6 years since the PS2's initial unveiling this week..

G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
..and the mind inevitably turns towards the PS3 and the possibility for a similar announcement in the coming month (based on a mix of historical precedent, the timeline Sony previously announced for next-gen announcements/events, and SCEA's confirmation that the PS3 would be shown before E3). PS2 was unveiled on March 2 - should we expect a PS3 announcement so soon in the month aswell? I know a few GAFFERs in Japan and elsewhere have an ear to the ground with regards to these matters, and would know if something was about to go down - so, any word on when this PS3 announcement might happen? How far in advance would you expect to be notified of such an announcement before it was due to take place?

I hope March is eventful... :)
 
Whenever Sony decides to do the official announcement I still hope the PS3 doesn't come out until late 2006 at the earliest, as long as it's backward compatible.
 
I still sometimes wonder if the Dreamcast forced Sony to announce the PS2 sooner than it had originally planned.

I also sometimes wonder if the Dreamcast helped to rush the design of the PS2 just a little bit.
 
evil ways said:
Whenever Sony decides to do the official announcement I still hope the PS3 doesn't come out until late 2006 at the earliest, as long as it's backward compatible.
Click to expand...


PS2 backwards compatibility- YES PS1 backwards compatibility- NO.
 
PS2 backwards compatibility- YES PS1 backwards compatibility- NO.
Click to expand...

Why not? Didn't Sony buy that emulator company? It wouldn't surprise me if PS1 emulation was completely done in software on PS3.
 
Rob said:
I still sometimes wonder if the Dreamcast forced Sony to announce the PS2 sooner than it had originally planned.

I also sometimes wonder if the Dreamcast helped to rush the design of the PS2 just a little bit.
Click to expand...

I also sometimes wonder if those Penis enlarger emails I get work.
 
teiresias said:
Why not? Didn't Sony buy that emulator company? It wouldn't surprise me if PS1 emulation was completely done in software on PS3.
Click to expand...

But the emulator was far from being perfect,even with the PSX original CPU included in the PS2 the compatibility isn't 100%,I really doubt Sony will put money and time providing a perfect Psone compatibility through an emulator.
I think they will include the 90nm EE+GS chip as the IO precessor granting PS2 compatibility only.
 
Rob reminds me of why I fucking hate junior members...if you are going to post your opinion or expert analasys then try to show that in your post. You're a gamer, not anyone with any real information, so don't post as if you have.

edit: spelling
 
Rob said:
I still sometimes wonder if the Dreamcast forced Sony to announce the PS2 sooner than it had originally planned.

I also sometimes wonder if the Dreamcast helped to rush the design of the PS2 just a little bit.
Click to expand...


...You wonder about dumb things.
 
Ah, I remember printing out the IGN article on PS2 and taking it to school...simultaneously awe struck over the specs, and worried/pissed over what it meant for my dear Dreamcast's future....good times.
 
Why not? Didn't Sony buy that emulator company? It wouldn't surprise me if PS1 emulation was completely done in software on PS3.
Click to expand...

The PS2 emulated the PS1 via software,so I expect the same with the PS3.
 
Andrew2 said:
The PS2 emulated the PS1 via software,so I expect the same with the PS3.
Click to expand...


not quite...the PS2 uses a chip from the PS1 to handle it's I/O if I remember correctly...maybe the CPU Elios83 mentioned
 
Rob:
I also sometimes wonder if the Dreamcast helped to rush the design of the PS2 just a little bit.
Click to expand...
Considering Sony's Graphic Synthesizer missed its target manufacturing process and shipped at the larger 250nm size, it was definitely rushed, and that was even after the launch date had been pushed back from holiday 1999.
 
not quite...the PS2 uses a chip from the PS1 to handle it's I/O if I remember correctly...maybe the CPU Elios83 mentioned

The PS2 uses the I/O one for reason,to support older devices. The PS2 essentially contain legacy devices.
 
Elios83 said:
I think they will include the 90nm EE+GS chip as the IO precessor granting PS2 compatibility only.
Click to expand...
Games running on PS2 hardware "require" IOP (PS1 cpu) to work. No PS1 CPU, no hardware PS2 compatibility.

For that matter, sound chip will not emulate itself either - PS2 used PS1 sound (along with the identical CPU->Sound setup) so that was never an issue, but I kinda doubt PS3 will still come with sound solution 12 years old (or if it does, some people at Sony are clearly loosing it).

Actually when you think about it, this kind of bw compatibility doesn't come cheap at ALL - we're looking at 3chips + 4MB worth of ram modules for IOP/SPUmem (I'll assume EE can use XDR in some kind of compatibility mode for now).

Andrew said:
not quite...the PS2 uses a chip from the PS1 to handle it's I/O if I remember correctly...maybe the CPU Elios83 mentioned
Click to expand...
Actually CPU & Sound are completely in hardware, some parts of the CPU->GPU communication are emulated IIRC, but GS also has some backward compatibility modes to accomodate old PS1 GPU features (like 8bit display).
 
Ahh yes... wasn't the announcement called 'the DeathStar' or something crazy like that. I wish I went to GAF at the time, I would've loved to see the chaos.
 
Fafalada said:
Games running on PS2 hardware "require" IOP (PS1 cpu) to work. No PS1 CPU, no hardware PS2 compatibility.

For that matter, sound chip will not emulate itself either - PS2 used PS1 sound (along with the identical CPU->Sound setup) so that was never an issue, but I kinda doubt PS3 will still come with sound solution 12 years old (or if it does, some people at Sony are clearly loosing it).

Actually when you think about it, this kind of bw compatibility doesn't come cheap at ALL - we're looking at 3chips + 4MB worth of ram modules for IOP/SPUmem (I'll assume EE can use XDR in some kind of compatibility mode for now).


Actually CPU & Sound are completely in hardware, some parts of the CPU->GPU communication are emulated IIRC, but GS also has some backward compatibility modes to accomodate old PS1 GPU features (like 8bit display).
Click to expand...

I see,so at this point it's not that easy to have hardware based backwards compatibility,costs could be a real problem.
More over I don't think the PS3 will use the same slot for memory cards and controllers.
I expect Sony to replace them with memory sticks and a wireless integrated receiver.
So also save games could be an issue.
Ummm we'll see what happens.
 
Well it could always be possible to integrate it all on a single chip I guess. Though I am not too convinced they'll go for full hw solution yet :P
The controller issue could be solved with having adapters for old DualShocks and memory cards perhaps.
 
Fafalada said:
Games running on PS2 hardware "require" IOP (PS1 cpu) to work. No PS1 CPU, no hardware PS2 compatibility.
Click to expand...

1107869831_622.jpg


2PE + EE + GS + PS1 CPU + 4MB RAM :D

Fredi
 
teiresias said:
Did anyone actually figure out if that's actually what the extra stuff is on the wafer?
Click to expand...

I think it's being guessed that it's testing logic - it wouldn't be there on production wafers.
 
Elios83 said:
A testing logic for a 2 Cell setup?? :D
Click to expand...

Doesn't mean they're being tested to work together ;) Even if it was, it doesn't say anything about how near or far such configurations in commercial products are. Undoubtedly they are testing multi-PE configs, but that's probably not ready for primetime (or won't be in 2006 - at least not in living room electronics).

Who knows for sure what that logic is, though...
 
gofreak said:
Who knows for sure what that logic is, though...
Click to expand...

What really puzzles me is the amount of extra logic, so much just to test something seems a bit unbelievable ... anyway, I'm sure that we will soon know more.

Fredi
 
yup. March 2, 1999. I really was not expecting such an event back then. pretty impressive at the time. heh, it was the next month that I bought an Dreamcast, asia version without a modem, and VF3tb from the local import shop.
 
and what a glorious 6 years its been. The PS2 is an incredible console on the basis of its impressive catalogue. Love it. Can someone please link that visual upgrade post someone posted a while back? I actually did a search but couldn't find it. The GAF pages only had 16 pages? What happens to older posts?
 
Lazy8s said:
Rob:

Considering Sony's Graphic Synthesizer missed its target manufacturing process and shipped at the larger 250nm size, it was definitely rushed, and that was even after the launch date had been pushed back from holiday 1999.
Click to expand...

yeah.

this time though, it at least *appears* that PS3's GPU is being worked on, late into the development of PS3. unlike the GS of PS2. even though GS was rushed, its feature set was old. locked down in 1997 from what I hear. it seems PS3's Nvidia GPU is a newer design, relative to PS2's GS. Nvidia said that they should have silicon (PS3 GPU) by late 2005.


as for PS1 compatibility in PS3, why not include an ENTIRE PS2 chipset in PS3. EE+GS+PS1 CPU ? certainly it wouldn't require hardly any space at 65nm.
 
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