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[NickFire]

Based on NBA ratings, I don't think the product is appealing to anyone, let alone old men.

That's not good. Looks like I might be in the minority on this one I guess.

 

[diffusionx]

Baseball is better than it has been in 15-20 years thanks to the rules changes and the new crop of players they are bringing in. It was legit unwatchable in the mid-to-late 10s because of the analytics and TTO and all that, but they are fixing that. Basketball and football, though, are still in the middle of the "statistical revolution" and like baseball 10 years ago, it's ruining both sports. But football is also confounded by the intractable safety problem so they keep trying to make up rules to showw the illusion of safety. Basketball and football also both have labor problems, in that the players have so much leverage they do things like not play because they dont feel like it, or demand trades a year after signing a huge deal, leading to chaos and disconnecting fans with teams

 

[Ballthyrm]

Americans love contact sports, none of that pussy ass shit soccer where they flop without being touched.

If that were true, rugby and NHL would be king.
I think Americans love "start and stop" sports. Where they can go get a beer and come back and not miss anything.
Americans sports are convenient, like the fast food you eat while watching them.

Soccer players are plenty capable of not flopping all over the place, the rules are just shit and they aren't sanctionned for it.
FIFA is corrupt and they don't want to change the dumb rules.

 

[RagnarokIV]

I quickly read this as modern NSA is garbage, was expecting a different thread.

 

[BigBeauford]

If that were true, rugby and NHL would be king.
I think Americans love "start and stop" sports. Where they can go get a beer and come back and not miss anything.
Americans sports are convenient, like the fast food you eat while watching them.

Soccer players are plenty capable of not flopping all over the place, the rules are just shit and they aren't sanctionned for it.
FIFA is corrupt and they don't want to change the dumb rules.

Americans love drama or the idea of a dramatic moment. The potential for a dramatic moment is there on virtually every football play, from both the offense and the defense. Add in the infrequency of the games (16 games played) and each game represents a very high stakes affair, where 1 or 2 losses could mean the end, and the inverse can apply to the wins.

I think high stakes soccer (think world cup or the Olympics) is fantastic, while most of the time a soccer match feels like watching a cross country event with a soccer ball thrown in. Lots of long periods where the ball is being passed backwards and sideways. While I understand why it's done, it doesn't make it any more compelling.

 

[West Texas CEO]

The 2024 Olympics was the best basketball I've ever seen in my life.

Not the 3x3 competition, though. Toss that out.

 

[diffusionx]

Americans love drama or the idea of a dramatic moment. The potential for a dramatic moment is there on virtually every football play, from both the offense and the defense. Add in the infrequency of the games (16 games played) and each game represents a very high stakes affair, where 1 or 2 losses could mean the end, and the inverse can apply to the wins.

I think high stakes soccer (think world cup or the Olympics) is fantastic, while most of the time a soccer match feels like watching a cross country event with a soccer ball thrown in. Lots of long periods where the ball is being passed backwards and sideways. While I understand why it's done, it doesn't make it any more compelling.

Eh, NFL blew up because of fantasy football. Now it's gambling although I don't know if it's super popular or we just get bombarded with ads 24/7 and it feels that way.

It's much easier/more casual/more normie friendly to do FFB than fantasy baseball or basketball.

 

[IDKFA]

Americans love contact sports, none of that pussy ass shit soccer where they flop without being touched.

What about Rugby? It's a more exciting American football, but without the pussy helmets and pads.

 

[Rival]

As a lifelong Bulls fan (old enough to remember Jordan’s rookie year) the fact that the Bulls have basically been shit for the last 25 years minus the pre-injury Rose years doesn’t help keep me interested in the modern NBA. At least I have a little bit of hope right now with the Bears.

 

[sharp weiner]

What about Rugby? It's a more exciting American football, but without the pussy helmets and pads.

They are called nut cups, not pussy helmets.

(That was a joke)

 

[WoJ]

First and foremost soccer will always be niche in the US. I grew up in the 80s and 90s and heard all my life soccer was going to overtake football, baseball, and basketball. It's never happened and won't in my lifetime. Especially not when the best players and leagues in the world aren't here.

Second, the modern NBA is trash. It isn't just the 3 point shooting. Alot of it has to do with the unlikability of the modern NBA star. These guys spent years playing buddy buddy and making super teams. The "player empowerment" era has left tons of lapsed fans disenfranchised with the product. Thankfully that group of stars is starting to age out. The next crop of guys seem better, but ironically are a lot of foreign players. Guys like Luka, Jokic, and Giannis.

 

[natjjohn]

Only made it a couple posts in. First post reads like a fair weather a fan that dipped out when Jordan left.

Second post mentions the athleticism is gone when todays NBA players are undoubtedly the greatest athletes in NBA history (as you go through time, athletes in all sports are better as knowledge and training has improved)

I have issues with the NBA structure historically but the talent level of NBA players is insane

 

[bender]

Golden State played some of the most beautiful basketball ever. I do wish they'd bring hand checking back but the general audience prefers offense to defense in most sports.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Based on NBA ratings, I don't think the product is appealing to anyone, let alone old men.

League revenue has skyrocketed over the last 10 years.

 

[bender]

League revenue has skyrocketed over the last 10 years.

That isn't going to change soon either as the new TV deal kicks in this year and lasts another ten years. 100m per year contracts are right around the corner for the faces of the league.

 

[natjjohn]

League revenue has skyrocketed over the last 10 years.

Also think ratings in general with all the copious amounts of entertainment options not really an apples to apples comparison. 1975… what there were four stations and radio to listen to

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Nah, games pretty good. The players are so much more athletic and the offensive play is so much more exciting. Also, the mid range shot is dead because of analytics. The three is statistically the better shot.

 

[Soodanim]

Oh and I want to give a shout out to soccer. it's faster than every before. Players are insanely fast. But they cant fucking shoot. those days of messi, iniensta, ronaldhino and ronaldo just putting on a show are long gone. Now everyone can run but cant finish.

unlike baseball though, its still fun to watch because its slightly faster paced than it used to be, but scoring is still very low because no one can finish.

It might be faster, but it's full of pussies and cheaters. Snipers everywhere, everyone's rolling round begging for free kicks and penalties. Football was better when people got up and played the game.

More Viera, less theatrics.

Sports die when the heart is replaced by money.

 

[DetectiveBananas]

Just my old man 2 cents on the NBA. Watched from late 80’s to losing interest in the 2020’s. Don’t understand how making offense easier by removing defensive abilities is a plus for the league.
1. When MJ went for 50 in the 90’s he was using an array of moves (fade aways, slashing, dunks, crazy lay ups, and maybe 2-3 3-pointers). Meanwhile the Defense was packing the paint with 2 PF’s and a Center looking to block every shot.
2. Hand checking didn’t let just anyone go to the basket for a barely contested layup. Small ball lineups of the 2010’s-Present makes layups/dunks even easier without proper rim protection.
3. The 3-Point shot….Jesus F-ing Christ . Everyone thinks they’re Steph or their coaches giving everyone the green light. I check the box scores at the end of games and it’s tragic when you see teams going 9-37 from 3 and lose the game by 30. I’ve seen teams have a 3on1 fast break and everyone runs to the 3point line instead of attacking the rim.
4. Flopping. It’s always been a problem since the 2000’s but at least they cracked down the KD (arm swing), Harden (falling leg kick on 3’s), etc..etc..Let’s hope it never gets to soccer level dives consistently.
5. The Athletic ability is pretty good right now. Guys are jumping out of the gym and playing multiple positions.
6. The international players are really coming into their own the last 10 years. Just looking at the MVP races shows that Europe knows how to produce talent. That’s good for the league any way you slice it.
7. At least come playoff time teams get to play more physical and not get insta whistles for breathing on guys. If the League could let the players get a bit rougher they could find a better balance. Great offense vs Great Defense is still fun to watch.
Not too late to find a better balance so the league can prosper and the fans get rewarded.

 

[Durien]

Oh and I want to give a shout out to soccer. it's faster than every before. Players are insanely fast. But they cant fucking shoot. those days of messi, iniensta, ronaldhino and ronaldo just putting on a show are long gone. Now everyone can run but cant finish.

unlike baseball though, its still fun to watch because its slightly faster paced than it used to be, but scoring is still very low because no one can finish.

Give hockey a try.

 

[m14]

Rugby (a real mans game) will also become dominant in the US soon, especially with the US hosting the world cup in 2031.

That's my honest prediction.

Rugby Union isn't even particularly popular in England, where it is a minority sport and only propped up because it is a favourite of the English establishment. Is it the dwindling grassroots participation or the unsustainable professional league on the brink of collapse which persuades you that the NFL should be quaking in their boots?

As for the jibes about helmets and pads, strangely I've never heard an actual rugby player saying that. They tend to speak in awe of the superior athleticism and power of the NFL players.

And surely you have noticed that the two best football stadiums in England (including Wembley, the actual national football stadium) were both built with NFL teams in mind?

 

[IDKFA]

Rugby Union isn't even particularly popular in England, where it is a minority sport and only propped up because it is a favourite of the English establishment. Is it the dwindling grassroots participation or the unsustainable professional league on the brink of collapse which persuades you that the NFL should be quaking in their boots?

Popular where I live. Yes, the league is going through a rough spot, but it'll recover. Remember, the sport hasn't been professional for as long as football. It needs time.

As for the jibes about helmets and pads, strangely I've never heard an actual rugby player saying that. They tend to speak in awe of the superior athleticism and power of the NFL players.

It was banter, mate. Calm.

However, Rugby players are still a lot tougher. That's a fact.

And surely you have noticed that the two best football stadiums in England (including Wembley, the actual national football stadium) were both built with NFL teams in mind?

The New Wembley was built to replace the original Wembley Stadium, which had fallen into disrepair, and to serve as the national stadium for England's football.

While the stadium's design allows for it to host American football games, it was primarily built to accommodate football matches and other events such as concerts and major sporting competitions.

The other stadium your talking about I assume is Spurs?

Not sure the point your making here? The UK has NFL fans? I'm not disputing this. I'm talking primarily about real football taking over NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB in popularity in the US.

 

[diffusionx]

Not sure the point your making here? The UK has NFL fans? I'm not disputing this. I'm talking primarily about real football taking over NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB in popularity in the US.

Soccer isn't going to do that lmao. Yes World Cup is going to be in the USA soon, but here's the problem, that high level of soccer STINKS to watch with rare exceptions like the 2022 WC Final. The teams play it so safe, it's so boring. The Euros were unwatchable. Normies are going to tune in and watch maybe the least fun soccer that exists and be tuned out for another few years. That said. Young people like the brands, like Barcelona and wahtever, and they like the players, but I don't see any evidence they're watching the sport. Same problem as the NBA, really.

However, Rugby players are still a lot tougher. That's a fact.

I really don't think the word fact means what you think it does. Nor do you understand how huge and fast NFL players are these days.

Rugby has zero, absolutely zero, not even a little bit, of presence in the USA. Nobody cares about it whatsoever. And I suspect it never will gain any, because it faces the same problems wrt injuries and damage to the body that other collision sports have.

 

[IDKFA]

Soccer isn't going to do that lmao. Yes World Cup is going to be in the USA soon, but here's the problem, that high level of soccer STINKS to watch with rare exceptions like the 2022 WC Final. The teams play it so safe, it's so boring. The Euros were unwatchable. Normies are going to tune in and watch maybe the least fun soccer that exists and be tuned out for another few years. That said. Young people like the brands, like Barcelona and wahtever, and they like the players, but I don't see any evidence they're watching the sport. Same problem as the NBA, really.

I think the problem here is that you don't like real football. To say the high level football "stinks", or the Euros were "unwatchable" is a you problem rather than a problem with the sport.

I really don't think the word fact means what you think it does. Nor do you understand how huge and fast NFL players are these days.

When a NFL players keeps playing with a ripped open scrotum and one of his testicles hanging out, then we can start talking.

Rugby has zero, absolutely zero, not even a little bit, of presence in the USA. Nobody cares about it whatsoever. And I suspect it never will gain any, because it faces the same problems wrt injuries and damage to the body that other collision sports have.

Not true. Zero would mean the sport doesn't exist in the US at all, yet it does. There is a league with teams and a US national team. The US is also hosting a Rugby world cup.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

We got the usual guy in an American sports thread talking about euro trash that will never catch on in the States.

 

[diffusionx]

I think the problem here is that you don't like real football. To say the high level football "stinks", or the Euros were "unwatchable" is a you problem rather than a problem with the sport.

"omg yas, that 0-0 game where they spent 70% of the game kicking the ball to each other in the midfield, so beautiful, such great skill" - yea good luck selling that to a new person, it's a sport problem. Especially when you do not see this putrid product on the team level games.

When a NFL players keeps playing with a ripped open scrotum and one of his testicles hanging out, then we can start talking.

I have to say I've never been focused on the testicles of NFL players, but playing through injuries is commonplace.

Not true. Zero would mean the sport doesn't exist in the US at all, yet it does. There is a league with teams and a US national team. The US is also hosting a Rugby world cup.

I had no idea, says it all. Still doesn't matter. There's no presence here. Probably similar to the NFL presence in Europe in 1988 before even the euro league came out.

We got the usual guy in an American sports thread talking about euro trash that will never catch on in the States.

Many such cases!

 

[m14]

Popular where I live. Yes, the league is going through a rough spot, but it'll recover. Remember, the sport hasn't been professional for as long as football. It needs time.

30 years wasn't enough? It sure was for Wasps, Worcester and London Irish.

The New Wembley was built to replace the original Wembley Stadium, which had fallen into disrepair, and to serve as the national stadium for England's football.

While the stadium's design allows for it to host American football games, it was primarily built to accommodate football matches and other events such as concerts and major sporting competitions.

The other stadium your talking about I assume is Spurs?

Not sure the point your making here? The UK has NFL fans? I'm not disputing this. I'm talking primarily about real football taking over NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB in popularity in the US.

I was replying specifically to your ludicrous claim that Rugby Union was "going to become dominant in the US soon." That seems a reach when it's a minority sport in England and the only countries where it is the number one sport are Wales (Population just over 3 million) and New Zealand (Population just over 5 million.)

The point about Wembley is to show that rather than your pipe dream of Rugby Union exploding in popularity in the US, in reality it is now losing popularity to the NFL in its own back yard.
Plus, it's got to be a little embarrassing for the "real football" brigade who rage about Americans using the term soccer (they also call it this in Ireland, Australia and many other countries) to see their national football stadium turned into a celebration of American football so regularly.

Anyway, based on your prediction I'm sure we can all look forward to seeing Sale taking on Northampton at the Rose Bowl very soon!

 

[IDKFA]

30 years wasn't enough? It sure was for Wasps, Worcester and London Irish.

touché

I have to admit, the English league is in a mess at the moment, but it can't get any worse.

I was replying specifically to your ludicrous claim that Rugby Union was "going to become dominant in the US soon." That seems a reach when it's a minority sport in England and the only countries where it is the number one sport are Wales (Population just over 3 million) and New Zealand (Population just over 5 million.)

We'll see in time. The sport is gaining popularity in the US and other countries.

The point about Wembley is to show that rather than your pipe dream of Rugby Union exploding in popularity in the US, in reality it is now losing popularity to the NFL in its own back yard.

NFL absolutely isn't more popular than Rugby in the UK.

Plus, it's got to be a little embarrassing for the "real football" brigade who rage about Americans using the term soccer (they also call it this in Ireland, Australia and many other countries)

Call it what you like. But it's called football.

The world govering body is called FIFA, which stands for.......

Federation Internationale de Football Association

The English govering body, the oldest in the world, is just called the Football Association.

to see their national football stadium turned into a celebration of American football so regularly.

How many? 4?

Not really regular is it.

Anyway, based on your prediction I'm sure we can all look forward to seeing Sale taking on Northampton at the Rose Bowl very soon!

Nah. It'll be Bath vs Bristol Bears

"omg yas, that 0-0 game where they spent 70% of the game kicking the ball to each other in the midfield, so beautiful, such great skill" - yea good luck selling that to a new person, it's a sport problem. Especially when you do not see this putrid product on the team level games.

Respectfully, I think this is just your own personal view. If football was as boring as you make out, it wouldn't be the most watched sport on Earth.

I have to say I've never been focused on the testicles of NFL players, but playing through injuries is commonplace.

Not the same as Rugby players. Rugby players can just walk into the NFL and get singed. If you can play Rugby, you can excel at American football.

I had no idea, says it all. Still doesn't matter. There's no presence here.

If there was no presence, then there wouldn't be a league and teams. Just because you're not aware of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Anyway, gentlemen. Thank you for taking the time in responding. I've made my point and you've made some very good counter arguments. However, I don't think we'll convince each other, so how about we call it a day?

 

[diffusionx]

Respectfully, I think this is just your own personal view. If football was as boring as you make out, it wouldn't be the most watched sport on Earth.

Like I said, it’s played differently at international level. The club level is much more entertaining an exciting, but if you tune in just with the biggest most high profile games, you’re gonna see the most boring shit imaginable. Like I said the euros were putrid. Most WC 2026 games are going to be like this unfortunately.

Not the same as Rugby players. Rugby players can just walk into the NFL and get singed. If you can play Rugby, you can excel at American football.

Then why don’t they lol. The money is insane in football compared to international rugby. If it was as you state then the league would be full of rugby players. It’s not. There’s a few but it’s rare. What you say is just nonsense.

 

[chakadave]

That's not good. Looks like I might be in the minority on this one I guess.

They get by far the most views on clips and youtube though. NBA lives on viral stuff.

 

[IDKFA]

Like I said, it’s played differently at international level. The club level is much more entertaining an exciting, but if you tune in just with the biggest most high profile games, you’re gonna see the most boring shit imaginable. Like I said the euros were putrid. Most WC 2026 games are going to be like this unfortunately.


Then why don’t they lol. The money is insane in football compared to international rugby. If it was as you state then the league would be full of rugby players. It’s not. There’s a few but it’s rare. What you say is just nonsense.

Sorry mate, see my last paragraph from my previous post.

 

[diffusionx]

Sorry mate, see my last paragraph from my previous post.

It makes sense to exit the thread when you realize your points are retarded, we’ve all done it.

 

[IDKFA]

It makes sense to exit the thread when you realize your points are retarded, we’ve all done it.

Hey now. No need to resort to childish insult.

Clearly I've struck a nerve, for which I apologise for. I'll exit the thread.

Peace

 

[m14]

Hey now. No need to resort to childish insult.

Clearly I've struck a nerve, for which I apologise for. I'll exit the thread.

Peace

It was a fun discussion. Good luck to your rugby team this season.