Support NeoGAF

[Kave_Man]

I don't think people understand how bad Grunwald is as a GM. Let me summarize, again:

Grunwald traded Stoudamire for Bryce Drew and Mirsad Turkcan, then Camby for the corpse of Charles Oakley and Sean Fucking Marks, and Tracy McGrady for that French Guy That Isn't In Basketball-Reference.com's Database.

Then that same GM traded a first round pick for Andrea Bargnani,.

He's considered the best GM the Knicks have had in the past 15 years.

Oh definitely not saying Grunwald was any good. Just saying from what I remember of the circumstances he seemed to be forced into making the trades.

I still hate them to this day and often dream of what could have happened with TMac and Vince playing together.

 

[Rodeo Clown]

The most hilarious part about the Billups amnesty was that his contract was expiring that season anyhow lol.

That final year of his contract wasn't guaranteed and they could've bought him out like $3M, I think. But they guaranteed it and then had to amnesty him a couple weeks later. Because that makes sense.

 

[jordan0386]

Cmon guys, dont be dicks. They cut Chauncey to sign Tyson.

 

[Fox318]

The most hilarious part about the Billups amnesty was that his contract was expiring that season anyhow lol.

They did that to sign Chandler.

 

[reilo]

Cmon guys, dont be dicks. They cut Chauncey to sign Tyson.

The point is they could've done that anyway without using the amnesty on Billups.

They had two options:

1. Buy Chauncey's contract out for $3mil
2. Amnesty Amar'e

Instead, they chose option 3 like Rodeo stated.

That final year of his contract wasn't guaranteed and they could've bought him out like $3M, I think. But they guaranteed it and then had to amnesty him a couple weeks later. Because that makes sense.

 

[Marauder Shields]

Tbf to the Knicks I don't think they really planned the Chandler signing, I think they kinda just walked into it. If they'd planned it there's no way they would have taken up Billup's option.

Not much of a defense I know, but hey.

 

[reilo]

I totally forgot that Gucci went to a different mod to get his username changed after he got renamed to MVP Pioneer and after he bailed on his avatar bet early.

#staylosing

 

[Zeus Molecules]

Shumpert made that comment...

I'm going to miss shump...

Only thing keeping him from being traded right is knowing reality that teams are probably offering rape deals and mills is too new to the job to bend over and touch his toes yet.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/...0/08/Marketing-and-Sponsorship/Chase-CAA.aspx

Also read this and had my eyes opened.... like we're sports fans talking about Dolan is an idiot (and he is) but this motherfucker has a method to his stupidity.... Get money....

 

[linsivvi]

I totally forgot that Gucci went to a different mod to get his username changed after he got renamed to MVP Pioneer and after he bailed on his avatar bet early.

#staylosing

Wow....what a loser.

 

[Zeus Molecules]

I totally forgot that Gucci went to a different mod to get his username changed after he got renamed to MVP Pioneer and after he bailed on his avatar bet early.

#staylosing

that is a bad look.....

 

[giri]

ace at this point me getting banned for calling kad dumb was.. ridiculous

Favors looked awesome last night, really outplayed Roy Hibbert.

Hey i thought the part where he made fun of a kid with a genetic neurological disease would have secured it. Think Ace just been busy.

 

[giri]

That final year of his contract wasn't guaranteed and they could've bought him out like $3M, I think. But they guaranteed it and then had to amnesty him a couple weeks later. Because that makes sense.

They had to guarantee it or Billups was going to retire / refuse to be part of the trade. Which means they would have had no PG at all as they sent felton to denver.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

I don't think people understand how bad Grunwald is as a GM. Let me summarize, again:

Grunwald traded Stoudamire for Bryce Drew and Mirsad Turkcan, then Camby for the corpse of Charles Oakley and Sean Fucking Marks, and Tracy McGrady for that French Guy That Isn't In Basketball-Reference.com's Database.

That's not really fair though. All those things you mention happened early in Grunwald's run in Toronto, when the team was in a situation where nobody wanted to play here. It was seen as a total backwater, they didn't have a real arena, the team sucked, and they wore purple dinosaur pyjamas.

Damon Stoudamire - when Isiah left, Damon loudly demanded a trade. Grunwald didn't have a lot of leverage, but he got a couple of first rounders and Alvin Williams who wasn't a star but went on to be one of the best Raptors ever.

Marcus Camby - People forget, but he was a punk early in his career. He had a bunch of question marks over his head and when the Knicks got him people were pissed they'd lost a heart & soul guy like Oakley for a maybe. It's easy to look at that trade in hindsight, but it just wouldn't have worked out in Toronto with Camby and Oakley went on to be the backbone of the best Raptor team ever. There isn't much regret in Toronto over that one.

T-Mac completely fucked the team over, he verbally said he'd re-sign and then bolted in the offseason. This was before teams had the right to match after rookie deals ended. That 'trade' only happened because it was the mandatory compensation under the CBA at the time, the team had no leverage under the NBA rules. Life lesson: T-Mac is a dickhead.

Grunwald is well remembered as the guy who built the Raptor team that was one Vince Carter brick away from the conference finals. The team stagnated after that because Vince said he wouldn't re-sign unless Grunwald gave everybody else a deal and ownership saw him as their meal ticket so they made him do it. The team went into cap hell soon after.

Grunwald lost his GM role, and wound up as the President & CEO of the Toronto Board of Trade. He's a legitimately smart dude...

Then that same GM traded a first round pick for Andrea Bargnani,.

...though I'm imagining he was either raging drunk or Jimbo Dolan was pointing a machete at his head when this happened.

 

[Dominican Power]

.

I don't know what he's talking about. He's just as culpable for the ball not moving. He all he does is isolate and shoot nothing but long jumpers.Doesn't even have the proper coordination to drive to the hoop without fucking up his footwork or fumbling the ball out of bounds.

 

[The Frankman]

Shumpert made that comment...

Amare did also. I guess they both did but I'm reffering to Mr. 43/4.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

Oh definitely not saying Grunwald was any good. Just saying from what I remember of the circumstances he seemed to be forced into making the trades.

I still hate them to this day and often dream of what could have happened with TMac and Vince playing together.

That had nothing to do with Grunwald and everything to do with T-Mac not wanting to play with Vince. He wanted to be the man on his own team. Under the NBA rules of the time the team couldn't force him to stay like they can now.

 

[linsivvi]

...though I'm imagining he was either raging drunk or Jimbo Dolan was pointing a machete at his head when this happened.

Or his loyalty still lies with the Raptors and thought he'd do them a solid.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

Or his loyalty still lies with the Raptors and thought he'd do them a solid.

One day it will be revealed that Grunwald and Isiah were both deep cover Raptor double agents.

 

[TheSadRanger]

Supposedly Stern really wanted this game to be played

 

[Mothman91]

I wonder if Otto will play tomorrow.

 

[Fox318]

Supposedly Stern really wanted this game to be played

The things pop will do to get Tim a day off.

 

[Iron E Man]

Didn't realize Charles would be doing commentary for the Knicks/Nets game. That should be fun.

 

[Mothman91]

Didn't realize Charles would be doing commentary for the Knicks/Nets game. That should be fun.

YES!!

 

[Forever]

Yo. What's good? I almost forgot that today was the day. Gonna try to multitask this shit. This is the one game I gotta see.

Let's see, what did I miss. Frank undermining Kidd? Game of Thrones type palace coup? Crazy shit. Maybe that's why the defense fucking sucked.

Knicks on a 9 game losing streak? Woodson on the chopping block? Kenyon and Metta fighting? CAA forced Grunwald to trade for Bargs instead of Lamarcus Aldridge? Knicks front office begging the rest of the league to please take Shumpert, he's not really this bad we're just using him wrong? This would be fucking basketball nirvana if we were more than two wins ahead of them.

The good news is that it looks like we're going to end up with the 4th seed, pretty much by default, and might not even need to be over .500 to do it (lol). As for tonight, I've got a bad feeling that we're going to lose because a win right now would be too good to be true. The Knicks know that if they lose half that organization is getting fired/traded, they're playing for their lives.

 

[Fox318]

Didn't realize Charles would be doing commentary for the Knicks/Nets game. That should be fun.

"New Yorkers don't deserve this, they deserve worse"

 

[Coldnoodle]

Didn't realize Charles would be doing commentary for the Knicks/Nets game. That should be fun.

 

[Incognito]

Didn't realize Charles would be doing commentary for the Knicks/Nets game. That should be fun.

Amazing. Can't wait to see this spectacle.

 

[Truphenom]

Yo. What's good? I almost forgot that today was the day. Gonna try to multitask this shit. This is the one game I gotta see.

Let's see, what did I miss. Frank undermining Kidd? Game of Thrones type palace coup? Crazy shit. Maybe that's why the defense fucking sucked.

Knicks on a 9 game losing streak? Woodson on the chopping block? Kenyon and Metta fighting? CAA forced Grunwald to trade for Bargs instead of Lamarcus Aldridge? Knicks front office begging the rest of the league to please take Shumpert, he's not really this bad we're just using him wrong? This would be fucking basketball nirvana if we were more than two wins ahead of them.

The good news is that it looks like we're going to end up with the 4th seed, pretty much by default, and might not even need to be over .500 to do it (lol). As for tonight, I've got a bad feeling that we're going to lose because a win right now would be too good to be true. The Knicks know that if they lose half that organization is getting fired/traded, they're playing for their lives.

That is exactly why the Knicks are losing tonight, it needs to happen. Nets ain't winning the division tho lol.

 

[Emwitus]

Didn't realize Charles would be doing commentary for the Knicks/Nets game. That should be fun.

LOL

 

[The Frankman]

Nets are gonna be that good chicken noodle soup for the Knicks. Y'know when you're all messed up and you need something to make you feel right, even for one night? Hello Brooklyn.

EDIT: I keep having to play catchup on the thread. Are people trying to say Billups was cut for no reason? No one forecasted the Mavs wouldn't sign Chandler and the Knicks guaranteed Billups' deal. Once it came out that Chandler wouldn't be resigned Knicks jumped in. They didn't try for Chandler 1st and haphazardly guarantee Billups.

 

[DY_nasty]

I think we need to pull out the Wayback Machine again before tonight's game...

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Yep, might as well amnesty the best PG they had on their roster and leave the shell of Amare Stoudemire instead.

Billups has played in 49 games in the three years since then and has been total garbage in almost all of them, lol. It would have been better to amnesty Amare, but doing that could have scared Chandler away since Amare was still viewed as a great player. Billups being signed was a sunk cost so it's irrelevant. The decision was whether to keep Billups or to sign Chandler. Chandler is great, Billups is irrelevant so amnestying him and signing Chandler was definitely the correct choice. Going back to then, Chandler was coming off a year where he was the second best player on a title team and a DPotY caliber guy while Billups was a declining, 34 year old PG. Almost every other move the Knicks have made in the last decade have been worse than amnestying Billups.

 

[Dominican Power]

Yo. What's good? I almost forgot that today was the day. Gonna try to multitask this shit. This is the one game I gotta see.

Let's see, what did I miss. Frank undermining Kidd? Game of Thrones type palace coup? Crazy shit. Maybe that's why the defense fucking sucked.

Knicks on a 9 game losing streak? Woodson on the chopping block? Kenyon and Metta fighting? CAA forced Grunwald to trade for Bargs instead of Lamarcus Aldridge? Knicks front office begging the rest of the league to please take Shumpert, he's not really this bad we're just using him wrong? This would be fucking basketball nirvana if we were more than two wins ahead of them.

The good news is that it looks like we're going to end up with the 4th seed, pretty much by default, and might not even need to be over .500 to do it (lol). As for tonight, I've got a bad feeling that we're going to lose because a win right now would be too good to be true. The Knicks know that if they lose half that organization is getting fired/traded, they're playing for their lives.

You're Forever a clown though.

 

[Vic]

Didn't realize Charles would be doing commentary for the Knicks/Nets game. That should be fun.

OH MY GOD. No way I'm missing this.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

What's really funny is that the Atlantic division is so bad that if NYK gets back on track even a little when Chandler returns, they could easily get HCA in the playoffs. They're only 3 games back right now.

 

[Nightstick11]

If the Nets continue like this, they'll have given up Damian Lillard so they could pay Gerald Wallace $40 million and will have given up a top 5 pick in this draft so they could pay Joe Johnson $85 million. These moves were only so that they would be able to pay Deron Williams $100 million. This doesn't seem to be working out.

Remember when Deron could have played with Dirk and had Rick Carlisle as his coach and he decided Joe Johnson and Coach Avery Johnson were more appealing options?

Can't wait for the Clash of the Train-Wrecks tonight!

 

[LegendofJoe]

Glad you enjoyed it!

Yeah, Tulsa's a nice town, and definitely has some things over OKC. More artsy culture, prettier natural surroundings, better architecture, etc. Has a nice smallish-town feel while being decently-sized enough to have things to do.

Definitely make sure to hit up the Philbrook Museum next time you're here. The museum/house itself is awesome, and the surrounding neighborhood is very cool as well.

We almost went to the Philbrook, but we ended up driving around town instead. I'm definitely going to check it out next time we're in town though.

 

[Herpes Reasons]

Didn't realize Charles would be doing commentary for the Knicks/Nets game. That should be fun.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

We have an opportunity to share a special moment tonight.

 

[Pkaz01]

Didn't realize Charles would be doing commentary for the Knicks/Nets game. That should be fun.

Yess they read my post from yesterday

I like how not even vegas picked a winner they just left it up to the gods

 

[Zep]

Like I was telling Gaby, its funny how the Knicks start off a game moving the ball around, scoring easily without Melo being involved...Then they decide to go into melo-ball and everyone on the team just stops moving completely. I figure with criticism going around and it being a national tv game, the Knicks will actually move the ball for four quarters tonight.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Today is going to be epic. One way or the other.

JOIN ME IN A CEREMONIOUS HOLDING OF HANDS, KNICKS-AGE! LET US UNITE ONCE MORE AND OVERCOME THESE DEMONS.

 

[diehard]

i'll be rooting for the Knicks.

for basketball reasons.

 

[Cheddahz]

Today is going to be epic. One way or the other.

JOIN ME IN A CEREMONIOUS HOLDING OF HANDS, KNICKS-AGE! LET US UNITE ONCE MORE AND OVERCOME THESE DEMONS.

 

[Dominican Power]

Like I was telling Gaby, its funny how the Knicks start off a game moving the ball around, scoring easily without Melo being involved...Then they decide to go into melo-ball and everyone on the team just stops moving completely. I figure with criticism going around and it being a national tv game, the Knicks will actually move the ball for four quarters tonight.

If the game is close and it's the 4th quarter, it's not moving.

 

[Zep]

If the game is close and it's the 4th quarter, it's not moving.

Honestly, I think the Knicks are gonna blow them out.

 

[giri]

Like I was telling Gaby, its funny how the Knicks start off a game moving the ball around, scoring easily without Melo being involved...Then they decide to go into melo-ball and everyone on the team just stops moving completely. I figure with criticism going around and it being a national tv game, the Knicks will actually move the ball for four quarters tonight.

Its a double edged thing. You hinted at it. When Melo gets the ball they stop moving. Why?

And so many on that team are out to get theirs.

They actually REALLY miss Kidd's leadership on that team. He kept so much of the shit in control.

 

[Zep]

Its a double edged thing. You hinted at it. When Melo gets the ball they stop moving. Why?

And so many on that team are out to get theirs.

They actually REALLY miss Kidd's leadership on that team. He kept so much of the shit in control.

Yep.

Reason #1 they stop moving? Because they know Melo is gonna iso-bully his way into the paint with his head down. I like when players are extremely aggressive getting to the basket. The problem with players like Carmelo and to a lesser extent, Cousins, is that they do it with their head down and then jack up terrible shots that get blocked or are so badly missed that it starts a break going the other way while hes complaining to the ref. Melo would be the perfect stretch 4, like he is with the Olympic team...But his ego just won't allow it when it comes to the NBA.

 

[Eleuin]

Somehow this will end in a tie

 

[The Frankman]

Today is going to be epic. One way or the other.

JOIN ME IN A CEREMONIOUS HOLDING OF HANDS, KNICKS-AGE! LET US UNITE ONCE MORE AND OVERCOME THESE DEMONS.