It's pretty obvious, almost in your face. But not like they are the only industry that does it,
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According to Jack Kirby, Stan Lee was an uncreative hack (1990 Interview)
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It's pretty obvious, almost in your face. But not like they are the only industry that does it,
Sibersk Esto
Banned
that same source told both companies that they should have a living planet as a character
those writers could be considered The Source.
I've always been more partial to DCs Circe
Frozenprince
Banned
And like I said it's not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes you get good writers/editors that take the poorly handled way DC or Marvel did something and actually do it right.
How much of your Sersi love is actually from Kirby's stuff vs her time on the Avengers 15-20 years later though? Kirby's Eternals run was 20 issues.
Fair enough. ;-) I wasn't ripping on the Eternals as much as I was pointing out that Kirby was plagiarizing himself a bit. I liked Sersi well enough when she was in the Avengers and I actually really liked the Neil Gaiman scripted Eternals series.
You right, if i had a dime for every time a later writer came and polished a turd
No problem,
Frozenprince
Banned
Lol, editors say no and don't write it themselves. Lol
Seriously though pretty sure the late 80's-90's were nothing but editorial going "fuck it give em more pouches, juice em like Bonds, and make em edgy as fuck".
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Must be cause i have a hard time imagining that thing he is lifting is merely 10 tons
Frozenprince
Banned
Kirby logic.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
pssh Super Skrull could lift 50 tons in his first appearance.
revolverjgw
Member
Why is Byrne so bad? Gimme some dirt
evil solrac v3.0
Member
the younger nerds havent read these stories.
His Superman was pretty good
And lets not pretend New Gods were anthing to write home about
they influenced a lot of things. and Darkseid, Big Barda, Scott Miracle, the Furies, Desaad, Oberon and Orion are pretty cool characters.
so? lots of people missed Jack when he died too.
they have lots of concepts and characters. sorry you're not a fan.
Comic logic in general.
We had those Marvel handbooks telling us so and so could lift 50 tons, and then you'd get a comic with them lifting an oil tanker or something ridiculous.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Frozenprince
Banned
Didn't he write Superman for a bit?
Frozenprince
Banned
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Yeah it was pretty good, but man sometimes it felt like he couldn't shut up. He had that "every comic is someone's first" thing real bad so most of the time Superman wouldn't shut up about how his mild telekinesis kept his costume fine.
I measure every superman book by "THe Long Walk" and "The Doomslayer arc" level of shittness
Not gonna lie.
His Supes wasn't horrible
……forgetit
Member
I ventured into the comments, tons of people don't understand jokes.
His blonde latinas comment (in reference to Jessica Alba in the 2005 Fantastic Four film) is worse.
my name is ed
Banned
I've never believed either of their accounts to be honest. Stan Lee didnt create after the first initial big success of Marvel because he basically changed to be a salesman/spokesman of the brand.
Also I never ever trust someone who declares they never lied about anything. Which I think Kirby says in that same interview. I didnt read it again b/c its pretty long but IIRC he says that and that he never erased a line when drawing.
KidGalactus
Member
Fucking comics fans.
Worship characters over the people who create them. Run talent out of the industry for asserting themselves, and then complain when only the worst of the worst are left behind.
Worst thing about comics.
Worse than Geoff Johns, even.
Worship characters over the people who create them. Run talent out of the industry for asserting themselves, and then complain when only the worst of the worst are left behind.
Worst thing about comics.
Worse than Geoff Johns, even.
You're thinking of Stripperella, which I used to watch as a kid. It was uh...interesting.
KidGalactus
Member
That's Steve Ditko. A different guy Stanley fucked over.
The crazy thing is, at the start of everything, Jack just wanted his original pages back. The company jerked him around for years, seemingly out of malice, and then (presumably after talking to lawyers) he got assertive about the other stuff.
Thor was probably the most Kirby influenced of all the Marvel books, and lost a lot when he left for DC, but there's a massive change in writing style when Gerry Conway took over the writing credit a year later.
Kirby wrote and drew an alternative ending for Thor #169 that was nixes by Lee, which really incensed Kirby. I think Kirby's ending involved Galactus teaming up with Thor to defeat Thermal Man. I believe Kirby mentioned that Lee was trying to avoid story arcs and make issues more self contained -- in any case, his work on Thor was pretty half hearted until the end.
Kirby wrote and drew an alternative ending for Thor #169 that was nixes by Lee, which really incensed Kirby. I think Kirby's ending involved Galactus teaming up with Thor to defeat Thermal Man. I believe Kirby mentioned that Lee was trying to avoid story arcs and make issues more self contained -- in any case, his work on Thor was pretty half hearted until the end.
Co-creators rarely get along once things take off. Kirby grew to resent all of Marvel for a good long while. Bad blood and bad business.
And Stan Lee was no saint. He was as shrewd a businessman as he was a talented writer.
But make no mistake; Stan Lee definitely had a major hand in creating and co-creating a lot of beloved characters and he most certainly wrote a great deal of the stories.
His endeavors since the golden age haven't been as impressive, but whose are? At least nothing he's written recently comes close to the low, low bar of former trendsetter Frank Miller.
All that being said... I met Stan Lee once, and maybe he's mellowed with time, but he was one of the sweetest, most passionate creators I've ever met. Even in his 90s, he's got a fire for comics, stories, and superheroes that's infectious.
Whatever history exists, or bad blood that once existed, both Jack Kirby and Stan Lee are legends that may never be topped.
And Stan Lee was no saint. He was as shrewd a businessman as he was a talented writer.
But make no mistake; Stan Lee definitely had a major hand in creating and co-creating a lot of beloved characters and he most certainly wrote a great deal of the stories.
His endeavors since the golden age haven't been as impressive, but whose are? At least nothing he's written recently comes close to the low, low bar of former trendsetter Frank Miller.
All that being said... I met Stan Lee once, and maybe he's mellowed with time, but he was one of the sweetest, most passionate creators I've ever met. Even in his 90s, he's got a fire for comics, stories, and superheroes that's infectious.
Whatever history exists, or bad blood that once existed, both Jack Kirby and Stan Lee are legends that may never be topped.
……forgetit
Member
But techno is a real character
Of course he is lol.
*sigh*
Yeah, it's bad, but it's not on the same level of trying to reason his own attraction to 11 year old girls. Like, that's a whole 'notha level
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SiXekh57Sg
Oh boy, that is amazing.
Version 3.0
Member
Maybe, as an artist, Kirby thought you can't tell who wrote something the way you can easily tell who drew something. But sorry, Jack, you can tell, if not as easily.
Tell me Stan Lee didn't write stuff, okay, the obvious question is "who did?". And the answer "I did" is clearly a lie. Lee's dialogue is distinctive, and you can see it on stuff Kirby had nothing to do with. That lie is no more believable than if Stan Lee were to say "I drew all of Kirby's stuff".
Whatever truth is in there is undermined by the obvious lie.
Also, for what it's worth, Stan Lee (from what I've seen) has always taken the high road. He's never tried to discredit anyone, just the opposite.
Tell me Stan Lee didn't write stuff, okay, the obvious question is "who did?". And the answer "I did" is clearly a lie. Lee's dialogue is distinctive, and you can see it on stuff Kirby had nothing to do with. That lie is no more believable than if Stan Lee were to say "I drew all of Kirby's stuff".
Whatever truth is in there is undermined by the obvious lie.
Also, for what it's worth, Stan Lee (from what I've seen) has always taken the high road. He's never tried to discredit anyone, just the opposite.
Yeah, that was awesome.
This.
This interview shows it.
"So, Jack, can you tell us a little about <character>?"
"IT WAS ALL ME, ALRIGHT? Stan would just sit there and move the papers while I did all the work. ALL OF IT! OK?"
Manmademan
Member
The handbooks weren't authoritative and got things wrong all the time. Fans think they were a guideline for what writers could do with a character when they were basically just trivia. One step up from those trading cards with power meters on them
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