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[Battersea Power Station]

From ESPN:

A FINALS WITHOUT KOBE, WADE OR DUNCAN
The NBA Finals will be without Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade or Tim Duncan for the first time since 1998. That '98 championship featured Michael Jordan and the Bulls beating the Jazz.

The stupidest thing about that "stat," and there are a few, is that each of those players has been with the same team. So it would be just as meaningful (more so, really) to say it's the first finals without the Lakers, Heat, or Spurs since '98.

 

[Forceatowulf]

From ESPN:

A FINALS WITHOUT KOBE, WADE OR DUNCAN
The NBA Finals will be without Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade or Tim Duncan for the first time since 1998. That '98 championship featured Michael Jordan and the Bulls beating the Jazz.

I always have to remind myself that Kobe and Duncan have a decades worth of rings between them.

Could have been 13 chips between them if they never lost in the finals. Damn.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Only if the Cavs win.

So I hope they do. The meltdown would be the stuff of legend.

I expect serious drama if the Cavs lose. So many people in Cleveland seem to be at the breaking point if their behavior is any indication.

 

[Liquidsnake]

You see, this is exactly why people mock Lebron. The apology tour always starts even before the Finals and people mention how he was an underdog and how impressive it was for him to take that 2007 team to the finals (with absolutely no mention of the even more impressive choke job Detroit did that year). It's like it's okay for him to lose, because his support cast is never good enough. I mean, let's forget that he had WADE, BOSH AND MOTHERFUCKING RAY ALLEN in his last title, he does it alone!

This is fucking bullshit and the media runs with it as well, it's okay if he loses because [insert random excuse about his legacy]. And I don't get that you can talk about the other team in the Finals being better and praising his herculean effort to bring his teams to the final while ignoring what a fucking joke the East has been in the last few years. It's baffling.

Lebron is the greatest player in his generation, don't get me wrong. But you would never hear or read this shit about Kobe, let alone MJ.

Can not disagree. Lebron gets more passes and slack than anyone I have ever seen.

I don't even think he is the "best on the planet" Hes an underachiever, who has a poor finals record, (The east is and has been a joke his entire career) And now he is aging, and will have a decline here pretty soon.

 

[Ashhong]

That's not what I meant. You wouldn't hear fans or writers saying how it would be ok if he lost, you wouldn't hear excuses before the games even began, or talks about how this Finals do not define his legacy. When it comes to Lebron, people have been making excuses for his losses and overpraising his victories ever since he flat out quit on his team against the Magic and the Celtics in consecutive years. That's why people mock him, not because they are "haterz".

Lebron is the Peyton Manning of the NBA.

I feel like people feel the need to defend him like that because he is attacked so much.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Only a guy like Lebron could have people in this thread saying he will be "immortalized" for having a 3-3 finals record if he miraculously wins this series. That's how inflated his messiah status has become.

 

[Liquidsnake]

Only a guy like Lebron could have people in this thread saying he will be "immortalized" for having a 3-3 finals record if he miraculously wins this series. That's how inflated his messiah status has become.

I don't think history will be kind to him if he loses again. Right now, it is what it is; but 15 years from now, once the rose color glasses come off, I think the record will speak for itself, and books about how poor the decade has been in the east will also be brought to light.

 

[zychi]

Only a guy like Lebron could have people in this thread saying he will be "immortalized" for having a 3-3 finals record if he miraculously wins this series. That's how inflated his messiah status has become.

It's just what the media has built up. Trying to create a God for this generation of basketball, when they already have one in Tim Duncan..

My favorite thing about this, is apparently D Wade having more titles then Lebron is completely forgotten. Only, Wade never left his team or through a city under a bus.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

It's just what the media has built up. Trying to create a God for this generation of basketball, when they already have one in Tim Duncan..

My favorite thing about this, is apparently D Wade having more titles then Lebron is completely forgotten. Only, Wade never left his team or through a city under a bus.

I'm still bitter wade got hurt in 2005 against the Pistons. We could've had a repeat back then, wade was absolutely a fucking monster and shaq was still relatively healthy and dominant. It also robbed us of a Shaq vs Kobe finals which would've been much more entertaining than what we got

 

[Dion Blaster]

Lebron is so much better than Peyton Manning it's not even close. Going to six finals is impressive in itself.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Only a guy like Lebron could have people in this thread saying he will be "immortalized" for having a 3-3 finals record if he miraculously wins this series. That's how inflated his messiah status has become.

He will be immortalized for his exploits pre-Finals:

2× NBA Champion (2012–2013)
2× NBA Finals MVP (2012–2013)
4× NBA Most Valuable Player (2009–2010, 2012–2013)
11× NBA All-Star (2005–2015)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008)
9× All-NBA First Team (2006, 2008–2015)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2005, 2007)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2013)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2004)
NBA scoring champion (2008)
Cleveland Cavaliers all-time leading scorer
AP Athlete of the Year (2013)
USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year (2012)
Sporting News Athlete of the Year (2012)
Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year (2012)
Naismith Prep Player of the Year (2003)
McDonald's All-American Game MVP (2003)
3× Ohio Mr. Basketball (2001–2003)

I get you're rah-rah Warriors, but don't twist history here. The man is a great player and 99% pecent of you will be telling your kids about how good Lebron was and at such a young age.

 

[LQX]

I wonder if some of you actually watch basketball and sees how far LeBron carries a team vs players like Tim Duncan that although great have had a lot more competent help to win his championships. Even with all the talk of "Miami Big Three" it was damn apparent LeBron was carrying the team.

 

[zychi]

He will be immortalized for his exploits pre-Finals:



I get you're rah-rah Warriors, but don't twist history here. The man is a great player and 99% pecent of you will be telling your kids about how good Lebron was and at such a young age.

I'll be telling my kids about the crabwalk, the whining, the running full court to complain to a ref. The ripping off his jersey in his last game at Cleveland. The fake injuries, the setup excuses he built before even playing a game.

The amount of "I, my team" he says at press conferences compared to an NHL player or Tim Duncan.

The best will be showing the Decision, how Cle hated him, then accepted him back before he even announced his second decision, which included more excuses in SI.

I wonder if some of you actually watch basketball and sees how far LeBron carries a team vs players like Tim Duncan that although great have had a lot more competent help to win his championships. Even with all the talk of "Miami Big Three" it was damn apparent LeBron was carrying the team.

"Carrying the team" is what Anthony Davis did this year.

Lebron padding his stats and disappearing in 4th quarters in the playoffs was not carrying the team.

 

[Forceatowulf]

Not only does Wade have more rings than LeBron, he also has a winning record in the finals....

Wade is the better Champion. But then all the recent greats are better Champs than Lebron, and they all have winning records to boot. Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, and Wade. Lebron is a better winner than Dirk. He has that... *shrugs*

Going to six finals is impressive in itself.

"Impressive"? Not when you play in the East it's not... more like "Acceptable".

 

[Amentallica]

Only if the Cavs win.

So I hope they do. The meltdown would be the stuff of legend.


Of course you are. You're so predictable and transparent, you could be mistaken for the sun rising in the morning.

...predictable in that he really thinks the Warriors are going to best the Cavaliers? I don't understand the problem.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

to his credit, going to 6 finals is really really hard. and winning them is tough, too. think of all of the legendary players from the 90s that went ringless: Stockton, Malone, Barkley, Miller, Ewing, etc. And if Jordan didn't leave the game for a couple of years that list couldve included Olajuwon and Drexler, too. Especially when you consider that he's been pratically injury free almost the entirety of his whole career, it's remarkable that he's been able to get to the finals that often

That lebron will probably end up with more finals losses than wins is more likely due to having crappy and/or injured teammates in many of his finals appearances. the only finals I hold against him was 2010, where Wade clearly carried him and he was basically nonexistent in the fourth quarters of that series. As much as i don't care for him ever winning another one, I can acknowledge that he's a legit great and that his finals record isn't indicative of the quality of his play.

 

[BadAss2961]

You see, this is exactly why people mock Lebron. The apology tour always starts even before the Finals and people mention how he was an underdog and how impressive it was for him to take that 2007 team to the finals (with absolutely no mention of the even more impressive choke job Detroit did that year). It's like it's okay for him to lose, because his support cast is never good enough. I mean, let's forget that he had WADE, BOSH AND MOTHERFUCKING RAY ALLEN in his last title, he does it alone!

This is fucking bullshit and the media runs with it as well, it's okay if he loses because [insert random excuse about his legacy]. And I don't get that you can talk about the other team in the Finals being better and praising his herculean effort to bring his teams to the final while ignoring what a fucking joke the East has been in the last few years. It's baffling.

Lebron is the greatest player in his generation, don't get me wrong. But you would never hear or read this shit about Kobe, let alone MJ.

Props

 

[DoktorEvil]

I'll be telling my kids about the crabwalk, the whining, the running full court to complain to a ref. The ripping off his jersey in his last game at Cleveland. The fake injuries, the setup excuses he built before even playing a game.

The amount of "I, my team" he says at press conferences compared to an NHL player or Tim Duncan.

The best will be showing the Decision, how Cle hated him, then accepted him back before he even announced his second decision, which included more excuses in SI.

"Carrying the team" is what Anthony Davis did this year.

Lebron padding his stats and disappearing in 4th quarters in the playoffs was not carrying the team.

You left out all of the stuff that allowed him to redeem himself and gain favor with fans again. How convenient.

Mind you, I could give less of a shit about CLE since they're not the Knicks, but twisting his accolades and legacy into something that isn't there is dishonest.

Also this:

The amount of "I, my team" he says at press conferences compared to an NHL player or Tim Duncan.

is really fucking petty.

 

[Dynasty8]

http://youtu.be/VA7BPo3W2SY

 

[Xplatformer]

I wonder if some of you actually watch basketball and sees how far LeBron carries a team vs players like Tim Duncan that although great have had a lot more competent help to win his championships. Even with all the talk of "Miami Big Three" it was damn apparent LeBron was carrying the team.

You're undervaluing Chris Bosh, who is a top 10 player in the league when he's healthy.

 

[Trey]

Only a guy like Lebron could have people in this thread saying he will be "immortalized" for having a 3-3 finals record if he miraculously wins this series. That's how inflated his messiah status has become.

LeBron is top 8 all time for me, so I'd say he's immortalized already.

I think the Warriors take this series, but it won't take away from LeBron's great career or his achievements.

 

[BadAss2961]

Lebron is the Peyton Manning of the NBA.

Gotta disagree here though. Peyton doesn't get the excuses LeBron does. He's always getting roasted for being a choker, and his detractors like to call him the greatest regular season player.

Plus he has Brady to deal with, who gets all the credit, even though Peyton is really a far better QB than him.

 

[Forceatowulf]

to his credit, going to 6 finals is really really hard. and winning them is tough, too.

Going to 6 finals when you're the best player in a garbage conference is not hard. It's totally manageable. Look at all the years when the East had decent teams that were actual competition for him, and not just eastern Conference fodder, he got licked. And he got licked with HCA on 60+ win teams some of those years too...

And winning finals is real tough, no doubt, especially when you have to actually go up against real competition that plays in a legit conference all year and throughout the playoffs. It's damn tough to win under those circumstances.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

I always root against Lebron, but at least I can admit its because I'm a Bulls fan and don't want anyone considered as good as MJ.

Spoiler

And because LBJ has knocked my team out of the playoffs 4 times

 

[zychi]

You left out all of the stuff that allowed him to redeem himself and gain favor with fans again. How convenient.

Mind you, I could give less of a shit about CLE since they're not the Knicks, but twisting his accolades and legacy into something that isn't there is dishonest.

Also this:



is really fucking petty.

What did he do to redeem himself?
Throw Boys and Girls Club in front him as a shield when he burned Cle?
Talked over his teammate and answered a question in a press conference that wasn't directed to him?

Had Andrew Wiggins traded so he could get Kevin Love, who he doesn't include when talking about his teammates ever. Which he did when he was playing GM the first time in CLE.

Switched his jersey number from 23 to 6 "in honor of MJ" only because 23 is retired in Mia, then immediately went back to 23 when he went back to Cle?

Dancing on the sideline like a douche during a blowout, but throws a fit when Joakim Noah responds to his trash talk and gets T'd up?

Sounds like the same Lebron to me.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

Going to 6 finals when you're the best player in a garbage conference is not hard. It's totally manageable. Look at all the years when the East had decent teams that were actual competition for him, and not just eastern Conference fodder, he got licked. And he got licked with HCA on 60+ win teams some of those years too...

And winning finals is real tough, no doubt, especially when you have to actually go up against real competition that plays in a legit conference all year and throughout the playoffs. It's damn tough to win under those circumstances.

You can't argue that he had a +60 win team so he should've been better but then say that he doesn't play in a legit conference and that his competition is weak. Either those 60 win teams were great teams or those 60 win teams were basically being carried by him, like those teams where his best teammates were Larry Hughes and Mo Williams.

I repeat, his best teammates were Larry Hughes and Mo Williams.

Those +60 win cleveland teams would've been 45 win western conference teams, brah. He carried the fuck out of those teams. so you can't put that on him.

Now, if you wanna put the 2010 finals on him then, yeah, that was a total shitshow. They were up in that series and he simply disappeared. 2011 came easy, 2012 he played well but was a Ray Allen shot away from things turning on him, and last year he was the only one who showed up for that series.

again, i'm not a fanboy of his and as an MIA fan i appreciate his time here but i don't care to see him win again in cleveland but, cmon, you gotta be reasonable. No good person has won a single thing with Mo Williams and Larry Hughes as their teammates and no one ever will.

 

[BadAss2961]

Lebron is so much better than Peyton Manning it's not even close. Going to six finals is impressive in itself.

Nope. Peyton is probably the best QB i've ever seen. There's not many, but i've seen better, more dominant players than LeBron before.

Football is just hard, much tougher and less predictable than the NBA.

 

[Vyer]

lebron carried those (and this) Cavs teams without question. That really shouldn't even seriously be debatable.

 

[Siegcram]

Lawd, this perpetual bitchiness some in here are displaying towards a fucking basketball player is pathetic. Thank christ there's a game tonight.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

How loud is Oracle gonna be after Klay Thompson goes on one of his shooting streaks tonight? Should be crazy.

 

[Spinluck]

Lebron's losing his hair, he doesn't need those anymore.

Hasn't he accepted his baldness?

First step to becoming a great!

 

[Wizman23]

"Carrying the team" is what Anthony Davis did this year.

Lebron padding his stats and disappearing in 4th quarters in the playoffs was not carrying the team.

So taking a lottery team to the Finals in 1 year is not carrying a team, especially when the team he left and was in the Finals last year is now a lottery team? Holy Shit does this thread keep giving.

 

[Liquidsnake]

When you have to face Atlanta in the eastern conf finals, you know the east is jacked up.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Gotta disagree here though. Peyton doesn't get the excuses LeBron does. He's always getting roasted for being a choker, and his detractors like to call him the greatest regular season player.

Plus he has Brady to deal with, who gets all the credit, even though Peyton is really a far better QB than him.

Yeah, Peyton does not get the same pass from the media and the average fan that Lebron does. I do remember, especially being a Colts fan, how he was always lauded for bringing untalented teams further than they should and then there was always SOMETHING that prevented him from winning.

I think the media has gotten a little rougher on him in the last few years, but it could be my memory tricking me. But indeed, they were never as defensive with him as they are with Lebron.

 

[DoktorEvil]

So taking a lottery team to the Finals in 1 year is not carrying a team, especially when the team he left and was in the Finals last year is now a lottery team? Holy Shit does this thread keep giving.

Let's not stretch the definition of lottery here, Lebrons current team is so much better than Larry Hughes and Mo Williams and old Shaq and washed up Antawn Jamison.

Injuries not withstanding, they are apples and oranges.

Not to forget Mike Brown, one of the scrubbier coaches in the NBA.

 

[Ryde3]

Hasn't he accepted his baldness?

First step to becoming a great!

haha I agree! but nope, I think he actually got some hair plugs (or some other rich man hair surgery)

 

[Ronin Ray]

I have a question for my fellow basketball gaffers that I heard somewhere and I want to ask here.

With the eastern conference being as weak as it is

Is there any team in the east that you add Lebron 2 that doesn't make the finals??? If not, what teams and why

 

[Uno Venova]

So taking a lottery team to the Finals in 1 year is not carrying a team, especially when the team he left and was in the Finals last year is now a lottery team? Holy Shit does this thread keep giving.

I'm not sure if they would have been a lottery team after the trade including Mozgov, Smith and Shumpert, they might have stayed a lottery team before that trade.

 

[BadAss2961]

So taking a lottery team to the Finals in 1 year is not carrying a team, especially when the team he left and was in the Finals last year is now a lottery team? Holy Shit does this thread keep giving.

They completely revamped the roster. People act like LeBron carried Kyrie's supporting cast from last year to the finals.

 

[Dysun]

They completely revamped the roster. People act like LeBron carried Kyrie's supporting cast from last year to the finals.

He carried Knicks castoffs to the finals

 

[detectiveconan1]

I'm still bitter wade got hurt in 2005 against the Pistons. We could've had a repeat back then, wade was absolutely a fucking monster and shaq was still relatively healthy and dominant. It also robbed us of a Shaq vs Kobe finals which would've been much more entertaining than what we got

I think we would have played the Spurs that year, and I think the Finals ended up being a 7 games series between them and the Pistons. If we had gotten past Detroit, I think we would have won the championship that year. Hell you could argue that was one of the best teams in franchise history, probably only 2nd to the 2013 team.

Worst part about it is that we were blowing out the Pistons in Game 5 when he got hurt. I know it was kinda early to pull starters, but I still blame Stan Van Gundy for riding Wade too hard.

 

[Iadien]

Stephen A. Smith just picked the Cavs to win it all. Each time he picks Lebron to win, his team loses. lol

 

[Sunny K]

Ugh, people continue to overrate the Western Conference. Warriors lucked out by the Clippers choking and Spurs getting got early, not to mention OKC missing the playoffs because of injuries. Warriors had an even easier ride to the Finals than the Cavs, they have yet to beat a championship quality team in these playoffs. LeBron beat the Bulls and to a lesser extent the Hawks, both teams are way better than any of the teams the Warriors faced. Cavs would have wiped the floor the Pelicans, Rockets, and the Grizzlies. Keep up the false narrative of the Weak East and how easily the Cavs will be beat, it will only make all of your LeBron haters tears sweeter.

 

[BadAss2961]

He carried Knicks castoffs to the finals

Along with Kyrie Irving, and Mosgov who turned out.

I have a question for my fellow basketball gaffers that I heard somewhere and I want to ask here.

With the eastern conference being as weak as it is

Is there any team in the east that you add Lebron 2 that doesn't make the finals??? If not, what teams and why

Without adding any other players, LeBron doesn't make it to the finals with the following teams:

Magic
Sixers
Hornets
Celtics
Pacers (minus PG)
Pistons

Basically all the teams that missed the playoffs, except the Knicks.

 

[Fjordson]

Ugh, people continue to overrate the Western Conference. Warriors lucked out by the Clippers choking and Spurs getting got early, not to mention OKC missing the playoffs because of injuries. Warriors had an even easier ride to the Finals than the Cavs, they have yet to beat a championship quality team in these playoffs. LeBron beat the Bulls and to a lesser extent the Hawks, both teams are way better than any of the teams the Warriors faced. Cavs would have wiped the floor the Pelicans, Rockets, and the Grizzlies. Keep up the false narrative of the Weak East and how easily the Cavs will be beat, it will only make all of your LeBron hater tears sweeter.

I don't get why y'all always have to go overboard like this lol. Thinking the Cavs could win is perfectly reasonable. No need to toss in all the other over the top nonsense.

Spoiler

unless this is a troll post. if so, ya got me

 

[Spinluck]

Along with Kyrie Irving, and Mosgov who turned out. Without adding any other players, LeBron doesn't make it to the finals with the following teams:

Magic
Sixers
Hornets
Celtics
Pacers (minus PG)
Pistons

Basically all the teams that missed the playoffs, except the Knicks.

Heat?

 

[zychi]

So taking a lottery team to the Finals in 1 year is not carrying a team, especially when the team he left and was in the Finals last year is now a lottery team? Holy Shit does this thread keep giving.

You do realize that they made trades and basically revamped the roster outside of Irving, Della and Tristian since he joined the team, right?

You can't possibly expect anyone to be like, "uh huh this is a lottery team still!'

Wheres Bennett, Felix, Hawes, Jarrett Jack, CJ Miles, Henry Sims, Dion Waiters, Luol?

It's an entirely different team now.

 

[Sunny K]

I don't get why y'all always have to go overboard like this lol. Thinking the Cavs could win is perfectly reasonable. No need to toss in all the other over the top nonsense.

Spoiler

unless this is a troll post. if so, ya got me

There is absolutely no trolling in my post, but you're a Warriors stan, so I see how you can be confused.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

I think we would have played the Spurs that year, and I think the Finals ended up being a 7 games series between them and the Pistons. If we had gotten past Detroit, I think we would have won the championship that year. Hell you could argue that was one of the best teams in franchise history, probably only 2nd to the 2013 team.

Worst part about it is that we were blowing out the Pistons in Game 5 when he got hurt. I know it was kinda early to pull starters, but I still blame Stan Van Gundy for riding Wade too hard.

oops. youre right, i was misremembering when the pistons faced the lakers in the finals. It was the year before, when they clobbered the lakers in an upset.

but yeah, what a fucking bummer when wade got injured. we were looking like we were about to pull away with that series at that point.

Heat?

if he played alongside a decent wade and whiteside and dragic, he would've definitely gotten far. he would've still lost Bosh for the season and who knows how well wade wouldve held up for another long playoff run but dragic and whiteside are damn nice pieces to work with.

 

[Spinluck]

Ugh, people continue to overrate the Western Conference. Warriors lucked out by the Clippers choking and Spurs getting got early, not to mention OKC missing the playoffs because of injuries. Warriors had an even easier ride to the Finals than the Cavs, they have yet to beat a championship quality team in these playoffs. LeBron beat the Bulls and to a lesser extent the Hawks, both teams are way better than any of the teams the Warriors faced. Cavs would have wiped the floor the Pelicans, Rockets, and the Grizzlies. Keep up the false narrative of the Weak East and how easily the Cavs will be beat, it will only make all of your LeBron haters tears sweeter.