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[KingGondo]

I only really consider someone rich if they have the kind of money that can ensure a lifestyle of leisure if they chose to live it, or if you're making enough money to be able to retire earlier than the average age without substantial government assistance.

My wife and I make a combined $110k or so in an inexpensive place to live (Oklahoma), and while I consider us secure and not really wanting for anything, I don't consider us to be rich. That might change as our income goes up and we pay down our student loans and other liabilities.

I do feel lucky and thankful for what we have, though.

 

[Divvy]

There needs to Be a course required in ALL High Schools called 'Life Prep 1'
In it, you should learn most of the things independent people actually need to know that you're never taught in school

• Tax Brackets *Most people don't really understand them*
• Credit Ratings *Why you can't just declare bankruptcy and everything is all cool, what establishing credit can do for you, why you should NEVER cosign ever EVER.
• Credit Cards *Minimum payments, avoiding pitfalls, paying securely online
• Applied Health *knowing WHY it's bad to eat fast food too often, why ramen is not an everyday food, How to buy cheap yet healthy food*
• Applied Math *Using math to find if its cheaper to drive 10 miles away to save $.10 a gallon on gas with a 15 gallon tank, or just get the more expensive local gas*
• Common Sense *Just because it says "10 for $10" Doesn't mean you must buy 10 to get the sale price, you can just get 2, Store brand generics aren't any less effective than brand names

This would help a lot of people, although a money management class would have a lot of overlap here. I don't know if those exist or not, wish we had some at my school.

You forgot statistics. Statistics is infinitely more useful to the average person than calculus.

 

[Alucrid]

You forgot statistics. Statistics is infinitely more useful to the average person than calculus.

They should add in how loans and mortgages work too.

 

[Jim E. Rossler]

You forgot statistics. Statistics is infinitely more useful to the average person than calculus.

Also Fuck Geometry, I've never needed to know the volume of a sphere or what angle a corner of a triangle is derived from the other 2 angles
I HAVE needed algebra many times in life

 

[Enron]

I would also add in there a class on basic savings/investing, with a heavy emphasis on risk/reward.

Sadly though i don't think this would really work as a class for HS seniors - most 18 year olds this will go in one ear and out the other.

 

[Particle Physicist]

I live in Manhattan and if I made 200k I would be a happy camper. I make nowhere near that.

They're just living above their means. Even millionaires--hello pro athletes--do this. Income doesn't matter.

Some guy posted on here that people in manhattan making 200k aren't even middle class, at least one person agreed with him.

 

[Azih]

Dude, at 75k a year you are making more money than a "huge majority of other people". Do you consider that rich?

Well let me clarify what I mean by huge. If you're in the top 10% households then brother you're really rich. I consider the top 20% to be rich.

Of course now that I think about it discrepancy is a better metric. If your household is making twice the median or more then you are incredibly rich. That's pulling in MORE THAN TWICE compared to what more than half of people get by on.

Edit:

I only really consider someone rich if they have the kind of money that can ensure a lifestyle of leisure if they chose to live it,

I don't know man. When did we start considering incredibly filthy rich people to be merely 'rich'. Never having to work again is a pinnacle of wealth, not just merely 'rich'. It's like we consider 'Lifestyles of the Rich and the Famous' to be just ho-hum for some reason. Is it the media that did this? I can't think of anything else.

 

[Reuenthal]

I don't consider them rich I consider them upper middle class.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Scientific? That doesn't even make sense.

And yeah, it IS pretty easy to live on $50k. But you couldn't do that in Manhattan.

I did it. I know many people that do it. You probably can't do it if you eat out every meal and take cabs everywhere, but it is certainly doable. what are you suggesting the median income in Manhattan is?

 

[FortunateSon]

Wow. Guess a lot of people here ere either rich or have parents that are rich.

200,000 is a lot of fucking money. In what fucking world do you guys live-in where it's not considered rich?

They make more than most of the general population.

They are rich. Period.

And this people claim, they are not rich. Come on. How about they give me 200,000 and I'll gladly claim I'm rich.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Well let me clarify what I mean by huge. If you're in the top 10% households then brother you're really rich. I consider the top 20% to be rich.

Of course now that I think about it discrepancy is a better metric. If your household is making twice the median or more then you are incredibly rich. That's pulling in MORE THAN TWICE compared to what more than half of people get by on.

Are they rich? or is everyone else poor.

I think the problem is that the median income does not really match up anymore with what used to be considered middle class.

 

[KingGondo]

Wow. Guess a lot of people here ere either rich or have parents that are rich.

200,000 is a lot of fucking money. In what fucking world do you guys live-in where it's not considered rich?

They make more than most of the general population.

They are rich. Period.

And this people claim, they are not rich. Come on. How about they give me 200,000 and I'll gladly claim I'm rich.

That's a very facile statement. If you don't see that, you're basically saying there's no difference between your average married couple with professional degrees and good jobs and Wall Street hedge fund managers. They're clearly in different strata of society.

Also, it's not as simple as someone being "given" $200,000. It takes time and investment in your personal life to get to that level of income, typically. Not to mention student loans, transportation, etc.

I agree that someone who makes $200k/year should be able to live comfortably anywhere in the world, but you should think about what the word "rich" really means.

 

[Phat Michael]

With $10 000 grand, I could travel the world for almost a year.

Fuck his travel budget.

Fuck his budget entirely, not rich?

Spend some time in a homeless shelter, see how fucking rich and lucky you really are, jackass.

Jesus dude. Seriously, 200k is comfortable. Nice house, decent car etc. its not rich. Homeless shelter? Bit extreme there. To me, 200k for a single man is very comfortable, but still not rich.

 

[commish]

That's a very facile statement. If you don't see that, you're basically saying there's no difference between your average married couple with professional degrees and good jobs and Wall Street hedge fund managers. They're clearly in different strata of society.

Also, it's not as simple as someone being "given" $200,000. It takes time and investment in your personal life to get to that level of income, typically. Not to mention student loans, transportation, etc.

I agree that someone who makes $200k/year should be able to live comfortably anywhere in the world, but you should think about what the word "rich" really means.

I tell you what. If you take my salary, put me in a city that isn't NYC, take away my student loans, and then I'd probably feel "rich".

 

[Shortt Sirket]

If you guys really want to see what the "average income" is, go check out the HUD Limits:

http://www.huduser.org/portal/datasets/il.html

They will show you median household income as well as the "income limits" for different number of people in the household. Anything under the 50% is considered "very low income."

And if you look at NY City, the Median household income is $65K. So those saying you have to make $200k to live in NY obviously aren't telling the whole story.

 

[Something Wicked]

A few things (even though they more so apply to the US than Canada):

A) There's some fairly substantial differences in potential living standards for those with combined incomes of $100k, $200k, $300k, and $400k. If you think "$200k" in most of the larger North American metros is "rich," then I'd like you to provide your definition of rich. For me, rich is being able to afford a $1 million+ home, a $150,000k+ car, put your kids in the most exclusive private schools ($30-50k per yr and per kid), etc. A family of 4 with $200k wouldn't come close to being able to afford those things. In the US, for most states a $200k income would have combined state and federal income taxes of around 30%-40%, so it's more like $120k-$140k and not including property taxes.

B) A lot of those who make $200k/yr are not guaranteed to make that amount every year and may very well only make that level of income for a short period of time. Thus, if that is a strong possibility, then many people save larger %'s of their income more than most income brackets to enable a more comfortable life when making less money.

C) At $200k or even just making $200k at some point, a family's children generally do not qualify for any college financial aid or if so, very little relative to tuition. If your kid wanted to go a private school, it's either set your kid up with $150-200k in debt, spend nearly a year's worth of your salary to put one kid through school, or some mixture of the two, which would some still put the kid in much debt and be a significant financial burden on the parent.

 

[Azih]

That's a very facile statement. If you don't see that, you're basically saying there's no difference between your average married couple with professional degrees and good jobs and Wall Street hedge fund managers.

Not at all. The former is 'rich' the latter is what used to be considered 'filthy rich'. Definite acknowledgement of difference but both still rich.

 

[KingGondo]

I tell you what. If you take my salary, put me in a city that isn't NYC, take away my student loans, and then I'd probably feel "rich".

Absolutely. One of the perks of living in OKC.

I absolutely feel "rich," in terms of having very few wants and being able to buy a house, car, etc. But I know logically that I'm not truly "rich" in terms of having oodles of money to invest, take vacations with, etc.

But true wealth is all about the quality and security of your life, (not pure income) anyways. It's a corny statement, but it's true. Money can definitely contribute to those things, though.

Not at all. The former is 'rich' the latter is what used to be considered 'filthy rich'. Definite acknowledgement of difference but both still rich.

"Wealth" and "richness" is a subjective terms, which is part of why the discussion is so interesting.

Anyone making enough money to be comfortable in a first-world country should absolutely feel "rich," especially from a worldwide perspective. Billions around the world would kill for basics like health insurance, a washing machine, reliable power and running water.

 

[Byakuya769]

200k is FAR from being rich, after taxes 1/2 is gone anyway. I live in Manhattan, and if you're making 200k an year you're not even middle class


I wouldn't consider someone "rich" unless they were pulling 750K+

The fuck? What do people consider to be "middle class?"

 

[commish]

And if you look at NY City, the Median household income is $65K. So those saying you have to make $200k to live in NY obviously aren't telling the whole story.

I'm not saying that you need to make 200k in NYC, but there are VASTLY different living experiences in this city, depending on where you live and how much you make, and everyone is still "living in NYC". Does that $65k include students? I don't know how household is defined.

 

[12STS]

Please stop making arguments based around the premise that "rich" is some objective measurement of wealth. It isn't. The word is a vague, meaningless descriptor that is entirely dependent upon the perspective of the user.

We can't say whether or not people are rich for having an income of $200K per year. We can, however, easily identify them in other ways. Percentiles, for instance.

If you're earning $200K per year, you're in the 95th percentile for income earners in the United States. The median household income in the United States is $50K per year.

There are very few people in this world that are entirely devoid of financial risk so risk and hardship themselves are a very poor way of making this argument either. Once again, even millionaires can live beyond their means and bankrupt themselves. That said, anyone who is in the top 5% of income earners in the United States should have no true problems if they're managing their money appropriately rather than tying themselves up in overly expensive illiquid assets.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

I don't know how people feel comfortable having 300k student loans. I wouldn't be able to focus on my schoolwork at all. Do you have a guarantee to a job? How long do you expect it to take to pay that back?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

The fuck? What do people consider to be "middle class?"

Nah, it's definitely upper middle class. Period.

But it's not scrooge mcduck rich. A household making 200k is in a great position no doubt. But it's not rich.

Is 100k household incoming rich? Is that still middle class? Is it upper? lower? dead middle?

 

[KingGondo]

I don't know how people feel comfortable having 300k student loans. I wouldn't be able to focus on my schoolwork at all. Do you have a guarantee to a job? How long do you expect it to take to pay that back?

I can't imagine many people are really racking up that kind of student debt.

I've heard the horror stories too, but that's definitely the exception to the rule.

 

[Slavik81]

It's top 1% in Canada, as the article notes.

No, it's not. I linked to Stats Canada on the first page. It's top 10%.

 

[John Rabbit]

$200k/yr with four kids is thoroughly (upper) middle-class.

$166k/yr single is fucking rich. i don't blame that guy, if i made that kind of money i'd blow it on vegas trips, overpriced cheese and stupid shit too.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I can't get my head round how that single guy spends ~£880 a month on groceries and eating out.

My take home pay for a month would be ~£950 to put that in perspective. And I do fine.

Can't really complain about things when you are spending over £25,000 a year on food, clothes, wine and entertainment!

 

[FortunateSon]

That's a very facile statement. If you don't see that, you're basically saying there's no difference between your average married couple with professional degrees and good jobs and Wall Street hedge fund managers. They're clearly in different strata of society.

No it isn't. How so? Is there a difference in class say if one family made 1 million + and the other 5 million +. No. There isn't. The only minimal difference is one family is really wealthy and the other is just wealthy.

Maybe I misunderstood what your statement implied but I think the point still stands.

Also, it's not as simple as someone being "given" $200,000. It takes time and investment in your personal life to get to that level of income, typically. Not to mention student loans, transportation, etc.

That clearly wasn't the point I was arguing against. I was arguing against the fact that people in here think that making 200,000 a year is not considered rich. How so?

Crazy world we live-in where these people think they are not rich earning that much or living comfortably.

I agree that someone who makes $200k/year should be able to live comfortably anywhere in the world

That and they definitely fall under the category rich.

 

[Yoritomo]

If you can't live your lifestyle for 4 years based on non-retirement based investments and savings by the time you're 40 years old, you're just not wealthy. Time to be more frugal.

These people might be prodigious consumers but they're not rich at all.

 

[Subprime]

How do you even get that much student debt? I know university costs are much lower in canada, and much lower in my province, but 300K? Unless you go to a rediculously expensive university and are pathetically indecisive, I can't even understand how that is possible.

 

[Davidion]

Please stop making arguments based around the premise that "rich" is some objective measurement of wealth. It isn't. The word is a vague, meaningless descriptor that is entirely dependent upon the perspective of the user.

We can't say whether or not people are rich for having an income of $200K per year. We can, however, easily identify them in other ways. Percentiles, for instance.

If you're earning $200K per year, you're in the 95th percentile for income earners in the United States. The median household income in the United States is $50K per year.

There are very few people in this world that are entirely devoid of financial risk so risk and hardship themselves are a very poor way of making this argument either. Once again, even millionaires can live beyond their means and bankrupt themselves. That said, anyone who is in the top 5% of income earners in the United States should have no true problems if they're managing their money appropriately rather than tying themselves up in overly expensive illiquid assets.

Yes, though one should also account for the fact that depending on your occupation and social standing a certain level of living may be expected of you from your peers, which can impact how much control you have over your own spending.

$200k/year is not "rich", though it is a substantial household income that affords them a much better lifestyle and a level of comfort that's beyond most people. The bigger issue is people having this income complaining that they're having a hard time as a result of it. That's an indicator of lack of perspective at best and plain old ignorant insensitivity at worst.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

I can't imagine many people are really racking up that kind of student debt.

I've heard the horror stories too, but that's definitely the exception to the rule.

Yeah, 300k is the extreme out of the extreme. I'd feel the same way about 50k or 100k though. looking at low single digits myself and already feel a bit uncomfortable.

 

[Stumpokapow]

If you're earning $200K per year, you're in the 95th percentile for income earners in the United States. The median household income in the United States is $50K per year.

As the article notes, $196k is top 1% for the subject of the article.

No, it's not. I linked to Stats Canada on the first page. It's top 10%.

The premise of the essay is that 196k is the cutoff for top 1%, and it cites Stats Can. Not sure if he's citing for a different year than you or what. I think one confusion might be that you're looking for the stats just for couple families; he might be looking for the stats for all families, including couples and non-couples?

 

[140.85]

I consider "rich" living comfortably and still having at least a million in the bank.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

$200K is a lot of money, even in most cities, but it doesn't mean you're set for life and that you can buy whatever the F you want.

The people in this story do not realize that based on their insane spending habits. $1,000/month for clothes? Have to have an $80K Mercedes every three years (why not just lease)? Season tickets to the Leafs?

 

[Divvy]

As the article notes, $196k is top 1% for the subject of the article.

Eh that fact was sort of disingenuous. It's in the top 1% for single earners, not household. For household it's somewhere between 1-5%.

 

[Neo C.]

The more I read, the more I understand the American POV. 200k/year doesn't seem a lot to you when you have massive student debt; when you have kids, you have to save for college. Those are things we don't have to worry here, therefore when someone makes 200k in my country, he could easily save 30k yearly, 20k if he likes to spend a lot.

 

[Yoritomo]

Seriously? You're gonna pick a bone with these people. They don't have enough money to influence politics. They spend the majority of their income thereby reducing any legacy left to their kids other than probably paying for their education.

Who gives a shit. If they worked hard in school and at work and are dual income middle managers, who honestly cares. They're just idiots living above their means like the rest of the Anglo world.

 

[kaioshade]

Spending in excess, multiple luxury cars, luxury meals, and vacations multiple times is not rich. I really want to know what some people consider "rich". From the comments, it sounds like you are not rich if you have "only" 3 luxury cars, you need to have a garage of them to be rich.

Oh, and don't forget the multimillion dollar mansions, gotta have 4 of them, one for each family pet. And two private jets.

Give me a break.

It is very insulting to people who bust their ass to make a honest meager living to say that that level of wealth is "getting by"

 

[SoulPlaya]

How do you even get that much student debt? I know university costs are much lower in canada, and much lower in my province, but 300K? Unless you go to a rediculously expensive university and are pathetically indecisive, I can't even understand how that is possible.

I don't know if you're referring to me, but that's the norm for medical schools. Like I said, the cheapest medical school in IL (where I live) is 42K a year. That doesn't include the cost of living like housing, food, transportation.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

They're just idiots living above their means like the rest of America.

Everyone wants to be an American idiot.

 

[Yoritomo]

Spending in excess, multiple luxury cars, luxury meals, and vacations multiple times is not rich. I really want to know what some people consider "rich". From the comments, it sounds like you are not rich if you have "only" 3 luxury cars, you need to have a garage of them to be rich.

Oh, and don't forget the multimillion dollar mansions, gotta have 4 of them, one for each family pet. And two private jets.

Give me a break.

It is very insulting to people who bust their ass to make a honest meager living to say that that level of wealth is "getting by"

If you're jealous of their luxury items you're probably living above your means too. I think far more important than a new car every 3 years, and a larger home, with lots of eating out and vacations is having fuck you money. We can survive on non-retirement investments while maintaining our current level of consumption for 2 years. This gives me freedom from "wage slavery" as it were, which is far more important to me than dumb shit like cars and big houses.

 

[SoulPlaya]

Spending in excess, multiple luxury cars, luxury meals, and vacations multiple times is not rich. I really want to know what some people consider "rich". From the comments, it sounds like you are not rich if you have "only" 3 luxury cars, you need to have a garage of them to be rich.

Oh, and don't forget the multimillion dollar mansions, gotta have 4 of them, one for each family pet. And two private jets.

Give me a break.

It is very insulting to people who bust their ass to make a honest meager living to say that that level of wealth is "getting by"

Because it's not typical. These people are living like this because they live in a country where they have little debt, and don't have much to pay for tuition and health care. For most American families making 200K, you couldn't afford half this shit. Look at Bill's budget from a few pages ago.

 

[KingGondo]

Yeah, 300k is the extreme out of the extreme. I'd feel the same way about 50k or 100k though. looking at low single digits myself and already feel a bit uncomfortable.

I'm at about $45k myself, and it sucks. But my degree is allowing me to make more money than I would have, so it's a trade-off.

 

[Shortt Sirket]

If you're earning $200K per year, you're in the 95th percentile for income earners in the United States. The median household income in the United States is $50K per year.

Not that it matters too much, but the Median Family Income for the US is $65k. And if you want it by Metro/Rural then it is: $67,600 and $52,400 respectively.

HUD Link

 

[kevm3]

$200,000 is not 'technically' rich, but realistically, it IS rich.

 

[mbmonk]

If you do your own laundry and wash your own dishes I don't consider you rich. You still may be well off/cushy in my eyes.

 

[kaioshade]

If you're jealous of their luxury items you're probably living above your means too. I think far more important than a new car every 3 years, and a larger home, with lots of eating out and vacations is having fuck you money. We can survive on non-retirement investments while maintaining our current level of consumption for 2 years. This gives me freedom from "wage slavery" as it were, which is far more important to me than dumb shit like cars and big houses.

I am not jealous, but it irritates me that i am trying to work my way up the chain, and while i am not on the street. I am truly "getting by" with my 1 bedroom apartment, 2000 Jetta, Student Loans, and other bills. I can afford the occasional splurge, movies every few weeks or so, or a game every other month or so. THAT is getting by.

i Make less than 30k a year, a fraction of what these people are. They are not getting by, they are spending ludicrous amounts of money and saying they are not rich. They are delusional. And it is insulting.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

200K for a family of 4 is living comfortably.

But it's not rich. Far from it.

 

[Cat Party]

This thread has been extremely interesting to me, because I think most people assume they know what it means to be "rich." Then you start drawing lines, and you realize how difficult it is. Very few of us will ever consider ourselves "rich," because most of us are just seeking to be secure and provide for our families.