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[Faith]

PS4 has no snap feature. Snap requires GPU resources, since the snapped Metro app needs to render and display stuff. Why would PS4 need reserved GPU resources? It makes sense on XB1, it doesn't make much sense on PS4.

Because the PS4 will have similar multitasking features.

 

[Moral Panic]

KZ splits all the work up into scheduled jobs that are spread across all available CPU cores. It's a very efficient way of coding. It doesn't use dedicated threads/CPU cores for anything.

Is that possible? There has to be a main thread that keeps track of everything and splits the jobs right?

 

[ElTorro]

Because the PS4 will have similar multitasking features.

It doesn't have snap. A background app does not need display-related resources.

 

[adamsapple]

Was this posted ?

Digital Foundry's take on this news.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-xbox-one-cpu-speed-increased-in-production-hardware

The combination of the CPU performance increase in combination with its cluster of custom "Data Move Engines" strongly suggests that while PlayStation 4 has an undoubted graphics hardware advantage, the Xbox One's CPU capabilities are a significant step ahead

 

[TheKayle]

There you go Thekayle. read this before submitting any comment.

what i should read?

i know what bkillian explained him isnt a pro ms guy but still worked on the shape and is an audio engineer and sorry but i trust him more than what eltorro (with all of my respect for him) could say (well also if is not saying nothing againt what i said anyway )

 

[Chobel]

If we wanted to be that "precise", we should also recognize that the XB1's OS reserves 10% of GPU time (for snap), leaving 1,18TF for games.

Oh, snap!

Spoiler

pun intended

Now this stupid from Microsoft, they have the weaker GPU, why are they making it even weaker? just so I can see my friend face on screen? At least make it Optional.

 

[ElTorro]

i know what bkillian explained him isnt a pro ms guy but still worked on the shape and is an audio engineer and sorry but i trust him more than what eltorro (with all of my respect for him) could say (well also if is not saying nothing againt what i said anyway )

I am very sure that bkillian statements and my statement don't contradict each other. Quite the contrary.

 

[dr. apocalipsis]

Isn't it concerning that a system supposed to be in production is getting tweaks left and right to the CPU and GPU? I find it very strange that they're still dickin around with the system a couple of months before release.
Is this essentially overclocking? Which in turn will affect how hot the system gets, no?

Not at all.

Final clocks are only set when the retail parts enter in mass production.

Even Dreamcast only hit 200mhz on the final, retail, revision, getting 20mhz bumps in every revision earlier than that.

 

[Osiris]

what i should read?

i know what bkillian explained him isnt a pro ms guy but still worked on the shape and is an audio engineer and sorry but i trust him more than what eltorro (with all of my respect for him) could say (well also if is not saying nothing againt what i said anyway )

Hint, bkillian isn't the only audio engineer in the world, there's one right here, trying to clue you up a little.

 

[operon]

For voice chat you mean? From the vg leaks info it is far more than would be necessary for that.



Here's a thing: Microsoft doesn't talk about these things all that much either.

The people I've seen talking about these things a lot seem to be fans with an eye on trying to find compensation for a perceived lack elsewhere.

For example, making mountains out of the '15 processors' stuff. Most of which are completely ordinary/unspectacular things with analogs in PS4.

That seems to have been a running theme with Xbox One tech speculation - making the extraordinary out of the ordinary. It started early, when we had people hyping up 'extra processors' which turned out to be generic sub elements of any standard GCN GPU. And here we are again, trumping up '15 processors'...many of which are exceptionally vanilla things that are typical on any such SoC.

Maybe Sony or Cerny doesn't do this so much because they feel the system is comfortably more powerful, without needing to enumerate over every little piece of silicon on the die.

Surely the job of secret sauce is to make chips taste nice

 

[Phat Michael]

You're complaining because Microsoft took it upon themselves to destroy their goodwill with gamers? You reap what you sow.

I think you read something completely different to what i posted and just wanted to say your piece anyway.

Also, not that i even mentioned this, but listening to your audience and changing your strategies so as to make gamers happy is destroying good will? There have been loads of changes, lots of games announced, the indie programme, increases in performance of the console yet according to you they are STILL "destroying the goodwill with gamers"?

 

[cyberheater]

If we wanted to be that "precise", we should also recognize that the XB1's OS reserves 10% of GPU time (for snap), leaving 1,18TF for games.

I still can't believe that. I can't believe MS would squander 10% of it's GPU budget for snap. That figure has to be wrong.

Regarding Killzone audio, here's an interesting quote:

http://www.edge-online.com/features/killzone-shadow-fall-and-the-power-of-playstation-4/

Thanks for the info. Shows you how talented those devs are.

I remember ages ago Valve saying that this was like the holy grail of multicore work, and that having each core do a separate task was horrible and inefficient. Interesting stuff.

Yes. And PC programmers hardly ever do that. I'm hoping that next gen multi-core programming will force the PC devs to use multi-core cpus more efficiently. I already heard of one PC dev who is converting their PC game to next gen was forced to go back to the code and split up the functions across the CPU cores.

 

[TheKayle]

Was this posted ?

Digital Foundry's take on this news.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-xbox-one-cpu-speed-increased-in-production-hardware

The combination of the CPU performance increase in combination with its cluster of custom "Data Move Engines" strongly suggests that while PlayStation 4 has an undoubted graphics hardware advantage, the Xbox One's CPU capabilities are a significant step ahead

and you forget this too

"Audio-wise, Microsoft's hardware is also impressive, with DSP effects, mixing and other features effectively available for "free" to developers, where PS4's set-up only decodes compressed audio formats. It's understood that these hardware features are being incorporated into major middlewares"

 

[Endo Punk]

Was this posted ?

Digital Foundry's take on this news.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-xbox-one-cpu-speed-increased-in-production-hardware

The combination of the CPU performance increase in combination with its cluster of custom "Data Move Engines" strongly suggests that while PlayStation 4 has an undoubted graphics hardware advantage, the Xbox One's CPU capabilities are a significant step ahead

So Sony and MS have switched sides from last gen. But 360 with its GPU advantage came out the victor majority of the time with multiplats.

 

[JaggedSac]

Was this posted ?

Digital Foundry's take on this news.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-xbox-one-cpu-speed-increased-in-production-hardware

The combination of the CPU performance increase in combination with its cluster of custom "Data Move Engines" strongly suggests that while PlayStation 4 has an undoubted graphics hardware advantage, the Xbox One's CPU capabilities are a significant step ahead

Uh oh, DF shitstorm incoming. Hold onto your butts everybody.

 

[Brad Grenz]

You see, it's posts like this that cause you to be (justifiably) ridiculed.

You have no way of quantifying the amount of processing offloaded to the PS4's dedicated audio, so happily post a value that assumes no offloading at all?

Quite ridiculous.

He also assumes the PS4 CPU clockspeed and the OS reservation, neither of which we know, either or both of which could flip the math in the other direction.

Was this posted ?

Digital Foundry's take on this news.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-xbox-one-cpu-speed-increased-in-production-hardware

The combination of the CPU performance increase in combination with its cluster of custom "Data Move Engines" strongly suggests that while PlayStation 4 has an undoubted graphics hardware advantage, the Xbox One's CPU capabilities are a significant step ahead

Yes, and it was duly ridiculed for be preposterous garbage.

 

[Coxy]

and you forget this too

"Audio-wise, Microsoft's hardware is also impressive, with DSP effects, mixing and other features effectively available for "free" to developers, where PS4's set-up only decodes compressed audio formats. It's understood that these hardware features are being incorporated into major middlewares"

and it's already been pointed out that this is false

 

[ElTorro]

I still can't believe that. I can't believe MS would squander 10% of it's GPU budget for snap. That figure has to be wrong.

Why? They are running an entire Metro app in parallel to the game, after all.

To give a source:

1) Running: The game is loaded in memory and is fully running. The game has full access to the reserved system resources, which are six CPU cores, 90 percent of GPU processing power, and 5 GB of memory. The game is rendering full-screen and the user can interact with it.

http://kotaku.com/the-five-possible-states-of-xbox-one-games-are-strangel-509597078

/edit: "Full-screen" here means full resolution which is clear from the other four game states.

 

[cyberheater]

Was this posted ?

Digital Foundry's take on this news.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-xbox-one-cpu-speed-increased-in-production-hardware

The combination of the CPU performance increase in combination with its cluster of custom "Data Move Engines" strongly suggests that while PlayStation 4 has an undoubted graphics hardware advantage, the Xbox One's CPU capabilities are a significant step ahead

That's only true if the CPU clock speed in the PS4 stays at 1.6Ghz

/What feck am I doing. I posted for the wrong side then. Sorry.

 

[Skeff]

Was this posted ?

Digital Foundry's take on this news.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-xbox-one-cpu-speed-increased-in-production-hardware

The combination of the CPU performance increase in combination with its cluster of custom "Data Move Engines" strongly suggests that while PlayStation 4 has an undoubted graphics hardware advantage, the Xbox One's CPU capabilities are a significant step ahead

Does it need to be? It's Leadbetter. It's amazing that he can consider the CPU a significant step ahead for a potential 9.38% or whatever when he has stated a 50% GPU advantage (at the time) wouldn't make much of a difference.

 

[Chobel]

what i should read?

i know what bkillian explained him isnt a pro ms guy but still worked on the shape and is an audio engineer and sorry but i trust him more than what eltorro (with all of my respect for him) could say (well also if is not saying nothing againt what i said anyway )

That picture comes from The best book of designing games (actually game engine but whatever), And bkillian guy said 2 threads not 2 cores.

 

[Brad Grenz]

So Sony and MS have switched sides from last gen. But 360 with its GPU advantage came out the victor majority of the time with multiplats.

Except where PS3 had 100% more CPU flops, Xbox One has, optimistically, 9% more.

 

[cyberheater]

Why? They are running an entire Metro app in parallel to the game, after all.

Because it's such a waste of resource for a gaming machine.

 

[TheKayle]

and it's already been pointed out that this is false

from who?

 

[dr. apocalipsis]

PS4 has no snap feature. Snap requires GPU resources, since the snapped Metro app needs to render and display stuff. Why would PS4 need reserved GPU resources? It makes sense on XB1, it doesn't make much sense on PS4.

Doesn't has Xbone dedicated resources to handle that?

 

[Skeff]

I still can't believe that. I can't believe MS would squander 10% of it's GPU budget for snap. That figure has to be wrong.



Thanks for the info. Shows you how talented those devs are.



Yes. And PC programmers hardly ever do that. I'm hoping that next gen multi-core programming will force the PC devs to use multi-core cpus more efficiently. I already heard of one PC dev who is converting their PC game to next gen was forced to go back to the code and split up the functions across the CPU cores.

Planetside 2 or another game as well? looks good for all of gaming.

 

[ElTorro]

Because it's such a waste of resource for a gaming machine.

Well, to Microsoft it is more than a gaming machine, and apparently running apps in parallel to the game has value to them. And those Apps do quite a lot, like displaying video (Skype, live TV), animations, etc.

Doesn't has Xbone dedicated resources to handle that?

Only for plane scaling and compositing, that is, for combining two separately rendered display outputs.

 

[TheKayle]

That picture comes from The best book of designing games (actually game engine but whatever), And bkillian guy said 2 threads not 2 cores.

he said 2 / 3 threads

xenon could do 2 threads x core...(bkillian said also that xenon and this jaguar core...for audio works r completly comparable)

 

[cchum]

Does it need to be? It's Leadbetter. It's amazing that he can consider the CPU a significant step ahead for a potential 9.38% or whatever when he has stated a 50% GPU advantage (at the time) wouldn't make much of a difference.

Not to stir the pot....but if PS4 is really HUMA.....wouldn't that completely make up for the "data move engines"? AKA the data would not even need to be shuffled to the GPU, as it would just stay in the same location anyway?

 

[Klocker]

I still can't believe that. I can't believe MS would squander 10% of it's GPU budget for snap. That figure has to be wrong.



.

allegedly 360 has a similar reservation so while I generally trust el torros assessments I'm not sure he is correct on this one. I also heard ps4 will most likely have similar reserves to xbone

 

[tensuke]

Planetside 2 or another game as well? looks good for all of gaming.

Yes, but PS2 wasn't very well optimized on PCs anyway, so it needed this sooner or later.

 

[Ce-Lin]

Was this posted ?

Digital Foundry's take on this news.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-xbox-one-cpu-speed-increased-in-production-hardware

The combination of the CPU performance increase in combination with its cluster of custom "Data Move Engines" strongly suggests that while PlayStation 4 has an undoubted graphics hardware advantage, the Xbox One's CPU capabilities are a significant step ahead

yes it was posted, can't wait for Richard's bitter tears when the first titles taking advantage of the PS4 superior hardware (not fanboy, just plain data available to everyone) start taking the crown in his "face-off's" articles.

 

[ElTorro]

That picture comes from The best book of designing games (actually game engine but whatever), And bkillian guy said 2 threads not 2 cores.

People misunderstand that. bkilian said that Forza 4 uses two threads. My guess would be that they dynamically compute engine sounds based on rev and other variables. As I said, audio load is not a static thing that is equal to all games. Some games might not do much dynamic audio at all.

 

[Chobel]

he said 2 / 3 threads

xenon could do 2 threads x core...(bkillian said also that xenon and this jaguar core...for audio works r completly comparable)

Xenon can do 6 thread max on parallel, thread doesn't mean 1/2 core.

 

[TheKayle]

People misunderstand that. bkilian said that Forza 4 uses two threads. My guess would be that they dynamically compute engine sounds based on rev and other variables. As I said, audio load is not a static thing that is equal to all games. Some games might not do much dynamic audio at all.

two threads or 1 core....im going to search ...sorry if im wrong going..

anyway si ..clearly not all games use/need the same resource..he did the example with forza coz is one of the most needing..i think

 

[digoutyoursoul]

yes it was posted, can't wait for Richard's bitter tears when the first titles taking advantage of the PS4 superior hardware (not fanboy, just plain data available to everyone) start taking the crown in his "face-off's" articles.

And will the cringeworthy bias claims stop then ?

 

[Coxy]

from who?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=79910265&postcount=1600

Digital Foundry just wanted to hear only, probably in the same way they heard seven

 

[JaggedSac]

yes it was posted, can't wait for Richard's bitter tears when the first titles taking advantage of the PS4 superior hardware (not fanboy, just plain data available to everyone) start taking the crown in his "face-off's" articles.

To be fair, the last paragraph mentioned the PS4 still being more powerful.

 

[TheKayle]

Xenon can do 6 thread max on parallel, thread doesn't mean 1/2 core.

if im not wrong xenon have 2 threads x core

is a three core chip ...6 threads cycle

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Richard Leadbetter is at it again. Oh boy.

 

[beast786]

So if I am reading you guys.

Total CPU capability

Xb1>ps4?

 

[stryke]

allegedly 360 has a similar reservation so while I generally trust el torros assessments I'm not sure he is correct on this one. I also heard ps4 will most likely have similar reserves to xbone

where?

 

[KidBeta]

if im not wrong xenon have 2 threads x core

is a three core chip ...6 threads cycle

Except thats not really how it works entirely, just because your using 2 threads doesn't say anything about how much of the CPU core your using in any way shape or form.

 

[Chobel]

two threads or 1 core....im going to search ...sorry if im wrong going..

2 threads =/= 1 core, now in your computer you're using many threads. and if you look at your Task manager you won't see 100% cpu usage. You Pc have max 4 cores. (8 if you're i7)

Spoiler

Guys excuse my poor word selection, I'm trying to simplify to Thekayle

 

[TheKayle]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=79910265&postcount=1600

Digital Foundry just wanted to hear only, probably in the same way they heard seven

well that dosnt explain a lots of whatelse the dsp do..cmon is this hard to admit than on audio ps4 still need the cpu for some stuff?

 

[twobear]

So if I am reading you guys.

Total CPU capability

Xb1>ps4?

Ceteris paribus, the difference is so marginal as to be barely worth mentioning. It is not a meaningful improvement.

 

[Chobel]

well that dosnt explain a lots of whatelse the dsp do..cmon is this hard to admit than on audio ps4 still need the cpu for some stuff?

Only needs if developers want too. If they don't care about sound quality then they won't use CPU and only use mp3 sound.

 

[TheKayle]

Ceteris paribus, the difference is so marginal as to be barely worth mentioning. It is not a meaningful improvement.

really lol

ok with this im done...

 

[Pistolero]

someone did the math for me

(6 * 1.75) / (5 * 1.6) * 100% = 131.25% (31.25% advantage)

just taking only in consideration that shape can free up one core or more (as someone in the know said!)

if not 10% advantage

It's actually an infinite advantage for the Xbox One. Let me explain :

SHAPE requires the whole rack of jaguar cores. For the PS4 to match this wowzer awesome secret sauce, it must dedicate all of its CPU resources, which will leave it powerless. From 0 to 8 (or even 6) CPU cores corresponds to infinity!

 

[Coxy]

well that dosnt explain a lots of whatelse the dsp do..cmon is this hard to admit than on audio ps4 still need the cpu for some stuff?

the fact it doesnt explain it doesnt mean you get to fill in the gap in information with unicorns and faeries