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2013 NBA Playoffs |OT| Lakers started from the bottom, and they still there
- Thread starter reilo
- Start date
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
It couldn't possibly be because he played in the biggest market in the country, right?
Nope. Not at all
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I think Nash is overrated as well.. He is awesome in the open court, but he is decent running half court.
Stockton was also a great (dirty) defender.. I think he would mess with Walt too.
Prime Allan would be the best 2 guard in the league right now.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Ray Allen, yeah
You're right, all those greatest all time offenses he ran were just flukes and only ever happened on the break.
I don't get your insistence that he was a average at best half court PG. He was devastating in the PnR and executed it at ridiculously good efficiency, and that's neglecting all the plays for wings, or off the ball that were run.
I can only assume it's one way to try and over hype payton in the versus thing.
Still counts.
Ray Allen>Houston>Harden. With today's rules Houston would put up 25 a game too. Houston was schooling Kobe when Kobe was an all world defender and could hand check. In today's NBA where you can't put your hands on guys and 3's have more value placed on them than midrange shooting Houston would kill. He was bigger than Harden and more athletic than him.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
All of the greatest PG are devasting in the PnR and I don't need to overhype GP, because he was a superior player on both ends of the court.
His PHX/DAL teams were uptempo and open court teams. The half court sets they ran were PnR/PnS.. I never said the dude was horrible, but he was no Stockton or Kidd in the half court..
Show some respect Frazier put up 36 points and 19 assists in a finals game 7. He deserved all of the hype.
And he probably got your grandma pregnant...
Yeah, I'd still be mad about that floater going in too.
All Klay can do is shoot. And he isn't even good shooting off the dribble. Houston ran offense for the Knicks and had a good post game to go a long with ability to shoot off the dribble and he had a good crossover. Klay is a mediocre athlete Houston was nearly elite. Grant Hill said Houston was a better dunker than him. Houston was also in the dunk contest(even though he did a shit dunk). Him and Klay are nothing a like.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
so 39 pts and 19 ast 7 rebound and 5 stls in a game 7 finals mean nothing right.... being voted into the top 50 players ever by the NBA is just because he played in NY
*h3roheatrafters.gif*
The most famous thing Allan Houston is known for is a rule named after him because the dumbfuck Knicks gave him one of the worst contracts ever
He also doesn't have nearly the same responsibility, EVER, that Harden carries for the Rockets
He was a good player but you tremendously overrated the past, especially when "New York" is on the jersey
And if being in the dunk contest means you're an elite athlete we have a lot of elite athletes then. Which means many of them are not really 'elite'
14 years later, we will have our revenge
Not really
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
Then why bring up his shoe deal? Marketability <> ability as a basketball player.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
That wasn't me man that was another poster.... I am arguing that he is a top PG. the sneaker deal was more about him being a cool icon in the 70's. With that said I do own some puma clydes.
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
If being good at basketball is the only requisite for getting a shoe deal, Bill Walton would've had one...
Too soon.
Too soon.
The most famous thing Allan Houston is known for is a rule named after him because the dumbfuck Knicks gave him one of the worst contracts ever
He also doesn't have nearly the same responsibility, EVER, that Harden carries for the Rockets
He was a good player but you tremendously overrated the past, especially when "New York" is on the jersey
And if being in the dunk contest means you're an elite athlete we have a lot of elite athletes then. Which means many of them are not really 'elite'
14 years later, we will have our revenge
Not really
lol. He carried the Knicks to the finals. Harden has never been that good.
The NBA has a lot of elite athletes beyond the stars. Skills are what separates players in the NBA more than anything. There are guys on teams that get no run who are elite athletically.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
With his feet?m
When Frazier got his shoe deal companies weren't handing them out to guys like candy like they do now. Frazier highly regarded by NBA players even today.
I think "carried to the finals" is usually reserved for players that scored the most points and/or attempted the most shots for the team, and a combo of the efficiency of both, blah blah
Neither of which happened for him
James Harden doesn't have a Latrell Sprewell to bail his ass out
Future PhaZe
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TegJRPPJce8
B-Ball Breakdown POST Spurs/Lakers game 2 show. Some breakdowns on the Mike Brown hire, etc.
An hour long so its good for passing some time at work. Interested in hearing his take.
B-Ball Breakdown POST Spurs/Lakers game 2 show. Some breakdowns on the Mike Brown hire, etc.
An hour long so its good for passing some time at work. Interested in hearing his take.
Well I hope you guys are right. If there's a series that needs to go 7, this is it.
Tragicomedy
Member
Goudelock with the rest of the series, Lakers GAF. You're going to need it.
------
Regarding the PG discussion: the Glove was better than your favorite PG is/was. Not only could he match them offensively, but the dude was an absolutely devastating lockdown defender. Nash may be a better shooter. Kidd may be a better rebounder. Stockton may be a better passer. But nobody combined all those elements as well as Payton.
His game looked effortless on both sides of the court. He was constantly chewing gum, getting in guy's faces, and jawing away. He got into people's heads. He shut down the other team's best perimeter player. He ran a mean fast break and great half-court offense. His finger roll was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen in the NBA. He was fearless.
I wouldn't put too much stock on the hand check aspect of the era he played in, though. Yes, it made it more difficult to score and makes all of Jordan's scoring feats that much more impressive. But let's not pretend the Glove didn't manhandle dudes with his hands as well. He was probably the most physical defensive PG of all-time, so it goes both ways. In the 1996 Finals, Ron Harper and Scottie Pippen mangled Payton the entire time. He would average 14 foul shots a game under the current rules. But so would his opponent...so it's a bit of a wash.
------
Regarding the PG discussion: the Glove was better than your favorite PG is/was. Not only could he match them offensively, but the dude was an absolutely devastating lockdown defender. Nash may be a better shooter. Kidd may be a better rebounder. Stockton may be a better passer. But nobody combined all those elements as well as Payton.
His game looked effortless on both sides of the court. He was constantly chewing gum, getting in guy's faces, and jawing away. He got into people's heads. He shut down the other team's best perimeter player. He ran a mean fast break and great half-court offense. His finger roll was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen in the NBA. He was fearless.
I wouldn't put too much stock on the hand check aspect of the era he played in, though. Yes, it made it more difficult to score and makes all of Jordan's scoring feats that much more impressive. But let's not pretend the Glove didn't manhandle dudes with his hands as well. He was probably the most physical defensive PG of all-time, so it goes both ways. In the 1996 Finals, Ron Harper and Scottie Pippen mangled Payton the entire time. He would average 14 foul shots a game under the current rules. But so would his opponent...so it's a bit of a wash.
Adam Blade
WWKC
Kidd does/did have a good post game.
Tragicomedy
Member
p.s. Little known fact for you young folks out there: the Sonics drafted Scottie Pippen #5 in the 1987 draft, only to immediately flip him to the Bulls for the #8 pick, Olden Polynice.
Contrary to his name, there was nothing nice about Olden's game. After Pippen went on to become a complete stud in the league, I would sometimes imagine what the Sonics would've looked like with Kemp, the Glove, and Pippen all suiting up in green.
Contrary to his name, there was nothing nice about Olden's game. After Pippen went on to become a complete stud in the league, I would sometimes imagine what the Sonics would've looked like with Kemp, the Glove, and Pippen all suiting up in green.
Future PhaZe
Member
Wall sought out the Glove mid-season and is working with him this off-season. Smart choice. Hope he learns a thing or two.
More shit talking from Wall confirmed.
More shit talking from Wall confirmed.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Wouldn't have happened GP was the 2nd pick of the 90 draft and Kemp 17th in the 89.. I doubt they landed all of them... But a team with GP and Scottie is a dream team for me
obijkenobi
Member
God damn that would have been a good team. Pippen and Payton would have wings on lock down.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Well again, Payton was the 2nd pick of the 90 draft... Kemp and Pippen in 89 might have changed their record enough not to get the 2nd pick..
And the Spurs look like last year's Spurs...
Tragicomedy
Member
True, and I don't remember tank culture playing as big a part back then, either. That might be my rose-colored 90s glasses talking, but I don't recall teams purposefully entering the season with the goal of sucking.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Tanking is why the lottery was created..
Your team still would have been bad enough to get them even with Pippen. Early Pip was soft and Bulls fans hated him. Phil changed Jordan and then Phil and Jordan changed Pippen and Grant.
Red Blaster
Member
the fuck
teams tanked all the time, why do you think they switched to a lottery format
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
He was averaging 14 ppgs his 2nd year..
Future PhaZe
Member
Lakers are terrible to watch
Dwights stock is really plumetting right now. I think financially its in his best interest to leave. Being in LA means jack shit as does the extra year LA can provide if it means his future earning potential and endorsement potential declines due to poor team success.
The playoff success he could have with Houston with the chinese connection is pretty massive. That and what should be a top 4 team in the West with him there and healthy.
Only question would be what to do with Asik, but I think he's pretty tradable.
Tragicomedy
Member
To quote myself again:
I admitted that I didn't remember it happening, but that I was approaching it from a biased perspective.
Trailer for the Lenny Cooke documentary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ne61w4R20QE
I was in awe of this dude when I was a boy. Dude was the top guy. NBA scouts, and other guys like Lebron, Carmelo, Amare, etc. thought he was gonna be a star. He was dominating. Then Lebron put the work in while Lenny was feeling himself too much and destroyed Lenny at a basketball camp and he never recovered.
Where Lebron made his name.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ne61w4R20QE
I was in awe of this dude when I was a boy. Dude was the top guy. NBA scouts, and other guys like Lebron, Carmelo, Amare, etc. thought he was gonna be a star. He was dominating. Then Lebron put the work in while Lenny was feeling himself too much and destroyed Lenny at a basketball camp and he never recovered.
Where Lebron made his name.
