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[Royal_Phalanx]

Six out of 10 Britons want to keep their European Union citizenship after Brexit – including the rights to live, work, study and travel in the EU – and many would be prepared to pay large sums to do so, according to research led by the London School of Economics.

Support for retaining the rights is particularly strong among 18- to 24-year-olds, 85% of whom want to retain their EU citizenship in addition to their British citizenship. Around 80% of people living in London also want to maintain the same rights.

Bruter said the research showed that young people in particular were “very unhappy” at the prospect of losing rights they regarded as fundamental and crucial to their future prospects. “They would paradoxically be willing to pay far more than they currently do [compared with the current per capita contribution to the EU budget made by UK citizens] to retain those rights,” he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/01/poll-european-eu-rights-brexit

Presumably part of this 60% includes Leave voters. Don't know what else they were expecting here other than to lose rights. My sympathies only really stretch to the people who never wanted this who now face having their rights curtailed. Ending free movement of workers from the EU to the UK has very real consequences for your own citizens as well, don't know if they really knew that they couldn't have their cake and eat it.

 

[VegiHam]

I want this.

I don't think I can have it. I'm not sure it's reasonable to ask for it. But I want it.

 

[BahamutPT]

So... Leave but accept the four pillars and join the EEA?

 

[Azuran]

Too bad what the majority wants doesn't mean much these days.

 

[pswii60]

I want this.

I don't think I can have it. I'm not sure it's reasonable to ask for it. But I want it.

Of course it's reasonable to ask, if you voted to Remain. The rest of Europe is pretty much asking it of the UK.

It's polls like this that baffle me why Theresa is ploughing forward with a hard Brexit, especially when she herself was/is a Remainer. Why be so stubborn in forcing something forward that you don't even yourself believe in?

So... Leave but accept the four pillars and join the EEA?

The four pillars cross Theresa's red lines. So it can't happen, if she continues on her current path.

 

[Sean C]

Many people favour having their cake and eating it too.

Too bad what the majority wants doesn't mean much these days.

Hey, they had a choice to express their wishes, in the referendum. That many of them were dumbasses about it is on them.

 

[WorldofMiku]

You can't have the cake and eat it too, Leavers. :/

 

[30yearsofhurt]

Should have voted like it was at stake to lose.

 

[Fox Mulder]

.

 

[Delusibeta]

It's polls like this that baffle me why Theresa is ploughing forward with a hard Brexit, especially when she herself was/is a Remainer. Why be so stubborn in forcing something forward that you don't even yourself believe in?

The four pillars cross Theresa's red lines. So it can't happen, if she continues on her current path.

Probably because Labour is also in favour of ending freedom of movement (which will inevitably result in getting kicked out of the common market and therefore resulting in Hard Brexit).

 

[Izuna]

The 40% that don't?

Are they spiteful to themselves or something?

 

[superdeluxe]

Should have voted to remain

 

[Generalpsyduck]

 

[Goofalo]

We all have regrets, I mean, I bet a fair number of Americans are rethinking the wisdom of Brexit 1776.

 

[Mivey]

Eating your EU cake and having it too.

 

[Savitar]

60% should have voted to remain in the EU then.

 

[Nivash]

Maybe 8% of Britons shouldn't have voted leave then

 

[plagiarize]

I looked up to check I could get an Irish passport the other day. Fortunately I can.

 

[Tyaren]

Should have voted like it was at stake to lose.

I wonder how many British actually really knew what the EU is, how it works and what it did for them. Is the EU on the curriculum in schools there?

 

[VegiHam]

Should have voted like it was at stake to lose.

Should have voted to remain

I did.

Should I now not want to keep the citizenship I've had since I was born because 52% of people are idiots who disagreed?

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

So... Leave but accept the four pillars and join the EEA?

Most people voted for Brexit because they wanted to get rid of the four pillars, mainly free movement. (Note: They obviously thought about the free movement foreigners have, they didn't think being against that would also mean that they will their own lose free movement
within the EU, too.)

Leaving the EU but keeping the four pillars would be a middle ground that would leave Leavers and Remainers unhappy.

It would basically just means that Britain would have to pay a lot of money, loses its influence on EU regulations, but still has to abide by it and has to negotiate new trade deals with the entire world.

All that while still not getting any of the things the Brexiters campaigned with.


Bottom line is... Brexit was incredibly stupid. No one who voted for it actually thought it through.

The smartest thing the UK could do right now is to

 

[Mivey]

I did.

Should I now not want to keep the citizenship I've had since I was born because 52% of people are idiots who disagreed?

There is nothing for you to keep. Citzenship of the EU is a virtual thing, you get it by being part of the EU. Quite a few people who voted for Brexit seem to be rather misinformed or have simply changed their mind, which also hints that it wasn't a very informed decision. Either way, you should direct your misgivings at them.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Six out of ten?! Wow! With those numbers they could have voted to remain.

 

[VegiHam]

There is nothing for you to keep. Citzenship of the EU is a virtual thing, you get it by being part of the EU. Quite a few people who voted for Brexit seem to be rather misinformed or have simply changed their mind, which also hints that it wasn't a very informed decision. Either way, you should direct your misgivings at them.

Nah I'd rather direct it at the smug drive by posters telling me I deserve to be trapped in this slowmo trainwreck nightmare for, what, not casting 3 million votes when I went to the polls.

I mean I don't go into threads about Americans losing healthcare, post "shoulda voted for hillary then" and leave.

 

[WorldofMiku]

I voted remain, don't put me in the same bucket as the leavers.

The smartest thing the UK could do right now is to

Is to......?


(lol)

 

[RangerX]

Of course it's reasonable to ask, if you voted to Remain. The rest of Europe is pretty much asking it of the UK.

It's polls like this that baffle me why Theresa is ploughing forward with a hard Brexit, especially when she herself was/is a Remainer. Why be so stubborn in forcing something forward that you don't even yourself believe in.

She can't plough forward with a hard brexit anyway more though. Her authority has been completely undermined and pro European cabinet ministers and backbenchers won't let her. It's still going to be a complete shitshow mind.

 

[Gin-Shiio]

Everyone wants democracy, but no one wants to partake in it. Then people whine when things didn't turn out the way they wanted. As someone who goes vote whenever presented the opporunity, this will never cease being upsetting.

 

[Abstrusity]

What a shame. Some day, generations hence, they will look back on this time through ancient magazines and books, about a time when they had a royal family and democracy instead of feudalist mad max hellscape. They'd pass stories about the monarch at the time. Some say he could drive so fast he could scale buildings. Some say he is his own third cousin. All they would know is that he was called The Stig.

 

[Tyaren]

Bottom line is... Brexit was incredibly stupid. No one who voted for it actually thought it through.

The smartest thing the UK could do right now is to

To...? Come on, don't leave us hanging here. XD

 

[Nostremitus]

Then 60% of Britons should have voted to Stay in the EU...

 

[BahamutPT]

Most people voted for Brexit because they wanted to get rid of the four pillars, mainly free movement. (Note: They obviously thought about the free movement foreigners have, they didn't think being against that would also mean that they will their own lose free movement
within the EU, too.)

Leaving the EU but keeping the four pillars would be a middle ground that would leave Leavers and Remainers unhappy.

It would basically just means that Britain would have to pay a lot of money, loses its influence on EU regulations, but still has to abide by it and has to negotiate new trade deals with the entire world.

All that while still not getting any of the things the Brexiters campaigned with.


Bottom line is... Brexit was incredibly stupid. No one who voted for it actually thought it through.

The smartest thing the UK could do right now is to

Oh of course, I'm aware of that. I wanted that to read as indignation, but was on mobile and should have worded it a bit better :/

Basically those who voted Leave but now want all those rights just don't want to reciprocate. Which isn't a surprise in itself, but the hypocrisy still annoys me.

 

[Mivey]

Nah I'd rather direct it at the smug drive by posters telling me I deserve to be trapped in this slowmo trainwreck nightmare for, what, not casting 3 million votes when I went to the polls.

I mean I don't go into threads about Americans losing healthcare, post "shoulda voted for hillary then" and leave.

You can fight with people who are being smug, but that's not gonna change anything. It seems a lot of people in Britain don't really understand the consequences of their actions. By engaging people you might at least get them to acknowledge what they are facing and stir the train to a halt, or at least slow it down a bit, to give people a chance to jump of (it's your metaphor, I'm trying to work with it).
That's not a likely outcome, I'll grant you that, people are stubborn and unwilling to face reality, but it would seem a bit more productive than just countering people smugly shitposting on GAF.

 

[Saint Gregory]

This situation reminds me so much of the (manufactured) health care crisis here in the USA. Millions of ignorant people rallying for the ACA to be repealed for 8 years without actually understanding the ramifications.

Is it really to late for the UK to change course on Brexit?

 

[aeolist]

Presumably part of this 60% includes Leave voters. Don't know what else they were expecting here other than to lose rights.

enough people have been interviewed in the days before and after the vote to explain this thoroughly. many thought after a lifetime of voting for political promises and seeing their lives go to shit anyway that their vote literally didn't matter. others simply hate the political class and wanted to take a huge dump on them in the only way they could.

it wasn't all or even most of them (i'd imagine open racism and xenophobia was the primary predictor of a leave vote), but it was enough to swing the tally. same as here in the US.

 

[VegiHam]

You can fight with people who are being smug, but that's not gonna change anything. It seems a lot of people in Britain don't really understand the consequences of their actions. By engaging people you might at least get them to acknowledge what they are facing and stir the train to a halt, or at least slow it down a bit, to give people a chance to jump of (it's your metaphor, I'm trying to work with it).
That's not a likely outcome, I'll grant you that, people are stubborn and unwilling to face reality, but it would seem a bit more productive than just countering people smugly shitposting on GAF.

Urggh but that sounds like hard work man. Why bother when picking fights on the internet is instant gratification?

 

[sirap]

Sucks for those who voted against it. Hey, at least you're not the only ones to suffer because the other half of your country consists of racist idiots.

 

[Machina]

Dat Brexit regret

 

[Nydius]

This situation reminds me so much of the (manufactured) health care crisis here in the USA. Millions of ignorant people rallying for the ACA to be repealed for 8 years without actually understanding the ramifications.

Is it really to late for the UK to change course on Brexit?

From my understanding of it, yes. May invoked Article 50 and had the official letter delivered to EU by the British Ambassador. The metaphorical train has left the station and with the way the leave camp burned every bridge during their campaign - essentially shit talking every other country in the EU - I doubt anyone in the EU would be very sympathetic to a "oops, we fucked up, can we take it back please?" plea.

Edit:
After reading some other articles on it, it appears I'm incorrect and the UK Supreme Court ruled that Article 50 isn't explicitly final and Parliament could, at a future date, decide to abandon Brexit and stay within the EU. But the likelihood of that happening is probably pretty slim for reasons BahamutPT outlined below.

 

[aeolist]

I mean I don't go into threads about Americans losing healthcare, post "shoulda voted for hillary then" and leave.

that's more the province of american liberals

i have to think that at least a small part of the reason why trump still beats hillary in opinion polls is because of the toxicity and general insanity of the hardcore obsessive fanbase she had that still can't let her go

 

[BahamutPT]

This situation reminds me so much of the (manufactured) health care crisis here in the USA. Millions of ignorant people rallying for the ACA to be repealed for 8 years without actually understanding the ramifications.

Is it really to late for the UK to change course on Brexit?

It's not too late, but the two steps required are basically impossible to fulfill:
1. The UK would have to effectively replace the head of government
2. That replacement would need to basically commit career suicide by going against the results of the referendum and reverse the decision to leave

 

[Gin-Shiio]

It's not too late, but the two steps required are basically impossible to fulfill:
1. The UK would have to effectively replace the head of government
2. That replacement would need to basically commit career suicide by going against the results of the referendum and reverse the decision to leave

Unfortunately there are still laws, and courts would likely not take well to this, no?

 

[PipefishUK]

I looked up to check I could get an Irish passport the other day. Fortunately I can.

I did the same. My dad was born in Belfast and lived there until he was about two years old.

(Irish definition is 'The island of Ireland' so it counts even though it's the UK! - so anyone with Northern Irish only relatives who thinks they're out of luck, you might not be!)

It was remarkably easy, got a copy of my dad's birth certificate from the Northern Ireland records office, got a copy of his death certificate from the English records thing - both completely online, about £10 each - arrived within a few days. Got an application form by emailing my address to the Irish embassy in London.

Filled in the form and sent it off with my payment info and the certificates and within two weeks I got an Irish passport back in the post! It was incredibly easy, I was completely expecting to be rejected or at least for them to come back with more questions, but nope.

The hardest bit was getting my photos certified, I ended up walking into Nationwide and asking the manager to do it (building society manager was one of the random occupations who were accepted) and he did.


I feel a bit of a fraud because I've only been to Ireland once and only for two days to get pissed up! But it's worth it and I can pass it on to my kids if I have any too.

The whole thing cost me less than £100, I think. I believe that's because it was a direct parent. If you have to go the grandparent route I think it's more complicated and a lot more expensive.

 

[BahamutPT]

Unfortunately there are still laws, and courts would likely not take well to this, no?

The referendum was non binding, I don't think it would be a problem.

Edit: well, a legal problem at least. Social problems would definitely arise.

 

[Saint Gregory]

From my understanding of it, yes. May invoked Article 50 and had the official letter delivered to EU by the British Ambassador. The metaphorical train has left the station and with the way the leave camp burned every bridge during their campaign - essentially shit talking every other country in the EU - I doubt anyone in the EU would be very sympathetic to a "oops, we fucked up, can we take it back please?" plea.

It's not too late, but the two steps required are basically impossible to fulfill:
1. The UK would have to effectively replace the head of government
2. That replacement would need to basically commit career suicide by going against the results of the referendum and reverse the decision to leave

Since these answers contradicted each other I just researched it and it looks like it is too late to reverse it now since Article 50 was officially invoked. I had no idea the situation was that bad. And why did the British gov't create such toxicity with the rest of the EU and damage their negotiation position so badly? Did they think the "remain" vote would win?

 

[BahamutPT]

Since these answers contradicted each other I just researched it and it looks like it is too late to reverse it now since Article 50 was officially invoked. I had no idea the situation was that bad. And why did the British gov't create such toxicity with the rest of the EU and damage their negotiation position so badly? Did they think the "remain" vote would win?

Not sure if it changed in the meanwhile, but a leaked document from the European Parliament (albeit from March) absolutely stated the possibility of allowing the UK to revoke, subject to some conditions - https://www.theguardian.com/politic...icle-50-takes-tough-line-on-transitional-deal

the UK will be able to revoke its notification of article 50 but this must be “subject to conditions set by all EU27 so they cannot be used as a procedural device or abused in an attempt to improve the actual terms of the United Kingdom’s membership”.

 

[Lo-Volt]

Since these answers contradicted each other I just researched it and it looks like it is too late to reverse it now since Article 50 was officially invoked. I had no idea the situation was that bad. And why did the British gov't create such toxicity with the rest of the EU and damage their negotiation position so badly? Did they think the "remain" vote would win?

Interestingly, the EU does not agree with that assessment, nor do other legal counselors within the UK. It is the British government's position that Article 50 is irreversible once invoked, but that sounds like a matter of policy and not law. We already saw Emmanuel Macron say 'the door is not necessarily shut' not long after the general election.

Considering how discombobulated British opinion is on this subject, I wonder if there's an outside chance that the referendum could be reversed. And for what it's worth, the referendum itself was not legally binding on its own. I think any government that does it is denying itself re-election, but it isn't totally impossible. Just nearly.

 

[Zutroy]

Since these answers contradicted each other I just researched it and it looks like it is too late to reverse it now since Article 50 was officially invoked. I had no idea the situation was that bad. And why did the British gov't create such toxicity with the rest of the EU and damage their negotiation position so badly? Did they think the "remain" vote would win?

My understanding is that article 50 is so vague that there really isn't anything that says we can't just stop it. Might cause some issues and rumbling in the EU, but at the end of the day we are still one of the largest economies in the world and I don't think the rest of th EU are spiteful enough to stop us from remaining and contributing to the polical union.

Sadly, the UK is spiteful enough that despite us obviously heading into a collision course, our MPs won't hit the breaks.

 

[nubbe]

the UK need to get out first and lose their special snowflake status

 

[30yearsofhurt]

I did.

Should I now not want to keep the citizenship I've had since I was born because 52% of people are idiots who disagreed?

It's nothing against you. You did what was right for you.
But the maths here says that 1 in 5 people who want to keep those EU privileges voted to get rid of them (or more likely didn't bother voting at all).
And it is the same for all those republican voters who want their AHCA but voted to get rid of their Obamacare despite them being the same thing.

 

[Dead Man]

What a shame. Some day, generations hence, they will look back on this time through ancient magazines and books, about a time when they had a royal family and democracy instead of feudalist mad max hellscape. They'd pass stories about the monarch at the time. Some say he could drive so fast he could scale buildings. Some say he is his own third cousin. All they would know is that he was called The Stig.

Lol.