DontBeThatGuy
Member
We're boned
Not really, the right candidate and a reality check is all that's needed.
We're boned
It seems like if people like the OP can't rep the GOP proudly then they are more likely to go the both sides suck route instead of realistically looking at the situation and realizing there is only one party right now looking out for the best interest of the average American right now.
Third parties in general elections would be perfectly fine and beneficial if the US did what every other sensible nation does and held open primaries prior to a run off.
Its self defeating. At my age and where I'm at in life, no I do not want it because I recognize my job can be automated. Then there is the argument of going to school like its not going to be ridiculously competitive in the future. Unemployment will reach stupid levels at some point. If someone campaigns on the narrative of trying to stop it.....then lights out and you know it. People want to keep their jobs and have job growth. For a lot of people that's all they care about hence the disconnect.
Someone can campaign on it all they like, it's basically an unstoppable juggernaut at this point.
I mean what would the policy platform for stopping automation even look like?
It would have to involve sending the military to seize control of the manufacturing companies.
Voting itself is pretty unsexy. I blamePretty much everything about our electoral process is hot garbage, but it's much easier to subvert legal obstructions than change them. The best way to push for institutional change is to demand jungle primaries in every state. But local electoral reform is such a sterile, un-sexy issue that it's near impossible to rally support for it.
Yep. GOP loses when turnout is good.
Democrats just don't have a face that represents them. Clinton was not it for many people.
And personally, I suspect young democrats want that perfect candidate that was for gay marriage at birth, never said anything objectionable, never was in talks with corporations, is only somewhat religious, and wants to make everything free.
Seems the lesson there would be don't run Clinton again.
can't wait for Chelsea Clinton to lose against the moldering corpse of david duke in 2044
can't wait for Chelsea Clinton to lose against the moldering corpse of david duke in 2044
The groups that have had their approval drop are actually just the different groups of the party baseI would love to see the number one reason cited for why people think Dems are out of touch. If it's "they are too liberal" would the whiners in this thread be cool with them moderating? I doubt it.
As mentioned, Trump's challenges don't mean the opposition is in good shape. In March 2014, 48 percent of Americans said the Democratic Party was out of touch with the concerns of most people. Today 67 percent say so. And the biggest change has occurred chiefly among the party's own typical loyalists, with "out of touch" ratings up 33 points among liberals, 30 points among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents and 26 points among moderates and nonwhites alike.
Why do people keep obsessing over Chelsea Clinton? She has said time and time again she has no political aspirations.
Its self defeating. At my age and where I'm at in life, no I do not want it because I recognize my job can be automated. Then there is the argument of going to school like its not going to be ridiculously competitive in the future. Unemployment will reach stupid levels at some point. If someone campaigns on the narrative of trying to stop it.....then lights out and you know it. People want to keep their jobs and have job growth. For a lot of people that's all they care about hence the disconnect.
Not really, the right candidate and a reality check is all that's needed.
Frankly, this is the perfect time for Elizabeth Warren to finally run - both Clinton and Bernie are out of the picture, and while there probably are other viable candidates who could do a good job as well who might think it's safe to finally run, I don't think there's anyone who is nearly as well-known and popular as Warren, nor anyone whose fans will drag down the post-primary vote due to being sore losers like Bernie's.
Warren would be far, far more capable of fighting Trump on the issues that won him the presidency, especially if he and the GOP-controlled congress continues to shoot themselves in the foot.
Frankly, this is the perfect time for Elizabeth Warren to finally run - both Clinton and Bernie are out of the picture, and while there probably are other viable candidates who could do a good job as well who might think it's safe to finally run, I don't think there's anyone who is nearly as well-known and popular as Warren, nor anyone whose fans will potentially drag down the post-primary vote due to being sore losers like Bernie's might've done(?).
Warren would be far, far more capable of fighting Trump on the issues that won him the presidency, especially if he and the GOP-controlled congress continues to shoot themselves in the foot.
Because over the past few months the media has kept pushing her in a really obvious attempt to build her brand up for a future run for office. The sort of thing that results in disgusting puff pieces with extracts such asWhy do people keep obsessing over Chelsea Clinton? She has said time and time again she has no political aspirations.
Youre organizing a literary dinner party. Which three writers, dead or alive, do you invite?
James Baldwin, Shakespeare, Franz Kafka. If I could have three more, at this moment in time, I would choose Albert Camus, Jane Jacobs and Jane Austen. With our group of five or eight (Id invite my husband too), we would talk about the questions each author grappled with the balance between social responsibility and individual freedom, and how people and communities can evolve to be more inclusive, more kind, have a greater and broader sense of solidarity, while still respecting individual liberties; what provokes or blocks those changes; and what stories might resonate today to encourage us toward kindness, respect and mutual dignity. And, Id be tempted to ask Frederick Douglass and Jesus Christ to tea to ask similar questions, and also about their respective resurrections.
Source?
I edited my post to clarify that I don't think the "Bernie or bust" vote really was a major factor in Clinton's loss, but I'm just discussing the possibility of a similar phenomenon (and how it's less likely in 2020).
Sixty-seven percent of respondents said the Democratic Party was out of touch, as did 62% for the Republican Party.
Yeah, not really, and I don't recall any studies or polling that reflects on any effect the "Bernie or bust" crowd might've had. I'm just bringing up the rather unlikely possibility of a voter split in the same vein that could occur if Warren beat any other potential primary candidates. The only way I could see a similar issue occurring is if Warren was somehow beaten by some other candidate, but it would probably require a repeat of the Obama phenomenon for that to happen, IMO.So you don't have a source?
She would just have to separate herself from Hillary
The Democrats did better in 2016 than they did in 2014. (Gained seats in house, senate, and won popular vote by significant margin) Very different electorate from a midterm electorate. Will be interesting to see how 2018 shifts that equation, if at all, with a huge energy advantage on the Left.
Yeah, nobody else will probably start running until 2019, 2018 at the soonest.Frankly, this is the perfect time for Elizabeth Warren to finally run
2016 wasn't a midterm. Pretty fucking hard to perform worse in comparison.
You're right that 2018 will be a real decider. The Democratic Party has behaved pretty poorly since Trump's election, refusing to cede any ground to the progressives among them, whether it be significant matters of policy (single payer) or symbolic gestures (Ellison appointment). This is alienating a lot of Democrats. Opinion polling and the migration of young progressives toward radical politics suggests this isn't just projection on my part.
Trump is such a shithead that it would be hard for the Democrats to fuck this up, though. Ideally his presidency will create an opposition fervor faster than the Democrats can spoil it.
The elections are a more important metric though, and Democrats have improved greatly in special elections in both solid red and blue districts (not too many swing seats to see if that would hold there). The reason fearmongering about Trump didn't work was because no one took the threat of Trump seriously as everyone thought he would lose, the GOP won't have that going for them in 2018.2016 wasn't a midterm. Pretty fucking hard to perform worse in comparison.
You're right that 2018 will be a real decider. The Democratic Party has behaved pretty poorly since Trump's election, refusing to cede any ground to the progressives among them, whether it be significant matters of policy (single payer) or symbolic gestures (Ellison appointment). This is alienating a lot of Democrats. Opinion polling and the migration of young progressives toward radical politics suggests this isn't just projection on my part.
Trump is such a shithead that it would be hard for the Democrats to fuck this up, though. Ideally his presidency will create an opposition fervor faster than the Democrats can spoil it.
What world have you been living in? Haven't paid attention to the whole "Unity tour" bullshit?
The only people that have been alienated are women and minorities, who continually get their priorities passed over in favor of white working class men. See: Heath Mello and the disastrous way Bernie, Perez, and Ellison dealt with that.
Why is it so hard to recognize that other groups you don't identify with may have feelings too? Who are you to decide how progressive liberals should react? The reality is that ALL people left of the current administration are feeling disenfranchised and fearful. Women and minorities may especially be afraid of marginalization but that doesn't mean they're the only ones that are worried.
Well, women (for example) just had their party leadership (Bernie, Perez, and Ellison) support and campaign for a candidate who supported an ultrasound abortion law when he was a State Senator. And maybe they're worried that that's the direction the party is going to go, even though women make up the majority of the party and are its backbone.
That's just one example.
Well, women (for example) just had their party leadership (Bernie, Perez, and Ellison) support and campaign for a candidate who supported an ultrasound abortion law when he was a State Senator. And maybe they're worried that that's the direction the party is going to go, even though women make up the majority of the party and are its backbone.
That's just one example.
A person who thinks the Dems are going to become anti-abortion because a few Dems stumped for a pro-lifr dude (whose rationale for supporting the ultrasound law was noy horribly dissimilar to establishment Dems' rationale for supporting DOMA, btw, i.e. it was a less-bad altetnative to what Repubs were proposing) running in flyover country is very much a fool.
Democrats just don't have a face that represents them. Clinton was not it for many people.
And personally, I suspect young democrats want that perfect candidate that was for gay marriage at birth, never said anything objectionable, never was in talks with corporations, is only somewhat religious, and wants to make everything free.
I'm not saying women aren't legitimately afraid of being disenfranchised. I'm saying women and minorities aren't the only ones afraid of being disenfranchised. There are also women and minorities who are afraid of the direction the country is going primarily for reasons completely unrelated to their race or gender.
Schattenjäger;234558317 said:Yea so we need a 3rd party
It seems like if people like the OP can't rep the GOP proudly then they are more likely to go the both sides suck route instead of realistically looking at the situation and realizing there is only one party right now looking out for the best interest of the average American right now.
The voters in this country refuse to take responsibility for their actions and lack of basic comprehension. Because how Democrats are seen as more out of touch than the Republicans, even though Dems hold no political power in either branch of government, is beyond me.
However, the common thread is the same on both sides: privileged White people. On the left, you have the dominantly White Bernie voters stirring the pot constantly, shitting on Clinton without paying any attention to context as to why she lost and what factors led to that happening. They are also throwing a tantrum every time someone who doesn't have Bernie's stamp of approval gains national attention, as the DNC chairman selection proved. These are also the same people disregarding the wants and needs of the minority base of the Democratic Party, and like to tell others that we should give a pass to the racist rhetoric that Trump voters bought into.
Meanwhile, the same base of minority voters (who are probably the only ones in this country who actually have a reason to be jaded about the entire electoral process) are the ones consistently showing up to handle their portion of the electoral bargain, even in low turnout elections. Minority voters have zero problem swallowing their pride and voting for whoever the candidate in the left is.
And yet, we keep running into this issue in three separate countries, in three separate occasions, because the dominant population in those countries are apparently in full self-destruct mode. And that's the worst part of all of this: there is no reason why Trump, Brexit, and possibly Le Pen should be happening at all. But the common thread among them is the same: White people who are either so scared of brown people they accept fascism, or White people who are so privileged, entitled and complacent, that they'll let fascism happen just because they didn't get 100% of everything they wanted.
Until this changes, we are going to keep having these polls show up, and we'll keep wondering why the West seems to be headed towards a path of self-destruction.
TL;DR: Voters, specifically White voters, need to start taking responsibility for us getting to this point and stop blaming Clinton or anyone else for your poor decisions.
Sure, but some groups (white working class) are being appeased by the party while other groups (women, minorities) are passed over, even if the latter have been the backbone of the party historically. That's the problem.
The voters in this country refuse to take responsibility for their actions and lack of basic comprehension. Because how Democrats are seen as more out of touch than the Republicans, even though Dems hold no political power in either branch of government, is beyond me.
However, the common thread is the same on both sides: privileged White people. On the left, you have the dominantly White Bernie voters stirring the pot constantly, shitting on Clinton without paying any attention to context as to why she lost and what factors led to that happening. They are also throwing a tantrum every time someone who doesn't have Bernie's stamp of approval gains national attention, as the DNC chairman selection proved. These are also the same people disregarding the wants and needs of the minority base of the Democratic Party, and like to tell others that we should give a pass to the racist rhetoric that Trump voters bought into.
Meanwhile, the same base of minority voters (who are probably the only ones in this country who actually have a reason to be jaded about the entire electoral process) are the ones consistently showing up to handle their portion of the electoral bargain, even in low turnout elections. Minority voters have zero problem swallowing their pride and voting for whoever the candidate in the left is.
And yet, we keep running into this issue in three separate countries, in three separate occasions, because the dominant population in those countries are apparently in full self-destruct mode. And that's the worst part of all of this: there is no reason why Trump, Brexit, and possibly Le Pen should be happening at all. But the common thread among them is the same: White people who are either so scared of brown people they accept fascism, or White people who are so privileged, entitled and complacent, that they'll let fascism happen just because they didn't get 100% of everything they wanted.
Until this changes, we are going to keep having these polls show up, and we'll keep wondering why the West seems to be headed towards a path of self-destruction.
TL;DR: Voters, specifically White voters, need to start taking responsibility for us getting to this point and stop blaming Clinton or anyone else for your poor decisions.