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87 alleged bronx gang members arrested in largest takedown in NYPD history

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TarNaru33

Banned
Yea of course.

But the earlier point was that they prolly don't have solid cases for each and every dude.

NYPD is locking dudes up for being in pictures with friends who commit crimes, even if you per se, had no involvment.

I am sorry, do we have any information that says this is the case? Operations like this, require substantial amount of investigation in most cases. Until the actual trial, who are we to say they are just grabbing people associated with criminals just because they are associates?

I am all for being skeptical, as they do have to prove guilt, but lets not all start assuming NYPD and U.S federals are just picking at 100+ people in one go.
 
The indictments identified the suspects by a dizzying array of aliases, from “Money Making Kenny” and “Broadway” to “Mark the Gritty Shark” and “Wayne Brady.”

This is the greatest thing about the whole story. :D
 
]I am sorry, do we have any information that says this is the case? Operations like this, require substantial amount of investigation in most cases. Until the actual trial, who are we to say they are just grabbing people associated with criminals just because they are associates?

I am all for being skeptical, as they do have to prove guilt, but lets not all start assuming NYPD and U.S federals are just picking at 100+ people in one go.

Welcome to New York...

http://www.theverge.com/2014/12/10/7341077/nypd-harlem-crews-social-media-rikers-prison
The story of the Henry brothers highlights a new reality for teenagers growing up at the intersection of social media, street gangs, and mounting law enforcement surveillance. For those coming of age in gang-saturated areas, the mountains of digital media posted online are a tangled web of connections that can be used to lock up violent perpetrators—but can also ensnare the innocent along with them.

http://www.thenewyorkworld.com/2013/05/17/social-media-conspiracy/

But legal precedents showing how effective or admissible such evidence is during trials are still relatively few, and not every criminal attorney is convinced of the prosecutorial power of social media, particularly when it comes to conspiracy cases.
 

wiggleb0t

Banned
I'm not familiar with street gangs, but do really only a small percent of them do illegal things? Even discounting dealing drugs only - what about violent crime (like armed assault, battery, etc)?

Violent crime stems from drug dealing, both locally and across the border.
 

CHC

Member
Must be time to fill those prisons up I bet only 5% actually did something.

I would actually doubt that. NYPD isn't the greatest but they've actually been better about hitting gangs in meaningful ways rather than focusing on shitty street level arrests.

They did a similar raid in my neighborhood a year or so back with a similar number of arrests.

http://reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0EF1DQ20140604

Not perfect but it's a lot better than just harassing kids in around the projects.
 
looks like the only legal gang in NYC is asserting their dominance. amazingly they managed to kill zero people while doing this with so called violent serial offenders but somehow they manage to kill all sorts of unarmed non-violent people.
 
looks like the only legal gang in NYC is asserting their dominance. amazingly they managed to kill zero people while doing this with so called violent serial offenders but somehow they manage to kill all sorts of unarmed non-violent people.

i imagine its easy to not abuse your power when you are afraid they will all gun you down.
 

entremet

Member
looks like the only legal gang in NYC is asserting their dominance. amazingly they managed to kill zero people while doing this with so called violent serial offenders but somehow they manage to kill all sorts of unarmed non-violent people.
NYPD has issues, but you can't Rambo on these types of raids.

Gangs activity only disrupts the law abiding residents that live in these low income communities.

A bigger discussion is why and how these gangs continue to propogate. But that's not law enforcement job. They're cops, not politicians.

That involves bigger issues that other officials should be tackling.
 
NYPD has issues, but you can't Rambo on these types of raids.

Gangs activity only disrupts the law abiding residents that live in these low income communities.

A bigger discussion is why and how these gangs continue to propogate. But that's not law enforcement job. They're cops, not politicians.

That involves bigger issues that other officials should be tackling.


Prosperity of black communities do not matter.
 

Infinite

Member
NYPD has issues, but you can't Rambo on these types of raids.

Gangs activity only disrupts the law abiding residents that live in these low income communities.

A bigger discussion is why and how these gangs continue to propogate. But that's not law enforcement job. They're cops, not politicians.

That involves bigger issues that other officials should be tackling.

yeah unfortunately they continue to demonstrate that they don't care
 

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
All for cleaning the streets up but it'd be nice if we dealt with the reasons why folks join gangs in the first place.

Should deal with the problem there as well. Don't get me wrong I'm all for getting gang bangers the fuck out.

That's a super complicated thing though.

Why do people join gangs?

  • Peer Pressure
  • FOMO
  • Grew up in the environment that condones it
  • Need to feel accepted
  • Want to make money fast
  • Want to be able to make money at all if you can't get a job
  • Urban culture portrays it as cool

This is just like 1 minute thinking through it. There's probably damn near hundreds of things that could be listed.

It's hard to fix those things, even though I agree, we should try. Which we are.

What's not as hard as that, and is more time sensitive, is busting gang members that are committing crimes currently.
 
NYPD has issues, but you can't Rambo on these types of raids.

Gangs activity only disrupts the law abiding residents that live in these low income communities.

A bigger discussion is why and how these gangs continue to propogate. But that's not law enforcement job. They're cops, not politicians.

That involves bigger issues that other officials should be tackling.

the lack of trust the community has in the blue gangstas is a part of why the gangs propagate.
 

Infinite

Member
That's a super complicated thing though.

Why do people join gangs?

  • Peer Pressure
  • FOMO
  • Grew up in the environment that condones it
  • Need to feel accepted
  • Want to make money fast
  • Want to be able to make money at all if you can't get a job
  • Urban culture portrays it as cool

This is just like 1 minute thinking through it. There's probably damn near hundreds of things that could be listed.

It's hard to fix those things, even though I agree, we should try. Which we are.

What's not as hard as that, and is more time sensitive, is busting gang members that are committing crimes currently.
Its actually not as complicated as you're making it seem. You fix the quality of life in those communities and you curb the gang/crime problem

Also your list of reasons people join gangs is a bit juvenile. There are several different factors that increases the risk of youth joining gangs and all of those factors are tied to qol. Doing a quick google search I found this

A recent Advancement Project report identified six major risk factors that contribute to gang involvement in urban environments:

  • Lack of jobs for youth
  • Poverty compounded by social isolation
  • Domestic violence
  • Negative peer networks
  • Lack of parental supervision
  • Early academic failure and lack of school attachment
http://www.gangfree.org/gangs_why.html

Then it goes into personal reason individuals seek out gangs

A Sense of "Family" - Young people might feel that they don't receive enough support or attention at home. They may be trying to escape a negative home life, or may be looking for a father figure. Gangs often make promises to give unconditional support, and to become the "family" they never had.

Need for food or money - Gangs may present themselves as a means of survival to youth who lack basic essentials such as food, clothing and shelter. More and more, gang members use their affiliation to make a profit through illegal activities, such as selling drugs and auto theft.

Desire for protection - Communities with high gang activity often see young people join a gang just to survive. It is often easier to join the gang than to remain vulnerable and unprotected in their neighborhoods.

Peer Pressure - Kids and teens face constant pressure to fit in, and they may not have the support they need to avoid the pressures to join a gang. Peer pressure can come in the form of intimidation, coercion, a dare, harassment, friendly persuasion, or repetitious begging.

Family history or tradition - Families can have gang involvement spanning over multiple generations. This is one of the toughest forms of pressure to escape, as the gang lifestyle is deeply rooted in family traditions and values.

Excitement - Some young people get a rush out of defying authority, or committing crimes. They may be attracted to the gang lifestyle, as it lives outside the law and participates in many illicit behaviors.

To Appear Cool - Gangs have mastered the art of manipulation to attract potential recruits. They wear the latest fashion trends, throw the hottest parties, and drive the coolest cars. They can appear to have the 'perfect' lifestyle to a young kid who's looking to fit in somewhere. The offer an image of "cool" that has been glorified by the media and entertainment industry.
 

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Its actually not as complicated as you're making it seem. You fix the quality of life in those communities and you curb the gang/crime problem

Oh ok.

I don't understand how you can simplify it to just that, but that's fine if you want to.

My best friend growing up had great parents, a beautiful home, plenty of opportunities, but ended up in a gang because he wanted to be basically. His brother works for his grandfather making close to 6 digits.

I'm saying it's complicated. I'll stick by that.
 

Infinite

Member
Oh ok.

I don't understand how you can simplify it to just that, but that's fine if you want to.

My best friend growing up had great parents, a beautiful home, plenty of opportunities, but ended up in a gang because he wanted to be basically. His brother works for his grandfather making close to 6 digits.

I'm saying it's complicated. I'll stick by that.

check my edit. And like I'm from a community like the one these guys who got arrested are from. I've seen family members and close friends join gangs. I've experience this shit first hand. the point is that we shouldn't ignore environmental factors that can be addressed with policy, that contribute to gang activity. Saying "well its complicated so lets just keep arresting the folks committing crimes" is only one side of the solution while you're giving up on the other.
 

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Its actually not as complicated as you're making it seem. You fix the quality of life in those communities and you curb the gang/crime problem

Also your list of reasons people join gangs is a bit juvenile. There are several different factors that increases the risk of youth joining gangs and all of those factors are tied to qol. Doing a quick google search I found this


http://www.gangfree.org/gangs_why.html

Then it goes into personal reason individuals seek out gangs

I'm confused. My list is juvenile, but most of the things I listed are on your sites list, and I only took a minute to think of them.

check my edit. And like I'm from a community like the one these guys who got arrested are from. I've seen family members and close friends join gangs. I've experience this shit first hand.

Yeah, me too. You're still not showing me it's a simple thing to fix.
 

Kyzer

Banned
But did they get the Kingpin?

They're never gonna catch Hov.

Its actually not as complicated as you're making it seem. You fix the quality of life in those communities and you curb the gang/crime problem

Also your list of reasons people join gangs is a bit juvenile. There are several different factors that increases the risk of youth joining gangs and all of those factors are tied to qol. Doing a quick google search I found this

You have no idea what you're talking about.
 

entremet

Member
the lack of trust the community has in the blue gangstas is a part of why the gangs propagate.

Eh. I'm very critical of police tactics, but there are bigger issues than only police distrust.

Infinite posted it.

Lack of jobs for youth
Poverty compounded by social isolation
Domestic violence
Negative peer networks
Lack of parental supervision
Early academic failure and lack of school attachment

The police only take advantage of such decay.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

This is not an argument.
 

Infinite

Member
I'm confused. My list is juvenile, but most of the things I listed are on your sites list, and I only took a minute to think of them.



Yeah, me too. You're still not showing me it's a simple thing to fix.
I'll be very succinct. I took issue with your post because you're giving up on addressing the environmental issues that contribute to gang activity (which you ignored in your list and the reason why I called it juvenile). Fixing qol in those gang affected communities addresses those environmental issues quite simply.
 

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
I took issue with your post because you're giving up on addressing the environmental issues that contribute to gang activity.

even though I agree, we should try. Which we are.
^

(which you ignored in your list and the reason why I called it juvenile). Fixing qol in those gang affected communities addresses those environmental issues quite simply.

This is just like 1 minute thinking through it. There's probably damn near hundreds of things that could be listed.
^

I didn't ignore anything in my list. I just didn't list everything. As said above. There's lot of reasons.


You're basically saying it's not complicated, fix the qol, and boom, gangs are gone.

Fixing the quality of life is real simple, first off. /s
 

Kyzer

Banned
I'll be very succinct. I took issue with your post because you're giving up on addressing the environmental issues that contribute to gang activity (which you ignored in your list and the reason why I called it juvenile). Fixing qol in those gang affected communities addresses those environmental issues quite simply.

So your issue with his reasons, even though you listed the same reasons, is that, its simpler than what he is saying, yet simultaneously more complicated than he cares to address?

Ray Wonder is not wrong and damn right people join gangs for juvenile reasons. They're 12-15 years old a lot of the time.
 

Infinite

Member
I didn't ignore anything in my list. I just didn't list everything. As said above. There's lot of reasons.


You're basically saying it's not complicated, fix the qol, and boom, gangs are gone.

Fixing the quality of life is real simple, first off. /s

I never said that
Infinite said:
Its actually not as complicated as you're making it seem. You fix the quality of life in those communities and you curb the gang/crime problem
 
Where are you confused?

i'm confused by your response, particularly to the "there are bigger issues than only" part of it. it's okay, i'm not digging on you for not understanding that "is a part of why" doesn't mean only. english is complex.

there are a ton of non-native english people on GAF, sometimes things need an extra bit of explaining and that's okay.
 

entremet

Member
i'm confused by your response, particularly to the "there are bigger issues than only" part of it. it's okay, i'm not digging on you for not understanding that "is a part of why" doesn't mean only. english is complex.

Meaning, your argument is that police distrust is big reason why these gang exists. Is that correct?

I'm saying they are bigger issue than only police distrust.

Police distrust can be a factor, but it is dwarfed by other systemic issues.

No, I'm native speaker. But just ask for a clarification on any statement. That's fine to do. It is pretty early still so my grammar may not be best right now.
 

E92 M3

Member
I can't believe some people are questioning this. Round them all up and let the community thrive. Even nonviolent (lol) gangs destroy communities. I am sure the local people are super happy about this.
 

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
and what would be incorrect about that statement now?

Not that this is what my original argument is solely about, because it's about every aspect of why people are in gangs, not just qol issues, but:

"Fixing the qol" and "Not complicated" should never be in the same sentence.

That's like the most complicated thing in the damn world.

Build economic stability, fix racial bias in the hiring process, help drug addicted parents who are ruining their kids, + quite literally a million other things.
 

vikki

Member
People taking Wayne Brady to higher plane. Wayne Brady, fictional Wayne Brady, Fictional Wayne Brady actualized.

Anyway, I watched a little of the news this morning and I saw no mention of this. I live in NYC. Seems like a pretty big deal to report on.
 

entremet

Member
I can't believe some people are questioning this. Round them all up and let the community thrive. Even nonviolent (lol) gangs destroy communities. I am sure the local people are super happy about this.
Simple. They don't live in these communities.

I do think the reporting on the topic is heavily biased, but it's The NY Daily News so I'm not surprised.

Moreover, there's skepticism such arrests will fix bigger issues that help these gangs thrive.
 

Kyzer

Banned
Not that this is what my original argument is solely about, because it's about every aspect of why people are in gangs, not just qol issues, but:

"Fixing the qol" and "Not complicated" should never be in the same sentence.

That's like the most complicated thing in the damn world.

Build economic stability, fix racial bias in the hiring process, help drug addicted parents who are ruining their kids, + quite literally a million other things.

Ray, let me stop you right there. Because I know you have first-hand experience with the topic, but trust me I've googled this much more extensively than you, and so I'm gonna say your list is basic and juvenile, and post almost the exact same thing but exactly from Google, so you know it's more right.

I'm only doing this because it's simpler than you're making it seem.

Unless you point out how complicated what I'm suggesting is, cuz then I'm doing it because theres more to it than you are caring to address in your post.

All you gotta do is fix the neighborhood. Then the neighborhood won't be bad anymore. Duh!

Trust me, I've read many Googles about this
 

Infinite

Member
Not that this is what my original argument is solely about, because it's about every aspect of why people are in gangs, not just qol issues, but:

"Fixing the qol" and "Not complicated" should never be in the same sentence.

That's like the most complicated thing in the damn world.

Build economic stability, fix racial bias in the hiring process, help drug addicted parents who are ruining their kids, + quite literally a million other things.

Ok. When reading your initial post it came across to me as "well this is entirely too complicated to tackle so I guess well just have to stick to being reactive" and my response was "hey we have a way of going about this its not unsolvable". I didn't mean to say the process of fixing qol is an easy one I know its not but we have to try and start somewhere. We have to be proactive as well as reactive.
 
They grabbed as many guilty looking people (mostly black) as they could find I bet. I highly doubt all the people they grabbed are actual gang members and criminals.
 

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Ray, let me stop you right there. Because I know you have first-hand experience with the topic, but trust me I've googled this much more extensively than you, and so I'm gonna say your list is basic and juvenile, and post almost the exact same thing but exactly from Google, so you know it's more right.

I'm only doing this because it's simpler than you're making it seem.

Unless you point out how complicated what I'm suggesting is, cuz then I'm doing it because theres more to it than you are caring to address in your post.

All you gotta do is fix the neighborhood. Then the neighborhood won't be bad anymore. Duh!

Trust me, I've read many Googles about this

lmao

Ok. When reading your initial post it came across to me as "well this is entirely too complicated to tackle so I guess well just have to stick to being reactive" and my response was "hey we have a way of going about this its not unsolvable". I didn't mean to say the process of fixing qol is an easy one I know its not but we have to try and start somewhere. We have to be proactive as well as reactive.


Alright, that's fine. I'm not going to take responsibility for the misunderstanding though because I did make sure that I stated the opposite in there.
 

E92 M3

Member
Simple. They don't live in these communities.

I do think the reporting on the topic is heavily biased, but it's The NY Daily News so I'm not surprised.

Moreover, there's skepticism such arrests will fix bigger issues that help these gangs thrive.

Indeed, a lot of people live in a fantasy world and don't know how life is really like.
 
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