2010/11 NBA Dec |OT| of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7lMXXaUaIo PEACE

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Sharp said:
Sure... but it's not really Stern's fault that GMs make dumb decisions.
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That's true. But it's also not the GMs fault when a guy suddenly turns into a contract whore.

That's why I suggest an "Eddy Curry" exception where you can cut one player from your salary roll every year. You can add a payout where they have to give the player a percentage of their remaining salary so they don't abuse it too much.
 
Branduil said:
That's true. But it's also not the GMs fault when a guy suddenly turns into a contract whore.

That's why I suggest an "Eddy Curry" exception where you can cut one player from your salary roll every year. You can add a payout where they have to give the player a percentage of their remaining salary so they don't abuse it too much.
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Sure, you should be able to nontender players and pay them some fixed percentage of their salary. I didn't realize you couldn't already do this in basketball.
 
Sharp said:
I think one interesting question is, if there were no guaranteed contracts, what incentive would players have to sign for more than one year at a time? Other than as a gesture of loyalty, it would really mean nothing anymore; they couldn't make out like bandits on underperforming in the later years of contracts because teams would simply cut them once they got too expensive, and if they got better or became dissatisfied with their current team one season they could always sign with a different one. I'm not sure that would result in more parity.
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Yeah, thats where branduils thing works, with the addition of the having to pay the player, say 65% of the rest of their contract. But it would no longer go towards your cap.

Then, signing dampier to a 60? million dollar contract doesn't stick you with his average ass for 5 years. Signing bargs for was that also ~60million? god. (And also LMA)
 
It has to count towards the cap, at least to some extent, or a huge bias instantly goes to big-market teams. Like I said earlier, anything that makes the soft cap softer would be absolutely horrible for basketball as a sport.
 
Sharp said:
Sure, you should be able to nontender players and pay them some fixed percentage of their salary. I didn't realize you couldn't already do this in basketball.
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You can always buy players out in theory, but the only time there's any incentive for players to agree to this is when it's the last year of their contract and they want to go play for a contending team. Even then the savings are minimal.

When they first instituted the luxury tax they allowed something like what I propose as a one-time thing. The Mavs cut Michael Finley. They still had to pay his salary, but it didn't count towards the luxury tax.

Sharp said:
It has to count towards the cap, at least to some extent, or a huge bias instantly goes to big-market teams. Like I said earlier, anything that makes the soft cap softer would be absolutely horrible for basketball as a sport.
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That's why I proposed it in conjunction with a hard cap.

Hard cap+Eddy Curry Exception would allow teams to retool much faster than they currently can.
 
Buying out contracts in the NBA is a messy process. Usually its just between a team and an agent...
Sharp said:
I think one interesting question is, if there were no guaranteed contracts, what incentive would players have to sign for more than one year at a time? Other than as a gesture of loyalty, it would really mean nothing anymore; they couldn't make out like bandits on underperforming in the later years of contracts because teams would simply cut them once they got too expensive, and if they got better or became dissatisfied with their current team one season they could always sign with a different one. I'm not sure that would result in more parity.
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You should take a look at NFL contracts. Large sums of guaranteed money, signing bonuses, incentives that effect the overall value of the contract, the ability to restructure a contract, teams are punished for cutting a player by taking cap hits relative to that player's salary... I'm not saying they should bring over the exact same contract format, but they've got a lot of good ideas that could be tailored for the NBA.
 
giri said:
Unless the suns somehow land a BIG free agent (trade with the grizz for either Gasol or Z-Bo, they need depth off the bench, suns can give them a bunch of wings!), there's no real point in going to the play offs other than to say "we made the play offs".
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I felt that way last season too but they surprised us. Not to say I feel that has any baring on this season and I certainly agree with you. We have absolutley no identity with our bench right now, way too many guys rotating in with half of them doing the same damn thing (lulz 80 wings lulz). Our bench was one of our greatest weapons last season and right now they aren't playing at their potential because there are too many mouths to feed. Goran is especially impacted by this, how's he supposed to build chemistry with anyone if the name changes by the minute?

I forget if I asked you a few months back what you thought about trying to acquire Jason Thompson from the Kings? Moreso from an impact perspective rather than if it's realistic. Also, sweet Lou is gone bro, when will you change the avatar?
I get sad when I see his face :(
 
giri said:
Oh i know, it would be hillarious though, for everyone but grizz fans. But they have to decide who they're keeping soon, Mayo or Z-bo, if they're not going to renew Z-bo, we'll take him, for a half season rental. in return give up childress & hedo or sometihng like that.
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The guy that I hope the knicks can get in a trade is Jason Thompson.
 
Sharp said:
It has to count towards the cap, at least to some extent, or a huge bias instantly goes to big-market teams. Like I said earlier, anything that makes the soft cap softer would be absolutely horrible for basketball as a sport.
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If it coutns towards the cap, then that player can not play for another team for the length of that contract. Meaning, he'll have no chance of re-signing anywhere else.

The players would never let that through, and for good reason.
 
giri said:
If it coutns towards the cap, then that player can not play for another team for the length of that contract. Meaning, he'll have no chance of re-signing anywhere else.

The players would never let that through, and for good reason.
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I don't understand why this would have to be the case. If the player's cut he should be able to negotiate or renegotiate a contract irrespective of what he already got.
 
Squall ASF said:
I felt that way last season too but they surprised us. Not to say I feel that has any baring on this season and I certainly agree with you. We have absolutley no identity with our bench right now, way too many guys rotating in with half of them doing the same damn thing (lulz 80 wings lulz). Our bench was one of our greatest weapons last season and right now they aren't playing at their potential because there are too many mouths to feed. Goran is especially impacted by this, how's he supposed to build chemistry with anyone if the name changes by the minute?

I forget if I asked you a few months back what you thought about trying to acquire Jason Thompson from the Kings? Moreso from an impact perspective rather than if it's realistic. Also, sweet Lou is gone bro, when will you change the avatar?
I get sad when I see his face :(
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I'll change it when i find something bette, and can be assed.

I don't want Jason Thompson. I've said my reasons many times, but he's basically locker room villanueva and i want no part of it.

I'd love to get lou back though. He's missed. So is his hustle.
 
Branduil said:
Mayo is making it easy for the Grizz with his play. But knowing Heisley they'll probably give him a $100 million contract.
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I don't think Mayo finishes the season in Memphis.
 
Sharp said:
I don't understand why this would have to be the case. If the player's cut he should be able to negotiate or renegotiate a contract irrespective of what he already got.
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Why should i, as a team owner, ever execute this option, if there is no upside for me, and allows a team like the lakers/celtics/heat/orlando to come a long and pick up this player for next to nothing, now that he's been paid?

If you don't give both sides something, then the one losing will never use it.
 
giri said:
I'll change it when i find something bette, and can be assed.

I don't want Jason Thompson. I've said my reasons many times, but he's basically locker room villanueva and i want no part of it.

I'd love to get lou back though. He's missed. So is his hustle.
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Haha ok. I avoided this thread until the season began because I didn't feel like reading 80 thousand posts about the Heat all off-season so didn't see your previous statements. Two things at the top of my head that pissed me off before the season regarding our previous squad: Letting Lou go and Frye's contract :|
 
Branduil said:
Mayo is making it easy for the Grizz with his play. But knowing Heisley they'll probably give him a $100 million contract.
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That whole team is basically a team of 1b's or 2a's, if that makes sense. They're putting Gay into the situation of being Option 1a, but i'm not sure if he'll ever really be that. And because of that, they're not really meshing at any level.

It's silly though, that all of their starters apart from conley, should be getting paid ~10 - 12mil, and you wouldn't think it was a horrible contract.

Squall ASF said:
Haha ok. I avoided this thread until the season began because I didn't feel like reading 80 thousand posts about the Heat all off-season so didn't see your previous statements. Two things at the top of my head that pissed me off before the season regarding our previous squad: Letting Lou go and Frye's contract :|
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Frye got over paid. Not by a lot, and it's not cripling, but he got over paid, but they had to keep him if they were letting Amare go, so they paid a premium.
 
Wolves going with Ridnour, Brewer, Johnson, Beasley, Love tonight. Yes, Love at Center and Beasley at the 4. smh Rambis
 
giri said:
Why should i, as a team owner, ever execute this option, if there is no upside for me, and allows a team like the lakers/celtics/heat/orlando to come a long and pick up this player for next to nothing, now that he's been paid?

If you don't give both sides something, then the one losing will never use it.
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The owners do get something. They get the ability to nontender an albatross of a contract that isn't meeting expectations. If the player is any good, he will receive multiple offers (including one from the original team) and be able to pick one at will. If he isn't, it's not a big deal anyway. I'm not sure why you think the owners wouldn't spring for this or this should be a complete no-risk deal for them. I know the Wizards or Magic would jump at the opportunity to non-tender Arenas or Rashard and have only a fraction of their salaries count against their cap space...
 
giri said:
Why should i, as a team owner, ever execute this option, if there is no upside for me, and allows a team like the lakers/celtics/heat/orlando to come a long and pick up this player for next to nothing, now that he's been paid.
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Those are the chances you take. This is the same situation the Washington Redskins are in with Albert Haynesworth. In their case, instead of releasing and allowing him to join a playoff team, they sit and let him rot. Someone will give up a draft pick this offseason, which im sure is all they're looking for.

Works for everyone involved.
 
Rodeo Clown said:
Wolves going with Ridnour, Brewer, Johnson, Beasley, Love tonight. Yes, Love at Center and Beasley at the 4. smh Rambis
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:lol

Over/Under wolves scoring 60pts in the game

Over/Under wolves letting in a 40pt quarter (i've got over)
 
Rodeo Clown said:
Wolves going with Ridnour, Brewer, Johnson, Beasley, Love tonight. Yes, Love at Center and Beasley at the 4. smh Rambis
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haha
mixing it up! keeping people on their toes.. getting fired.. :(
 
Sharp said:
The owners do get something. They get the ability to nontender an albatross of a contract that isn't meeting expectations. If the player is any good, he will receive multiple offers (including one from the original team) and be able to pick one at will. If he isn't, it's not a big deal anyway. I'm not sure why you think the owners wouldn't spring for this or this should be a complete no-risk deal for them. I know the Wizards or Magic would jump at the opportunity to non-tender Arenas or Rashard and have only a fraction of their salaries count against their cap space...
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Not if the contract still counts towards your cap, it doesn't allow them to improve the team in any way. They're just paying 35% less, to be more awful, and improve an already contender. The only owners who would regularly do it are the ones trying to not meet attendance requirements to move teams.

Zep said:
Those are the chances you take. This is the same situation the Washington Redskins are in with Albert Haynesworth. In their case, instead of releasing and allowing him to join a playoff team, they sit and let him rot. Someone will give up a draft pick this offseason, which im sure is all they're looking for.

Works for everyone involved.
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I can see teams doing it, if you can erase it off the cap.
 
Let me say fuck a hard cap.... I hate football now because it. I think basketball has the perfect blend of cap and flexiablity... I think the Eddie Curry rule isn't a bad idea tho.. and I think it could be retooled to fit in the soft cap..
 
giri, if you can just cut a player at any time and free all his cap space then teams in rich markets will just offer huge contracts to players and cut them the moment they don't work out. They won't have to worry about age or injury history because they have money. Small teams will still be constrained by their actual budgets (as opposed to the cap) and forced to hang onto huge contracts. The large-market teams effectively suffer no repercussions under your scenario. That's awful for the league.
 
All a Hard Cap will result in is a team having to choose which young talent they want to keep, and championship teams combusting year after year due to everyone wanting a pay raise.

Look at the NHL. Blackhawks win the Stanley Cup, trade away half the team in the off-season because they can't afford 'em.
 
Sharp said:
giri, if you can just cut a player at any time and free all his cap space then teams in rich markets will just offer huge contracts to players and cut them the moment they don't work out. They don't have to worry about age or injury history because they have money. Small teams will still be constrained by their actual budgets (as opposed to the cap) and forced to hang onto huge contracts. The large-market teams effectively suffer no repercussions under your scenario. That's awful for the league.
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it's NFL part II.. then you start rear loading contracts and sign stars in their prime and BAM cut em
 
Barrage said:
All a Hard Cap will result in is a team having to choose which young talent they want to keep, and championship teams combusting year after year due to everyone wanting a pay raise.

Look at the NHL. Blackhawks win the Stanley Cup, trade away half the team in the off-season because they can't afford 'em.
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Championship teams combusting is preferable to the current setup where only a couple teams each year have a real chance of contending.
 
Barrage said:
All a Hard Cap will result in is a team having to choose which young talent they want to keep, and championship teams combusting year after year due to everyone wanting a pay raise.

Look at the NHL. Blackhawks win the Stanley Cup, trade away half the team in the off-season because they can't afford 'em.
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If parity is what you're after that's how it has to be done in basketball. It's a sport that naturally lends itself to dynasties if the core is kept the same.
 
Sharp said:
If parity is what you're after that's how it has to be done in basketball. It's a sport that naturally lends itself to dynasties if the core is kept the same.
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I love Dynasties.. and look at baseball or the Jailblazer era.. spending a buttload of money doesn't equal championship. Basketball is almost fine how it is..
 
off topic question, but who here in nba-age has gt5 and would be down for our own 2k/nba-age league. i've spoken to enough gaffers from here and 2k-age that might just warrant our own league.
aim: viakado
or pm me if you're interested.
 
Just got an email from rockets nation offering me the 4 pack (4 t-shirts, hotdogs, drinks, and whatever trinket) for 69 bucks. Its for the upcoming game against Cavs. Reading the email made it apparent that they were struggling to get anyone interested in the Cavs. "Watch the rockets attempt to slow down Mo Williams and a young Cavs team."

I LOL. What a terrible team.
 
Blackace said:
I love Dynasties.. and look at baseball or the Jailblazer era.. spending a buttload of money doesn't equal championship. Basketball is almost fine how it is..
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Hell, I agree with you. I like the fact that in basketball the best teams are the ones that tend to actually win and good teams stay good for a long time. But I also recognize that for that to happen there has to be a flip side as well... there have to be teams that are awful for a long time and only a few teams each year can be serious contenders. You can't have both parity and dynasties. As it's set up now, however, dynasties are not heavily dependent on whether you're a large-market team or not. If that changed, I would be pissed.
 
Blackace said:
I love Dynasties.. and look at baseball or the Jailblazer era.. spending a buttload of money doesn't equal championship. Basketball is almost fine how it is..
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I agree. I don't want a hard cap. I want the Wolves to able to retain their players. The death of stuff like restricted free agency would doom the team.
 
Branduil said:
Championship teams combusting is preferable to the current setup where only a couple teams each year have a real chance of contending.
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The Hard Cap doesn't prevent that though.

NHL Finals since the Hard Cap was instituted:

Hurricanes beat Oilers
Ducks beat Senators
Red Wings beat Penguins
Penguins Beat Red Wings
Blackhawks beat Flyers

7 Teams.

The 5 years before that under the Soft Cap?

Devils beat Stars
Avalanche beat Devils
Red Wings beat Hurricanes
Devils beat Ducks
Lightning beat Flames

8 Teams.
 
exarkun said:
Just got an email from rockets nation offering me the 4 pack (4 t-shirts, hotdogs, drinks, and whatever trinket) for 69 bucks. Its for the upcoming game against Cavs. Reading the email made it apparent that they were struggling to get anyone interested in the Cavs. "Watch the rockets attempt to slow down Mo Williams and a young Cavs team."

I LOL. What a terrible team.
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:lol

I laugh to hide the pain... :(
 
Sharp said:
Hell, I agree with you. I like the fact that in basketball the best teams are the ones that tend to actually win and good teams stay good for a long time. But I also recognize that for that to happen there has to be a flip side as well... there have to be teams that are awful for a long time and only a few teams each year can be serious contenders. You can't have both parity and dynasties.
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But most Dynasties in hoops are made around two great players a good coach and decent players who know their roles...

Basketball is only 8 players or so who make an everyday impact.. not like football that has 22 players... So I don't think the issue is retooling but rather you just don't have one of the top 5 players plus one of the top 10 players in the leauge at that time on your team with the right role players..
 
lol this photo is awesome

m5ckB.jpg
 
Just get rid of the luxury tax. All it does is give incentive to small market teams to not spend and suck and make profit from the tax.
 
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