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1911 - 100 Years of Handgun Perfection

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http://www.m1911.org/
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The point of this thread is to discuss the 1911. The 1911 is generally considered to be the best handgun ever made, both in form and function it has changed very little since it was first marketed in 1911. It served more than half a century (and still does for some units) in the United States and many other countries armed forces.

Think of that a 100 year old gun is still being used by military's the world over. This is the arguably the masterpiece of John M. Browning (only problem is that Browing was also arguably the greatest gun designer of the 19th/20th century so the man made a lot of great guns.


Some boiler plate history.
Early history and adoption
The M1911 pistol originated in the late 1890s, the result of a search for a suitable self-loading (or semi-automatic) handgun to replace the variety of revolvers then in service.[3] The United States of America was adopting new firearms at a phenomenal rate; several new handguns and two all-new service rifles (the M1892/96/98 Krag and M1895 Navy Lee), as well as a series of revolvers by Colt and Smith & Wesson for the Army and Navy were adopted just in that decade. The next decade would see a similar pace, including the adoption of several more revolvers and an intensive search for a self-loading pistol that would culminate in official adoption of the M1911 after the turn of the decade.

Hiram S. Maxim had designed a self-loading rifle in the 1880s, but was preoccupied with machine guns. Nevertheless, the application of his principle of using bullet energy to reload led to several self-loading pistols in 1896. The designs caught the attention of various militaries, each of which began programs to find a suitable one for their forces. In the U.S., such a program would lead to a formal test at the turn of the 19th to the 20th century.[4]
During the end of 1899 and start of 1900, a test of self-loading pistols was conducted, which included entries from Mauser (the C96 "Broomhandle"), Mannlicher (the Steyr Mannlicher M1894), and Colt (the Colt M1900).[3]

This led to a purchase of 1,000 DWM Luger pistols, chambered in 7.65 mm Luger, a bottlenecked cartridge. During field trials these ran into some issues, especially in regard to stopping power. Other governments had made similar complaints. Consequently, DWM produced an enlarged version of the round, the 9mm Parabellum (known in current military parlance as the 9x19mm NATO), a necked-up version of the 7.65 mm round. Fifty of these were tested as well by the U.S. Army in 1903.[5]

In response to problems encountered by American units fighting Moro guerrillas during the Philippine-American War, the then-standard Colt M1892 revolver, in .38 Long Colt, was found to be unsuitable for the rigors of jungle warfare, particularly in terms of stopping power, as the Moros had very high battle morale and frequently used drugs to inhibit the sensation of pain.[6] The U.S. Army briefly reverted to using the M1873 single-action revolver in .45 Colt caliber, which had been standard during the last decades of the 19th century; the heavier bullet was found to be more effective against charging tribesmen.[7] The problems with the .38 Long Colt led to the Army shipping new single action .45 Colt revolvers to the Philippines in 1902. It prompted the then-Chief of Ordnance, General William Crozier, to authorize further testing for a new service pistol.[7]

Following the 1904 Thompson-LaGarde pistol round effectiveness tests, Colonel John T. Thompson stated that the new pistol "should not be of less than .45 caliber" and would preferably be semi-automatic in operation.[7] This led to the 1906 trials of pistols from six firearms manufacturing companies (namely, Colt, Bergmann, Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken (DWM), Savage Arms Company, Knoble, Webley, and White-Merril).[7]
Of the six designs submitted, three were eliminated early on, leaving only the Savage, Colt, and DWM designs chambered in the new .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) cartridge.[7] These three still had issues that needed correction, but only Colt and Savage resubmitted their designs. There is some debate over the reasons for DWM's withdrawal—some say they felt there was bias and that the DWM design was being used primarily as a "whipping boy" for the Savage and Colt pistols,[8] though this does not fit well with the earlier 1900 purchase of the DWM design over the Colt and Steyr entries. In any case, a series of field tests from 1907 to 1911 were held to decide between the Savage and Colt designs.[7] Both designs were improved between each testing over their initial entries, leading up to the final test before adoption.[7]

Among the areas of success for the Colt was a test at the end of 1910 attended by its designer, John Browning. 6,000 rounds were fired from a single pistol over the course of two days. When the gun began to grow hot, it was simply immersed in water to cool it. The Colt gun passed with no reported malfunctions, while the Savage designs had 37
.[7]

100 Years and Still Being Used
Many military and law enforcement organizations in the United States and other countries continue to use (often modified) M1911A1 pistols including Marine Corps Special Operations Command, Los Angeles Police Department S.W.A.T. and L.A.P.D. S.I.S., the FBI Hostage Rescue Team, F.B.I. regional S.W.A.T. teams, and 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment—Delta (Delta Force). The Tacoma, Washington Police Department selected the Kimber Pro Carry II or Pro Carry II HD as optional, department supplied weapons available to its officers.[14]

The M1911A1 is popular among the general public in the United States for practical and recreational purposes. The pistol is commonly used for concealed carry thanks in part to a single-stack magazine (which makes for a thinner pistol that is therefore easier to conceal), personal defense, target shooting, and competition. Numerous aftermarket accessories allow users to customize the pistol to their liking. There are a growing number of manufacturers of M1911-type pistols and the model continues to be quite popular for its reliability, simplicity, and patriotic appeal. Various tactical, target, and compact models are available. Price ranges from a low end of around $400 for an imported Armscor/Rock Island model to more than $4,000 for the best competition or tactical models from such as those by Dan Wesson, Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, Les Baer and Nighthawk Custom.[15]
Due to an increased demand for M1911 pistols among Army Special Operations units, who are known to field a variety of M1911 pistols, the Army Marksmanship Unit began looking to develop a new generation of M1911s and launched the M1911-A2 project in late 2004.[16] The goal was to produce a minimum of seven variants with various sights, internal and external extractors, flat and arched mainspring housings, integral and add-on magazine wells, a variety of finishes and other options, with the idea of providing the end-user a selection from which to select the features that best fit their missions.[16] The AMU performed a well received demonstration of the first group of pistols to the Marine Corps at Quantico and various Special Operations units at Ft. Bragg and other locations.[16] The project provided a feasibility study with insight into future projects.[16] Models were loaned to various Special Operations units, the results of which are classified. An RFP was issued for a Joint Combat Pistol but it was ultimately canceled.[16] Currently units are experimenting with an M1911 platform in .40 which will incorporate lessons learned from the M1911 A2 project. Ultimately, the M1911 A2 project provided a test bed for improving existing M1911s. An improved M1911 variant becoming available in the future is a possibility.[16]

The Springfield Custom Professional Model 1911A1 pistol is produced under contract by Springfield Armory for the FBI regional SWAT teams and the Hostage Rescue Team.[17] This pistol is made in batches on a regular basis by the Springfield Custom Shop, and a few examples from most runs are made available for sale to the general public at a selling price of approximately US$2,700 each.

[edit]MEU(SOC) pistol
Main article: MEU(SOC) pistol
Marine Expeditionary Units formerly issued M1911s to Force Recon units.[18] Hand-selected Colt M1911A1 frames were gutted, deburred, and prepared for additional use by the USMC Precision Weapon Section (PWS) at Marine Corps Base Quantico.[18] They were then assembled with after-market grip safeties, ambidextrous thumb safeties, triggers, improved high-visibility sights, accurized barrels, grips, and improved Wilson magazines.[19] These hand-made pistols were tuned to specifications and preferences of end users.[20]

In the late 1980s, the Marines laid out a series of specifications and improvements to make Browning's design ready for 21st century combat, many of which have been included in MEU(SOC) pistol designs, but design and supply time was limited.[20] Discovering that the Los Angeles Police Department was pleased with their special Kimber M1911 pistols, a single source request was issued to Kimber for just such a pistol despite the imminent release of their TLE/RLII models.[21] Kimber shortly began producing a limited number of what would be later termed the Interim Close Quarters Battle pistol (ICQB). Maintaining the simple recoil assembly, 5-inch barrel (though using a stainless steel match grade barrel), and internal extractor, the ICQB is not much different from Browning's original design.[21]

The final units as issued to MCSOCOM Det-1 are the Kimber ICQBs with Surefire IMPL (Integrated Military Pistol Light), Dawson Precision Rails, Tritium Novak LoMount sights, Gemtech TRL Tactical Retention Lanyards, modified Safariland 6004 holsters, and Wilson Combat '47D' 8 round magazines. They have reportedly been used with over 15,000 rounds apiece.[21]

For me it's one of the best handguns made. Any other 1911 fans and/or owners here?
 

Zyzyxxz

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Rock Island Armory ones are pretty good priced entry models and still good quality.

yup been meaning to pick one up but the problem is they are going up in price (part of the reason possibly due to greater recognition for being a good iteration of the 1911 despite being Filipino made)
 
Tomat said:
OT for a handgun?

That's real neato.


We have professional "wrestling" and just about every random cartoon, gadget, and a few cities, why not a gun?

PS-- not a gun owner, not planning on becoming one.
 

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
Ignatz Mouse said:
We have professional "wrestling" and just about every random cartoon, gadget, and a few cities, why not a gun?

PS-- not a gun owner, not planning on becoming one.

I dunno. Just seems a little too specific for an OT. Has nothing to do with my stance on guns. Depends on how much you can get out of a discussion of just the 1911 I guess. (I'll refrain from shitting up the thread any further)

Aww, he edited the title. Now I feel like a dick :(
 
For a second, I thought this would be about the new Jackie Chan movie 1911.

...Interesting that many aspects of technology people say are better were from ~100 years ago (crt tvs, vinyl, etc.)
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Ducky_McGee said:
just think of all the men women and children this gun was used to murder around the world! Yay guns!
Guns do the bulk of the work, but man pulls the trigger.
 

akira28

Member
Ducky_McGee said:
just think of all the men women and children this gun was used to murder around the world! Yay guns!

probably relatively few, if you take into consideration the AK47, or a smaller caliber revolvers like a Saturday Night special.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
Ducky_McGee said:
just think of all the men women and children this gun was used to murder around the world! Yay guns!


funny, i've never heard of living guns that walk around and shoot random men women and children all by itself...
 

Bad_Boy

time to take my meds
Hari Seldon said:
I can't think of a single military weapon from 1911 still in use today other than this handgun.
a marine.

yes, a us marine is a weapon.

and lol @ the 1911 being a perfect gun. it's platform may have been around 100 years, but it's not perfect.
 

Piggus

Member
I've wanted a 1911 for a looooooooong time but definitely can't afford it right now. Someday though!



Ducky_McGee said:
just think of all the men women and children this gun was used to murder around the world! Yay guns!

Think about that the next time you use a knife, a baseball bat, a car, or just about anything else that has been used throughout history to murder people. Then go take a bath, hippie.
 
Tomat said:
I dunno. Just seems a little too specific for an OT. Has nothing to do with my stance on guns. Depends on how much you can get out of a discussion of just the 1911 I guess. (I'll refrain from shitting up the thread any further)

Aww, he edited the title. Now I feel like a dick :(
Actually lots of guns and/or makers have large unofficial forums for them. I know the 1911 has at least two. I'll admit its crazy the first time you find them, then you think of other interests or brands and its a lot less crazy.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Hari Seldon said:
I can't think of a single military weapon from 1911 still in use today other than this handgun.
Apparently North Korea still uses a clone of the ancient FN M1900, which was designed in 1896.

But Kim just rolls like that.
 
Ducky_McGee said:
just think of all the men women and children this gun was used to murder around the world! Yay guns!

Just think of all that freedom you enjoy because this tool was used against tyranny and oppression.
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Lance Bone Path said:
Sledgehammer would say that guns don't kill people,
bullets
kill people.
Yeah well the force of the bullet kills the person, the bullet is just on a trip.

lol <3
 

Forsete

Member
Always liked the look of that gun. <3

Funky Papa said:
Apparently North Korea still uses a clone of the ancient FN M1900, which was designed in 1896.

But Kim just rolls like that.

If it works, it works.
...and it would probably cost them too much to copy a more modern piece.
 

SteveWD40

Member
Delta and guys like that still use variants of the 1911 as they like the stopping power, along with many SWAT teams iirc? The UK SAS also used the 9mm Browning up until a few years back as well, same maker?
 

Jackson

Member
NTHKT3.jpg


If you're going to get a 1911, you might as well get the best there is. Nighthawk T3. It's only 3k for a pistol haha.

I don't own any guns lol
 

ChiTownBuffalo

Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
Forsete said:
Always liked the look of that gun. <3



If it works, it works.
...and it would probably cost them too much to copy a more modern piece.


They've using primarily a copy of the CZ-75. I only know this because when we went range shooting at a cousin's wedding, a FOB cousin just out ot he army asked why I was shooting a DPRK pistol.

He also said that the DPRK has been using Norinco CQ (M-16's) alot too. Kinda creepy.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Jackson said:
NTHKT3.jpg


If you're going to get a 1911, you might as well get the best there is. Nighthawk T3. It's only 3k for a pistol haha.

I don't own any guns lol
Wilson Combat's Contemporary Classic Centennial is even prettier.

100th-1-800.jpg


It only costs $4000. GUFFAW
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
ChiTownBuffalo said:
They've using primarily a copy of the CZ-75. I only know this because when we went range shooting at a cousin's wedding, a FOB cousin just out ot he army asked why I was shooting a DPRK pistol.

He also said that the DPRK has been using Norinco CQ (M-16's) alot too. Kinda creepy.
Fun fact: a surprising number of AR-15 derived rifles (M4/M16) for the civilian market are built from parts made in... VIETNAM.
 
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