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Ace Attorney [Mafia] |OT| Turnabout Scum

Flatearthpandas replaced hipster and I prodded him a couple times for conversation, he's come in and said some stuff, I'm not sure I like the stuff he's saying, doesn't seem like there's much substance there. He tends to refer back to "I don't know what hipster was thinking" as a defense which I'm not a fan of.
Eh, not really. Obviously none of us know what he was thinking but I did speculate on what he was thinking and analyzed his posts and actions and it really isn't scummy. What do you want? The suspicion here is not based off of anything Hipster did, it's based off of TWE beginning his meltdown. There's not much to defend.
 

squidyj

Member
Eh, not really. Obviously none of us know what he was thinking but I did speculate on what he was thinking and analyzed his posts and actions and it really isn't scummy. What do you want? The suspicion here is not based off of anything Hipster did, it's based off of TWE beginning his meltdown. There's not much to defend.

so give us something, all i really know about you is that you're against lynching starsketch or having her switch her target. You said you wanted us to go on someone else but I have no real idea who you think that should be or why.
 

Sorian

Banned
Current Vote Count:

StarSketch (3)
Xamtheking
Matt Attack
roytheone
CrimsonFist
CornBurrito
TheGoddamn
Xamtheking
StanleyPalmtree

flatearthpandas (3)
squidyj
CrimsonFist
CornBurrito

SalvaPot (2)
ScraftyDevil
Redfalco

Xamtheking (1)
StarSketch

EzekelRAGE (0)
TheGoddamn

CornBurrito (0)
EzekelRAGE

8 votes are needed for majority.
 
so give us something, all i really know about you is that you're against lynching starsketch or having her switch her target. You said you wanted us to go on someone else but I have no real idea who you think that should be or why.
Like I said, I'll get to that tonight with my reads list. In the meanwhile, Ice found it strange how there are prods and votes on me from people who don't seem generally interested in engaging anything I am writing right now.
 
I think there are good odds of there being a scum or two on the TWE vote between MA/Roy/Drago/Zubz/TG

Pointed out in my reads list that Drago made a bunch of votes to Avoid hitting TWE, though he eventually hit him as seen in the vote count. He also prodded HC, if we're still going down the 'scum teammates trying to wake inactive partner' route.
 

roytheone

Member
The way I see it, there are three explanations for star being weird about her role pm wording:

1. Sorian wrote the pm unclear
2. Star was genuinely confused by her role pm and got things wrong
3. She is scum that is making it up as she goes.

1 is extremely unlikely, Sorian is a terrible person but not because he sucks at writing role pm's ;) 2 and 3 are about just as likely to me. I have played a game with town Star before and honestly, she was very confused about a lot of things there too. I wouldn't be surprised if she genuinely read her role pm wrong. However, it could just as easily be a cover for her to hide her mistakes behind as a scum making shit up. For now, I am not going to vote for her since the power she claims is not an easy one to hide with, if she is lying that will probably become clear eventually, but I will keep my eyes on her.

For now, I will put my vote on:

VOTE: Salvapot

Quantum was weird with that opening post of him just going to follow Scrafty. Drago had mostly prod votes, an extremely safe read list and a vote on TWE after he already had quite a bit of votes. Salva posted a lot more then the other 2, but reading his posts I don't really get a good feeling for who he thinks is suspicious. He is suspicious of Xam , but it is very unlikely we are going to lynch Xam anytime soon. He also defends Starsketch, which considering it looked like that one of those two was going to be lynched today would be a good move for scum if Star is actually town: Star gets lynched and flips town -> salva gets some town points for defending her. Salva gets lynched and flips scum -> Star would become even more suspicious since a scum defended her.
 

roytheone

Member
BTW, I assume a towny having the evidence counts as "an active killing ability"? So if Cornbro manages to give the override to a towny and he/she doesn't use it, that would block the scum from achieving their win condition, right?

However, even more importantly:

And you don't have Missile to give out? Now that's just bad game design.

THIS IS TRUE! WHAT THE FUCK SORIAN??? WHY ARE YOU IGNORING THE CUTE PUPPY??? :mad:
 
This is not comprehensive as I only reviewed all posts on those I didn't have reads on, and I'll mark them out for reference. What I would like to do next is check Bowlie's posts to see if it seems more likely he killed N1 or 2. I suspect we're at 1.5 kills per night now and am curious whether Shelly blackmails the night of the kill or the day before.

1. Barrylocke [m] - Died N1

2. Bowlie [m] - Died N2

3. CornBurrito [m] - has a history of driveby votes and lazy overreaction in the game. If items weren't confirmed I would think him scum but it's still pretty convenient it didn't go through last night. Reluctant town read, possible neutral. Second most dangerous role revealed. Town, but scummy.

4. Crimsonfist [m] - like CB, has demonstrated multiple instances of lazy overreactions. He started the Kalor bandwagon and has gone after several inactives, which is fine, but also their replacements. Easy targets with some lazy logic is an easy way to keep an active vote. Especially if you leave it there after prods are answered. I'm curious to look into what inactives he's left alone, if any. Scum.

5. EzekelRAGE [m] - I get town reads from Zeke though I believe he has the most dangerous revealed role to town. As has been pointed out, he can dick us over just as easily as he can save the day. I think town needs to get a leash on this power somehow. Town, maybe neutral.

6. Hipster Cthulhu [m] flatearthpandas [m] - confirmed town. As far as hipster, he never did anything scummy in my eyes. He was a new player and demonstrated that, but he didn't do anything scummy. Votes right now are a lazy excuse to avoid scum hunting imo. Again, town.

7. Kalor [m] - Died D1

8. Matt Attack [m] - posts infrequently but is not inactive. Responds when summoned which shows intentional lurking without hiding it. I see nothing suspicious in the content of his posts and he did deliver the dissertation on TWE. Null, leaning town.

9. QuantumBro [m] Drago [m] SalvaPot [m] - Talk about overreaction. I found nothing too concerning about QB's intro. His "I lost one game doing this" post was probably the most suspicious to me. Honestly, I think suspicion on Salva based on QB is lazy and hard-headed. Kalor, confirmed town, claimed familiarity with the community QB hailed from and also saw nothing suspicious about it. That isn't to say he wasn't scum, but I want the discussion more on Drago and Salva because harping on QB seems extremely lazy. Null.

*10. Redfalco [m] - Maybe the most inactive person in the game with something like 8 posts to date. That said, his frequency is increasing of late and I find his reasoning to be sound and thoughtful. Town.

11. Ri'Orius [m] - Died N2

12. RobotNinjaHornets [m] - Died N1

13. roytheone [m] - my GOAT brethren. Very active with meaty posts but perhaps my previous experience with him leaves me wary. Null read. I think there's more that can be revealed about the blackmail.

14. ScraftyDevil [f] - confirmed town. Would like to see her more active. I get that people are horrified at the idea of people hiding in her shadow but she is the only one we can all 100% believe is at least trying to act in favor of town and I think we could use some more directed activity from her. Town obvs.

15. squidyj [m] - rubbed the wrong way by him abandoning a prod vote on me and clearly avoiding conversation in favor of some sort of nameless pressure. Seeing as I know I'm town and scum can be reasonably sure I'm town, any shift actions towards me have to be read as scummy. Apart from that, I've been reading him town.

*16. StanleyPalmtree [m] - nothing really stuck out to me. He's fairly inactive but hasn't done anything scummy imo. Caught some of CB's oversensitive useless belaboring early game. Null.

17. StarSketch [f] - as started before, I find her claim/gambit good enough that other scum targets would be a better lynch. Keeping scrafty alive is extremely important imo. That said, scum read.

*18. TheGoddamn [m] - I reviewed all his posts and really still have nothing to say about him. Curious. Null.

19. TheWorthyEdge [m] - Died D2 - Who stood to actually gain by that meltdown? It certainly wasn't me, as some would imply. That's where I intend to look tomorrow.

20. Xamtheking [m] - really shaky reason for cop claim. Has only "cleared" town. Survived a 2 kill last night which is increasingly suspicious if it seems Bowie killed N1 and Shelly killed N2. Null read.

*21. Zubz [m] - Not a lot of strong feelings. Warning bells with him commenting on N1 and missing the opportunity to change his vote but then he had a solid pick and town ML'd anyway.
 

Sorian

Banned
wakana-sleep(a).gif
 

squidyj

Member
15. squidyj [m] - rubbed the wrong way by him abandoning a prod vote on me and clearly avoiding conversation in favor of some sort of nameless pressure. Seeing as I know I'm town and scum can be reasonably sure I'm town, any shift actions towards me have to be read as scummy. Apart from that, I've been reading him town.

what the fuck are you talking about abandoning a prod vote and avoiding conversation?
 
Star, why did you make so many slips on D1 if you knew you had a powerful role that could be vital to town?

I made one slip day one- One. Everyone else blew it out of proportion. Also, if I didn't attempt to do something to contribute it would come across as a scum player trying to coast, which would have the same effect as me screwing up
 
You seem to be exaggerating my actions D1 a lot, Xam. I wasn't "fixated" on there being a neutral, and they only thing I did D1 that was scummy was the comment about my role PM.
 
what the fuck are you talking about abandoning a prod vote and avoiding conversation?

You voted almost two days ago.
Vote: flatearthpandas

still waiting to hear from you.
That is a prod vote. Previous to the vote, you said Hipster hid bad play behind his being a new player. I said I didn't find his behavior scummy. He was clearly new but I'm not seeing the supposed anti-town play he was hiding. You didn't respond to that or really acknowledge that I was here at all except when engaging another player. That's what I mean by abandoning a prod.

Avoiding conversation may not be the right term. But not engaging.
 
Xam, why do you seem especially eager to lynch Star? I'll be taking a very close look at your prior actions if she turns out to be innocent.
 

squidyj

Member
You voted almost two days ago.

That is a prod vote. Previous to the vote, you said Hipster hid bad play behind his being a new player. I said I didn't find his behavior scummy. He was clearly new but I'm not seeing the supposed anti-town play he was hiding. You didn't respond to that or really acknowledge that I was here at all except when engaging another player. That's what I mean by abandoning a prod.

Avoiding conversation may not be the right term. But not engaging.
What you say about hipster isnt really relevant. You're saying "guys i think that guy that was me was pretty town guys im town". There isnt much to say in response to something as weak as that. So ive been waiting for you to contribute something worthwhile. Your reads post is weird and i disagree with a lot of it. I don't like that you call the more aggressive players in the game lazy. Where does that.come from?
 
Xam, why do you seem especially eager to lynch Star? I'll be taking a very close look at your prior actions if she turns out to be innocent.
After a good chunk of thought, I think Star's claim is just a little too convenient to be true, especially because it's not verifiable unless she roleblocks a PR, which seems like a really good way to fake a role claim because it's hard to verify unless you want to volunteer a PR to get jailed, which if there is no jailer and it's just a scum gambit, can lead to a quick and easy PR kill for scum.
lol what kind of question is that. People don't make mistakes on purpose. They are mistakes.

I made one slip day one- One. Everyone else blew it out of proportion. Also, if I didn't attempt to do something to contribute it would come across as a scum player trying to coast, which would have the same effect as me screwing up
It seemed to me like you were doing something fairly risky with the PM stuff, because if you didn't do it right, regardless of your alignment, people would get suspicious of you. If you are to be believed that you are indeed a Jailor-type role, I would like to know why you decided to talk about the win condition in the way you did in the first place.
 
What you say about hipster isnt really relevant. You're saying "guys i think that guy that was me was pretty town guys im town". There isnt much to say in response to something as weak as that. So ive been waiting for you to contribute something worthwhile. Your reads post is weird and i disagree with a lot of it. I don't like that you call the more aggressive players in the game lazy. Where does that.come from?

What else can I say about him? There's not a lot of content and what is there is not that bad and easy to understand.

I didn't call anyone lazy, I said some people have demonstrated lazy overreaction. "This guy said 'hell' in his post, think we found some SCUM!" Stuff like that. There is a decent amount of this in the thread and bewildered targets wondering what the hell is going on while a few usual suspects bang on about not that much. I find that lazy and unproductive for finding scum.
 
After a good chunk of thought, I think Star's claim is just a little too convenient to be true, especially because it's not verifiable unless she roleblocks a PR, which seems like a really good way to fake a role claim because it's hard to verify unless you want to volunteer a PR to get jailed, which if there is no jailer and it's just a scum gambit, can lead to a quick and easy PR kill for scum.



It seemed to me like you were doing something fairly risky with the PM stuff, because if you didn't do it right, regardless of your alignment, people would get suspicious of you. If you are to be believed that you are indeed a Jailor-type role, I would like to know why you decided to talk about the win condition in the way you did in the first place.

Like I said: I am terrible at making reads Day 1 and I don't like aiming at what feels like random targets. I wanted to contribute to the discussion, so I chose a meta-game topic because that feels firmer to me than "I don't like this guy, he must be scum."
 

roytheone

Member
Pandas, could you elaborate a bit more about your null reads of me and Xam? You are suspicious of both of our claims (Xam his cop claim, and you think I am hiding something about the blackmailing), yet you give us null reads? I can understand null reads for people that haven't said a lot, but for me and Xam?

Also, you say we shouldn't focus as much on Quantumbro but more on Drago and Salva, but you don't really give your opinion on them either, in your read list you only talk about what you think of Quantumbro. You are kinda doing there yourself what you say we shouldn't do.
 
Like I said: I am terrible at making reads Day 1 and I don't like aiming at what feels like random targets. I wanted to contribute to the discussion, so I chose a meta-game topic because that feels firmer to me than "I don't like this guy, he must be scum."
Unvote
I am much the same way.
After this chain of events, I'm at a loss at what to do today.
 
Also, I wasn't trying to exonerate myself with the "My role Pm says x" thing I was being unnecessarily honest, and if editing was allowed if have edited it out because I realized almost immediately it sounded bad.
 
Also, I wasn't trying to exonerate myself with the "My role Pm says x" thing I was being unnecessarily honest, and if editing was allowed if have edited it out because I realized almost immediately it sounded bad.
My mistakes comment was in terms of "this is a super important thing, you would think she would have double and triple-checked the post to make sure it makes sense"
 

squidyj

Member
What else can I say about him? There's not a lot of content and what is there is not that bad and easy to understand.

I didn't call anyone lazy, I said some people have demonstrated lazy overreaction. "This guy said 'hell' in his post, think we found some SCUM!" Stuff like that. There is a decent amount of this in the thread and bewildered targets wondering what the hell is going on while a few usual suspects bang on about not that much. I find that lazy and unproductive for finding scum.

you're not supposed to say anything about him, you're supposed to establish yourself as trying to figure out the game. If we're banging on about the wrong tiny things what should we be banging on about? In your reads list I didn't see you propose a target for this day phase. Teach us oh master scum hunter.
 
Pandas, could you elaborate a bit more about your null reads of me and Xam? You are suspicious of both of our claims (Xam his cop claim, and you think I am hiding something about the blackmailing), yet you give us null reads? I can understand null reads for people that haven't said a lot, but for me and Xam?

Also, you say we shouldn't focus as much on Quantumbro but more on Drago and Salva, but you don't really give your opinion on them either, in your read list you only talk about what you think of Quantumbro. You are kinda doing there yourself what you say we shouldn't do.

It may be my inexperience but I tend to think scum would want someone active and trustworthy in front of the town unless god forbid that was supposed to be TWE. I know you can pull it off so I just want to stay on my toes. I guess the null read is really a town read but one which I feel needs vigilance. If you are hiding something about the blackmail, I don't think that's necessarily scummy. Have some theories but there's not anything substantial yet.

As for Xam, maybe null isn't the best way to phrase. I have Corn Burrito as a begrudging town read because his town factor overrides his scum factor but I get feelings both directions. Xam is kind of the same way except the feelings are more balanced.

Fair enough about QB, and that's why I have a null read overall. I need to look more into Drago and Salva. I guess I'm actually leaning a bit scum there but I want to review it.
 
you're not supposed to say anything about him, you're supposed to establish yourself as trying to figure out the game. If we're banging on about the wrong tiny things what should we be banging on about? In your reads list I didn't see you propose a target for this day phase. Teach us oh master scum hunter.

Not sure what has your hackles up. I'm certainly no master scum hunter but if jumping on people for using the word "hell" is valuable scumhunting to you then fair play. I'll vote a target when I have one. I don't yet, but you may have noticed I posted a few lines of thought I'd like to pursue with the rest of the day. I may or may not have time depending on how my day goes and how much more defense I have to run trying to prevent a ML, but I'll get a vote out for sure.
 
The "Stanley is role playing, he must be scum" thing was really weird. I wouldn't make a call on it but that is a very strange thing to fixate on.
 
now both of you are blowing that whole thing out of porportion.
noone still here (r.i.p bowlie) fixated on the excessive roleplay, it was very quickly dropped for a focus on actual fruitful discussion.
 
I think Edge brought up the frame job theory yesterday but it is interesting that 2 of 4 NK's are the sole CornBurrito voters. Feeble frame attempt? Intricate frame attempt? Coincidence? Seems too unlikely for a scum team to allow if CB was scum. Also doubt it's some kind of passive power on CB.

I read through Bowlie's stuff and have no feeling on who he might have targeted. At the very beginning of D2 after the night results were posted, he had a post that just said "shit." Those happen, but knowing he was a vig, could've had something as he knew he NK'd a town.

That would put Shelly as delivering first and then killing if true. If Shelly is N2, could explain why Ri'Orius was killed though, since the frame thing had already been brought up at that point and Shelly would only have to propagate it. Not much use speculating more there until tomorrow though if we see 0-1 NKs and a new blackmail.
 
now both of you are blowing that whole thing out of porportion.
noone still here (r.i.p bowlie) fixated on the excessive roleplay, it was very quickly dropped for a focus on actual fruitful discussion.

You have a post claiming the suspicion was getting out of hand. But I don't disagree with you. It wasn't a big event, just an easy example of a certain type of activity which has occurred a few times.
 
Honestly I do find it a bit unfair to flatearth that my vote is on him due to his replacement being inactive, and the whole TWE debacle.

If I had to pick someone else, I'd go for StanleyPalmTree, or Drago.

Both have posted very little.
 

roytheone

Member
Honestly I do find it a bit unfair to flatearth that my vote is on him due to his replacement being inactive, and the whole TWE debacle.

If I had to pick someone else, I'd go for StanleyPalmTree, or Drago.

Both have posted very little.


Uuuh, Drago got replaced by SalvaPot?
 

squidyj

Member
Honestly I do find it a bit unfair to flatearth that my vote is on him due to his replacement being inactive, and the whole TWE debacle.

If I had to pick someone else, I'd go for StanleyPalmTree, or Drago.

Both have posted very little.

Sure, it's unfair to be singled out for something you had no control over, what do you think
about his reads and his comments on how we've been playing the game?
 
So you currently would only vote on people because of inactivity?

Honestly? Yes. I don't currently have a better scum target in my mind.

Inactivity can be a scum sign.

I'm not ready to analyze the top posters though to see which of them is scum. I thought it was squidy but Xam said otherwise. You and Crimson are possibilities.
 
Sure, it's unfair to be singled out for something you had no control over, what do you think
about his reads and his comments on how we've been playing the game?

His read list I didn't find too helpful, but I never find read lists that helpful to be honest.

But he's making a valiant effort to contribute.

I'm torn, because had Hipster not been replaced I'd probably be voting for him due to TWE blowing up over our prodding. Did scum really blow up because we prodded an inactive? An attempt to seem town that spiraled out of control?

I still haven't changed my vote away from panda. But it does sort of seem unfair.
 
His read list I didn't find too helpful, but I never find read lists that helpful to be honest.

But he's making a valiant effort to contribute.

I'm torn, because had Hipster not been replaced I'd probably be voting for him due to TWE blowing up over our prodding. Did scum really blow up because we prodded an inactive? An attempt to seem town that spiraled out of control?

I still haven't changed my vote away from panda. But it does sort of seem unfair.
The TWE blowup about the prod is what led to him getting pressured.
Could be TWE did it to cover for scummate Hipster, I didn't read his actions as being against prod to seem town.
 
The TWE blowup about the prod is what led to him getting pressured.
Could be TWE did it to cover for scummate Hipster, I didn't read his actions as being against prod to seem town.

Yeah. He basically overdefended Hipster over a prod vote, which spiraled out of control until we all pretty much voted him.

I really do believe he overdefended Hipster because Hipster is/was a scum teammate. The only other possibility is he wanted town participation points and didn't realize how out of place his reaction sounded until it was too late.

I'm gonna apologize but I think I'll leave my vote on Panda. Because if I'm being honest that's who I'd be voting for today if there was no replacement.
 
I'm not worried about unfair. I'll be pretty bummed if I have the bad luck to get immediately booted from two games in a row, but I really don't see a strong case against me. TWE clearly didn't do me any favors flipping out over a prod vote on Hipster, but do you really think he was trying to?

There's a difference between laying low inactivity and getting removed from the game because no one can contact you. One is scummy and one is just life. There are people on the roster who have been here day one and have less posts than Hipster did. If activity is the trigger, surely there are better paths.
 
I'm not worried about unfair. I'll be pretty bummed if I have the bad luck to get immediately booted from two games in a row, but I really don't see a strong case against me. TWE clearly didn't do me any favors flipping out over a prod vote on Hipster, but do you really think he was trying to?

There's a difference between laying low inactivity and getting removed from the game because no one can contact you. One is scummy and one is just life. There are people on the roster who have been here day one and have less posts than Hipster did. If activity is the trigger, surely there are better paths.

It isn't really the low activity that bothered me.

I think what happened was:

1. Hipster has real life stuff happen. Stops posting. Stops even participating in scum chat.
2. TWE gets worried. And oh fuck, Hispter his teammate gets prodded for inactivity.
3. TWE tries to move votes off Hispter.
4. Backfire ensues.
 
FEP, in the interest of equality for all people, I will treat you the exact same way as I would treat your predecessor
Vote: FlatEarthPandas
TWE went nutso when I prodded your past, failed clone, so I guess this is as good a starting point as any.
 

Zubz

Banned
I find it kind of weird that Stanley's suddenly active now that there's a spotlight on him. He may've just been busy until tonight, but that doesn't sit well with me.
 
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