Kobun Heat
Member
jesusDCharlie said:
2D Elitists Please Ether Buy a Handheld and shut the f*ck up or Screw Yourselves.
- Thread starter Lemurnator
- Start date
JackFrost2012
Banned
man, it's a good thing most people can't read Japanese
Lemurnator
Banned
Musashi Wins! said:
Have you played Majora's Mask?
It has exploration and mystery coming out the ass.
sasimirobot
Junior Member
"マン汁飲む魔法忍者：不思議のアナル大冒険　２"
Pretty sick. How long did it take you dig this title up out of your J-pron collection?
Pretty sick. How long did it take you dig this title up out of your J-pron collection?
Kobun Heat said:
For those who can't read it, it seems to say:
The Man-Juice Drinking Magical Ninja: The Miraculous Anal Adventure 2
Edit: Fuck, forgot the "2". Played the first one, and it was cool, but wasn't nearly as immersive as it needed to be to really get me to connect to the story. Since the new one's on the 360, I'm hoping the 720p really helps me get into things faster.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
sasimirobot said:
can someone just translate that to english for the rest of us?
Please tell me we won't soon have to deal with Working Designs message board refugees here.
I don't care if a game is 2D or 3D. Just make it good.
But developers, when you take an old series and decide to go 3D with it, remember that not everything that works in 2D works in 3D. (See: Prince of Persia 3D vs. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time.)
I don't care if a game is 2D or 3D. Just make it good.
But developers, when you take an old series and decide to go 3D with it, remember that not everything that works in 2D works in 3D. (See: Prince of Persia 3D vs. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time.)
Why do people keep bringing up Symphony of the Night in any kind of discussion where "2D is always better than 3D!!!!" Here's a true story: no 2D Castlevania will come close to matching Symphony of the Night, ever. If you think Aria or DS are close, then you didn't know about all the stupid shit hidden in that game. Cuz, man, there's a lot. And that's what makes it good. And even if 3D Castlevania was as good as Devil May Cry 3, which itself remains the best action game ever, 2D or 3D, it wouldn't be as good as SotN. SotN is an exception to the rule of 2D/3D stuff. It's better than any of that, and will forever be the best Castlevania can ever be, forever and ever, amen.
Also, 2D kinda sucks. I have no idea what people are talking about when they think it's "better," and then cite the Neo Geo??? THAT piece of trash is why games are better in 2D?
There's some genres that work better in 2D. Like, 2D Fighters. They're different than 3D fighters, completely. 3D fighters are high-mid-low guessing games, 2D fighters are about tricks and silly crap. The most basic of 2D SF strats, "the fire ball trap," doesn't work in 3D games, there's an easy answer. Sidestep, fireball trap is worthless, projectile characters are crap. And, instead, they're based off of more intelligent guessing and baiting high or mid, instead of "here's a fireball, whatcha gonna do??" Not that Neo Geo games have ever had that problem, all of them neglect intelligent play in favor of stupid rushing forever.
Traditional shooters also work better in 2D, because they're meant to be cheap and 2D helps out a lot. Not every shooter can have the budget of Gradius V, but they can do their job without it. Not to say the same thing couldn't be better if it were done in polygons, but most shooter companies can't afford doing it, so 2D makes the most sense. It's a cost issue with those.
But, most of the time, it's more nostalgia's better than the truth, with 2D. Saying Shadow the Hedgehog sucks is one thing, but thinking the original Sonic games were some pinnacle of 2D engineering? Sonic Heroes, without the bugs that caused pitfall deaths during non-interactive sequences, was pretty much "OLD SCHOOL" sonic. You run, you remember when to jump at a certain point so you don't run into spikes or monsters, repeat. I think the 360 does a good job of pointing out how old games are trash, in that Geometry Wars Evolved is so much better as a shooter than Smash TV and Gauntlet could ever hope to be.
And Gauntlet really, really sucks. The whole game is mashing "shoot" button, BUT INTELLIGENTLY!!!
3D shouldn't be applied to all franchises as an improvement, sure. There's no way to make Castlevania better than SotN, and there's no real way to make Mega Man better either. MML/Rockman Dash was really good, but not as a Mega Man game, but as something different; MMX7 & 8 sucked at 3D because the franchise wasn't really well equipped to handle any kind of change of dimension. Same with Makaimura (Maximo is NOT Ghosts and Goblins, no matter how "hard" you think it is), Goemon (all 3D Goemon games were trash) and Street Fighter (actually, SFEX2 isn't that bad, it's pretty good for an SF game, but the stuff that's broken is realllllllllly broken).
I think 2D on consoles is dumb. There's no point in wasting money on a game that won't sell in either territory just to make sprites look pretty. 2D is what handhelds are for, and where good 2D still exists. There's a market for ports of ports of 2D shooters and fighters, sure, but real 2D games have handhelds, and that's really to reason to own them. And also another reason why handhelds have had the most amazing games the past few years. If you think "GUH SCREW HANDHELDS I WANT SUPER HI-RES SPRITES WITH FEATURE QUALITY ANIMATION BLAH BLAH," then you're a moron. Even SotN had to steal half its sprites from Dracula X, and GGX2 certainly has a bunch of badly animated hi-res sprites, the cost of creating such a game would be so high, it may as well be released as a movie.
Let the 2D dream die. Keep 2D sprites for fighters and shooters, when it'll actually make an impact when they're released. Embrace polygons. They're doing amazing things with them these days (I hear the Rockman X remake is pretty rad...).
Also, 2D kinda sucks. I have no idea what people are talking about when they think it's "better," and then cite the Neo Geo??? THAT piece of trash is why games are better in 2D?
There's some genres that work better in 2D. Like, 2D Fighters. They're different than 3D fighters, completely. 3D fighters are high-mid-low guessing games, 2D fighters are about tricks and silly crap. The most basic of 2D SF strats, "the fire ball trap," doesn't work in 3D games, there's an easy answer. Sidestep, fireball trap is worthless, projectile characters are crap. And, instead, they're based off of more intelligent guessing and baiting high or mid, instead of "here's a fireball, whatcha gonna do??" Not that Neo Geo games have ever had that problem, all of them neglect intelligent play in favor of stupid rushing forever.
Traditional shooters also work better in 2D, because they're meant to be cheap and 2D helps out a lot. Not every shooter can have the budget of Gradius V, but they can do their job without it. Not to say the same thing couldn't be better if it were done in polygons, but most shooter companies can't afford doing it, so 2D makes the most sense. It's a cost issue with those.
But, most of the time, it's more nostalgia's better than the truth, with 2D. Saying Shadow the Hedgehog sucks is one thing, but thinking the original Sonic games were some pinnacle of 2D engineering? Sonic Heroes, without the bugs that caused pitfall deaths during non-interactive sequences, was pretty much "OLD SCHOOL" sonic. You run, you remember when to jump at a certain point so you don't run into spikes or monsters, repeat. I think the 360 does a good job of pointing out how old games are trash, in that Geometry Wars Evolved is so much better as a shooter than Smash TV and Gauntlet could ever hope to be.
And Gauntlet really, really sucks. The whole game is mashing "shoot" button, BUT INTELLIGENTLY!!!
3D shouldn't be applied to all franchises as an improvement, sure. There's no way to make Castlevania better than SotN, and there's no real way to make Mega Man better either. MML/Rockman Dash was really good, but not as a Mega Man game, but as something different; MMX7 & 8 sucked at 3D because the franchise wasn't really well equipped to handle any kind of change of dimension. Same with Makaimura (Maximo is NOT Ghosts and Goblins, no matter how "hard" you think it is), Goemon (all 3D Goemon games were trash) and Street Fighter (actually, SFEX2 isn't that bad, it's pretty good for an SF game, but the stuff that's broken is realllllllllly broken).
I think 2D on consoles is dumb. There's no point in wasting money on a game that won't sell in either territory just to make sprites look pretty. 2D is what handhelds are for, and where good 2D still exists. There's a market for ports of ports of 2D shooters and fighters, sure, but real 2D games have handhelds, and that's really to reason to own them. And also another reason why handhelds have had the most amazing games the past few years. If you think "GUH SCREW HANDHELDS I WANT SUPER HI-RES SPRITES WITH FEATURE QUALITY ANIMATION BLAH BLAH," then you're a moron. Even SotN had to steal half its sprites from Dracula X, and GGX2 certainly has a bunch of badly animated hi-res sprites, the cost of creating such a game would be so high, it may as well be released as a movie.
Let the 2D dream die. Keep 2D sprites for fighters and shooters, when it'll actually make an impact when they're released. Embrace polygons. They're doing amazing things with them these days (I hear the Rockman X remake is pretty rad...).
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I wish I could respond with some well-thought out response explaining why I like 2D more than 3D, but I think Evillore and other have already covered all my points.
So I'll just leave with this lousy image.
So I'll just leave with this lousy image.
I think that's what it comes down to. I enjoy both 2D *and* 3D gameplay and, if the game is good, I couldn't care which one they go with. There can also be bad 2D along with 3D, so it's not as if choosing one format means quality.
It's true that 3D has become more popular, but as long as 2D style games are still made, I'm fine. This includes 2D games that are designed with a 3D engine (Rockman X on PSP is just so damn nice looking and I prefer that to the actual 2D version by a wide margin).
Not a big deal, but kinda funny...catfish said:
The Magical Man Juice Drinking Ninja: Mysterious Anal (BIG) Adventure 2
(Man shiru nomu mahou ninja: fushigi no anaru daibouken 2)
Sounds like a Pee-wee Herman movie or something ('cept Pee-wee isn't into the man juice).
I think the reason that many of us love 2D so much stems from the amount of gameplay and design refinement the form has undergone in the many years it has been around.
Really, 3D gaming has only had a couple of generations to develop, while 2D gaming has essentially been in a constant state of improvement since video games were invented. That's why you get games like The Minish Cap and Castlevania, where so many aspects of the game are handled so artfully.
Really, 3D gaming has only had a couple of generations to develop, while 2D gaming has essentially been in a constant state of improvement since video games were invented. That's why you get games like The Minish Cap and Castlevania, where so many aspects of the game are handled so artfully.
sidnotcrazy
Member
What is so wrong with both? Limiting development to one type is just plain ignorant.
P.S. I hate to say it like millions have said it before, but you forced my hand Castlevania.
P.S. I hate to say it like millions have said it before, but you forced my hand Castlevania.
Another Castlevania game worse than SotN... it's nice, but it's not really any evolution. It's more same stuff. And it's good on a handheld! And it's where it should stay, a cheap, fun game that's fun to play on handhelds. I'd rather see 3 years of new Soma adventures than one new high-res PS2/360/PS3 game that's missing all the stuff that made SotN awesome, like DS was.
That's how it should stay. The lower-cost, handheld version that's always good instead of some big stupid gamble that won't match up to ridiculous expectations, like a console Castlevania would. 2D has its place, and its way better for it to thrive on DS/PSP instead of bombing like Hiroshima and ending a series.
That's how it should stay. The lower-cost, handheld version that's always good instead of some big stupid gamble that won't match up to ridiculous expectations, like a console Castlevania would. 2D has its place, and its way better for it to thrive on DS/PSP instead of bombing like Hiroshima and ending a series.
I'd prefer series to bomb outright, because then at least there'd be no basis for people to tell others to either burn money on substandard products or cease complaining.
Not to mention the end of those people guilting others who are wise with their money and time into contemplating the choice. I'm tired of being told I'm not a "true" or "hardcore" gamer because I don't want to piss money away on handheld shit.
Not to mention the end of those people guilting others who are wise with their money and time into contemplating the choice. I'm tired of being told I'm not a "true" or "hardcore" gamer because I don't want to piss money away on handheld shit.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
I hope I never cross this guy :O
Beer Monkey
Member
2D should not be constrained to handhelds because the screen is small, the resolution sucks (Guilty Gear at 480p still has over double the pixels of any PSP game), there's no surround sound, and the controls are limited.
That said, 2D versus 3D isn't an either/or proposition. There's plenty of room for both on any platform, and anybody whining on either side should shut the fuck up.
That said, 2D versus 3D isn't an either/or proposition. There's plenty of room for both on any platform, and anybody whining on either side should shut the fuck up.
this is the real point. 2D and 3D offer wildly different experiences. 2D is meant for the perfection of rhythmesque timing and is far more precise than 3D could ever be, while 3D allows for the possibility for totally realistic emmersion. I don't see why they can't exist side by side. The problem is that when everyone's favourite game gets translated over a row ensues, everyone claimiing ther format is better. Ideally developers would make two vesions, but this would never happen.
radios shipping overview
Member
This thread is misguided.
If you love 2D gaming, please buy an import-capable PS2. That's where it's at.
If you love 2D gaming, please buy an import-capable PS2. That's where it's at.
genjiZERO said:
2 different versions of one game just to have one 2D and 3D? that's utter garbage.
while some new games should remain 2D (puyo puyo, traditional shooters, capcom fighting games), I see absolutely nothing wrong with many games that were 2D in the 32-bit era and prior moving into 3D on current platforms (Metroid, Suikoden, Castlevania, etc.). In fact, for some of these games, it's a natural progression. What pisses me off is when the 2D fanboys complain about those games and claim that the series died when they went 3D. What utter fanboy bullshit.
Especially if those games are RPGs, because there is absolutely no fundamental gameplay change when going 2D to 3D if the game is a freakin' RPG. Except of course, looking prettier and being more immersive. WHICH IS A GOOD THING.
AdmiralViscen
Banned
Lemurnator said:
The old ones have 3x as many dungeons, with more intuitive maps than a big hub with four main spokes. I love MM, but still.
Things are sacrificed in the name of "science and realism."
EDIT: Fixed post-breaking typo.
WrathOfOtaibah
Banned
I like this thread.
Nothing is more pathetic than some fat big-tittied nerd clamoring for more 2D games. As if one less dimension is somehow the magic key to make all games from "teh suck" to "teh wow." You'll see them around any thread thats made about Neo Geo, SNK Playmore, or Capcom's fighters. Mostly Neo Geo. They'll admit to spending several hundred on these games that you could get on the PS2 for $40. Meaning that the extra $250 spent was really all for naught but try telling them that.
I remember a thread posted asking if people would buy a 2D-only console for $50. A bunch of people said "HELL YEAH I WANT TEH 2D ONLY PLEEZE." These people were pathetic. Hardcore gamers are like riding mopeds. I guess I could be considered a hardcore gamer and a nerd but whenever I see other tools like this in real life, I try to repress all my nerdish hardcore gaming impulses.
I also think that people who say the DS and GBA is "2D's last stand" is stupid. Gaming needs to evolve. If not, direct them to the NES and a brick wall.
Nothing is more pathetic than some fat big-tittied nerd clamoring for more 2D games. As if one less dimension is somehow the magic key to make all games from "teh suck" to "teh wow." You'll see them around any thread thats made about Neo Geo, SNK Playmore, or Capcom's fighters. Mostly Neo Geo. They'll admit to spending several hundred on these games that you could get on the PS2 for $40. Meaning that the extra $250 spent was really all for naught but try telling them that.
I remember a thread posted asking if people would buy a 2D-only console for $50. A bunch of people said "HELL YEAH I WANT TEH 2D ONLY PLEEZE." These people were pathetic. Hardcore gamers are like riding mopeds. I guess I could be considered a hardcore gamer and a nerd but whenever I see other tools like this in real life, I try to repress all my nerdish hardcore gaming impulses.
I also think that people who say the DS and GBA is "2D's last stand" is stupid. Gaming needs to evolve. If not, direct them to the NES and a brick wall.
AdmiralViscen
Banned
The Experiment said:
I love how 2D-haters carry the "3D doesn't break games by its nature, it's just a different perspective!" argument and "2D gaming is not evolving!" at the same time.
I thought a game was a game, regardless of its perspective? Why can't a 2D game push limits just like a 3D game?
2D games cant be ugly. They are sharp and perfected, and the camera always follow's.
We are still a long way from perfect 3D gaming. Some are getting close : Nintendo
Some are way off : SEGA
I dont see why Gaming needs to "evolve" and dump 2D games. I play Zero mission on my GBA and Prime on my NGC they are both great games so there is no need to choose between 2D or 3D.about the Castlevania series , the 3D installments are shit. The 2D versions like DOS are amazing. However there is no reason for Konami to choose between the two they can make another sequel on the DS , and they can improve the 3D game untill it has reached te level of the 2D games.
We are still a long way from perfect 3D gaming. Some are getting close : Nintendo
Some are way off : SEGA
I dont see why Gaming needs to "evolve" and dump 2D games. I play Zero mission on my GBA and Prime on my NGC they are both great games so there is no need to choose between 2D or 3D.about the Castlevania series , the 3D installments are shit. The 2D versions like DOS are amazing. However there is no reason for Konami to choose between the two they can make another sequel on the DS , and they can improve the 3D game untill it has reached te level of the 2D games.
WrathOfOtaibah
Banned
AdmiralViscen said:
1) I'm not a 2D hater.
2) I'm not saying 2D games shouldn't exist. My point is that some games are meant for 2D, some are for 3D. Gaming shouldn't be stuck behind because some games (platformers) can't be implemented correctly in 3D.
Hellraizah
Member
amodf said:
Tell me he didn't say that !!!!
Mr_Furious
Member
I can name a few franchises off the top of my head that didn't get it right when transfering to the 3rd dimension:chrysostom said:
Castlevania
Sonic
Street Fighter
King Of Fighters
I'm sure there are plenty (popular) others if just a little more thought was put into this question.
Exactly.jiji said: