johnny_park
Member
Shaq went to LA purely for financial reasons. Kobe wasn't a superstar when Shaq went there, he was just a rookie.
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2014 NBA Finals |OT| Some dude guarantees they will win it all.
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Ahh I see, its okay to demand trades and exercise free agency if you are a rookie?
But wait, Shaq was a star when he went to LA. And Kobe was hot shit coming right out of highschool too. This flimsy ass logic doesn't hold up. Holes everywhere.
Syphon Filter
Member
wtf shouldn't you be wizard fan?
johnny_park
Member
What the fuck did Kobe do his first two years? Jack shit! You know who else was hot shit coming out of high school? Kwame Brown.
I should say jack shit. He was serviceable.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
So you're saying that shaq did it all by himself when he left orlando for LA to selfishly make more money and win rings or he had help? I can't figure out which of my arguments you're supporting.
SoFla born and raised. LeBron is the god of basketball.
johnny_park
Member
I don't what your argument is. Shaq didn't join a bunch of superstars when he went to LA. They built the team around him and Kobe grew into a superstar. Totally different from what Lebron did.
BadAss2961
Member
Kobe was just a prospect coming out of high school, albeit a good one. He was selected 13th overall (and traded), which proves that he wasn't expected to be great or anything.
Shaq never went there to play with Kobe Bryant. LA was the draw.
bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
LeBatard rant on now!
Byakuya769
Member
All roads lead to "fuck LeBron" when dealing with these weird sorts of arguments.
But a world where LeBron stays in Cleveland, or goes to some struggle bound team after 7 years is a world full of "lol no ring for the king!", so why even bother debating this stuff.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
He was selected 13th because he told everyone he was only going to play for the lakers, hence he dropped until someone was interested in whatever the lakers would offer for him.
That's why he dropped, not because people didn't think highly of him but because he was wasting everyone's time being selfish.
yup. it was hard enough to try and convince players to play in cleveland for goodness sake. It's even harder when their management is also incompetent as all hell.
Thank you... I have no idea why someone would try to pretend Kobe wasn't hot shit right out of highschool. The media was going CRAZY over that dude, and he was absolutely being pinned as the next great thing. Kobes hype right into the draft was surpassed only by Lebrons.
Pretty sure he was like the youngest in his position to be drafted and it didn't take long for him to become a starter either.
Byakuya769 said:
Preeeeach
BadAss2961
Member
I don't remember this. Where can I read about it?
It doesn't even make sense. No rookie has THAT much power. They can avoid a couple teams by saying they don't want to play there, but certainly not the entire league. If this were the case, the Lakers could've just waited to draft him instead of doing a trade.
There's no way 12 teams would pass on a can't-miss.
Hypemaster
Member
Syphon Filter
Member
Ok i'll give you that if you really are telling the truth. Thought you were a fraud fan like a lot of people lol.
BadAss2961
Member
You're not off the hook. He was a good young prospect, but not the next best thing. The next best thing doesn't go 13th overall, and Shaq never went there to play with Kobe Bryant.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
http://www.lakersnation.com/fact-vs...tory-of-how-kobe-became-a-laker/2014/03/06/3/
Dude threaten to play in freaking italy if him and his agent didn't get him to the lakers.
anywho, the point was that players are a selfish lot and that applies almost universally. What lebron did wasn't shitty so much as HOW he did it. The guy wanted to make some money, he wanted to get some rings, and he wanted to do it with his bros. Kinda hard to hate on that.
That travesty of the Decision is really the thing that i can't defend and he doesn't defend it anymore, either. It was a stupid, immature, and shitty way of going about things.
Yet, we got Dan Gilbert's comic sans letter out of it so there's always a silver lining.
Halcyon
Member
Kobe was just as hyped as Lebron was out of high school.
He went 13th because of the reasons above, and there wasn't any precedent for a high school kid to get the 1st pick. It wasn't until Kwame that a high school player got drafted 1st. I believe this is mostly because people saw how well it worked with Kobe.
theignoramus
Member
Who gives a shit if Miamis players colluded. The way it was done was plenty obnoxious and deserved all the scorn it got, but whatever, at the end of the day you need star laden teams to win. I also dont care about the "but they did it in their primes" argument either, what a flimsy, arbitrary talking point. So KG, Ray and Pierce teaming up in Boston isnt as "bad" because they spent over half their careers playing for mediocre non-contenders? At what point is it okay for a star to say "enough" and join a stack team? 8 years into his career? 10? Fuck that.
Its okay to not like Miami, but at least have a good reason, like DWade being a bitch, Battier being a smug prick, and Chalmers being a tool. The "collusion" argument? Whatever. I hope Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Love end up on stack teams. Im tired of seeing those guys play for mediocre teams and organizations with no hope of winning anything.
Its okay to not like Miami, but at least have a good reason, like DWade being a bitch, Battier being a smug prick, and Chalmers being a tool. The "collusion" argument? Whatever. I hope Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Love end up on stack teams. Im tired of seeing those guys play for mediocre teams and organizations with no hope of winning anything.
Looooooooooooool you don't actually believe that do you?
Vestal
Junior Member
Yet back to back coaching fuckups probably cost them game 6 last year.
Look pop is awesome and an all time great, but he is not infallible. He is prone to making mistakes just like any other coach. Spo is no slouch either.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
If kobe would've come out at a time where the internet was a real thing and not just a way to AOL instant message your friends and download Nirvana lyrics then it probably would've been at Lebron's level of hype easily.
I remember all of this shit because that was the only draft I actually watched, hah.
Halcyon
Member
Okay so ESPN didn't have his high school games on, but it's not like he wasn't a news story. I am from Erie, and Cathedral Prep played Lower Marion for the State Finals so maybe it was a little bit more of a local hype than outside of PA. But he was the second coming of Jordan.
In a world where Ricky Rubio was drafted 5th despite hating the Wolves and not playing in the NBA for 3 more years, I think we can all believe that Kobe slipped to 13th for the reasons listed above. All this despite a level of high school hype equal to what Lebron had coming out. Yup no doubt.
BadAss2961
Member
So we have Charlotte, who picked at 13, and the Nets, who were picking at 8. That's two teams. What happened to all the other teams that passed on this player who was supposedly godlike? I know what happened, he wasn't a cant-miss. He was a popular prospect with some media hype, and went to the prom with Brandy, but he wasn't expected to be the closest thing to Michael Jordan. If he was, he would've went much earlier in the draft no matter what he said.
Nevermind the fact that this article is just from a Lakers season ticket holder writing for a fansite. I'll just assume it's all true.
Not even close dude. LeBron was "the chosen one", doing commercials as basketball Jesus before ever setting foot in the NBA.
MetalFearSolid
Banned
Shane Battier is going to retire after this season.
Report: Shane Battier to Become College Basketball Analyst for ESPN
According to the report, "It's unclear yet if ESPN will use Battier, 35, as a game analyst, in the studio, or on the set of College Gameday, which is being revamped."
Report: Shane Battier to Become College Basketball Analyst for ESPN
According to the report, "It's unclear yet if ESPN will use Battier, 35, as a game analyst, in the studio, or on the set of College Gameday, which is being revamped."
Vestal
Junior Member
People forget Barkley forced a trade out of philly cause his front office sucked balls.
Syphon Filter
Member
Shane Battier is going to retire after this season.
Report: Shane Battier to Become College Basketball Analyst for ESPN
According to the report, "It's unclear yet if ESPN will use Battier, 35, as a game analyst, in the studio, or on the set of College Gameday, which is being revamped."
Why not just stay,miami might win some more titles.
There is no hook breh, read the thread. The league recognizes James and his continued accomplishments, the entirety of the media recognizes James and his accomplishments, your favorite NBA players, teams and coaches recognize James and his accomplishments and real fans of the sport recognize James and his continued accomplishments.
The only place this ridiculous narrative where James legacy won't drape the history books is in the heads of haters.
The next best thing went 13th for a reason. Go read up on the history behind Kobe coming out of HS since you clearly weren't paying attention when it happened. Or just read the thread where its been detailed.
Kobe wasn't as hyped as James out of highschool, but he is a clear #2 just behind James. By the time James was coming the internet was massive and the train was just going craaaaazy. Honestly I think thats what birthed a lot of the people who today still try and take away from him; they hoped he wouldn't live up to it.
BadAss2961 said:
Yeah, I knew it. A new age BBall fan who wasn't there and following the league when it happened. Thats the only reason you question it. No one who followed the league at the time would be this clueless.
People who want to watch competitive, hard-won victories instead of "LOL let's break basketball just because we can."
It's not at all strange that nobody outside of Miami's ephemeral so-called fanbase is going to be very excited about a team doing what it was supposed to do.
People who want competitive hard won victories LOVED last years 7 game finals. And they are eager for this upcoming rematch of it.
Only the Heat Haters disliked it. Don that jacket my man.
JesseEwiak
Member
Again, why is a superteam being created out of horrible slanted trades and draft picks (see the 80's Celtic's and Laker's in both cases) OK, but players choosing where they want to play so horrible?
Should the Laker's given up their #1 pick they had despite being in the playoffs the previous year not to create a superteam? Should Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen been banned from going to Boston via trades?
The NBA has an entire history of great players doing whatever they can to end up on the same team - Wilt didn't end up in LA by a fluke.
BadAss2961
Member
It's not like he left to go play with some other man's team/city though that already won a championship. KJ was nice and all (real nice), but it wasn't Johnson County. Wherever Chuck was during his prime, he wanted to be the man, not the co-star. He's said it before himself.
You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not a sage or anything, but i've been following the NBA since the early 90's -- from before MJ won his first championship. "Assuming it's all true" was just me spotting him his argument.
Everything i've said is based on facts and logic. Logic such as "the next best thing" would've never gone 13th overall. I was there, I was old enough to process the Kobe situation. He was not or even close to being #2 behind LeBron in terms of draft hype. Try again.
None of this is a knock on Kobe. It's just that he wasn't expected to be the greatest thing ever.
I think those are problematic as well, but there's still a functional difference between trading for a star player and three superstars deciding to collude to form a superteam on a team that's dumped all of its contracts. In theory, trading for a superstar requires a skilled GM who can strike a good bargain. Bad GMs do stupid things like trade the entirety of their talent for
But really there should be a rule that teams only get one max contract slot each.
Future Foundation
Member
The Amare for Daniel Gibson rumor was just some made up thing, right? Or was there some truth to that?
johnny_park
Member
I'm pretty sure KG's hype was bigger than Kobe's. At least from what I remember and I've been following since 89.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
I hope you like this series because it's gonna be all Spurs all the time baby.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Memba that time when all the pacers needed was home court and they could just walk into the finals and smash like Hibbert's fiance? Lol, good times.
But the spurs have everything going for them.
But the spurs have everything going for them.
BadAss2961
Member
He was. At the very least he was a better prospect than Kobe. He's the one that started the whole straight outta high school thing in the modern NBA, and was taken 5th.
Dude i'm arguing with is saying "but the internet!" as if hype didn't exist before it. lol
LMAO, the mental gymnastics in this thread. So because LeBron is a superstar, he is obligated to remain on a shitty team, with shitty management, shitty coach and nonexistent supporting cast. Fuck him, fuck his career, he should've stayed with shitty Cavaliers to appease you crybabies.
BadAss2961
Member
Team wasn't great, but it wasn't shitty either. They were good enough to be regular season champs AND be the favorites to win it all at their peak, but couldn't get over the hump.
Many legends faced the same hurdles before winning their championship. Did they run? No.
The Celtics weren't getting any younger, and LeBron was either one player or maybe even just a clutch bone in his body away from winning it had he stayed in Cleveland -- which would've meant so much more than any championship in Miami.
Eli Manning said he wouldn't play for SD.
And where was this player coming from to play with Lebron? You are talking about the Cavs here. One of the worst management in recent sports history. How have they been since him?
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