150Mhz CPU boost on XBO, now in production

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Guys, seriously?!!?
Surely, we are here arguing about insignificant shit in the grand scheme of things.

We love to debate and have fun but do you think 85% of people out there, i.e. "johny COD box," give a rats ass about audio chips, and 8 more frame rates on one versus the other?

All the hardcore users make up about 1-3 million in sales, if that?
 
Ding said:
Nice strawman. Who says a 40% gap isn't significant? Anyone saying that is clearly deluded and should be ignored.

I will say that taking a 40% CU advantage and equating that to a "40% better console", or "40% more frame rate", or really 40% more anything is a step too far. Ditto for "9% more CPU". It's just not that simple. The GPUs aren't the same. The CPUs may not be the same. The various co-processors aren't the same. The memory architecture is not the same. And most importantly, games won't always be able to take advantages of the hardware capabilities that either console may have. e.g. If your game is not GPU bound, having more GPU does nothing to improve that game's performance.

Of course the same is true of the CPU. If I game is not CPU-bound, having more CPU doesn't help a bit.
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What are you talking about? The CPUs are exactly the same, the GPUs are of the same architecture.
 
IN&OUT said:
I know that's highly unlikely scenario since this would bring PS4 performance to 2.5+TF. but I agree that would be a very rackless thing to do unless Sony have some sort of wizardry .
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Thruway was quoted at saying Sony where targeting 2.5tflops....this was around the time of the GDDR5 memory allocation conversations.
 
onQ123 said:
So are we adding the Xbox One Audio Chip into mix but ignoring the PS4 Secondary Custom Chip?

I'm sure the Secondary Chip in the PS4 will be handling a few things that the Xbox One is going to need CPU\GPU resource to handle.
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We're not ignoring anything. At least not on purpose. There's a lot to keep track of, and a lot that we haven't even been told about.

From what I heard, speculation mostly, the "Second Custom Chip" is just used for encryption (DRM) and has a very low power (ARM?) CPU that can handle things like downloads and installs, while the rest of the PS4 is "off". That sounds great, and if it can be used while the console is "on" might allow some tiny bit of load to be taken off the "real" CPU. But, I don't get the impression that it has capabilities that even approach that of the various XB1 audio co-processors.

I could be wrong, but that's the impression I've gotten.
 
Is it just me or is Leadbetter on the edge on having a full blown meltdown any day now? I hope Eurogamer either straightens him out or cans him before he ruins more of their credibility.
 
Vizzeh said:
Thruway was quoted at saying Sony where targeting 2.5tflops....this was around the time of the GDDR5 memory allocation conversations.
Click to expand...

They're planning to release a patch years down the line that would up the clocks up so that the system is 2.5 teraflops.

EDIT:

According to Thuway.
 
nib95 said:
Evenly matched when it's a 40% difference in gpu power. Significant advantage when it's a 10% cpu advantage.
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We are looking at 7~ years of Digital Foundry complaining that devs aren't taking advantage of the 10% clock difference.
 
Skeff said:
Exact wording was "Very evenly matched"
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Leadbetter is very bias that Eurogamer couldn't hide it no more, in his article he ignored basically all PS4 advantages Shaders,ROPs ,ALU's and went straight ahead to audio chip, it's seriously sad to read. he is SO desperate to up the performance of X1 close to PS4 at all costs. funny and sad.
 
schennmu said:
So according to DF the X1 now has a significant CPU advantage. Dat Leadbetter.
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Of course he did.

i-dont-know-what-i-expected-gif.gif
 
IN&OUT said:
I have that strange feeling that Sony upclocked PS4 CPU/GPU combination to 2ghz/1ghz respectively. I remember Eurogamer posting something in March about rumored upclock of PS4 CPU.
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Would love for this to be true, but I don't see it happening.

Proelite said:
They're planning to release a patch years down the line that would up the clocks up so that the system is 2.5 teraflops.
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That's what Thuway had said, but I don't see it happening.
 
IN&OUT said:
Leadbetter is very bias that Eurogamer couldn't hide it no more, in his article he ignored basically all PS4 advantages Shaders,ROPs ,ALU's and went straight ahead to audio chip, it's seriously sad to read. he is SO desperate to up the performance of X1 close to PS4 at all costs. funny and sad.
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Or the article was about the CPUs and not a comprehensive hardware comparison. Apparently we need he said she said journalists in video games too? Sad.
 
jett said:
We are looking at 7~ years of Digital Foundry complaining that devs aren't taking advantage of the 10% clock difference.
Click to expand...

No we are looking at:

PS4 version:

better IQ
More stable framerates
more particles
full HD
faster loading times
no pop ins


X1 version:
worse IQ
dips in FPS here and there.
no particles
sub HD
pop ins everywhere
screen tearing
BETTER AUDIO


WINNER: XBOX ONE
 
IN&OUT said:
No we are looking at:

PS4 version:

better IQ
More stable framerates
more particles
full HD
faster loading times
no pop ins


X1 version:
worse IQ
dips in FPS here and there.
no particles
sub HD
pop ins everywhere
screen tearing
BETTER AUDIO


WINNER: XBOX ONE
Click to expand...

Why would Xone have better audio?
 
Proelite said:
They're planning to release a patch years down the line that would up the clocks up so that the system is 2.5 teraflops.

EDIT:

According to Thuway.
Click to expand...
That is very difficult to believe. I don't know what kind of ramifications this will have on millions of PS4s that will be out in a few years.

Unless they've extensively stressed the system at 2.5TF and it's stable, this could go horribly wrong if true.

However, I would prefer if Sony gave us the most powerful system possible from day one. It's just better that way.
 
IN&OUT said:
No we are looking at:

PS4 version:

better IQ
More stable framerates
more particles
full HD
faster loading times
no pop ins


X1 version:
worse IQ
dips in FPS here and there.
no particles
sub HD
pop ins everywhere
screen tearing
BETTER AUDIO


WINNER: XBOX ONE
Click to expand...

If PS3 games had 7.1 PCM, what makes you think Xbox One will have better audio lol. Only reason XO needs more audio processing grunt is because of Kinect, which coupled with the OS is a greater resource and memory hog, not less.
 
Spongebob said:
Would love for this to be true, but I don't see it happening.
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Firstly I'd like to say I don't think that's true and I don't think Sony will be going for 1Ghz GPU clock, it would be insanely powerful compared to the competition. But they do actually have a precedent for it.

When making the PSP they checked all CPU's for tolerance at 333Mhz, however shipped the Product at 222Mhz to achieve better battery life as the Power at the time at 222Mhz was still incredibly powerful for a mobile Device, Later on in the lifecycle they actually enabled the 333Mhz. For the APU in the PS4 they could check tolerance for the desired clock speeds and would be able to give themselves more lee-way on the heating of the system as it would not need to survive 10 years at 2ghz/1ghz. only say 5 years at 1.6/.8 and 5 years at 2ghz/1ghz.

Although unlikely, it is certainly more likely than a dGPU in the XB1 and has precedent.
 
jett said:
What are you talking about? The CPUs are exactly the same, the GPUs are of the same architecture.
Click to expand...

Which makes me think we'll see PS4 @>1.6ghz as well. Seems like there is room for that. I know it may related to cooling as well, but compared to a desktop pcs both boxes are pretty small and close to each other.

But anyway, the impact of this OC will be really insignifcant. My i52500k runs @1.2ghz more, granted, that MAKES a difference, but it's also 10x the OC.
 
velociraptor said:
That is very difficult to believe. I don't know what kind of ramifications this will have on millions of PS4s that will be out in a few years.

Unless they've extensively stressed the system at 2.5TF and it's stable, this could go horribly wrong if true.

However, I would prefer if Sony gave us the most powerful system possible from day one. It's just better that way.
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Is that one of the 'insiders' who 'confirmed' the XB1 downclock?
 
velociraptor said:
That is very difficult to believe. I don't know what kind of ramifications this will have on millions of PS4s that will be out in a few years.

Unless they've extensively stressed the system at 2.5TF and it's stable, this could go horribly wrong if true.

However, I would prefer if Sony gave us the most powerful system possible from day one. It's just better that way.
Click to expand...

Yep, and if they have already done that, then why not go ahead and bump it up now? Perhaps they will bump it up in a hardware revision down the line. Which would also be a good impetus for people to buy it again down the line.
 
Proelite said:
They're planning to release a patch years down the line that would up the clocks up so that the system is 2.5 teraflops.

EDIT:

According to Thuway.
Click to expand...

ROFL!!!!!!!


No way... That has to be a misinterpretation of what he said, because if he really said something like that lol

nib95 said:
Interesting. Wonder why he handed in his notice?

Also SenjutsuSage, why did you think he still worked for Sony?
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Pretty certain I had recent confirmation that he's hands on with PS4 hardware and actually developing for the hardware, but if that's right I suppose I'm mistaken. In that case, he was a Sony first party dev up until a few weeks after E3. Guess he moved on then. Well, at least you guys can see that he was a game programmer at Sony, and his experience is aplenty, so there should be no doubt that he knows what he's talking about.
 
jett said:
What are you talking about? The CPUs are exactly the same, the GPUs are of the same architecture.
Click to expand...

There's a lot more to the pipeline than just those two components. One system isn't 40% faster than another unless every single link of the chain is also 40% faster.

At the current tally, PS4 has a 40% GPU advantage while the Xbox has 10% CPU advantage and 50% CPU-to-memory bandwidth advantage (20GB/s vs. 30GB/s). That's not counting the rest of the subsystem differences like eSRAM and GDDR vs DDR and whatnot. Different games will benefit each architecture differently.
 
Thrakier said:
Which makes me think we'll see PS4 @>1.6ghz as well. Seems like there is room for that. I know it may related to cooling as well, but compared to a desktop pcs both boxes are pretty small and close to each other.

But anyway, the impact of this OC will be really insignifcant. My i52500k runs @1.2ghz more, granted, that MAKES a difference, but it's also 10x the OC.
Click to expand...

According to precious articles at 1.6ghz both consoles had underclocked CPUs. That is, they were running slower than they were intended to. So yea, there's definitely room for an upclock.
 
nib95 said:
According to precious articles at 1.6ghz both consoles had underclocked CPUs. That is, they were running slower than they were intended to. So yea, there's definitely room for an upclock.
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The total power draw of the CPU is extremely low anyway. I think they can safely overclock the CPU to 1.8Ghz.
 
Yeah, normally I'd say that maybe MS is sourcing higher binned CPUs to allow for a higher clock speed, but that's highly unlikely considering these are both APUs.
 
SenjutsuSage said:
ROFL!!!!!!!


No way... That has to be a misinterpretation of what he said, because if he really said something like that lol
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His entire post:

"Originally Posted by thuway
Thank you Kagari.
I hope this puts an end to the GAF hive mind. Stop trying to compose a narrative where the RAM available on PS4 is somehow compromising vision for next generation titles. Famousmortimer, Bruce, Verendus, and I have all heard:
This cannot be repeated enough. No matter how many times this was said, there is "disappointment" and an insistence that Sony is crafting a machine that isn't focused on gaming. Stop it GAF.
WITH THIS SAID: There are games in development that are using 6 GB of RAM. I will not say any more about this.
I will say: the RAM situation on launch, will not reflect the RAM situation in two years, and not reflect the RAM situation at the end of the console's life cycle.
Another hint I've been trying to drop is that there is potential for an upclock a few years into the console life cycle for both Xbox One and PS4. This can give a late generation graphics boost similar to the one on PSP. (Optimistic parrot hopes for a 2.4 TF 1 GHZ GPU)
Finally,
GAF, I love you, but sometimes you have to understand people can be wrong. I've been wrong, yes, I'm sorry, but I have never personally tried to mislead anyone. Leadbetter has done incredible work on reporting the ins and outs of these machines, and is an amazing source of knowledge. I've chatted with him personally about 4k gaming and where we see the future of graphics. Do not make Leadbetter out to be some console fanboy that is getting paid in Kinnects."
 
Hey Guys! :D
want to bring me up to date on whats going on.... how is the Xbox One Cpu compared to the PS4... and what are our good friends at Digital Foundry brewing up for a next
Friday-ton this time

Edit: Never mind came up to speed... hu -boy!... I just can't
 
artist said:
150MHz faster CPU, Shape, 15 processors, 47MB on-chip storage, cloud, Move engines ..
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Lol, you don't need all that for HQ audio. It's like people are asleep to the fact that PS3 had 7.1 PCM games. That's pretty much the best SQ you're going to get. As I mentioned before, the only reason the XO has these things is because of Kinect. Voice commands and all the rest are going to be more demanding and as such it has these inclusions to help out. QUOTE me later if you want, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if even with these additions (of which the PS4 still has more games advantageous customisations) the XO still reserves more ram, cpu and gpu resources for non gaming stuff compared to the PS4.
 
Skeff said:
PSP says hello.
Click to expand...

A handheld system such as a PSP is no PS4. That's complete and utter nonsense that there would be such a massive upclock years into the system already being released for retail with no major consequences.

This is even crazier in some respects than people who believe the Xbox One is hiding a second, much more powerful GPU based on Volcanic Islands.
 
If Sony's confident enough to pack all that in such a small case, I think they probably can one up MS and upclock the CPU as well. Maybe they don't see this upclock as a threat and won't bother to change anything.
 
IN&OUT said:
if that's their stance, then no credibility at all to their future Face-offs

its a comedy nonetheless.
Click to expand...

What are you guys smoking? All I see is a tweet asking how they know that the gameplay video is off a PS4. That seems a perfectly valid question, as we know that the HUD elements don't always actually correspond to the platforms the games are running on.
 
Ateron said:
If Sony's confident enough to pack all that in such a small case, I think they probably can one up MS and upclock the CPU as well. Maybe they don't see this upclock as a threat and won't bother to change anything.
Click to expand...

If Sony upclocks, I'm sure it isn't in response to an MS upclocking. They will have upclocked because they can afford to do so easily.
 
nib95 said:
According to precious articles at 1.6ghz both consoles had underclocked CPUs. That is, they were running slower than they were intended to. So yea, there's definitely room for an upclock.
Click to expand...

velociraptor said:
The total power draw of the CPU is extremely low anyway. I think they can safely overclock the CPU to 1.8Ghz.
Click to expand...

There is no intended clock speed for CPUs other than 'as fast as possible given a certain TDP'. The PS4 has much smaller volume which affects thermals much differently to the Xbox One.

Overclocking a CPU in a full tower PC case with a large heatsink doesn't affect noise that much but it's a whole different ballgame in a small form-factor PC designed around a certain TDP. And being an SoC increases the risk of issues manifold. The fact that Xbox gets such a modest upgrade makes me skeptical that Sony will be able to do the same.
 
SenjutsuSage said:
A handheld system such as a PSP is no PS4. That's complete and utter nonsense that there would be such a massive upclock years into the system already being released for retail with no major consequences.

This is even crazier in some respects than people who believe the Xbox One is hiding a second, much more powerful GPU based on Volcanic Islands.
Click to expand...

Well to go to 2.4Tflops it would be 33% upclock compared to the PSP's 50% upclock.

Even crazier than than dGPU, yea ok...

Like I said, i don't think it will happen, but to call it crazier than a dGPU in the XB1 is a pretty poor decision.
 
SenjutsuSage said:
A handheld system such as a PSP is no PS4. That's complete and utter nonsense that there would be such a massive upclock years into the system already being released for retail with no major consequences.

This is even crazier in some respects than people who believe the Xbox One is hiding a second, much more powerful GPU based on Volcanic Islands.
Click to expand...

Nah I think I did read someone said Xbox One's PSU actually is a second GPU.

That's crazy. No matter if joke or real.
 
Skeff said:
Well to go to 2.4Tflops it would be 33% upclock compared to the PSP's 50% upclock.

Even crazier than than dGPU, yea ok...

Like I said, i don't think it will happen, but to call it crazier than a dGPU in the XB1 is a pretty poor decision.
Click to expand...

I said in SOME respects it's crazier, and it is... If there's some magical dGPU hidden in the XB!, at least it would have been there all along, but kept a secret. In this case, for a console such as the PS4, in what seems like a casing that doesn't lend itself well to such massive overclocks, people really think that there's any chance in hell Sony would release the PS4 with clocks at 1.6GHZ for the CPU and 800MHZ for the GPU, and then suddenly years down the road magically raise the clocks to 2GHZ on the CPU and 1GHZ on the GPU without any consideration of what this could do to consoles already out in the wild?

Like I said, this is in some respects even more insane than believing Microsoft are hiding a dGPU inside the Xbox One lol, but this shouldn't be confused to mean I'm saying that both aren't absolutely insane, because they are.

iceatcs said:
Nah I think I did read someone said Xbox One's PSU actually is a second GPU.

That's crazy. No matter if joke or real.
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Damn... and people give me crap for saying I think the ESRAM's lower latency will be good for xbox one performance :P
 
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