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[Pepiope]

That is insane. Is it that hard to just wear a condom? Is there more to this that I'm missing?

The amount of gay men who grew up with homophobes constantly in their ear, whether it's family or the general public, can really screw with your mind. I want to believe this led to a mentality where men just don't care about their bodies as they didn't think anyone cared about them anyway.

If everyone around you treats you like the scum of the earth, can we really expect you to respect yourself and value life?

 

[Fuchsdh]

39% in some places, what.

What's the average for straight men in those areas?

78% of new infections in 2010 were gay people, i.e. 2–8% of the population, depending on the various polls. It's a pretty crazy number, though these 1 in 3 stats throw it into starker relief.

This is probably one of those areas where HIV being fairly cheap a disease to manage now, along with drugs that have a good chance of stopping transmission, and just going to continue to feed riskier behaviors. When it comes to sex, guys are idiots, news at 11.

The amount of gay men who grew up with homophobes constantly in their ear, whether it's family or the general public, can really screw with your mind. I want to believe this led to a mentality where men just don't care about their bodies as they didn't think anyone cared about them anyway.

If everyone around you treats you like the scum of the earth, can we really expect you to respect yourself and value life?

I really don't buy the idea that bad sexual health practices are the result of antagonism towards gay people, especially as the country has shifted on the issue of gay rights so dramatically. As sex researchers once put it, "[men] approached sex as they might a sandwich: good, bad, or mediocre, they were likely to grab it."

 

[How About No]

If I were gay I'd be asking for a doctors note or lab results days prior to any sort of physical encounter. Actually maybe thats a good idea anyway

 

[Captcha]

This is why I almost never did anal back when I was a hoe. I can't count the number of times some dude tried to pressure me into it.

 

[HStallion]

I still think one of the most despicable things I've seen on the internet was a group of people who would purposefully get infected and then go around having sex with people who wouldn't know that they're infected.

Sounds somewhat like the plot of the movie Red, White and Blue.

 

[Marky Mark]

The US only allows one size of condom. I wish I were kidding. It's a legitimate part of the problem.

Don't be stupid.

https://www.facebook.com/ABCiview/videos/1112858972070080/

 

[Ratrat]

The amount of gay men who grew up with homophobes constantly in their ear, whether it's family or the general public, can really screw with your mind. I want to believe this led to a mentality where men just don't care about their bodies as they didn't think anyone cared about them anyway.

If everyone around you treats you like the scum of the earth, can we really expect you to respect yourself and value life?

Nah, I dont think so. Its more a disregard for others than yourself.

 

[deejay8595]

This is why I almost never did anal back when I was a hoe. I can't count the number of times some dude tried to pressure me into it.

LOl what? Please explain...

 

[gerg]

I really don't buy the idea that bad sexual health practices are the result of antagonism towards gay people, especially as the country has shifted on the issue of gay rights so dramatically. As sex researchers once put it, "[men] approached sex as they might a sandwich: good, bad, or mediocre, they were likely to grab it."

I think this is a point worth emphasising.

Certainly, low self-esteem can encourage gay men to participate in riskier sexual behaviour (such as to include the use of drugs alongside sex), but I also think a culture of recreational sex that is especially high among gay men does a lot to explain these prevalence levels. That's not to say that teaching abstinence is exactly a solution either, but I think it's naive to suggest that gay men don't have a particularly high amount of casual sex.

I'd be curious to know how rates of STDs compare between gay men and other population groups.

 

[Lucario]

Don't be stupid.

https://www.facebook.com/ABCiview/videos/1112858972070080/

I'm pretty sure that if that were true 90% of gaf would have aids because of our mega dongs not fitting.

Yeah that's not true.

There's definitely more than one size, but the truth is almost as shitty - the legal range for condom width is 47mm to 57mm. This leads to condoms causing discomfort for a substantial number of men on either end of the scale.

It's a problem.

 

[HolySheep]

There's definitely more than one size, but the truth is almost as shitty - the legal range for condom width is 47mm to 57mm. This leads to condoms causing discomfort for a substantial number of men on either end of the scale.

It's a problem.

thats what i thought too. Given this thread:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1080440

Also just because it fits doesnt mean its comfortable, and it increases the chances of breakages

 

[ahoyhoy]

There's definitely more than one size, but the truth is almost as shitty - the legal range for condom width is 47mm to 57mm. This leads to condoms causing discomfort for a substantial number of men on either end of the scale.

It's a problem.

So stupid.

Is there any sort of reasoning behind this? Seems like the kind of shit that would actively discourage condom use

 

[Marky Mark]

Comfort vs HIV.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

LOl what? Please explain...

What, you never been a piece of garden equipment before, i thought we all have

 

[Khaz]

Is it though? In which direction? I mean, I seem to remember people putting them on their heads when i was a teenager. I always assumed the "x-large" ones (which you can buy in the UK) was purely a load of marketing tosh aimed at wankers.

Working with latex gloves every day, I know first hand (eh) that a glove not your size is very uncomfortable to wear. It either compresses your hand too much (and breaks), or wrinkles and prevents precise manipulation (and falls off). Just because it can inflate to insane sizes doesn't mean it's designed to work at that size. And I made lots of glove balloons.

Now imagine the effect of an incorrectly sized condom on your sensitive weiner.

Looking at numbers, you're right in saying Xlarge are marketing. They really are Xlong, which solves nothing but still allows the average dude with illusions of grandeur to wear them safely I suppose.

 

[HolySheep]

Comfort vs HIV.

or just buy bigger condoms? (at least for europeans). I am not gay so its not as risky for me, but i never drop the rubber unless i am in a relationship.

 

[kmfdmpig]

I would assume for straight men it's extremely low everywhere?

For the US overall these are the estimated new HIV infections in 2010:

MSM = gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men
from https://www.aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/hiv-aids-101/statistics/

(most straight males are not even on there because they only show populations that contribute to >2% of the total infected)

Given that the total heterosexual population is much larger but with far fewer infections, the percentage would be way in the <1% region in pretty much any region.

Since funding for treatment, prevention, and awareness is essentially a zero-sum game I wonder if the push to show that AIDS effects everyone, which is obviously true, but to a very different extent due to the transmission rate being so much higher for MSM, was somewhat counter-productive? Men get breast cancer, but shifting funds into awareness of that or prevention seems like a waste when it's so much more prevalent among women.

 

[Vazduh]

I really don't buy the idea that bad sexual health practices are the result of antagonism towards gay people, especially as the country has shifted on the issue of gay rights so dramatically. As sex researchers once put it, "[men] approached sex as they might a sandwich: good, bad, or mediocre, they were likely to grab it."

Exactly.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

The amount of gay men who grew up with homophobes constantly in their ear, whether it's family or the general public, can really screw with your mind. I want to believe this led to a mentality where men just don't care about their bodies as they didn't think anyone cared about them anyway.

If everyone around you treats you like the scum of the earth, can we really expect you to respect yourself and value life?

Yep, when you're terrified to let people even be aware of your sexuality, how can you be expected to gain access to knowledge of what can keep you safe? Public perception of gays and safe sex is getting better now but it could take decades before the damage is undone.

 

[HerrPalomar]

I worked in a HIV Clinic here in Germany. These numbers are not shocking for me. HIV still sadly is disease of gay and bisexual men (especially black men).

If you are straight, caucasian, male and middle class and sleep with caucasian females your chances of ever getting in sexual contact with a hiv infected person are basically slim to none.

If you are gay please please please do not trust your new partner. They so often lie. Always use a condom and only stop if you have a result from a test that was performed at least 6 month after you started your monogamic relationship.

As there seems to be no way to get gay men to wear condoms (there are so many god damn ad campaigns here but it just does not work)
I hope to that a wider availability of HIV-PrEP will lower these numbers.

As long as these numbers are so high. Gay people should still not be allowed to donate blood for example.

 

[SolidusDave]

Since funding for treatment, prevention, and awareness is essentially a zero-sum game I wonder if the push to show that AIDS effects everyone, which is obviously true, but to a very different extent due to the transmission rate being so much higher for MSM, was somewhat counter-productive? Men get breast cancer, but shifting funds into awareness of that or prevention seems like a waste when it's so much more prevalent among women.

You could be right, but this was (is) during the time in which the gay community had to fight against being outcasts of society. On paper your comparison with male breast cancer can be somewhat valid, but obviously there are no negative consequences for just pushing awareness for women. While on the other hand pushing MSM as being the "only" ones getting HIV could result in some serious social stigmata and slowing down acceptance etc.
However, yeah, maybe the awareness should have been more targeted to address the specific groups, but still avoiding mention that in non-targeted material for the general public.


In the graph you can see that (straight) women are much higher at risk than straight men. Which makes sense because closet MSM boyfriends/husbands will infect them and/or they are more likely to be at the receiving end of anal sex. Poverty (thus education about prevention etc.) is another factor as seen by the higher amount of black women.
I would guess the majority of the few non-black straight men in that statistic got infected from sharing needles (and possibly blood transfusions), which is an entire different thing to warn about.



Though maybe now is the time to scare people a bit. I mean, if a third or more of my dating pool were "contaminated", I would have to question how to have sex at all, even with protection.

 

[PotionBleue]

As there seems to be no way to get gay men to wear condoms (there are so many god damn ad campaigns here but it just does not work)

I find that finding appropriate condoms for safer oral sex (no lube, thin enough, flavoured or at least without a bad taste, available in large packs at a reasonable price) is difficult.

 

[kmfdmpig]

You could be right, but this was (is) during the time in which the gay community had to fight against being outcasts of society. On paper your comparison with male breast cancer can be somewhat valid, but obviously there are no negative consequences for just pushing awareness for women. While on the other hand pushing MSM as being the "only" ones getting HIV could result in some serious social stigmata and slowing down acceptance etc.
However, yeah, maybe the awareness should have been more targeted to address the specific groups, but still avoiding mention that in non-targeted material for the general public.


In the graph you can see that (straight) women are much higher at risk than straight men. Which makes sense because closet MSM boyfriends/husbands will infect them and/or they are more likely to be at the receiving end of anal sex. Poverty (thus education about prevention etc.) is another factor as seen by the higher amount of black women.
I would guess the majority of the few non-black straight men in that statistic got infected from sharing needles (and possibly blood transfusions), which is an entire different thing to warn about.



Though maybe now is the time to scare people a bit. I mean, if a third or more of my dating pool were "contaminated", I would have to question how to have sex at all, even with protection.

You're probably right that the stigma dictated the policies to some extent. It's unfortunate that homophobia, racism, politics, religion, social arguments, etc... get in the way of rational health care policy.

 

[The Lamp]

Why would there be a connection between shame and risky sexual behaviour?

You're more willing to do sexually risky things if it boosts your confidence or gets you something you think you otherwise wouldn't get.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

As long as these numbers are so high. Gay people should still not be allowed to donate blood for example.

Eh, I don't think so. Stating that gay people should not be allowed to donate blood is like saying that all gay people are HIV positive and no hetero guys are infected with the virus. Which is simply wrong.

What the question should ask is whether or not you had unprotected sex with a person who might (not is, might) be infected, no matter your sexual preferences - i.e. are you in the risk group. Because, lets be honest here, when you donate a blood no one will really check whether you're gay or straight; if you want to donate the blood (because you think the restriction is stupid and homophobic), nothing will stop you from simply lying. It's not like someone will research your sex life.

Yep, when you're terrified to let people even be aware of your sexuality, how can you be expected to gain access to knowledge of what can keep you safe? Public perception of gays and safe sex is getting better now but it could take decades before the damage is undone.

Oh c'mon. It's not 90s when you could learn about HIV and preventions from books, magazines or from your doctor. Even if you're deep in the closet, it's not really that hard to simply google things. Not to mention, "HIV = bad" and "unprotected sex with a stranger -> STD" is a basic (overly simplified, but still basic) knowledge. Dunno how sex-ed looks like in America nowadays, but it can't be worse than what we had in Poland when I was a kid (18 years ago or so), and even back then we were taught about STDs and preventions.

 

[MulderYuffie]

Not surprised one bit coming from a gay man you see this alot not even going around and looking for it. It's something very commonplace now as sad as that may be. I may play risky (while not in a relationship/or the current one I might add) and yeah it's my choice hell my 2nd longest lasting relationship was with someone living with HIV undetectable still there is a chance and we NEVER used protection and I was a bottom and i've played knowingly with 3+ others before very sexually free guy here as far as the last time I got checked I was negative. Would I knowingly give someone HIV? NO! but i'm not going to run in fear of it while anyone can get cancer and be dead in like 3 years that's scarier to me. I've accepted that one day i'll get it i'm not gonna worry about it there are alot of people with this mindset and i'm far from a "bug chaser" but these numbers are no shock and it'll only get worse until a cure happens I think.

 

[p_xavier]

As someone with HIV, I find it offensive that some people call out "homophobes" because they're stating facts. You have a much more higher chance of getting HIV if you're gay. It's a fact, not an homophobic statement! Thus from risk perspective, I have no issue at all to prevent my kind from donating blood.

 

[kirblar]

Don't be stupid.

https://www.facebook.com/ABCiview/videos/1112858972070080/

You and the others who say "it stretches, its fine", they're one size fits all are actively harmful and perpetuating myths that the status quo is ok. This is bad regulation that is lmost certainly a nonzero factor in some peoples decisions.

When they rolled out a condom program in India, guess what they found- they were too big! I know a guy who ws left with BB as basically his only option, because the pressure was too much (he was quite girthy) and he couldnt maintain an erection. Its not like he was stupid or ignorant, he was in medical research and 40. Just because you can get rubber stretched out over an inanimate object doesnt mean anything- inanimate objects arent having sex.

 

[Fury451]

If I were gay I'd be asking for a doctors note or lab results days prior to any sort of physical encounter. Actually maybe thats a good idea anyway

A friend of mine, before any long-term relationships, would get a STD blood test done, and request that his partner do the same. They'd both see hardcopies of the results. Always thought it was a good safe practice to do that.

I should probably mention that he never had sex with anyone before getting the results, and he wasn't in the short-term relationship. Or one night stand type thing so that never really came up.

 

[DR2K]

gurl

what

When I do something like get drunk and make a poor choice. I'm human and I make mistakes, which is why I'm on prep.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

A friend of mine, before any long-term relationships, would get a STD blood test done, and request that his partner do the same. They'd both see hardcopies of the results. Always thought it was a good safe practice to do that.

I should probably mention that he never had sex with anyone before getting the results, and he wasn't in the short-term relationship. Or one night stand type thing so that never really came up.

That IS good practice, but like you mention it isn't exactly effective with casual sex and one night stands. If that's you're thing, good luck getting documentation from some drunk person you just met at the club a couple hours ago. Ain't happening.

Problem with many STIs is that they're asymptomatic, so many people who have one aren't even aware they do. People need to get tested regularly, not only when symptoms begin to appear (if they ever do).

 

[Serick]

Not surprised one bit coming from a gay man you see this alot not even going around and looking for it. It's something very commonplace now as sad as that may be. I may play risky (while not in a relationship/or the current one I might add) and yeah it's my choice hell my 2nd longest lasting relationship was with someone living with HIV undetectable still there is a chance and we NEVER used protection and I was a bottom and i've played knowingly with 3+ others before very sexually free guy here as far as the last time I got checked I was negative. Would I knowingly give someone HIV? NO! but i'm not going to run in fear of it while anyone can get cancer and be dead in like 3 years that's scarier to me. I've accepted that one day i'll get it i'm not gonna worry about it there are alot of people with this mindset and i'm far from a "bug chaser" but these numbers are no shock and it'll only get worse until a cure happens I think.

This post gives me anxiety.

 

[adampa1006]

Not surprised one bit coming from a gay man you see this alot not even going around and looking for it. It's something very commonplace now as sad as that may be. I may play risky (while not in a relationship/or the current one I might add) and yeah it's my choice hell my 2nd longest lasting relationship was with someone living with HIV undetectable still there is a chance and we NEVER used protection and I was a bottom and i've played knowingly with 3+ others before very sexually free guy here as far as the last time I got checked I was negative. Would I knowingly give someone HIV? NO! but i'm not going to run in fear of it while anyone can get cancer and be dead in like 3 years that's scarier to me. I've accepted that one day i'll get it i'm not gonna worry about it there are alot of people with this mindset and i'm far from a "bug chaser" but these numbers are no shock and it'll only get worse until a cure happens I think.

Damn dude. Glad you are jacking up everyone's health care costs because you don't care about the drugs and expensive therapies you will need as the result of your unhealthy choices.

 

[kirblar]

Damn dude. Glad you are jacking up everyone's health care costs because you don't care about the drugs and expensive therapies you will need as the result of your unhealthy choices.

If someone's on treatment, the chances of transmission are actually very, very low.

The condom puritans surrounding Prep/treatment options are absolutely infuriating.

 

[FTF]

Holy shit, that number is staggering. Is the main thought process "we can't get pregnant so who cares about protection" ?? The risk of disease should be just as strong, if not stronger, than risk of pregnancy.

 

[kirblar]

Holy shit, that number is staggering. Is the main thought process "we can't get pregnant so who cares about protection" ?? The risk of disease should be just as strong, if not stronger, than risk of pregnancy.

It's poverty. HIV rate among straight people in DC is much higher than normal for the same reasons.

 

[Crayons]

You know what's really amazing, the fact that in every fucking HIV thread theres people mentioning "bugchasing" and how much of an epidemic it is in the gay community. Wow!!

Well guess fucking what. It's not a thing. So stop trying to make it a thing. It's as much as a thing as those news stories, "Kids using X to GET HIGH". The media sensationalizes things. It's what they do.

To prove my point, I searched new york city craigslist just now with "bug", "pos", "gift giver" and I found fucking nothing. In a city of 9 million, I couldn't find any of your so called bugchasers on CRAIGSLIST, which isn't exactly known to be top of the line for fucking strangers.

It's not a thing. Stop trying to make it a thing. I'm going to start looking at the usernames of the posters who keep posting this and trying to make it a thing.

 

[Netherscourge]

I can't really confirm this but...

Is it possible many sexually active people are LESS concerned now BECAUSE of the newer drugs on the market?

 

[metalslimer]

It's poverty. HIV rate among straight people in DC is much higher than normal for the same reasons.

Yeah there is also a lack of education in the risks and lack of information on the new prophylaxis medication.

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

What is bug chasing?

 

[kirblar]

I can't really confirm this but...

Is it possible many sexually active people are LESS concerned now BECAUSE of the newer drugs on the market?

Yes. If people are on treatment/PreP, then the biggest risk isn't HIV, its other STDs.

 

[Crayons]

What is bug chasing?

Seeking to contract HIV intentionally.

On loads of sites like GAF, Reddit, and 4chan its talked about all the time. But on gay sites, it's never mentioned. Even on anonymous sites like craiglist. Weird, isn't it? It's almost as if homophobes use this to try and paint gay people as insane. But that would never happen, right?

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

Seeking to contract HIV intentionally.

On loads of sites like GAF, Reddit, and 4chan its talked about all the time. But on gay sites, it's never mentioned. Even on anonymous sites like craiglist. Weird, isn't it?

Why would someone want it? I don't get it.

 

[ced]

What is bug chasing?

It's a thing.

 

[Abounder]

Worse odds than goddamn russian roulette, terrible. Dating apps makes sex so easy nowadays that healthcare needs to be just as free to balance it out

 

[Audioboxer]

What is bug chasing?

This is a documentary worth a watch, even if just to explain what it is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_tHrCFnrGs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gift_(2003_film)

 

[Necromanti]

I hate myself for harboring such an attitude, but I'm starting to become fed up with a certain contingent of the gay community. I can understand those who don't have the means of access to education being ignorant about the topic, but I'm finding it harder to have sympathy for those who are middle class or greater and voluntarily engage in risky behavior with little regard for anyone else (or people who actively seek to get infected). The mindset that it's an inevitability and that it would be preferable to just "get it over with" is repugnant to me.

 

[R10Neymarfan]

Worse odds than goddamn russian roulette, terrible. Dating apps makes sex so easy nowadays that healthcare needs to be just as free to balance it out

Agreed. While some places have free testing and treatment, they don't test for everything and STD testing and treatment is expensive if you want to test and treat for everything especially for MSM who need to get a bit more thorough in some places. For some that are poor or in the closet it could be hard for that.

Also had having an STD makes it easier to get HIV and STD rates for stuff like Syphilis and Herpes (which makes it way easier to seroconvert) are high.

Not surprised one bit coming from a gay man you see this alot not even going around and looking for it. It's something very commonplace now as sad as that may be. I may play risky (while not in a relationship/or the current one I might add) and yeah it's my choice hell my 2nd longest lasting relationship was with someone living with HIV undetectable still there is a chance and we NEVER used protection and I was a bottom and i've played knowingly with 3+ others before very sexually free guy here as far as the last time I got checked I was negative. Would I knowingly give someone HIV? NO! but i'm not going to run in fear of it while anyone can get cancer and be dead in like 3 years that's scarier to me. I've accepted that one day i'll get it i'm not gonna worry about it there are alot of people with this mindset and i'm far from a "bug chaser" but these numbers are no shock and it'll only get worse until a cure happens I think.

I do agree somewhat with MulderYuffie, the mathematically you have to try to get HIV. Between if you give or receive. If you partake in intercourse. And how many partners you decided to fuck bareback. You have to be somewhat deliberate in that rather than making a slip up mistake once. In fact it may be safer to have sex with a known undetectable person rather than a random person that claims negative. Though I still wouldn't take the chance since there is a chance and rates are rising so...the math changes a bit.

 

[kirblar]

In fact it may be safer to have sex with a known undetectable person rather than a random person that claims negative.

It is.

 

[dream]

You know what's really amazing, the fact that in every fucking HIV thread theres people mentioning "bugchasing" and how much of an epidemic it is in the gay community. Wow!!

Well guess fucking what. It's not a thing. So stop trying to make it a thing. It's as much as a thing as those news stories, "Kids using X to GET HIGH". The media sensationalizes things. It's what they do.

To prove my point, I searched new york city craigslist just now with "bug", "pos", "gift giver" and I found fucking nothing. In a city of 9 million, I couldn't find any of your so called bugchasers on CRAIGSLIST, which isn't exactly known to be top of the line for fucking strangers.

It's not a thing. Stop trying to make it a thing. I'm going to start looking at the usernames of the posters who keep posting this and trying to make it a thing.

But, as Tim Dean points out, bugchasing is a thing; he argues that it's a sexual identity that is predicated on emotional connections. Dean's quantitative research suggests that it's a small, clandestine community, which might explain why Craigslist searches come up empty.