Fox and Friends were all especially badly designed characters in this one too. I just don't like it.

Gaurd was kinda okay.
 
Still pissed I wasted $80 CDN on it. They were SO FUCKING CLOSE to making another Star Fox 64, but had to go and ruin it with terrible controls and any part of the game that wasn't on-rails.
 
Terrible terrible concept from Miyamoto. But he may have been forced to validate that GamePad some how. It's a shame that it was the core programmers of the original N64 game too. But most of the ideas were just terrible on this.
 
Super Flawed!

Some very neat concepts with poor execution. A friend of I played it one night drinking the whole time and alternating between stages. It was SUPER FUN.

However it was mostly fun to just watch each other struggle with the controls and brute force our way through it fighting agains the controls.

The last boss crushed us, but after watching a few youtube videos I beat it the following day.

Couldn't recommend ANYONE playing it outside of the context in which I experienced it. Under these circumstances it was awesome.
 
nynt9 said:
Pretty decent game, but light on content compared to some of its predecessors, and the controls are abject garbage. That the company who added so many control schemes to Pikmin 3 didn't patch this with different controls despite the backlash really lends credence to Bosman's notion about how the game tried really hard to justify the gamepad.
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Surely you're vastly underestimating the care that goes into making a game like this. It's a game that's all about enemy formation and placement, and it's all tuned to the gyro controls.

Patching in dual analog control would also involve re-engineering all of the enemy timings and placements, since you wouldn't be able to hit all the targets with a slower and less precise aiming method.
 
The controls were bad, but menagable

But on rails.... And having to play the same stage over and over and over to get medals...

Yeah, that was terrible

We need an Open Universe star fox. No more focus on hit numbers or medals.
 
schopaia said:
Surely you're vastly underestimating the care that goes into making a game like this. It's a game that's all about enemy formation and placement, and it's all tuned to the gyro controls.

Patching in dual analog control would also involve re-engineering all of the enemy timings and placements, since you wouldn't be able to hit all the targets with a slower and less precise aiming method.
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Well the entire game was built with the gyro in mind. A mistake. Playing the game with analogue controls would make it much worse. That's why it sucks.
 
It has been 1 year already ?

I still persist the game shouldn't have been released with those controls.
It's a shame because the game is not that bad looking ( average ) and it kinda want to drown me in nostalgia and it would have worked if they didn't do their best to divert my attention on the way i'm supposed to play this game.

I understand the logic for the controls , but playing like that , i didn't have fun.

If i don't have fun playing your game then it's a failure in my eyes.

Also the game felt like it was padding to much while i wanted to get new stuff.. Does this game trully wanted me to have fun ? 1 year later i still doubt it.
 
I think the game was alright, but it could have been a lot better. And the controls took a lot to get used to, and I think I would have enjoyed it more with more traditional controls.
 
I went from amazingly hyped from it's announcement to completely burned by release and it hasn't improved with age. The controls are some of the worst in a major Nintendo title for me. It makes me so happy that their main focus isn't some gimmick like a second screen or a bunch of forced waggle nonsense with Switch.

We probably won't see Star Fox again for a long time. It might be for the best since most of the time they just remake the same game over and over again anyway.
 
I feel much worse about it than I did when it released, because at least then I had a motivation to keep playing it. I had that drive to get to know the game fully, even if I wasn't enjoying it. Now that that's no longer there, I just have no interest in ever replaying it again. Looking back I can see that the absolute only thing that kept me playing longer than an hour was "I just spent $50 on this, maybe it'll get fun if I keep trying."

It wasn't even really the controls, even though I think they were needlessly complicated and clumsy. I got to the point where I was getting decent scores and passing things comfortably. The game is just bland, recycled and uninteresting. Take the novelty of the Miyamoto's last-ditch-effort-to-make-the-gamepad-useful controls away, which isn't even worth that much to begin with, and the game is the most half assed and generic SF64 clone it can be. The Andross fight is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. They couldn't bother to come up with something totally new? Even with such a radically different control scheme? And pretty much everything involving the gyrowing or robot is as fun as getting your teeth drilled.

The game is a total piece of shit compared to Sin and Punishment 2, and thank god that game was made. It pretty much filled my Starfox needs in lieu of the actual series.
 
Despite having the game, I actually only played once and it was co-op. We switched between steering/aiming roles between levels and it was a blast! I never played it again but that's just because I ended up getting other games that took up my time. I'd love to go back to it, but I'm not so sure how I'll manage with the controls.

Anyone who wrote off the game because of the complex controls should try playing through it in co-op with a friend.
 
I had fun with it, definitely will come back to it at some point.

It's a nice rethinking of SF64, controls are hard to get at first, but like W101, once you get it, it becomes really enjoyable. You need to be willing to learn though.
 
It's just blah to me. It's slower and clunkier than Star Fox 64, missing the speedy pace, snappy gameplay, and overall sense of focus that made the game so great. The plot, character interactions, and dialogue didn't feel nearly as fun, fresh, or charming because of how closely retread they were. Even aside from the controls, playing it just made me wonder why I wasn't playing Star Fox 64. A reboot is what the series needed after how bloated it got, but... Not like this. If Platinum had more creative freedom and gave us something similar to Wonderful 101 in tone and scope we could've had something really special.

Also the dogfights and that mission where you had to stop the missile were just awful.
 
Altairax15 said:
can someone explain the second image?
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Well, um ...

cSyHoGN.gif
 
Worst star fox game by a mile. It's worse than Command because at least that had the nerve to try something completely different instead of masquerading as the best star fox game (and doing a piss poor job of it).

Pretty much the final nail in the coffin, feels like. I hate to be hyperbolic like that and while I love the franchise and its characters, really, zero was so fucking bad and I can't see the game recovering. It's had its Other M moment, and that makes me really fucking sad.

First paper Mario and now star fox, goddamn you Miyamoto
 
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