Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
I'm with everyone who says that circumcision is not comparable, although it does reduce sensitivity/pleasure slightly. I don't think it's a good thing, but it's not remotely similar in impact.
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50,000 women in Germany have suffered genital mutilation: report
- Thread starter chillybright
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Langdon Alger
Banned
There is no male equivalent. Are you suggesting that circimcision is as bad as female genital mutilation?
Yeah this thread isn't really the place to discuss circumcision. It's neither a comparable practice nor does it have the same patriarchal connotation. And the data in the OP doesn't talk about it either. Pure distraction to change the subject.
jellies_two
Member
Is this demonize refugee day or something ? Don't answer that, it's super obvious.
Anyone who listens on the BBC knows all about FGM and also can support causes to rid the world of It through education. In Africa, where it is most common.
Brietbart putting in the time, spreading the horror, linking it to European refugees, impressing people with the memory of a mayfly.
Anyone who listens on the BBC knows all about FGM and also can support causes to rid the world of It through education. In Africa, where it is most common.
Brietbart putting in the time, spreading the horror, linking it to European refugees, impressing people with the memory of a mayfly.
I saw this response coming from a mile away.
Lots of practices not specified in the Koran are nevertheless related to Islam. Like wearing a burqa. You can try to distance yourself from it, but the fact is that fgm has been adopted by many Muslims. We could debate all day if it's really a Muslim thing or just something which happily overlaps with the Muslim faith as practised by millions of African Muslims but the the bottom line is: fgm is utterly unacceptable to the Western world.
Sunster
Member
And no one is debating that. Argument over.
SolidChamp
Banned
Yeah, we were at a huge impasse on the whole "do we circumcise him?" thing with our son.
Even though I'm from Canada, and circumcised myself, I ultimately decided that it just didn't make a whole of of sense to beyond general hygiene, which is a non-issue if you teach them to keep themselves clean.
So, yeah, this whole thing is kind of bonkers to me.
Why the fuck would people do this to their own daughter?
Because of sexual control over women. FGM's purpose isn't hygienic, it's to destroy even the possibility of female promiscuity; the clitoris is removed to prevent pleasure from sex, the labia are sewn to ensure that she can only urinate and never even think about masturbating, etc. Also it makes it "easy" to make sure that they stay virgins until marriage.
That, btw, is why it's so insanely stupid to compare this with male circumcision.
jellies_two
Member
It's a tribal thing a cultural norm for a long time it's also a business and it needs to be stopped and there are any number of charities one could give to or work for.
But you know I look at some kids in America that are obese and heading for a shorter life fighting diabetes and their moms are pushing carts loaded with huge discount soda bottles and sugar cereals and I think "why the fuck would people do this to their own daughter"
It isn't even totally clear to me which is worse or more ignorant, and I am not joking about that, childhood obesity can be debilitating for decades and losing ones ability to enjoy sex along with the trauma of the event is debilitating too. Do people want to score these things and meter out punishments or work to fix them ?
Right. If you want to compare FGM to male circumcision, we'd have to expand male circumcision to the removal of the glans. In some cases, it would be like removing the entire penis.
jellies_two
Member
And that, of course, is the idea, today and going forward is "link evil to immigrants/refugee/foreigner news day"
Further to this reply, I'd argue that Muslims are very much an integral fabric of the Western world now and Muslim issues tend to dominate western conversation; moreover, I'd add that Muslims are very much so part of the solution. I know the Muslim Council of Britain for instance tried an active grass roots campaign to help with this issue in the UK.
Count Dookkake
Member
Molestation isn't as bad as rape amirite?
If we were strongly against the former, maybe it would be easier to fight the latter.
If we were strongly against the former, maybe it would be easier to fight the latter.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Its crazy, because in some countries like Somalia, it against the law and will land you jail time.
Some of these people are ignorant as fuck. FGM in many cultures is also a thing women tend to view as passing on to their daughters. The only way to eradicate it is for men to take a stronger stand and say they will not marry women who have undergone forced FGM.
Some of these people are ignorant as fuck. FGM in many cultures is also a thing women tend to view as passing on to their daughters. The only way to eradicate it is for men to take a stronger stand and say they will not marry women who have undergone forced FGM.
astroturfing
Member
yeah this is a tradition that needs to die.
we as Westerners need to be careful how we criticize it though, just yelling "barbaric!!" won't help, and might be counter-productive. we need to sit the people down who want to do FGM and calmly explain to them why it's not needed and why it's wrong. as many times as it takes.
we as Westerners need to be careful how we criticize it though, just yelling "barbaric!!" won't help, and might be counter-productive. we need to sit the people down who want to do FGM and calmly explain to them why it's not needed and why it's wrong. as many times as it takes.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
This needs to be cracked down on HARD. Fuck your cultural or religious beliefs in this matter, you do NOT get to do this barbaric shit to your children.
Male circumcision needs to die as well.
Haunted
Member
Harsh but true.
There are simply incompabilities between the cultural practices of the mentioned countries (Eritrea, Somalia, Egypt, Ethiopia, Iraq) and German society and I fully support these being illegal in Germany. Doing something like this to your children is sufficient grounds to get thrown out of the country, imo. This barbaric bullshit has no place in our society. Everyone wanting to live here and enjoying the benefits and opportunities of German society has to agree to a common set of ground rules (i.e. the constitution and our laws).
Palette Swap
Member
FGM is so disgusting.
I'm curious to see if that approach will work (I hope it does, obviously).
No, not as bad - but bad nonetheless.
The male foreskin is a godsend for fapping and makes entry during intercourse a lot easier.
Gun Animal
Member
Either of these would permanently prevent reproductive sex. Is there a variation of FGM that permanently prevents reproductive sex?
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I assume that a significant part of the number stems from refugees.
Germany takes in refugees because their lives are in danger in their home countries.
Even if we had mandatory this and that, what do we do to enforce these things? We can't send these people back. And taking away childrens parents(to put them in prison) in a country where they know nobody, not even the language, is also not that great.
Which is the definition of not equivalent.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Its a regional thing. Countries in the Horn of Africa have been doing it since before Islam.
TheWasTheJoke
Member
Wow I never knew FGM was so bad, that's seriously fucked up..
Also lol being circumcised isn't that bad and I can't see any comparism between the two
Also lol being circumcised isn't that bad and I can't see any comparism between the two
There's only one rational response to FGM and that is sticking people who insist on doing it into the Big House to meditate on their crimes.
It's the definition of barbarism, oppression, and cruelty in the name of 'culture'. I bet if culture demanded men's dicks were to be chopped in half, tradition would go the way of the dodo.
It's the definition of barbarism, oppression, and cruelty in the name of 'culture'. I bet if culture demanded men's dicks were to be chopped in half, tradition would go the way of the dodo.
But that statement is only true if the practice exists across religious groups in the region. Honour killings are common among Christian groups in these regions as well, so I agree with you there.
I suppose that's a valid argument. Still wondering about the prevalence outside of the local Muslim communities though.
Gun Animal
Member
As long as we're trying to quantify this---If female genital mutilation is an 8/10 on the scale of bad things, (leaving room for honor killings, genocide, etc) where is circumcision? 6/10?
Chuckie
Member
It is a pre-Islamic tradition, but that doesn't mean there isn't an Islamic influence to this tradition. Otherwise why the fuck would they do it in Indonesia of all places?
It is pre-Islamic, but the fact it is considered 'noble' in the hadith has made the tradition way more wide-spread.
FGM is a horrible practice, but it's ridiculous to conclude based on it that immigrants should be turned away. Consider the following scenarios:
A) A newlywed couple seeks immigration to Germany. They make it in, have a daughter. They proceed to have said daughter mutilated in this manner, through whatever means.
B) The same newlywed couple is denied immigration to Germany. They have a daughter; they have her mutilated.
The important thing to note is that scenario B didn't prevent anything bad from happening. Letting immigrants into your country isn't going to end FGM. If you care about the victim of FGM, that daughter? Where do you think she'll have the better life?
And of course, there's the scenario where they come to Germany and don't have their daughter mutilated, either because they can't find a shady back-alley provider or because their experience with Western culture has caused them to re-think certain customs. Not to mention what happens twenty-five years down the line, where the daughter is having children of her own.
FGM is terrible, and I fully support measures to curb it. Turning immigrants away doesn't do that. Letting immigrants in can.
TheRedSnifit
Member
2/10 I guess? Why are we ranking badness?
Circumcision is done for hygenic reasons. You could (correctly) argue that it's no longer necessary, but at its roots it provides an actual benefit and is done for practical purposes.
Female genital mutilation is done for the express purpose of making sex painful for women so they don't like it.
I don't know why you'd think these are remotely comparable.
Unless you have a problem with your foreskin and need to have it removed, because there are medical reasons for getting it removed as an adult with your own consent.
As I personally know.
Absolutely unacceptable!
Wrong. Well the first thing about FGM is correct of course, but he rest is bullshit. It plays a massive, for some integral part in sexual pleasure. I'm not sure I'd be able to cum without it to be honest. Glans stimulation in itself does very little for me.
Wrong. Well the first thing about FGM is correct of course, but he rest is bullshit. It plays a massive, for some integral part in sexual pleasure. I'm not sure I'd be able to cum without it to be honest. Glans stimulation in itself does very little for me.
That's right.
Alex_Mexico
Member
If anyone here is for real arguing that Female Genital Mutilation (the removal of the clitoris) is the same thing as circumcision you're clinically stupid. Like, objectively stupid.
Gun Animal
Member
That's way too low, my dude. I'd rather lose my legs than my foreskin---at least I can replace those!
what does this tell you about my lifestyle?
No it isn't.
No it's not.
Male Circumcision originated as a way of reducing pleasure and preventing masturbation.
Phimosis? I had that as a kid. In the vast majority of cases you can wait it out or pursue alternatives to circumcision.
Why do all FGM topics seem to derail into Male circumcision. If you are really invested in that topic, make a thread... please.
As an individual whose heritage comes from one of the countries listed, I can't stress how much education is key here.
I can't see anyway to combat millenia old pagan traditions ingrained into the tapestry of a culture.
Education, specifically involving Sex Ed & Health is so vital and not something we should pretend doesn't have an effect.
It may not help those from the older generation that are too heavily invested in their culture but it will have a profound effect on the younger generation.
That's my two cents anyways...
As an individual whose heritage comes from one of the countries listed, I can't stress how much education is key here.
I can't see anyway to combat millenia old pagan traditions ingrained into the tapestry of a culture.
Education, specifically involving Sex Ed & Health is so vital and not something we should pretend doesn't have an effect.
It may not help those from the older generation that are too heavily invested in their culture but it will have a profound effect on the younger generation.
That's my two cents anyways...
fabricated backlash
Member
What gets me the most is that it's primarily women perpetuating this horrific practice.
Uah, just thinking about the procedure is making me want to strangle the monsters involved.
Uah, just thinking about the procedure is making me want to strangle the monsters involved.
TheWasTheJoke
Member
You're being ridiculous
I saw this response coming from a mile away.
Lots of practices not specified in the Constitution are nevertheless related to USA. Like racism. You can try to distance yourself from it, but the fact is that racism has been adopted by many Americans. We could debate all day if it's really a American thing or just something which happily overlaps with the Patriotic spirit as practised by millions of Americans but the the bottom line is: racism is utterly unacceptable to the world.
Am I doing this right?
Chuckie
Member
Do the US have something comparible as the hadith in Islam? And if so is racism considered noble in that? If so you could debate that it is indeed comparable.
Like said before. It is pre-Islamic, but Islam has had an influence on it. Otherwise I have no clue as why FGM is practized in Indonesia.
Gun Animal
Member
there's no substance here so i'll respond to your earlier post
Why would there be so many communities and support groups devoted to coping with circumcision, and a whole market dedicated to foreskin restoration (which is unfortunately a pipe dream) if it wasn't that bad?
If y'all by chance ever meet a muslim who supports FGM, ask them if it's for hygiene/medical purposes or if they just love oppressing women. Their answer may shock you!
Got it sorted out in my late twenties, I wasn't in the vast majority :<
Gun Animal
Member
I see, fortunately there's a lot of girls (a vast majority in the U.S., even) who strongly prefer cut guys so nothing to frown about. My point is that medical circumcision is only necessary for around 7 in 10,000 boys. However, a lot of doctors are too eager for the nuclear option. this isn't just a problem with circumcision, but tonsillectomies and the like as well.
Blackthorn
"hello?" "this is vagina"
Good job turning a thread about female genital mutilation into a thread about men.
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