2010/11 NBA Dec |OT| of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7lMXXaUaIo PEACE
- Thread starter reilo
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LiveFromKyoto
Member
giri said:
Can you really say that was an act of fate though? The team ran an 8 man rotation all season at an insane pace, running those guys up & down for 40 minutes night after night. Injuries would seem to be a natural outcome.
Red Blaster
Member
Seeing that old Suns lineup...damn, really wish we'd chosen T-Mac for JoJo and Marion + 7th pick instead of the two lovers Franchise and Mobley.
Dwight
Marion
Hill
Johnson
Nelson
Deng or Iggy of the bench.
Nasty.
Dwight
Marion
Hill
Johnson
Nelson
Deng or Iggy of the bench.
Nasty.
reilo said:
That first year the C's were together, they were (or should have been) every single one of them, either all nba, or all defensive, if not on both. Ron artest still plays D at an all defensive level, and gasol/kobe should/could quite easily make all nba. And bynum isn't untalented, he just doesn't give a fuck. And odom is extremely talented and could quite easily win 6th man of the year any of their Chip years.
But you're right, they are completely and utterly devoid of talent compared to those suns teams. Undoubtedly. None of these laker/celts/spurs teams are lacking any talent compared to those suns teams. None of htem are exactly dynasties though either.
And yes, all those teams had injuries, and in those injured years did they win it all? err, no.
03-04 marbury,
04-05 Joe gets injured in the play offs, this is the best year they had, and best shot. But LB was also injured in those play offs. Still they should have won it then and failed.
05-06 Amare's knees blow up. Bell/Diaw era begins
06-07 Spurs cheap shot gets amare/diaw suspended
07-08 The Shaquile O'Neal experience.
08-09 Mike D' gone, The terry porter experience.
09-10 WCF, where amare played like a giant skirt.
Besides, that suns teams biggest problem wasn't scoring depth, and everyone knows it.
LiveFromKyoto said:
Can't say you're wrong. But some of thats on the owner. They never kept draft picks so never had new blood to bring into a rotation. The picks they sold were used on decent talent too. Rudy, rondo, sergio too i think? such wastes.
reilo said:
Regular season, yes.
ryutaro's mama
Member
ryutaro's mama said:
I detest Horry, and hope he dies in anyone of Branduils fantasy scenarios. I seriously wouldn't care if the guy tripped and broke his kneck.
Some of that is directed at stern though, the single most ridiculous suspension ever handed down in one of the most absurd decisions ever made in professional sport in the history of the world.
Nope. Allen hasn't been All-NBA since 2005. Rondo has never made an All-NBA team.giri said:
Artest was picked up way past his prime. Kobe was in a steady decline when Artest came into town and completely banged up. Bynum is always injured come playoff time. Odom chooses when or not to give a fuck, but he's extremely talented. I didn't say those teams weren't talented, I said that they weren't put together in all of their primes. Pau Gasol and Kobe are arguably the only two players on the Lakers team between 08-10 that were in their prime. I'll argue that due to his injuries last year, despite the ring, Kobe was on a downward swing.
Lakers did in 09 and 10. To say that Kobe was healthy for more than a five game stretch any time last year is silly. Celtics were banged up badly in 2009 and had some injury troubles last year and came really close to winning it in the finals. Fact is, they at least got there despite the adversity.
Two things killed those Suns teams:
1) Shit defense (you can thank D'Antoni for that)
2) A little bit lack of luck
But my opinion still stands: Those Suns teams were stacked at the exact right moment and should have at least gotten to the finals.
ryutaro's mama
Member
giri said:
I love the guy, even though he ended his career as a 5pur.
Met him a couple times at E3.
Even took a picture with him.
Rodeo Clown
All aboard! The Love train!
No, that came from Boston in the Ray Allen trade. Ibaka was originally a Suns pick, though.giri said:
reilo said:
Artest is still probably the best wing defender in the league. He's not the Offensive guy he used to be, but the lakers aren't exactly even trying. He's still got it though, every now and then you see him post guys up and he's still got moves. He just plays his role.
09-10 lakers were the only banged up year genuinely. Every team gets banged up a little, the suns team had key players sit out for entire games and stretches of them.
There's no mistaking the suns team has had talent, but as much, and as complimentary as any of those others? And here's a key point for the plays offs, some of those teams they lost too had head coaches that out played our coach, dramatically so.
Yeah, I think so. That team was built to compliment their two key figures in Nash and Amare. The pieces fit together damn well. You don't win 60+ games by accident.giri said:
The advantage that Nash brought to the Suns over someone like Fisher or a very green (no pun intended) young point-guard in Rondo has to be evident, right? Can we also honestly say that Shawn Marion in his prime wasn't as good if not better than Lamar Odom in his prime? And of course there's the age-old debate of a prime Amare versus prime Gasol, but I won't get into that.
In the end, the wild-card would come in what Kobe brings versus his counter-part (Johnson or Bell) and what Nash brings versus his counter-part (Fisher or Rondo). I think the biggest thing that did those Suns in was their defense and lack of giving a shit on one end of the floor. They all had the athletes and talent to be a really amazing defensive (I'm not saying individual defensive, but overall defensive) team.
Which brings us to...
And there is the big difference. That system D'Antoni employed was all about getting up the floor and to the basket as quickly as possible. Which means if one or two of your players are leaking out and getting ready to make the fastbreak layup, it means that they are not staying in front of their man or boxing them out when the shot goes up. It's a risk versus reward system, and when the other team can get back on defense enough times as you quickly get up to set up your offense, you will be exposed. Which is what happened.
A different coach that had a more balanced approach to the game would have done wonders for that Suns team. They might not have won 60+ games, but if they had won 57/58/59 and went on to the finals? That's already a much better accomplishment than what D'Antoni would have ever possibly brought.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Branduil said:
Artest is the only guy in NBA you could ask to guard the 1-5 for long periods and not be abused..
the faster PGs and taller skilled centers would of course give him problems but on the whole he can guard every position..
The Frankman
Banned
Are you on drugs?Sharp said:
Come read the NBA thread back in 2007
Now read the 2008 version
Now read last years...
Now come back here and post that again.
Dream scenario for the "Overpaid With A Shitty Attitude" team coached by the following...Blackace said:
Sloan as headcoach
McMillan and Skiles as assistants
Line-up...
PG: Baron Davis
SG: Jackson
SF: Odom
PF: Blatche or Cousins
C: Haywood
Who kills who first?
Gold, Jerry! Gold!
reilo said:
I'd put odom over marion, considering marions propensity to hide in big moments. And he's even more of a hormonal nut job than Ron. Have you read SSOL ? it doens't paint a nice picture of Marion, having the be babied all the time.
Kobe v Nash is an interesting debate, but i think just about everyone takes Kobe, including me.
It's the coaching that killed us. Its why Gentry was a better fit, he held people accountable on both ends. Mike only on one end. Using a very similar (80% or so were mike d' sets) though not as fast paced, and a little more deliberate (i.e.e a better 1/2 court) offense, but a much better D, the suns of last year would have out played any of those previous years teams. Even though they got no further.
The sad part is, i now wonder what would have happened if Gentry was head coach, but Mike D the O Coach.
For the record, luck does play a big part in getting to a chip. Or if you want to debate that, a lack of luck can certainly kill your chances of winning one. And the suns for 3 or 4 years got a bit unlucky, some of it due to their own fault, others not so much.
The Frankman
Banned
Odom doesn't fit with that group, he's too soft. No thug in him also unless he gets a scar and grows a beard.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Jeff-DSA said:
<3
Adam Blade
WWKC
Rodeo Clown
All aboard! The Love train!
Nothing but great things can come from this.
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