If that was the case, the DLC case would be more cohesive and actually bring something into the whole game's overarching story instead of just
the first case when Phoenix gets his badge back.
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Ace Attorney 5: Dual Destinies |OT| Rated M For Objectionable Content
- Thread starter BlackJace
- Start date
If that was the case, the DLC case would be more cohesive and actually bring something into the whole game's overarching story instead of just
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
Thanks a lot!
My original plan was to hold out and play Layton vs Phoenix first but..... I doubt I can wait that long now. I'm cracking!
Pretty much. Original is the outlier as it originally had 4, and that added case 5 is meaty as hell. T&T was 5 while having a short 4th, and the other games have all had 4.
Aside from Investigations I guess.
Original game also had the incredibly short case 1, so saying it had five needs to have a little qualifier. The series usually has four cases. AA3 and AAI seem to be the most expansive games in the series, and then AA5 takes the crown when the DLC is factored in, judging by my 3DS play time in the activity log. And since AA5 streamlined most of the investigation phase, I think it's safe to say that it has by far the most content.
So friend just started playing and is asking whether to play the DLC after case 2 or finish the game first. I wanna say after case 2? Trying to think of anything it would ruin for the main game but can't come up with anything.
DLC spoilers:
DLC spoilers:
(yes, spoilers) There's Pearl of course, but I felt her re-introduction was done better in the DLC, with cutscene and stuff.
Finally taking some time to tackle the DLC case, but felt like giving my thoughts on the main game first.
While I loved it and really enjoyed my return to the Ace Attorney world this game was not without fault. Let's start with what I loved. I was very pleased they didn't rely on nostalgia and old characters at all, but focused on new people the whole way through nearly. As well those new characters and cases were pretty great. Everyone was well designed, with interesting quirks and personalities. The look of the game was amazing and they perfectly translated the game from 2D sprites to 3D models. It's a fantastic foundation for future titles. Now onto the issues.
First: Athena is the worst designed major character in the franchise. She's pretty good as a character, but looks wise she's so so and honestly the best parts of the game were having Trucy tag along as a side kick. Also Fulbright was terrible looking too. I hope they bring back Emma after this and fix her terrible appearance in AJ. Other than that like I said before new character were all pretty good if not great in design and use.
Second: The sequence of events in this game is confusing as fuck. I never knew when things were supposed to be happening in conjunction with one another. Jumping back and forth from one event to another, from one attorney to another was just way to convoluted and unnecessary. It added nothing to the game and just made events confusing.
Third: Too many attorneys. While again I actually like Apollo and Athena was a solid addition, having all three conduct cases and more importantly have their own abilities really watered things down. In JfA, T&T and AJ you had the one attorney with the one ability to use on cross examinations and investigations. But in DD you have those two plus Athena's super hearing. While again a good addition, if a bit too cutesy, having all three used throughout the game was very weak.
Athena's got the most attention but the other two do come up, but this happen like twice for Phoenix and three, maybe four times, for Apollo. In the end trying to incorporate all of them just hurts all of them since no one ever gets enough exposure to really find some depth and difficulty. That said my favorite new addition to the series was the vastly under utilized Thought Routes they used twice? It was a perfect mechanic for the series, but again could have been used a few more times for added depth and difficulty.
Fourth: Shit was easy. Following on the last point, the game overall was crazy easy. Part of that was thankfully due to what seemed like the removal of requiring the player to do things in certain illogical sequences or present very specific pieces of evidence like previous entries had, but they didn't balance that out with harder cross examinations or anything. The game practically told me what evidence to present and what to press and challenge. Past games almost always had me stumped for at least a bit on what evidence to present or what part of a statement was wrong in nearly every case, but not here. Especially not in case 5 and the final confrontation which was almost offensively easy and underwhelming.
Fifth/Final: This will be somewhat odd complaint since I already said the use of all three attorneys and their unique abilities watered down the experience, but I was very sad to see they basically threw out the investigation mechanics and evidence examination. Investigation were just way too easy and straight forward and the fact that every time you examined an item was story specific was really cheap and easy. The game needs more things like repairing the vase, spraying luminol, dusting for prints and stuff. I know they probably want to differentiate between AA and AAI series, but come on.
While I loved it and really enjoyed my return to the Ace Attorney world this game was not without fault. Let's start with what I loved. I was very pleased they didn't rely on nostalgia and old characters at all, but focused on new people the whole way through nearly. As well those new characters and cases were pretty great. Everyone was well designed, with interesting quirks and personalities. The look of the game was amazing and they perfectly translated the game from 2D sprites to 3D models. It's a fantastic foundation for future titles. Now onto the issues.
First: Athena is the worst designed major character in the franchise. She's pretty good as a character, but looks wise she's so so and honestly the best parts of the game were having Trucy tag along as a side kick. Also Fulbright was terrible looking too. I hope they bring back Emma after this and fix her terrible appearance in AJ. Other than that like I said before new character were all pretty good if not great in design and use.
Second: The sequence of events in this game is confusing as fuck. I never knew when things were supposed to be happening in conjunction with one another. Jumping back and forth from one event to another, from one attorney to another was just way to convoluted and unnecessary. It added nothing to the game and just made events confusing.
Third: Too many attorneys. While again I actually like Apollo and Athena was a solid addition, having all three conduct cases and more importantly have their own abilities really watered things down. In JfA, T&T and AJ you had the one attorney with the one ability to use on cross examinations and investigations. But in DD you have those two plus Athena's super hearing. While again a good addition, if a bit too cutesy, having all three used throughout the game was very weak.
Athena's got the most attention but the other two do come up, but this happen like twice for Phoenix and three, maybe four times, for Apollo. In the end trying to incorporate all of them just hurts all of them since no one ever gets enough exposure to really find some depth and difficulty. That said my favorite new addition to the series was the vastly under utilized Thought Routes they used twice? It was a perfect mechanic for the series, but again could have been used a few more times for added depth and difficulty.
Fourth: Shit was easy. Following on the last point, the game overall was crazy easy. Part of that was thankfully due to what seemed like the removal of requiring the player to do things in certain illogical sequences or present very specific pieces of evidence like previous entries had, but they didn't balance that out with harder cross examinations or anything. The game practically told me what evidence to present and what to press and challenge. Past games almost always had me stumped for at least a bit on what evidence to present or what part of a statement was wrong in nearly every case, but not here. Especially not in case 5 and the final confrontation which was almost offensively easy and underwhelming.
Fifth/Final: This will be somewhat odd complaint since I already said the use of all three attorneys and their unique abilities watered down the experience, but I was very sad to see they basically threw out the investigation mechanics and evidence examination. Investigation were just way too easy and straight forward and the fact that every time you examined an item was story specific was really cheap and easy. The game needs more things like repairing the vase, spraying luminol, dusting for prints and stuff. I know they probably want to differentiate between AA and AAI series, but come on.
SpoonyBard
Banned
I agree on all but the first part. IMO only Maya has been a better sidekick than Athena. Especially Pearls was annoying... And I also liked Fullbright, other than his silly catchphrase. Well, he was not as good as Gumshoe, but not many characters are. I'm kind of combining personality and design here... But to me they go hand in hand in these games. There's no disconnect between the looks, dialogue and personality.
Red Arremer
Member
See, I found those mechanics/minigames to be utterly annoying.
I can understand that since in previous entries they were also sparsely used since most were additions for the DS versions of the game not from start, but if they implemented stuff like that from the outset it could be done well, like it is in AAI. Otherwise you just get lots of taking and nothing else between the courtroom.
Yeah that's probably why I didn't like Athena as much as I should. She just doesn't look that great, where Trucy is one the best designed characters the series with a lighthearted and goofy personality plays off Phoenix and Apollo well.
Nothing can be more annoying than a Red Arremer
lolololol
But I get where he's coming from, there has to be a point where you give the player control and time to analyze a scene and they just took it all away really.
Not that I'm objecting entirely to it, as a person who has played adventure games in the past, mass-clicking on static images is a honed skill.
Red Arremer
Member
I understand that point, and didn't argue against it. I just didn't like the minigames with blowing into the mic and tapping the screen repeatedly. 
I could not disagree more. The dynamic of changing between the attorneys was amazing and it's something I hope stays with the series from here on out. It would actually feel lacking for me if it went back to just being a single, playable attorney again.
As fun as it was, the trade off wasn't totally worth it for me. The attorney abilities is one of the main and few actual gameplay elements in the series and having to divide everything up between the three of them severely impacted their use and challenge. The Mood Matrix definitely got the most exposure, and was interesting, but it never was much of a challenge. Apollo's perceive is a very interesting mechanic that again was used a few times to some effect but was never anything more than a diversion and finally Psyche-locks for Phoenix were basically there for nostalgia's sake and nothing else.
I'm not against them using everyone again in some way for AA6, I'm sure they could do something with the cases divided up 3/1/1, but they really need to balance it better so that we can actually get some depth and challenge from their abilities otherwise they might as well not even be there.
That or introduce a new mechanic that is shared among all three. So their individual abilities can be used on occasion but the real focus and challenge will come from something they can all do and is built up and developed over the course of the game irregardless of who happens to be the main attorney at that point. Which I wouldn't be opposed to, but they need something. Without sufficient challenges, forcing you to analyse the evidence and events, along the way the games become far less rewarding.
I'm sure I could live with them going back to one attorney (or maybe make Edgeworth the star, how about it, Capcom), but I agree, switching between them was maybe my favourite part, structurally speaking. Made parts like
Apollo "turning" against you
Still probably my favorite case of the series. They really tried to utilize all the features the DS had to offer and it payed off big time. It's long, engrossing, challenging in multiple ways and an all around awesome case.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Thanks, I was just voicing my appreciation for the spin-off. I sure wish they would make a second one for me to play and enjoy and praise and give them money for.
I know I want to play this but decided to play through at least some of the previous games first.
Already had 1-3 on iPad so I'm playing through those at the moment.
Do I need to play the Miles Edgeworth or Apollo Justice games before Dual Destinies, or can I skip them? Asking because it'd cost £30+ even second hand to buy both of them at the moment. All of the Phoenix Wright DS games are still quite expensive here, even the first.
Already had 1-3 on iPad so I'm playing through those at the moment.
Do I need to play the Miles Edgeworth or Apollo Justice games before Dual Destinies, or can I skip them? Asking because it'd cost £30+ even second hand to buy both of them at the moment. All of the Phoenix Wright DS games are still quite expensive here, even the first.
Magicpaint
Member
Alternate costumes for Phoenix, Apollo and Athena. Old school suit for Phoenix, casual outfit for Apollo and school girl outfit for Athena.
I recommend you play AJ first (buy it new for less than £15 from amazon.co.uk) and overall you shouldn't skip any AA title.
Definitely play Apollo Justice, it has the most ties to Dual Destinies than any other game. Investigations is optional but I'd still recommend it if you liked the other games.
I recently finished the game. I enjoyed it for the most part, but the last two cases really didn't hook me like some of the last cases in the previous games. I did really enjoy case 3 though. Unfortunately, I never played Apollo Justice so there were a lot of references that I didn't get.
HOWEVER, I just finished the DLC case last night and it was absolutely great! It was by far my favorite case in Dual Destinies. It was fun, the twists were somewhat unpredictable, and the characters were fantastic.
HOWEVER, I just finished the DLC case last night and it was absolutely great! It was by far my favorite case in Dual Destinies. It was fun, the twists were somewhat unpredictable, and the characters were fantastic.
I just finished it myself and was quite satisfied. The game transitioned very well into 3D and it was nice to finally see a new interface matching the modern era. Athena was a great side kick although I didn't really feel her parts as the main character. Possibly she was portrayed a bit too much as a rookie? I don't know.
Are we still doing spoilers in the thread? I'll mute this just in case.
I'll rank it below the original trilogy but above Apollo Justice and Investigations, it was enjoyable but flawed. Hopefully there's more coming.
Also, this track was pretty great: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui8I7JsrygA&list=PLz03h4sXl2_erx72N_Tp2thPhe6rYk5-l&feature=player_detailpage
Are we still doing spoilers in the thread? I'll mute this just in case.
Most cases were good enough, the second had some great laughs, such as everything Mr. Filch, but did drag a bit and the third was bordering on too inconsistent at times (at best I've tolerated the worst cases of "well WHERE's THE EVIDENCE THAT YOUR CLIENT DIDN'T DO IT HUH" previously in the series and this had a lot of it) and way too melodramatic in the end, I would place it as one of the weakest of the series so far. The first was a good enough opener and the fourth actually sold me on its premise and made me actually feel cornered while defending Starbuck. Really good stuff.
The final part was good, but the story was weak. It was trying to tie all of this Dark Age of the Law" into too much and I really wasn't sold on that. The overall theme of fighting against public mistrust could be great, but first of all it's a bit of a rethread of Ace Attorney 4 where the fight for a jury system took place (and I didn't think that game pulled it of either). But more importantly, this dark theme never really felt present in the game: There's barely any showing of this mistrust, we are only told that it's present. The court room audience as usually seem to be watching a soap opera unfold in front of them, enjoying themselves and applauding when the rulings are handed down.
I think they totally missed the opportunity to create an oppressive atmosphere surrounding the court system, where the public oozes of discontent at the shenanigans unfolding in front of them, all the way from the prosecution not seeming to be critical of either evidence or witnesses or the attorneys semi-bluffing their way through nitpicking testimonials. You need to experience the problems first hand to give the moment when you together with the hard-pressed Edgeworth finally cut down to the bottom of the issue any real impact.
(Also I think the court system has seen bigger problems than a single prosecutor being sentenced for committing a murder, given events of AA1-4, 1-5 and Ace Attorney Investigations 2)
Also, this seems to be a common complaint from having read a few pages here, but the game was very much too easy. Christ, you don't need to tell me the answer to every cross examination and combine it with only having one place at any time to investigate. As I remember from Ace Attorney 2 you sometimes would need to gather more evidence to break Psyche Locks, here it was always possible at once and the solutions were obvious. I mentioned feeling cornered at some points, but there should have been many more of those to make the victories count more. In the end I resorted to never pressing during a cross examination unless I really couldn't find some solution.
So those are some parts I think the game could have tightened up a bit more. I really enjoyed switching main character between cases and the production values were excellent. It made me laugh quite a bit, especially the puns on justice and every time Athena flashed her incredibly smug grin. I'll get the DLC case sometime soon since that seems to be recommended.
The final part was good, but the story was weak. It was trying to tie all of this Dark Age of the Law" into too much and I really wasn't sold on that. The overall theme of fighting against public mistrust could be great, but first of all it's a bit of a rethread of Ace Attorney 4 where the fight for a jury system took place (and I didn't think that game pulled it of either). But more importantly, this dark theme never really felt present in the game: There's barely any showing of this mistrust, we are only told that it's present. The court room audience as usually seem to be watching a soap opera unfold in front of them, enjoying themselves and applauding when the rulings are handed down.
I think they totally missed the opportunity to create an oppressive atmosphere surrounding the court system, where the public oozes of discontent at the shenanigans unfolding in front of them, all the way from the prosecution not seeming to be critical of either evidence or witnesses or the attorneys semi-bluffing their way through nitpicking testimonials. You need to experience the problems first hand to give the moment when you together with the hard-pressed Edgeworth finally cut down to the bottom of the issue any real impact.
(Also I think the court system has seen bigger problems than a single prosecutor being sentenced for committing a murder, given events of AA1-4, 1-5 and Ace Attorney Investigations 2
)Also, this seems to be a common complaint from having read a few pages here, but the game was very much too easy. Christ, you don't need to tell me the answer to every cross examination and combine it with only having one place at any time to investigate. As I remember from Ace Attorney 2 you sometimes would need to gather more evidence to break Psyche Locks, here it was always possible at once and the solutions were obvious. I mentioned feeling cornered at some points, but there should have been many more of those to make the victories count more. In the end I resorted to never pressing during a cross examination unless I really couldn't find some solution.
So those are some parts I think the game could have tightened up a bit more. I really enjoyed switching main character between cases and the production values were excellent. It made me laugh quite a bit, especially the puns on justice and every time Athena flashed her incredibly smug grin. I'll get the DLC case sometime soon since that seems to be recommended.
I'll rank it below the original trilogy but above Apollo Justice and Investigations, it was enjoyable but flawed. Hopefully there's more coming.
Also, this track was pretty great: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui8I7JsrygA&list=PLz03h4sXl2_erx72N_Tp2thPhe6rYk5-l&feature=player_detailpage
Hours Left
Member
The second AAI is so incredible too. One of the best games in the series.
Black Republican
Member
finished the game about a week ago, great game. not touching the original 3 but better than 4 and miles edgeworth. playing the dlc episode now.
Case 2 (the mayor one) probably one of the weakest story in the series though, loved the characters anywyas
Case 2 (the mayor one) probably one of the weakest story in the series though, loved the characters anywyas
I know, even people that didn't like the first one really stand behind the sequel. If it weren't for that fan translation, I'd be crying in a corner all day.
There's a fan translation?!
Not to make this about AAI2, but the whole game is translated on YT, if you just wanna watch. Then there's a ROM patch that's being worked on. They've released the first two cases back in September, see this thread.
Personally, I'm not gonna touch any of it. I'm waiting (im)patiently for the full patch.
I'm on case 4 now.
Love his animations.
Starbuck's animation definitely the best. He and Yuri Cosmos justified the 3D model transtition.
Young Magus
Junior Member
SPACE LARRY!!!!!!!I'm on case 4 now.
Love his animations.
5...4....3....2...1 BLAST OFF!!!!!
Link1110
Member
Aai2's last two cases felt like they could've been one long case. Of course they were both normal length and the stopping point was fairly logical
Maybe they felt that every game since 2004 except one had 5 cases so people might feel gipped if they didn't have 5!
Look at Larry's neck. Why does his spacesuit look like it has a catholic priest uniform under it?
Hours Left
Member
The cases in AAI2 are already quite long. Combining 4 & 5 would make it gargantuan!
Link1110
Member
Yep, but those two cases did feel like one long story.
Hours Left
Member
All of AAI2 felt like one continuous story IMO, that's why it's so awesome.
Just finished 3rd case - my god, it was so good. Intense, funny, everything was here.
However, I have a huge problem with pinpointing events to timeline :/
Could anyone help me out?
However, I have a huge problem with pinpointing events to timeline :/
1st case - let's name it's date with an X
2nd case - before X
3rd case - after 2nd case and before X
Now, in the outro to the 3rd case, Apollo said something about checking the case, where the bomb took off. So I guess he was talking about the case where the bomb has exploded and Ted Donate wanted to frame Juniper Woods.
So, I start up 4th case, I watch intro, go to the court and... see Apollo with damaged eye? What the heck? So this takes place AFTER the first case? I thought it would take place before the first one, because this is what Apollo had been saying in the outro to the 3rd case :/
2nd case - before X
3rd case - after 2nd case and before X
Now, in the outro to the 3rd case, Apollo said something about checking the case, where the bomb took off. So I guess he was talking about the case where the bomb has exploded and Ted Donate wanted to frame Juniper Woods.
So, I start up 4th case, I watch intro, go to the court and... see Apollo with damaged eye? What the heck? So this takes place AFTER the first case? I thought it would take place before the first one, because this is what Apollo had been saying in the outro to the 3rd case :/
Could anyone help me out?
Correct and the special episode takes place before all that I believe.
I just finished the game. Man what an experience. I missed Phoenix Wright and this game just pressed all the right buttons for me, especially the special case.
Fweet, fweet *click*
I think it goes 2->DLC->3->4(Apollo)->1->4(Phoenix)->5
That will be explained.
Black Republican
Member
Any rumors about another dlc episode?
They've confirmed they're done with DLC and are working on the next game.
A bit oaf bump, but I just started playing this. It's my first AA game (well, played a bit of the first one) and I love it! I know I'm supposed to play Apollo Justice first, but oh well. I just ordered it.
Only just finished case two, but man I love this game aleady. Some crazy ass characters too
Only just finished case two, but man I love this game aleady. Some crazy ass characters too
Damon Bennet
Member
You should play aaaaall the other ace attorneys before. Way too many running gags etc