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2013-2014 NCAA Men's Basketball |OT|

B

bucknuticus

Member
Good game sparty. Always a fun one between us.

Craft with the most craft play ever late in that game. His career here at the Schott couldn't end any differently.
 
G

george_us

Member
Gorillaz said:
For as fucked up as a year we had, OSU pulling out this win against Mich state is a good end .
i'll take it
52kIF.png
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Indeed. If we make it to the Sweet 16 I'll consider this tourney a rousing success.
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
truly101 said:
I'm surprised at the amount of people writing off Wichita St like they're some sort of fraud.
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Who are they?

They have played no ranked opponents, have played only 5 top 100 teams (using ESPN's BPI), 3 top 50, no top 25, and none of any of them since December. Yeah, they went to the Final Four last year, but this year's team hasn't beaten anybody. Perhaps we can add "yet."
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
Randolph Freelander said:
Who are they?

They have played no ranked opponents, have played only 5 top 100 teams (using ESPN's BPI), 3 top 50, no top 25, and none of any of them since December. Yeah, they went to the Final Four last year, but this year's team hasn't beaten anybody. Perhaps we can add "yet."
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http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/the_invisible_hand_of_home_court_advantage

But I’m sure some of those voters must think Syracuse is truly the best. It’s weird that people aren’t free to put a team with losses ahead of Syracuse but are allowed to do that with respect to Wichita State. Sure, the Shockers’ schedule has been weaker than the Orange’s. But if you were ranking based on accomplishment, Syracuse and Wichita State have accomplished the most of any team in the land so far. Even against Wichita State’s schedule, going unbeaten is extremely difficult.

In fact, the best win among the two teams by any objective method was the Shockers’ win at Saint Louis. Really, any proper way you try to assess difficulty will indicate that winning at Saint Louis is tougher than beating Duke at home. It’s not all that close.
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(Syracuse has since lost 4 games, proving... something. Maybe)
 
G

Grover Cleveland

Member
truly101 said:
I'm surprised at the amount of people writing off Wichita St like they're some sort of fraud.
Click to expand...

The team they play in the second round of the NCAAT will probably be the best team they've played this year.

They can get to the FF just because of how wide open the bracket is, but they could easily end up like Gonzaga last year too.

EDIT: Forgot about the SLU win. The team they play in the second round will be the second best team they've played all year.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
Warren with 31 and we're in a barn burner with BC at home lol. How ACC POY is even a conversation at this point is beyond me. He has by far the highest WAR over any player in the league and probably the country.

36 now, he is a fucking god.
 
T

theprodigy

Member
Grover Cleveland said:
The team they play in the second round of the NCAAT will probably be the best team they've played this year.

They can get to the FF just because of how wide open the bracket is, but they could easily end up like Gonzaga last year too.

EDIT: Forgot about the SLU win. The team they play in the second round will be the second best team they've played all year.
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brb picking the 9 seed in Wichita St's region to make the Final Four
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
NC State should be angry with themselves. They have 3 games that they frankly should have won, which would put them at 12-6 in the ACC, 22-9 overall, and safely in the NCAA tournament.

They lost at Wake by 1 after leading the entire game. The opening line to the recap tells you all you need to know.

Codi Miller-McIntyre hit a running shot while being fouled with 4.9 seconds left to help Wake Forest beat North Carolina State 70-69 on Wednesday night.
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That's so NC State. They also should have beaten Syracuse on the road, and they should have beaten North Carolina at home. They blew both of those games. With his stats, at 12-6 in the league, I don't think anyone would argue against Warren to a large degree. But at 9-9 in a weak ACC? Eh. Great player, mediocre team, who cares.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
Randolph Freelander said:
NC State should be angry with themselves. They have 3 games that they frankly should have won, which would put them at 12-6 in the ACC, 22-9 overall, and safely in the NCAA tournament.

They lost at Wake by 1 after leading the entire game. The opening line to the recap tells you all you need to know.



That's so NC State. They also should have beaten Syracuse on the road, and they should have beaten North Carolina at home. They blew both of those games. With his stats, at 12-6 in the league, I don't think anyone would argue against Warren to a large degree. But at 9-9 in a weak ACC? Eh. Great player, mediocre team, who cares.
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So instead give it to a mediocre player on a great team? That makes sense.
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
Crisco said:
So instead give it to a mediocre player on a great team? That makes sense.
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No one is even suggesting that. But there are certainly some great players on actually good teams.

Frankly, I don't know who to give it to. I don't watch other teams play that often. I watch Duke, and I don't really have a frame of reference to know whether Parker is a legit POY player. I hear national commentators call him first team All-American and #2 behind what's his name for Creighton, and I just have to shrug my shoulders, because it's hard for me to see him being that good. As for ACC, heck, for all I know, it's Paige, because in the two games I've seen him play, he destroyed Duke at Chapel Hill and came close last night. Or maybe it's CJ Fair, because he destroyed Duke up at Syracuse.
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
Randolph Freelander said:
No one is even suggesting that. But there are certainly some great players on actually good teams.

Frankly, I don't know who to give it to. I don't watch other teams play that often. I watch Duke, and I don't really have a frame of reference to know whether Parker is a legit POY player. I hear national commentators call him first team All-American and #2 behind what's his name for Creighton, and I just have to shrug my shoulders, because it's hard for me to see him being that good. As for ACC, heck, for all I know, it's Paige, because in the two games I've seen him play, he destroyed Duke at Chapel Hill and came close last night. Or maybe it's CJ Fair, because he destroyed Duke up at Syracuse.
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Warren is pulling some Kobe 2006 shit. It should be his.
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
Well, I'll have to talk yalls' word for it. I look at like if you're all your team has, you're going to put up big numbers by default. Or another way, if he's ahead of Parker or Ennis, et. al, in the ACC, should he not be ahead of them in Wooden and All-American honors? Or another another way, as the old adage goes, wouldn't NC State be just as bad without him? Or another another another way, usually the MVP is the best player off (one of) the best team(s).

Then again, to run contrary, A-Rod did win the MVP in 2003 on the last place Rangers. So go figure.

Anyway, as I've said, I don't have much frame of reference, and I'm not particularly arguing for the one player I know most about ahead of him. I've seen Warren play a full game once, and Duke killed NC State that game. He scored 23, which helped them not lose by more than 35.
 
T

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
I can't help but wonder if NCSU wins a couple of games in the ACCT if they will get a strong consideration because of Warren. Without him, nobody cares about a 21-12 wolfpack team.
 
I

inm8num2

Member
Nebraska has to be a lock now. Hope Minnesota can get in, too.

MSU is 5-7 in their last 12 games. Seven straight weekends with a loss. Bah.
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
Laura Keeley (Duke beat writer for Raleigh and Charlotte newspapers) put out her ACC honor selections

Right after Duke lost to Notre Dame, way back on Jan. 4, an N.C. State sports information director sent out a tweet mocking Jabari Parker.

"Jabari is great player. Talented. But he's not the best scorer in the country, or even the 919 area code."

And while I found the delivery unprofessional, I came to agree with that sentiment. T.J. Warren is a great scorer. His back-to-back 40-point games to close the season—something not done in the ACC since 1957—stand as a testament to that.

Still, T.J. Warren is not my pick for ACC player of the year. I went with Duke’s Jabari Parker.

I looked at a myriad of stats—points, shooting percentage, true shooting percentage, effective field goal percentage, rebounds, offensive rebound percentage, defensive rebound percentage, offensive rating, block percentage, steal percentage, assists, turnovers, usage rate, to name most of them—and talked to a few people whose opinion I trust before I made my decision. I believe Parker is more versatile and does a better job of making his teammates better. There isn’t a WAR (wins above replacement) stat for college basketball, to my knowledge, but I believe both Parker and Warren’s value in that category would be high. Ultimately, I believe Parker has had the better season and has had a more valuable impact on his team.

Look up the stats if you want. You’ll see that Warren leads the league in scoring and field goal percentage. You’ll see that Parker ranks second in scoring and first in rebounding (in conference play) and is the better passer, as well as a bevy of other facts. I made my decision. I stand by it.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/03/09/3688944/laura-keeleys-2013-14-basketball.html#storylink=cpy
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More at the embedded link.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
The real crime is being left off the Wooden award ballot entirely. He's the #3 scorer in the entire country with a higher FG% than anyone else in the top 10.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Warren should without question get the nod, but I don't think he will. Jabari and Duke a much more interesting story to the media than NC State.

edit: shouldn't say without question. Jabari ain't exactly a benchwarmer. Don't really have a problem if he gets it, but I'd vote for Warren.
 
B

BTM

Member
Big Papa Husker said:
Here we go.. Nebraska vs Wisconsin. Nebraska wins they get to the Dance for the first time since 1998.

GO BIG RED!!

IN MILES WE TRUST!
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GO BIG RED!

That is the most insane game I have attended. Crowd was absolutely bonkers the entire game. I was on the verge of tears man.

Let's go dancing!
 
C

Crisco

Banned
Man, I wonder where Warren get's drafted now. Dude has legit top pick potential but before these last two games he wasn't even mocked in most people's lottery. Some team like the Spurs was probably salivating at the prospect of getting a player of his caliber towards the end of the first round. Now I don't think he makes it out of the lottery. Dude is going to absolutely abuse people in pre-draft workouts, none of these freshman can play any defense. The really scary thing about him is that he's scoring all those points without a great 3 point shot or much of a post game. He's got room to grow athletically too, having just lost over 20 pounds this past off season. He's going to be the top value in the draft with all those over-hyped freshman coming off the board ahead of him. He's basically what Harrison Barnes was supposed to be in college.
 
G

Grover Cleveland

Member
Crisco said:
Man, I wonder where Warren get's drafted now. Dude has legit top pick potential but before these last two games he wasn't even mocked in most people's lottery. Some team like the Spurs was probably salivating at the prospect of getting a player of his caliber towards the end of the first round. Now I don't think he makes it out of the lottery. Dude is going to absolutely abuse people in pre-draft workouts, none of these freshman can play any defense. The really scary thing about him is that he's scoring all those points without a great 3 point shot or much of a post game. He's got room to grow athletically too, having just lost over 20 pounds this past off season. He's going to be the top value in the draft with all those over-hyped freshman coming off the board ahead of him. He's basically what Harrison Barnes was supposed to be in college.
Click to expand...

Andrew Wiggins is an elite on-ball defender. That's been by far, his biggest asset this season.

The rest of the post I agree with.
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
Crisco said:
Man, I wonder where Warren get's drafted now. Dude has legit top pick potential but before these last two games he wasn't even mocked in most people's lottery. Some team like the Spurs was probably salivating at the prospect of getting a player of his caliber towards the end of the first round. Now I don't think he makes it out of the lottery. Dude is going to absolutely abuse people in pre-draft workouts, none of these freshman can play any defense. The really scary thing about him is that he's scoring all those points without a great 3 point shot or much of a post game. He's got room to grow athletically too, having just lost over 20 pounds this past off season. He's going to be the top value in the draft with all those over-hyped freshman coming off the board ahead of him. He's basically what Harrison Barnes was supposed to be in college.
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I'm not sure about that. He's definitely in the "'tweener, stay away" category. And we're littered with guys who had limited athleticism having great success scoring in college. Now you can level the same criticism at Parker to a certain extent, and that's a valid concern, but we've seen skillsets from his offense that will translate to the next level. He'll be able to get his shot off with that jab step till he's 40.

I remember people thought the Spurs got a steal with Deshaun Thomas after he fell to the bottom of the 2nd round.

He's playing in France now.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
I wouldn't call Warren limited athletically, you can't compare every SF to Lebron James. He's a very smooth athlete with great instinct, body control and plenty of strength to finish through contact. What he lacks in explosiveness he more than makes up for in skill, just look at the supposedly more athletic defenders he's abused this year. The dude is an elite enough scorer for his game to translate to the NBA, especially assuming he continues to improve as a long range shooter and ball handler. Also he scores most of his points from the area of the floor that is the hardest to defend in the NBA due to the rules governing zone defenses, so he'll see very beneficial spacing along with being matched up against secondary defenders.
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
Top 10s

(AP)
1 Florida (50) 29-2 1,610
2 Wichita State (15) 34-0 1,574
3 Villanova 28-3 1,454
4 Arizona 28-3 1,435
5 Louisville 26-5 1,237
6 Virginia 25-6 1,186
7 Duke 24-7 1,185
8 Michigan 23-7 1,143
8 San Diego State 27-3 1,143
10 Kansas 23-8 1,087

(USA Today Coaches)
1 Florida (25) 29-2 793
2 Wichita State (7) 34-0 775
3 Villanova 28-3 721
4 Arizona 28-3 678
5 Louisville 26-5 654
6 Duke 24-7 591
7 San Diego State 27-3 584
8 Virginia 25-6 581
9 Michigan 23-7 536
10 Kansas 23-8 509

Syracuse 11, North Carolina 15 in both polls.
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
Grover Cleveland said:
Maryland students chant "BIG10" after beating Virginia

They really are excited about getting smashed in East Lansing, Columbus, and Ann Arbor as opposed to Durham and Chapel Hill.
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I saw (admittedly just one) a Maryland guy on a comments steam complaining about the one-sided rivalries in the ACC, since Maryland would never be North Carolina for Duke. But what does dude expect in the Big 10? Nobody is going to be jumping up and down for the Turtles coming to town. Maybe they'll commiserate with the similarly vagabond Rutgers program.
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
Crisco said:
I wouldn't call Warren limited athletically, you can't compare every SF to Lebron James. He's a very smooth athlete with great instinct, body control and plenty of strength to finish through contact. What he lacks in explosiveness he more than makes up for in skill, just look at the supposedly more athletic defenders he's abused this year. The dude is an elite enough scorer for his game to translate to the NBA, especially assuming he continues to improve as a long range shooter and ball handler. Also he scores most of his points from the area of the floor that is the hardest to defend in the NBA due to the rules governing zone defenses, so he'll see very beneficial spacing along with being matched up against secondary defenders.
Click to expand...

He finishes well after contact which is great. The question is if he'll be able to actually get to the hoop on a consistent basis.

And history says that if you're not an above average shooter in college, odds are you're not gonna find that shot in the NBA either.

Iso is bad basketball, but it at least helps to tell the story on a draft prospect, and Jabari passes the iso test very very well.

Not every wing player is LeBron, but Melo is a good measuring stick. He's not the quickest guy but he's stupid strong (6'8 230) in the post and has a lightning quick release on his jumpshot.
 
T

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
So who wants to speculate on the storyline seedings for the NCAA tourney that the committee says they never intend but there they are anyway.

SMU vs UNC
Memphis vs UK
Minny vs UL
Buffalo vs Duke (if Buffalo wins their tourney)

Wichita St vs SDSU to cancel one of each other out?
 
K

Kalnos

Banned
truly101 said:
So who wants to speculate on the storyline seedings for the NCAA tourney that the committee says they never intend but there they are anyway.

SMU vs UNC
Memphis vs UK
Minny vs UL
Buffalo vs Duke (if Buffalo wins their tourney)

Wichita St vs SDSU to cancel one of each other out?
Click to expand...

Oklahoma State vs UK (Travis Ford).
UNC vs Creighton (only because of the drama last time)
 
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