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2014 High-Res PC Screenshot Thread of the Last Hope for Image Quality
- Thread starter Stallion Free
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MrRoderick
Member
So I ran a test, and I think what's happening is your are using a Nearest Neighbor filter to downsample your shots in FastStone:
Nearest Neighbor:
Bicubic:
100% crop of original:
Nearest Neighbor seems to introduce serious aliasing that was not present in the first place. Mathematically I'm totally clear on why, but it makes sense considering it does no interpolation and limits the sampling range, which is sorta the definition of aliasing.
If you're concerned that using bicubic 'cleans up shots' and thus is disingenuous to what you were looking at while running the game, I personally think durante's GeDoSaTo (which can implement real-time bicubic), is good enough of a milestone to say that bicubic resizing is a pretty acceptable way to represent a gameplay image (even in dx11 games). There is also the lanczos options which a lot of folks like, and I'm pretty sure FastStone has.
But yeah, with your rig, you should be annihilating IQ!
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
Injustice: Gods Among Us // 4K GeDoSaTo / 16x CSAA / Max Settings
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
Injustice: Gods Among Us // 4K GeDoSaTo / 16x CSAA / Max Settings
VisceralBowl
Member
Bicubic can keep images pretty sharp. Granted I focused the hell out of that shot, but still. Almost every shot I have posted in this thread since February has been using Bicubic.
Lanczos gives me banding on my shots though, so I don't recommend that.
Lanczos gives me banding on my shots though, so I don't recommend that.
Oh wow this game still pisses on pretty much everything on PC. Can't wait for a new series of Nvidia GPUs so I can upgrade from that 670 2gb...
VisceralBowl
Member
VisceralBowl
Member
Video card is overheating.
maneil99
Member
Injustice: Gods Among Us // 4K GeDoSaTo / 16x CSAA / Max Settings
Not sure if my connection but those look really blurry/low res
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
They are interlaced PNGs. Your connection is slow.
Alright, so i just tried something and it doesn't make any sense to me, but maybe some of you might be able to figure this out?
Top pic is of Crysis 3 taken at 3840x2160 and MSAA8x... bottom one is just resized to 2560x1440 with FastStone and JPEG quality was set at 10 along with bicubic filter.
Why in the world is 4k pic sharper than the resized one???
Save both pic's and compare them, and you will see that the 4k pic is much sharper and less blurry!
I really don't understand, why graphic designers needs put into game graphic effects, that are actually lack or feature of technology. I mean strong lens of flares, dirt lens, chromatic aberration, DoF, film grain... Especially in FPS games.
"My eyeballs are not fu**ing camera!"
Overusing of this effects hurt my eyes actually=(
"My eyeballs are not fu**ing camera!"
Overusing of this effects hurt my eyes actually=(
Use bilinear, bicubic or lanczos resize method. Not supersampling.
Alright, so i just tried something and it doesn't make any sense to me, but maybe some of you might be able to figure this out?
Top pic is of Crysis 3 taken at 3840x2160 and MSAA8x... bottom one is just resized to 2560x1440 with FastStone and JPEG quality was set at 10 along with bicubic filter.
Why in the world is 4k pic sharper than the resized one???
Save both pic's and compare them, and you will see that the 4k pic is much sharper and less blurry!
A raw picture is basically as sharp as an image can possibly get. The downside of that raw sharpness is that there is a lot of aliasing.
That's the goal of using AA with downsampling, the AA usally cleans up the edges on the image but as a result of that, the end image (at least on aliased edges) ends up a bit blurrier. The reason to downsample is that the result of that softening of the image isn't as apparent, because smaller details are being softened up and the issues sort of disappear is its downsized.
A resized image has inherently less detail and information than a raw, non resized one so by nature it will always be less sharp (without artificial sharpening to try and fake it).
What you're seeing isn't weird at all. It's taking visual data and trying to fit it into less space. Some detail will always be lost in that act.
VisceralBowl
Member
VisceralBowl
Member
I think they can add to the game when used properly. They don't really hurt my eyes either. Depth of field isn't really a downside of technology either. It is extremely useful when you want to make a subject obvious or get rid of extra information. In a way it also replicates how our eyes function. You don't notice it because you always focus your eyes on what you are looking at (in the case of a monitor you're looking at a flat surface so it does not work). Getting dynamic depth of field that works that way in a game would require eye tracking technology and may not be very cheap (both performance and hardware wise).
This really depends on the game. In a game like Crysis or Battlefield your character has a visor or eye protection of some sort so it makes sense.
Of course, but it works in film or photography. Not in rendered space that trying to be realistic as today can be. I see a big paradox in that.
They're video games.
Video games don't have to all perfectly simulate real life and as a result, can take some creative license with what they choose to, and choose not to include based on tastes rather than only real world legitimacy.
Look at this garbage pile of a game.
Give me realism or give me death!!!
VisceralBowl
Member
_~-*-~_ Emulated *-~_~-* PS2 game!
crazyturtle
Member
no idea. All the settings are labeled by high, very high, extreme and ultra. I'm using extreme
Confidence Man
Member
The idea is that you are still looking through a camera even if it's first person.
I think the idea is that "We, the designers, like the way this looks".
MrRoderick
Member
The eye employs plenty of Depth of Field as well.
But I agree with both Alo and Sawyer, its what they're trying to emulate in a representation. Its a little bit ineffective to complain about eyeball replication when your are looking across a desk at a flat screen.
Oculus rift on the other hand, is different. I've been curious as to how the eye handles focus in it. Is the steroscopy so nuanced that a natural DoF happens?
But I agree with both Alo and Sawyer, its what they're trying to emulate in a representation. Its a little bit ineffective to complain about eyeball replication when your are looking across a desk at a flat screen.
Oculus rift on the other hand, is different. I've been curious as to how the eye handles focus in it. Is the steroscopy so nuanced that a natural DoF happens?
I've got a 3D monitor and if you have things set up well then yeah, you do get that natural "distance out of focus" effect.
BONKERS
Member
Chromatic Aberration is the big one that really pisses me off.
Mostly because real world high quality lenses dont' suffer the copious and stupid amounts that game devs slap all over their games. And when they do, there is significant effort to reduce and remove such benign amounts of fringing.
Daylight pissed me off. You are viewing through the eyes of a HUMAN, our eyesight doesn't look like that.
The only games it looks even remotely ok in are the ones where it makes sense,
(IE: Security cameras in Watch Dogs, when a character is wearing some kind of lens or visor that refracts light. Or through glass pane doors and windows where light refracts)
Things like Lens flares and Depth of Field i'm completely ok with because these exist entirely in our own vision.
I've gotten to the point IRL where I can selectively focus my eyes where I want them and then keep that area in focus and look at the out of focus areas. It's quite sublime!
It's true that we are just staring at a screen and everything else is already out of focus. But I don't mind the effect much at all TBH.
I can't wait to see what it feels like with OR though!
Yup! Looks good doesn't it for it's age?
He's probably using the built in Temporal AA that C2 shipped with. Which used temporal reprojection supersampling for distant objects and FXAA for nearby objects.
Add on the film grain and the dof and motion blur and that probably contributes to what you are seeing. I quite liked the effect for the time (Considering how much aliasing there is in C2 without any AA of any kind. In the SMAA T2x demo video, it didn't even look good with Crysis 2. Because there was just that much! >_> )
Second one had me cracking up!
Hey guys, is NFS:Rivals still wonked up on PC? No patch to fix the frame pacing issues like they did on consoles?
:|
N1ghtW4lk3R
Member
Yes, its still wonked. You can force 60fps adding -GameTime.MaxSimFps 60 -GameTime.ForceSimRate 60 to exe shortcut, its the only solution for play this game properly.
BONKERS
Member
(reflections! still look sooo good)
Yeah, hopefully that'd at least help mitigate the frame pacing issues.
I wish they'd do that for Dead Island 1, that game has ridiculous frame pacing issues that cause stutter even if you are dead locked to 30FPS with or without vsync.
N1ghtW4lk3R
Member
Nonono. You do not get actual DoF even when having a 3D monitor or when using the Oculus Rift whatsoever.
DoF is a product of your eye's 'lens' focusing on a specific distance, blurring what is behind and in front of the focal point. But since neither a 3D monitor nor the Oculus Rift actually have any sort of advanced technology that would simulate true depth, DoF will never occur in any normal/natural way.
I believe nVidia is experimenting with pretty advanced 3D tech where it would occur but we're talking tech that involves a grid of thousands of little lenses which can somehow be manipulated so that to our eyes there's actual depth variation depending on the scene.
Perfect VR or 3D is not as simple as feeding each eye a perfect hi-res image. Depth is lost when you do that. Remember that, just as with a camera, a human eye can 'sense' depth and adjust focus. Stereoscopy just does not simulate this depth at all, but it does a pretty good job at everything else so most of the time you won't be bothered by the lack of real depth at all.
...man the worst thing is when people in threads say DoF effects in games are stupid cause the eye creates DoF naturally. Not saying you guys did but I see it mentioned sometimes. It's right up there with "our eyes can't see more than xxfps anyway".
Have you used 3D vision? The effect of "I'm focusing on this thing in the foreground and the thing in the background is out of focus" and the effect of "I'm focusing on this thing in the background and the thing in the foreground is out of focus" absolutely happens.
When you're using 3D vision, both of your eyes are being fed an entirely different image, much the same way your eyes actually would see things.
I don't know if this is something you know how to do, but I'm going to post a 3D image taken from Bit.Trip.Runner 2. This isn't a perfect representation of how the game looks with glasses, but if you do it correctly you can actually see what I'm talking about without needing a 3D monitor. The depth is cranked up to maximum for this to really exaggerate the effect and make it obvious that it is present.
Edit: Once the page fully loads, you can click either of the below images to expand them to full size.
Now, cross your eyes so that both of the images overlap. You don't need to cross your eyes too much, just enough that one is over the other. If you know how to do magic eye posters, it's the same concept.
Here's actually a little tutorial and practice image I made a while back that should be an easier example to test on. It's sort of a "riding your bike" kind of skill. Once you learn how to do it, you can basically do it always.
Once you're able to lock it so that the images are overlapped, you'll see that you can actually view the image in full 3D, there's depth and everything. The closer you are to the screen, of course the more your eyes need to be crossed. Once you have it locked, you can move away from the screen some to make it easier on your eyes and make it less strenuous to focus on things.
Once you're able to do that, try focusing on the gold bricks. If you do, you'll notice that the house in the background is now out of focus, as well as the mountains. But, there's no fake DoF effect being applied here, so do the same for the house. Now the gold bricks look out of focus.
This is exactly the effect you're talking about, and it's absolutely capable of doing it. There's no tech needed with thousands of little lenses in a grid, it's already achievable with a 120hz monitor and glasses synced to filter at 60hz per eye alternating.
The effect is better with the glasses because theres no eye crossing involved, it fills the whole screen, and of course everything is moving at 60fps which makes it more realistic and lifelike, but the fact of the matter is that with 3D vision you absolutely get that depth of field effect.
If you just think of it practically, it of course makes sense. Imagine using two cameras, one directly in front of your left eye, and one directly in front of your right eye. Those two images would be what your eye is currently seeing. Show both of those images to your eye, and they can interpret the 3D space from it. That's exactly what 3D vision is doing.
N1ghtW4lk3R
Member
My two cents: I've found that Lanczos produces some very nice results closer to the original without as much blur as bicubic. You are correct about the banding though and the source image needs to be taken into account when choosing the correct DS filter. I use Faststone and depending on the scene I start with Lanczos2 (which is the sharpest), check for any banding, and then try Lanczos3, check for banding, and eventually try Bicubic. Nine times out of ten I stick with the Lanczos2 image.
Although, I've been using the Bicubic filter in GeDoSaTo with Syndicate and have been suitably impressed with the results.
Really enjoying your C3 shots, this one especially.
Great shots! Is the city one all in-engine or is there a shader effect added?
And I thought this game was all chrome and two fisted shotguns. Creepy images!
You and me both. You enter the street and this guy is bopping to the techno with his face pressed up against the glass watching the Holodancers. The original shot was freakier as there was this warping effect that looked to be applied in place of the ambient occlusion that made his eyes look like bottomless pits. The effect seemed to disappear when I changed the resolution though. The image below is one screenshot I took before it crashed.
I used to be able to see those magic eye images but trying to overlap those images above was painful. I think I now need to lie down!
the reminder about bicubic sharpening downscaling was pretty big. i totally forgot about that and was using bicubic automatic which seems to have not been choosing the sharpening option for some reason
also i totally want to try and fool folks into thinking this is REmake. idk why but i loooove taking themed fallout shots that just look like other games entirely
also i totally want to try and fool folks into thinking this is REmake. idk why but i loooove taking themed fallout shots that just look like other games entirely
A quick recommendation, the further back you are, the less you need to cross your eyes.
Here's a little example I made a while back showing when sitting average distance away from screen, how much my eyes need to cross in order to see an image in 3D.
My big problem when I was first learning was that I crossed my eyes WAY too much. From a normal sitting distance, your eyes barely need to be crossed at all.
Also, as noted in the example image, it's best to make sure your eyes are centered, and that the full image is in frame. If you're not centered, then one eye ends up needing to cross more than the other which can feel REALLY awkward to hold and really stresses the eye out. Here is what it looks like if you're off center (I was really off center for this example)
As you can probably imagine, it feels pretty uncomfortable and it's really difficult to hold the 3D view.
Phreakuency
Banned
Keep Watch Dogs in that wireframe, black and white mode. Looks much better that way.
Interesting, I can totally see what you are going for here.the reminder about bicubic sharpening downscaling was pretty big. i totally forgot about that and was using bicubic automatic which seems to have not been choosing the sharpening option for some reason
also i totally want to try and fool folks into thinking this is REmake. idk why but i loooove taking themed fallout shots that just look like other games entirely
Thanks for this, I was definitely too close to screen and crossing my eyes too much. Still can't quite get it though...practice I guess.
Stallion Free
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Injustice: Gods Among Us // 4K GeDoSaTo / 16x CSAA / Max Settings
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