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A German exchange student's account of "Trump Country" - in defense of rural USA
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Dreams-Visions
Member
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=216180930&postcount=267
I'm from a small/rural? Ohio suburb. Culturally quite mixed, but this shit happened and I would expect even today I'd get the side eye from some GAFers who simply wouldn't have known better. Lack of cultural diversity and diverse education. Even recent (last 50 years) American history escapes many citizens. Never mind the fact that there are lots of not so smart people out there in the first place.
In truth, people tend to not think much farther than themselves and their lives (and things that impact them). To be frank, there's no reason for minorities to occupy the minds of the majority while such issues tend to be constant for the minority. The result is heavy knowledge gaps.
Oh also,
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2003/0512/038.html#
let that shit sink in. If you thought only the midwest was a meme, enjoy your disappointment
Sure, but in Germany there is a base line. People here don't believe that global warming is a Chinese hoax or that religion should play a bigger role in politics. People who brake that line are just crazy and are seen as such. The weirdest thing people have over here is a fixation over the lines drawn by airplanes flying over their heads. And of course the assholes who don't like immigrants, but that's another story.
WiiredShawn
Member
In short, Rural America needs education. Or better said, it needs the kind of economic growth that would prompt people to become more educated, engage in critical discourse, and bring diversity into their towns.
Ironically, they're told by the media they consume to turn away from the policies that would help them the most - away from free education, away from cheaper health care, away from social programs, away from government stimulus and forcing corporations to pay more of their share. It led them to gamble on a spoiled billionaire who probably can't even understand what struggle is like, and who won't do anything for them as a result.
It is sad.
Ironically, they're told by the media they consume to turn away from the policies that would help them the most - away from free education, away from cheaper health care, away from social programs, away from government stimulus and forcing corporations to pay more of their share. It led them to gamble on a spoiled billionaire who probably can't even understand what struggle is like, and who won't do anything for them as a result.
It is sad.
Conkersbadfurday
Member
This is where I"m at in MN, to a smaller extent probably. I've been friends with some people for quite awhile, and they're great until race, politics, religion, or climate change come up.
Then it's like they're these scary, angry zealots.
We just avoid the topics now. It's fucked up to say, "Yeah X is a good guy who would do anything for anyone, but he's also racist as hell and knows it." Or "This guy is super nice and I love talking comics with him but he gets belligerent if climate change comes up because it's not real according to a scifi book he read"
I've just gotten to a point where I pick my battles.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
The Internet should've been the thing that made people better informed, but it's made some people even dumber, or straight up crazy.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
You definitely have the alt-right now, and that's new. But we've taken that to be the main of the revolution, when it probably isn't.
The alt-right is kindling, but the fire is traditional red America.
It's a communication tool. Can be used for great good or great evil, etc.
SporeCrawler
Member
lets stop this bs with the echo chamber.
there are large parts of america and large parts of the UK that have kind of lost their way. doesnt mean that the achievements of enlightenment were wrong
Muppet of a Man
Member
It's sad that if you are unfortunate enough to be born in one of these places and have an actual moral compass that you literally have to escape as a youth to keep your sanity.
It's like a bizarrely inverted Escape from New York...but it's actually real life.
I know several people who've escaped from these environments. They were very good, strong people since they intrinsically needed to be in order to resist and not get sucked into the bullshit.
I have mucho respect for anyone who as a young person can endure that and come out better for it.
It's like a bizarrely inverted Escape from New York...but it's actually real life.
I know several people who've escaped from these environments. They were very good, strong people since they intrinsically needed to be in order to resist and not get sucked into the bullshit.
I have mucho respect for anyone who as a young person can endure that and come out better for it.
Darryl M R
Member
How can you help a collective group of people where the majority of them do not want your help?
Seriously how?
Chairmanchuck
Member
That was strange too, but right now you could replace CDU with CSU and it wouldnt be that wrong. The stuff Seehofer said at the last "Parteitag" was a lot like what 1 year ago you heard from the AfD (though it seems to be a tactic to get those right-wingers to vote for them).
Well I would not want to be with a CDU voter..>_>.
I think Seehofer says some "stuff" to appeal to the AfD voters / to get them back. But at the end of the day, they're mid-right. Not far-right/right.
But Seehofer sucks anyways. Just like Merkel and Co. Germany needs new blood up there.
Weird.....
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Yeah, true, but these alt-right types just smothered social-media/Youtube/internet in general during this election, just everywhere in a damn instant, peddling some bullshit. It's the future. (especially when you have foreign entities getting directly involved, helping their cause)
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
Catholic Churches are centrally organized by districts I believe...could be wrong as I'm not Catholic myself.
Protestants aren't organized at all. The largest body is probably something like the Southern Baptist Convention in terms of influence and power. There are too many fundamental differences in their systems of belief (methods of salvation, progressivism, Mormonism, Biblical interpretations, etc.) to really reliably unify into one strong voice.
I sometimes believe that many of these people vote Republican purely over the abortion debate. Things like gay marriage probably wouldn't have had the same staying power as abortion if we could have had another decade or so with a Democratic president....but unfortunately the issue is fresh enough that it'll get supported by these groups when Trump/Pence move to roll LGBT rights back
Without either of those wedge issues, Protestant Christians wouldn't vote as predictably.
Now i'm curious which one it is, i spent my first 10 years in that area before moving to NRW lol
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Republicans don't want this. And they keeping winning.
Darryl M R
Member
Can public schools use tax payer dollars to have terrorist alarm tests?
I don't think justification is right, either. I'd say it is an explanation of ignorance. The point is that the people in question have no reason to believe that any of the things they hold to be true could be false, because they are never exposed to a different view than the one that has been ingrained in them since childhood. It highlights how insular large parts of the US are, and how important it is to introduce people from an early age to political / racial / sexual / religious diversity.
The sad irony is that the people that would be most likely to change the way their communities think about the 'other' are also the ones who are most likely to leave them in search of a more tolerant environment.
SporeCrawler
Member
merkel should just establish a Bavarian CDU and be done with it. Seehofer is a joke.
The idea of not talking politics so we can all get along is a gross diversion of both intellectual engagement and civic duty. Of course one is going to be ashamed of doing against a large group but one absolutely needs to choose at least some battles.
I'm glad she was able to make friends, but she had to hid her values because her new environment had other values. This is not an ideal position even if you end up harmonizing and being accepted.
A whole generation of the southern strategy, with democrats playing along in order to pander to the growing minorities has created real dystopias, where people are indoctrinated to toxic levels. I believe America is now in a civil war, one fought with law and culture instead of rifles. Which in the XXI century, they cut deeper than any sword. I truly believe the federal model has failed. The coexistence of different laws and governments in one country that fights for the federal position means the resources are always put from a position of power and for upholding social, with no opposition from within.
Without a major reform to the electorate process, with the incorporation of 3rd parties and eliminating the college electorate should help swing the pendulum one way or the other. In a way, having the Republicans control all branch of government could be a good thing if the right push back is put in measure.
The differences are irreconcilable at this point, and I truly am sorry for democrats in red states and vice versa. Trump could be the sharp turn this country needs, we just have to make sure the changes aren't the ones imposed by his government but the next generation. The deregulation of media corporations was one of the biggest mistakes made, that's for sure.
I'm glad she was able to make friends, but she had to hid her values because her new environment had other values. This is not an ideal position even if you end up harmonizing and being accepted.
A whole generation of the southern strategy, with democrats playing along in order to pander to the growing minorities has created real dystopias, where people are indoctrinated to toxic levels. I believe America is now in a civil war, one fought with law and culture instead of rifles. Which in the XXI century, they cut deeper than any sword. I truly believe the federal model has failed. The coexistence of different laws and governments in one country that fights for the federal position means the resources are always put from a position of power and for upholding social, with no opposition from within.
Without a major reform to the electorate process, with the incorporation of 3rd parties and eliminating the college electorate should help swing the pendulum one way or the other. In a way, having the Republicans control all branch of government could be a good thing if the right push back is put in measure.
The differences are irreconcilable at this point, and I truly am sorry for democrats in red states and vice versa. Trump could be the sharp turn this country needs, we just have to make sure the changes aren't the ones imposed by his government but the next generation. The deregulation of media corporations was one of the biggest mistakes made, that's for sure.
Could they have holiday learning camps for rural kids and others to open their minds, mingle with other people, learn new things about the US etc.
I guess that might come across as liberal indoctrination to these people but I don't know how you can take them away from the bubble.
As for news networks, could there be a wiki like funded one that is just truth and facts. Something that people can go to for as non biased view as possible. Something many of the rich and celebs could help back to get the ball rolling?
I guess that might come across as liberal indoctrination to these people but I don't know how you can take them away from the bubble.
As for news networks, could there be a wiki like funded one that is just truth and facts. Something that people can go to for as non biased view as possible. Something many of the rich and celebs could help back to get the ball rolling?
In my college global studies class I took this summer, someone did this while writing about gloabal warming in an exercise. Just one reference, the bible. It's sad.
Even better, they should both campaign nationwide. Many people that voted AfD in the state elections have said that they would have voted CSU instead if they could have, and the AfD is noticeably weaker in Bavaria than in the rest of Germany. The CSU offers a 'sensible' alternative to people that would like to vote for a true centre-right party (which the CDU, outside of a few religiously-inspired topics, really isn't anymore). I doubt it would even change the dynamics of the executive too much, since the current government feels a lot more like a three-party coalition than a two-party coalition, anyway.
I think her point is that she is challenging her own bias and kinda is repeating the survival tactics she has picked up in Minnesota.
Looking at you Sesu
It might seem sad, but it's also why we have this problem of democrats and liberal voters concentrating around cities.
Exactly. Minnesota Nice means don't say things that'll cause controversy.
No shit, my first thought after waking up to president Trump was thank god we have the CSU. It could be a golden bridge to the described demographics. I am peronally not in favour of the CSU but they are the only established party that hasn't lost touch with the rural populace.
CountAntonius
Member
Can I make this a size 48 font....this needs to be seen alot more...
When people emigrated to the US, they had to work for what they could, and they were many times on their own "out on the frontier". You would think things change, but they have not. Some of the same families live where their family members settled in US, and well besides have a tractor instead of horses, many things are the same.
TyphoonStruggle
Member
1. Maybe dont quote the whole article.
2. Sounds like this person had a good (not necessarily fun) foreign exchange experience. Experiencing different points of view, even if they are wrong, is important.
3. I feel sorry for these people. Its like, literally brain washing people from birth.
2. Sounds like this person had a good (not necessarily fun) foreign exchange experience. Experiencing different points of view, even if they are wrong, is important.
3. I feel sorry for these people. Its like, literally brain washing people from birth.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Posting this again because it was probably missed.
From a 2003 poll of 18-24 yo Americans:
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2003/0512/038.html#
A lot of Americans are very disappointing people. People don't like to be called ignorant, but I mean here we are. This shit isn't even checkers (more like Candyland) and most societal issues are chess. Large swaths of the voting public are not meaningfully cultured or educated. They vote their fears and ability to feed their families easier.
From a 2003 poll of 18-24 yo Americans:
- When asked to find 10 specific states on a map of the U.S., only California and Texas could be located by a large majority.
- Only 51% could find New York.
- On a world map, Americans could find on average only 7 of 16 countries in the quiz.
- Only 89% of the Americans surveyed could find their own country.
- Only 71% of the surveyed Americans could locate the Pacific Ocean.
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2003/0512/038.html#
A lot of Americans are very disappointing people. People don't like to be called ignorant, but I mean here we are. This shit isn't even checkers (more like Candyland) and most societal issues are chess. Large swaths of the voting public are not meaningfully cultured or educated. They vote their fears and ability to feed their families easier.
My goodness is this very wrong. The US sends aid, money, things all over the world when there is disasters or other need. People in the US are very much helping others.
What many don't want is those that decide they want a free ride and not work. I am saying what many feel, that there are people that abuse the system, want free hand outs, don't want to work for anything. Just like many things it is what they see as worst examples, and in the news, that forms their opinion too. Worst examples stereotype others. If you think this is not true, then maybe go visit rural US like the German student did.
And if you asked whom or where this poll was taken, you know what a major of US folks would say correct? Those blue dots in the states.
This and the part about "beware of the lesbians"
Calm waterfall
Banned
WTF! How does this happen?
Darryl M R
Member
No you are wrong. State representatives vote on not to give other state aid during natural disasters knowing that their constituents don't care. And then when something happen to their state they ask for aid.
Permanently A
Junior Member
"We write a paper on the Big Bang in biology class. When Ashlie strikes out all the questions and simply writes down the story of creation from the Bible, she gets the full score."
I'm starting to think the Bugs Bunny gif might be the most practical solution to our problems.
I'm starting to think the Bugs Bunny gif might be the most practical solution to our problems.
WiiredShawn
Member
I don't know. I've mulled over the question a lot.
At a base level, a progressive has to jump start their economies. If they feel like a leader legitimately helped them in some tangible way, and that leader embodies the kind of moral and rational attitudes that society needs in them, then some of them may follow suit.
At the same time, I don't know how much incentive politicians have to really focus on the Rust Belt's ultimate success. All of the money and excitement goes into technology, science, engineering, luxury - all things typically oriented to urban centers. Is Rural America going to try and join in with that direction? If not, corporations won't care, especially as long as we maintain a hyper-capitalistic attitude where massive profits, rather than social well-being, is the primary focal point. That will just keep the money in the places where the money has the biggest returns.
However, the strongly religious nature of Rural America means that it would resist the developments that come along with contributing to a service-oriented, tech-oriented secular economy. For Rural America to survive in this scenario, they would have to sacrifice a good deal of those "moral principles" that make them Rural America in the first place.
So I don't know. Rural America wants success, but they also resist change. They want success that doesn't interfere with any of their existing values, and I don't know if that's truly possible. And I'm afraid that even if a progressive brought them economic feasibility, a conservative would swoop in and claim that success for themselves, setting the whole process back.
On a different note, I would have the chortle of a lifetime if a student tried to use the Bible as evidence in a research paper on anything not pertaining directly to the Bible. But that student shouldn't be mocked - they should be talked to. They need to feel like intellectual discourse is a tool for them, and not a threat.
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