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2013-14 NBA Dec |OT| The Nets are the Knicks of Basketball

Depends on how you vote MVP. He's putting up video game numbers on a great team at the moment, I think thats a good basis for a MVP vote. I'd actually like to see KD or even PG get one though.

No way he shoots 60% on those Cleveland teams. It was him and the Pips for the most part. He shoots a higher percentage now because when you have 3 years playing with other HOFers, you are in a position to take better, more efficient shoots when the defense commits to those other guys.

LeBron James winning the MVP on these Miami teams doesn't impress me.
 

Emwitus

Member
Kevin Garnett is and was an amazing passer in his prime when he would demand double teams and could take people off the dribble. People forget how agile he was. Very similar to unibrow
 
I don't want to hear about efficiency in a league where Rose won MVP shooting 44%. LMA is the best player on the best team in the better confeference. If Blazer get the #1 seed, why shouldn't he win? Nash won 2 and he's never even averaged 20ppg


LMA has an above average ws/48. Cp3 bron Durant and George are elite.

Even rose, who I don't believe should have won MVP, at least had a superstar level WS/48.

I think you have to out up superstar numbers to be an MVP. LMA is just star level.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Roy Hibbert: 53.6TS%, 47.6FG%, 76.1FT% on 4FTA

But he's made 1 out of 3 3PT this year so I guess that explains why his TS% is 2 points higher than Aldridge's?
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
LMA has an above average ws/48. Cp3 bron Durant and George are elite.

Even rose, who I don't believe should have won MVP, at least had a superstar level WS/48.

I think you have to out up superstar numbers to be an MVP. LMA is just star level.

24/11 is 'star' level for a big these days? Especially one that doesn't handle the ball? Damn. I hope Love isn't a superstar then based on his TS%.
 

Mik317

Member
MVP generally goes to the best player on the team with the best record...at least recently.

it's how Rose won his and IIRC Nash's Suns were a number one seed when he won his too.

If Portland is at the top of the league at the end, LMA might get it (or Lillard)...Same would probably be the same for Durant. Bron probably won't get it because of the conference and recent history.
 
Roy Hibbert: 53.6TS%, 47.6FG%, 76.1FT% on 4FTA

But he's made 1 out of 3 3PT this year so I guess that explains why his TS% is 2 points higher than Aldridge's?

No, it's because Hibbert's FTA/FGA rate is .414 compared to LMA's .247, but LMA is still more efficient because he doesn't turn it over while Hibbert does, but Hibbert isn't really an awesome offensive player when he's not playing Chris Bosh or Ryan Anderson.

I really like watching LMA play and he's underrated by box-score stats because there isn't one for perimeter defense without getting steals or for creating shots without getting assists, but his box-score stats still aren't great enough to be MVP caliber.
 
Roy Hibbert: 53.6TS%, 47.6FG%, 76.1FT% on 4FTA

But he's made 1 out of 3 3PT this year so I guess that explains why his TS% is 2 points higher than Aldridge's?

No it's because his fts take up a higher percentage of his scoring because he shoots a lot less than lma.
 
No way he shoots 60% on those Cleveland teams. It was him and the Pips for the most part. He shoots a higher percentage now because when you have 3 years playing with other HOFers, you are in a position to take better, more efficient shoots when the defense commits to those other guys.

LeBron James winning the MVP on these Miami teams doesn't impress me.

He's gotten significantly better since moving over to Miami and I'd argue that he still gets more double teams than most anybody in the league. Dude takes like two-three players to the hole on each drive.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
No, it's because Hibbert's FTA/FGA rate is .414 to LMA's .247, but LMA is still more efficient because he doesn't turn it over while Hibbert does, but Hibbert isn't really an awesome offensive player when he's not playing Chris Bosh or Ryan Anderson.

I didn't realize it took the rate into account. B-R makes it sound far more pedestrian:

TS% -- True Shooting Percentage; a measure of shooting effeciency that takes into account 2-point field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws.
 
I didn't realize it took the rate into account. B-R makes it sound far more pedestrian:

TS% -- True Shooting Percentage; a measure of shooting effeciency that takes into account 2-point field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws.
It's a weighted average of the shots a given player takes.
 
Explain Nash winning twice with arguably less impressive stats than Isaiah Thomas (Kings not Zeke) on a loaded team?

What the hell? Nash has a superstar ws/48, over 60%ts% led the league in assists and led the best offense in the league.

How can you compare him to Thomas?
 
I didn't realize it took the rate into account. B-R makes it sound far more pedestrian:

TS% -- True Shooting Percentage; a measure of shooting effeciency that takes into account 2-point field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws.

It doesn't directly take the rate into account but the higher the rate the higher your percentage will be if you're not Andre Drummond.
 
No way he shoots 60% on those Cleveland teams. It was him and the Pips for the most part. He shoots a higher percentage now because when you have 3 years playing with other HOFers, you are in a position to take better, more efficient shoots when the defense commits to those other guys.

LeBron James winning the MVP on these Miami teams doesn't impress me.

Playing with Wade and Bosh absolutely helps lbj a ton be more efficient but I think what helps even more is becoming the most effective post up player in the game, playing pretty much solely PF and becoming a much better jump shooter.

but meh lebron's always put up ridiculous numbers but his efficiency didn't start to skyrocket until he implemented his post game and improved his jump shot. That first year in miami he was basically cavs level efficieny and those were Wade and Bosh's best years of the big 3.
 
I didn't realize it took the rate into account. B-R makes it sound far more pedestrian:

TS% -- True Shooting Percentage; a measure of shooting effeciency that takes into account 2-point field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws.

It's

Points/[2*(FGA + 0.44*FTA)]

The FTA is multiplied by 0.44 instead of 0.5 to account for And-1s.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
LaMarcus in December (before tonight's 32-10-4 game): 24.4PPG, 13RPG, 3.4APG, 50FG%, 54.2TS%, 121 ORtg, 27.4 USG%
 
He's gotten significantly better since moving over to Miami and I'd argue that he still gets more double teams than most anybody in the league. Dude takes like two-three players to the hole on each drive.

When he gets hit with those doubles and triples now, he is passing out to Bosh, not Andy Verajao...to Wade not Mo Williams...huge difference.

He is in a great rhythm playing with 2 other, not only HOFers but 2 other FRANCHISE SUPERSTARS in their primes for going on 4 years now. I would expect him to get more efficient as he has to do less. He isn't expected to play out of his mind every night to give the team a chance to win.

He can score 20/5/5 and there is enough offense to shoulder the load. Wade/Bosh/Jesus/Chalmers/etc. makes all this a lot easier for him.
 

Mik317

Member
Lakers didn't have the best record in 2008.

I said generally.

It's not an unwritten rule of course but it was the main justification for Rose getting it over Bron and Nash getting it over Kobe. Better teams. In Kobe's case, yeah his team was around a 7th seed even with his god mode stats.

It is just a bit difficult to give the award to a guy whose team isn't the top unless he is putting up insane stats (which to be fair Bron is doing...so It wouldn't be an outrage).

Just saying that the fact that their team is better and they are all putting up great numbers for the most part gives them the leg up this time.

You figure..with Rose being dead most of the time 2 years ago (before he died truly), The Bulls were getting by with awesome teamwork and defense, so it didn't make much sense to give it to anyone on that team. This year if Durant once again leads the league in points with the added fact of more assists and rebounds (I think), and his team is tops in record, he has it in the bag I think.
 
LMA's plus or minus this year is definitely MVP-worthy though (+9.6 on, -8.9 off, like going from the best team in the NBA to the worst team in the NBA), but that probably has a lot to do with his backup being Thomas Robinson as well though.

I still don't know how much better he's playing than the last few years where he wasn't a candidate though so it would seem weird to give him MVP for Damian Lillard now being a teammate and Wesley Matthews taking a few levels in awesome.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
LMA's plus or minus this year is definitely MVP-worthy though (+9.6 on, -8.9 off, like going from the best team in the NBA to the worst team in the NBA), but that probably has a lot to do with his backup being Thomas Robinson as well though.

I still don't know how much better he's playing than the last few years where he wasn't a candidate though so it would seem weird to give him MVP for Damian Lillard now being a teammate and Wesley Matthews taking a few levels in awesome.

Matthews has digressed quit a bit in December and Portland is still trucking along because LaMarcus has picked up his play, like I mentioned above.

I'm also going to entirely dismiss individual player DRtg from now on... Robinson has the second best DRtg on the team, but every other stat suggests that his defense is really bad when he's in the game.
 
When he gets hit with those doubles and triples now, he is passing out to Bosh, not Andy Verajao...to Wade not Mo Williams...huge difference.

He is in a great rhythm playing with 2 other, not only HOFers but 2 other FRANCHISE SUPERSTARS in their primes for going on 4 years now. I would expect him to get more efficient as he has to do less. He isn't expected to play out of his mind every night to give the team a chance to win.

He can score 20/5/5 and there is enough offense to shoulder the load. Wade/Bosh/Jesus/Chalmers/etc. makes all this a lot easier for him.
don't ever include chalmers as a positive.

also, being in miami has definitely helped him pick his spots better, But his post game development and better jumper have just as much if not higher impact. and pretty much everything i said in my earlier post.

hell even wade is being super efficient now because he's dusted off his post game and implementing it a TON more this year. and he's shooting the best he has in years.
 

Emwitus

Member
don't ever include chalmers as a positive.

also, being in miami has definitely helped him pick his spots better, But his post game development and better jumper have just as much if not higher impact. and pretty much everything i said in my earlier post.

hell even wade is being super efficient now because he's dusted off his post game and implementing it a TON more this year. and he's shooting the best he has in years.
I think your giving too much credit to lebrons ugly post game
 
don't ever include chalmers as a positive.

also, being in miami has definitely helped him pick his spots better, But his post game development and better jumper have just as much if not higher impact. and pretty much everything i said in my earlier post.

hell even wade is being super efficient now because he's dusted off his post game and implementing it a TON more this year. and he's shooting the best he has in years.

I agree he has been working on the post game and I said years ago on this very thread if he ever developed a dependable dost game in this system, with Wade and Bosh, it would basically be all over for the league.

The reason he has been able to work on that aspect of his game and experiment is because he has 2 HOFer co-stars. I can't underscore how important that is to the development of his efficiency in Miami.

In Cleveland, perhaps his post game would have stagnated longer with his need to be more assertive with his raw athleticism to win.

Having 2 franchise players in a system you've been in for going on 4 years helps tremendously.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
CJ McCollum should be cleared to play in the next couple of weeks I think. Curious to see his game, him and Mo should be a nice 1-2 punch off the bench backing up Lillard and Matthews.

If only Leonard could develop into a serviceable backup center.
 
When he gets hit with those doubles and triples now, he is passing out to Bosh, not Andy Verajao...to Wade not Mo Williams...huge difference.

He is in a great rhythm playing with 2 other, not only HOFers but 2 other FRANCHISE SUPERSTARS in their primes for going on 4 years now. I would expect him to get more efficient as he has to do less. He isn't expected to play out of his mind every night to give the team a chance to win.

He can score 20/5/5 and there is enough offense to shoulder the load. Wade/Bosh/Jesus/Chalmers/etc. makes all this a lot easier for him.

He averaged more assists with the cleveand teams, they were crazy effecient in the regular season.

LBJ's field goal percentage jump boils down to; Alot smarter field goal attempts, Alot better shooting, Alot better post-game, then team mates.

I really don't see how how can downplay him improving his game in the off-season by screaming "but the teamates"
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
He averaged more assists with the cleveand teams, they were crazy effecient in the regular season.

LBJ's field goal percentage jump boils down to; Alot smarter field goal attempts, Alot better shooting, Alot better post-game, then team mates.

I really don't see how how can downplay him improving his game in the off-season by screaming "but the teamates"

You ever wonder why teams don't double-team LaMarcus in the post, like, ever?
 
So reilo, we are penciled in to come down to Portland again for the Wolves game on the 25th. It was either that or the Baaaaaaaaw-ston game on the 11th.

I figured the Wolves game would be more entertaining...and I would get to see NON
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
So reilo, we are penciled in to come down to Portland again for the Wolves game on the 25th. It was either that or the Baaaaaaaaw-ston game on the 11th.

I figured the Wolves game would be more entertaining...and I would get to see NON

Wtf is NON
 
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