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2015 NCAA Tournament March Madness |OT| 67 Teams Vie For Second Place

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The best scorers leave too early for the NBA. It's no wonder that college ball isn't what it used to be.
This was true 10 and 15 years ago though, and the game was objectively much better (meaning less painful to watch) back then.

Really weird. Well, not really, the NCAA doesn't give a crap about the quality of the game as long as the money keeps rolling in. It's a sport with nobody behind the wheel.
 

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
The best scorers leave too early for the NBA. It's no wonder that college ball isn't what it used to be.

Its also micromanaged by coaches, under officiated in the paint, over officiated on the perimeter, but yep, the talent leaves when they are brimming with POTENTIAL. A lot of them aren't even particularly great players on the college level but they have POTENTIAL.

I miss the days where you couldn't sniff the league as a sophomore unless you were a phenom. Not any more....POTENTIAL!
 

spyder_ur

Member
I agree with the sentiments around the quality of the game. Noone scored more than 75 points tonight. Only 8 individual team scores have been above 75 points since the round of 32 started. Sure that's an arbitrary threshold, but it's also not a high one at all.

Scoring isn't everything in terms of quality basketball but in this case it's indicative of a product that's suffering.

Luckily March Madness is basically infallible and covers alot of those warts.
 
D

Deleted member 12837

Unconfirmed Member
After tonight's games, Duke's defense has jumped up to #27 on Kenpom. Not bad, these kids continue to improve.
 

Jarate

Banned
I agree with the sentiments around the quality of the game. Noone scored more than 75 points tonight. Only 8 individual team scores have been above 75 points since the round of 32 started. Sure that's an arbitrary threshold, but it's also not a high one at all.

Scoring isn't everything in terms of quality basketball but in this case it's indicative of a product that's suffering.

Luckily March Madness is basically infallible and covers alot of those warts.

Its a mixture of bad shooting, an increase of lengthy defenders, and a 35 second shot clock

I dont think the product is suffering, just a lot of the teams this year are very legthy and good defenders, and theres not a guy who can penetrate very well
 
I agree with the sentiments around the quality of the game. Noone scored more than 75 points tonight. Only 8 individual team scores have been above 75 points since the round of 32 started. Sure that's an arbitrary threshold, but it's also not a high one at all.

Scoring isn't everything in terms of quality basketball but in this case it's indicative of a product that's suffering.

Luckily March Madness is basically infallible and covers alot of those warts.
I would spin it the other way, it's the strength of March Madness that has allowed the game to deteriorate to the extent it has.

The NBA addressed their problems with rule changes. The NCAA... well, why fix what isn't broken?

Its a mixture of bad shooting, an increase of lengthy defenders, and a 35 second shot clock

I dont think the product is suffering, just a lot of the teams this year are very legthy and good defenders, and theres not a guy who can penetrate very well
It's not a one year trend. In fact, year after year it seems like we're saying, "well maybe next year it'll be better!"
 

Jarate

Banned
I would spin it the other way, it's the strength of March Madness that has allowed the game to deteriorate to the extent it has.

The NBA addressed their problems with rule changes. The NCAA... well, why fix what isn't broken?


It's not a one year trend. In fact, year after year it seems like we're saying, "well maybe next year it'll be better!"
I dont see how the game is "deteriorating"

Maybe yall just dont like the college game. Of course teams are gonna struggle on offense when players are this athletic now and this big, and of course amateur players are gonna struggle to score well.

Ive enjoyed the hell out of this year and the game
 
I dont see how the game is "deteriorating"

Maybe yall just dont like the college game. Of course teams are gonna struggle on offense when players are this athletic now and this big, and of course amateur players are gonna struggle to score well.

Ive enjoyed the hell out of this year and the game
Are you a Wisconsin fan? That team has the best offense in the nation. Of course they are pleasant to watch!

As a general rule, I prefer the college game as it was about 10 years ago. Lots of style clashes, passing/motion teams vs drive and kick teams vs the few teams with a solid post-up big man. On the defensive side you had teams playing zone vs switching man vs press man.

Now it seems like everybody's doing more or less the same thing, with a few exceptions. Play physical as hell on defense, chuck it and rebound on offense.

Part of my pain is that I've watched a lot less college ball over the last few years due to my team's constant suckiness. So it's still a rude awakening when I turn on a tourney game these days. My expectations are out of date.
 

BCDAWG7

Member
I would like to see them change from a 35 second shot clock to 25 seconds. Pick up the pace a little bit. But I love watching the college game.
 
After tonight's games, Duke's defense has jumped up to #27 on Kenpom. Not bad, these kids continue to improve.

They were fantastic in the paint. Mostly because Utah were running very very simple dribble drive stuff, no misdirection to drag the shot blocker away from the action at all.
 

Jarate

Banned
Are you a Wisconsin fan? That team has the best offense in the nation. Of course they are pleasant to watch!

As a general rule, I prefer the college game as it was about 10 years ago. Lots of style clashes, passing/motion teams vs drive and kick teams vs the few teams with a solid post-up big man. On the defensive side you had teams playing zone vs switching man vs press man.

Now it seems like everybody's doing more or less the same thing, with a few exceptions. Play physical as hell on defense, chuck it and rebound on offense.

Part of my pain is that I've watched a lot less college ball over the last few years due to my team's constant suckiness. So it's still a rude awakening when I turn on a tourney game these days. My expectations are out of date.

Teams are getting more physical cause the midrange jumper is literally useless in any basketball game. You either bang inside or chuck a three, and that's the fault of the three point line. Im prolly the only person still who thinks the 3 pount line is bad for the game, but its just mirroring the NBA game when they found out the same thing,

Honestly, the game just needs to move the three point line out more towards NBA range and that will fix a lot of issues and space out the floor more. Teams like Kentucky are physical because of how huge they are, there's literally no space on the court.

I think there's still a lot of styles, and I think that zone defense is kind of stupid (it only works because college players cant shoot yet, and doesnt help players develop the ability to defend well) but the game is still fun. This year is a down year talent wise, especially offensively, but the defense has been a solutely superb.

I generally like more defensive style which is why I may like college b-ball this year so much, I am a wiscy fan and maybe thats why I like physical defense so much lol from dealing with years past when our offense was mediocre at best.

this has probably been the worst sweet sixteen though, there were teams like ucla that had no business being in there, and a team like wvu that plays a defensive style that is not gonna beat good teams.

Tomorrow and sundays games should be fantastic. Wiscy vs Arizona will be an awesome game (two top 4 teams are playing each other in the elite eight, good job selection committee!), Duke Gonzaga will be great, Notre Dame and Kentucky could be good, and the MSU vs Louisville game will feature two of the best 2 coaches in the game
 

iamblades

Member
Its a mixture of bad shooting, an increase of lengthy defenders, and a 35 second shot clock

I dont think the product is suffering, just a lot of the teams this year are very legthy and good defenders, and theres not a guy who can penetrate very well

Shooting percentages and EFG are effectively unchanged since 2002 according to ken pom's stats, and last I checked actually substantially improved from the 60s and 70s(though pure FG% peaked in the 80s and 90s before the 3 pointer became so important).

The best scorers leave too early for the NBA. It's no wonder that college ball isn't what it used to be.

see above, statistically speaking college players are better shooters and scorers today that they ever have been. Besides in the decade or so prior to the one and done, those guys just would have never played college ball at all.

Skill and efficiency is higher than it's ever been in college basketball, it is just pace that is plummeting year after year. Which is why the bolded statement is incorrect. If this were just a one year blip, sure, you could point to dominant defensive teams as the reason. This is a multi decade trend that shows no signs of reversing.

The shot clock is an issue, but the root cause of the pace decline is the overly physical nature of college defenses that forces offenses to grind out possessions instead of playing a more free flowing game.

The nostalgia based argument that the state of the college game is the result of diminished skill or the good players leaving is shown to be false whenever you see a game between two teams who want to play a flowing offensive game that is called tightly. The players have the skills, but the defense being allowed to hack and grab and bump constantly makes it impossible to show off.
 
"This has been one of my favorite groups. They've been easy to coach and they really get along. There's only a good attitude, only a good attitude and a willingness to learn." Krzyzewski said. "Sometimes freshmen don't learn that until they're older. But these guys knew it from the beginning. That's why they've had a special year."

Low key ether'd Rasheed Sulaimon.

Okay it wasn't exactly low key
 
The line on that Duke-Utah game was 5.5. The totally and completely unneccesary free throw by Quinn Cook, after the game had already ended, both teams were halfway to the locker room, and Tracy Wolfson was standing beside K ready to interview him, gave Duke a 6 point win.

Tell me someone in Vegas didn't call in some Buffalo Wild Wings shit
 
The line on that Duke-Utah game was 5.5. The totally and completely unneccesary free throw by Quinn Cook, after the game had already ended, both teams were halfway to the locker room, and Tracy Wolfson was standing beside K ready to interview him, gave Duke a 6 point win.

Tell me someone in Vegas didn't call in some Buffalo Wild Wings shit

Vegas actually took a hit on it.

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id...illions-dollars-swing-las-vegas?ex_cid=espnfb

Wow the Wisconsin/Arizona match is the first Elite 8 in back to back years since 73 and 74. Wow
 

Crisco

Banned
I dunno exactly how you score a "coaching match", but when one team scores at the rim all game while the other is taking jumpers, that's a KO. GG Pitino.
 

devilhawk

Member
This was true 10 and 15 years ago though, and the game was objectively much better (meaning less painful to watch) back then.

Really weird. Well, not really, the NCAA doesn't give a crap about the quality of the game as long as the money keeps rolling in. It's a sport with nobody behind the wheel.
What did change was the one or two and dones. Before, they never even came to school and didn't use up valuable coaching time. Additionally, the coaches know that their teams do not have comparable talent and have realized their best chance is to make the game as shitty and physical as possible. The way the game is being officiated only enables it.
 
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Mrbob

Member
I'd be more impressed with Kentucky at number one had they not faced two offensively challenged teams in back to back games. Curious to see how they fare against Notre Dame. First team they are facing in the tourney which have a good offense.

Duke is bringing the biggest heat up defensively in the tourney it seems. Though these numbers are just raw numbers and don't really mean much since every round is a one game tournament. Anomalies happen all the time, like North Carolina shooting 8 for 13 in three point shots against Wisconsin.
 

old

Member
Its also micromanaged by coaches, under officiated in the paint, over officiated on the perimeter, but yep, the talent leaves when they are brimming with POTENTIAL. A lot of them aren't even particularly great players on the college level but they have POTENTIAL.

I miss the days where you couldn't sniff the league as a sophomore unless you were a phenom. Not any more....POTENTIAL!

That's the fault of the GMs in the NBA. They draft potential and raw talent above all else. Even Stern admitted the association already pretty much knows who's going to be in the league by the time of MacDonalds All American game.
 

Mrbob

Member
That is also a reason why the NBA game suffers a bit right now too. Too much potential, not enough true skill on display.

I'm nervous as hell for tonight. UK hasn't faced an offense like ND.

Kentucky still towers over ND. ND is going to have to hit a high percentage of threes to win, which can happen in a tournament game. I don't see ND doing much inside.
 

iamblades

Member
That is also a reason why the NBA game suffers a bit right now too. Too much potential, not enough true skill on display.



Kentucky still towers over ND. ND is going to have to hit a high percentage of threes to win, which can happen in a tournament game. I don't see ND doing much inside.

Smaller quicker teams can get good looks inside if they attack in transition and if they make multiple drives to force rotations. Off the first drive, good luck finding anything.

The bigger issue size wise for ND is that with a 6'4" PF, that should be 2 points for either KAT or WCS every time down the court. They don't have the bodies to defend UK inside, and they don't seem to have the perimeter pressure to disrupt UK from getting the ball inside.
 
I'd be doing pretty well with my original picks. Had Arizona, ND and Gonzaga in the E8. I'd have all the elite 8 correct except Villanova. Changed my picks to Baylor, Kansas, Iowa. Silly me. Still have 3 of my 4 F4 in the hunt by the best I can do in the GAF pool is 10th place.
 
Holy shit, Texas finally fired Richard Barnes.

The worst well-known coach in America.

Names being thrown around as targets are Shaka Smart and Gregg Marshall. Something tells me Texas is overrating the value of their job and will have to set their sights a bit lower.
 
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