Xamtheking
Member
My current theory is that both you and SalvaPot tried to give me an item on the same night and they cancelled eachother out
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Ace Attorney [Mafia] |OT| Turnabout Scum
- Thread starter Sorian
- Start date
Current Vote Count:
squidyj (2)
ScraftyDevil
Xamtheking
Zubz (1)
EzekelRAGE
StanleyPalmtree (1)
CornBurrito
EzekelRAGE (0)
EzekelRAGE
I just realized I made an error in the day 4 opening post. I incorrectly said that 11 players were still alive. The actual number of living players is 12 (math is hard). I've updated that post.
7 votes are needed for majority.
Day 4 ends in:
squidyj (2)
ScraftyDevil
Xamtheking
Zubz (1)
EzekelRAGE
StanleyPalmtree (1)
CornBurrito
EzekelRAGE (0)
I just realized I made an error in the day 4 opening post. I incorrectly said that 11 players were still alive. The actual number of living players is 12 (math is hard). I've updated that post.
7 votes are needed for majority.
Day 4 ends in:
Xamtheking
Member
...
I count 11 people
Nah, it's 12. The "missing" one is because Hipster Cthulhu is crossed out with FEP's name written in next to it. I triple checked to make sure before I said I made a mistake.
TheGoddamn
Member
It seems D4 is claiming day. Here's what we've got so far, based on my notes:
Roles, claimed or otherwise:
DEAD
1.Barrylocke [m] - Died N1 -- Miles Edgeworth, Vanilla Town
2.Bowlie [m] - Died N2 -- Franziska von Karma, Town Non-Consecutive Vigilante http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=196936115&postcount=1270
4.Crimsonfist [m] - Died N3 -- Larry Butz, Vanilla Town
7.Kalor [m] - Died D1 -- Gregory Edgeworth, Vanilla Town
9.QuantumBro [m] Drago [m] SalvaPot [m] - Died D3 -- Shelly de Killer, Mafia Blackmailer http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=197339477&postcount=1786
11.Ri'Orius [m] - Died N2 -- Trucy Wright, Vanilla Town
12.RobotNinjaHornets [m] - Died N1 -- Phoenix Wright, Town Jack-of-All Trades http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=196038836&postcount=701
13.roytheone [m] - Died N3 -- Lotta Hart, Vanilla Town
19.TheWorthyEdge [m] - Died D2 -- Manfred von Karma, Mafia Goon (Vanilla) http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=196451813&postcount=1258
ALIVE (let's see if our stories will match up)
20. Xamtheking [m] -- Lana Skye, Cop that sees town/not-town http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=196286720&postcount=1054
3. CornBurrito [m] -- Detective Gumshoe, http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=197173174&postcount=1668 here to save the say with his items http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=197708849&postcount=1846
5. EzekelRAGE [m] -- Mask*DeMasque, vote stealer http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=196064192&postcount=841
6.Hipster Cthulhu [m] flatearthpandas [m] -- Maggey Byrde, Vanilla Town http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=197749641&postcount=1883, confirmed town by Xam
8. Matt Attack [m] -- Mia Fey, immune to blackmail and can cure it http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=197738909&postcount=1868
10. Redfalco [m] -- Diego Armando, Vanilla Town http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=197762735&postcount=1888, confirmed town by Xam
14. ScraftyDevil [f] -- Pearl Fey, Vanilla Town (confirmed town by Sorian)
15. squidyj [m] -- sick, confirmed town by Xam
16. StanleyPalmtree [m] -- Ema Skye, assumes Lana Skye's role should Lana Skye die http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=197743977&postcount=1873
17. StarSketch [f] -- Judge, Jailer http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=197087258&postcount=1555, roleblocking half of ability proven by blocking EzekelRAGE on N3 http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=197639255#post197639255, see Sorian's tally immediately below
21. Zubz [m] -- Maya Fey, Vanilla Town http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=197732785&postcount=1863
18. TheGoddamn [m] -- I thought I had made myself quite riskily obvious, but seeing as I'm still alive, and I've seen no one acknowledge my hints-- and given that we have an apparent embarrassment of PRs and need as much information to protect ourselves in the nights ahead, I'll put myself out there explicitly.
Scents? Hackles? Rockets?
I'm Missile, adorable police dog and more famous than that little shit blue badger!
I'm Gumshoe's best friend.
In another dimension, I also help Sissel!
At night, I may choose to either watch or track a target. I kept my nose down for a reason. Here's what happened on each night!
Ace Attorneys, look for contradictions. Let's fill in the rest of the days with night actions by the power roles. CornBurrito, I'm trusting you now. I'm choosing to believe that you visited roy last night to give him an item as opposed to killing him. I failed to watch Xam on N2, and you also failed to give him his item. One explanation for that that we know of is Star, but she says that she protected/roleblocked Scrafty on both N1 and N2. We should also explore other possibilities:
1. Could a switcher prevent a watch? I have no idea how Xam being switched with someone else would be resolved by Sorian. I'd see... whoever visited the switch target? However, my action did not go through.
2. A protector role would also not be out of the question (I think this is more likely, not least because it would be nice to be protected). Although if there was a protector that blocked your item, it is weird that Star, whose power also has a protective component, allows items in.
3. Xam can be immune to night actions. Is there such a thing? That would make the cop overpowered, and makes no sense with Ema Skye's existence. Still, Xam has had three town checks in a row. Absurd possibility: Xam and Stanley-Ema are partners. Three town checks is very easy for scum (less easy for a neutral) to fake.
Roles, claimed or otherwise:
DEAD
1.
2.
4.
7.
9.
11.
12.
13.
19.
ALIVE (let's see if our stories will match up)
20. Xamtheking [m] -- Lana Skye, Cop that sees town/not-town http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=196286720&postcount=1054
3. CornBurrito [m] -- Detective Gumshoe, http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=197173174&postcount=1668 here to save the say with his items http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=197708849&postcount=1846
5. EzekelRAGE [m] -- Mask*DeMasque, vote stealer http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=196064192&postcount=841
6.
8. Matt Attack [m] -- Mia Fey, immune to blackmail and can cure it http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=197738909&postcount=1868
10. Redfalco [m] -- Diego Armando, Vanilla Town http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=197762735&postcount=1888, confirmed town by Xam
14. ScraftyDevil [f] -- Pearl Fey, Vanilla Town (confirmed town by Sorian)
15. squidyj [m] -- sick, confirmed town by Xam
16. StanleyPalmtree [m] -- Ema Skye, assumes Lana Skye's role should Lana Skye die http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=197743977&postcount=1873
17. StarSketch [f] -- Judge, Jailer http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=197087258&postcount=1555, roleblocking half of ability proven by blocking EzekelRAGE on N3 http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=197639255#post197639255, see Sorian's tally immediately below
21. Zubz [m] -- Maya Fey, Vanilla Town http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=197732785&postcount=1863
18. TheGoddamn [m] -- I thought I had made myself quite riskily obvious, but seeing as I'm still alive, and I've seen no one acknowledge my hints-- and given that we have an apparent embarrassment of PRs and need as much information to protect ourselves in the nights ahead, I'll put myself out there explicitly.
Scents? Hackles? Rockets?
I'm Missile, adorable police dog and more famous than that little shit blue badger!
I'm Gumshoe's best friend.
In another dimension, I also help Sissel!
At night, I may choose to either watch or track a target. I kept my nose down for a reason. Here's what happened on each night!
On N1, I watched CornBurrito, seeing him as a possible prominent town who was up for death. No one visited him then.
On N2, I watched Xam. He'd claimed cop at this point, and was definitely a target. Curiously, my action that night failed.
On N3, I followed CB. He'd claimed, and I was suspicious. Scum had also been killing very unlikely targets, so I decided to track then. He visited roytheone. Roy died on N3.
Ace Attorneys, look for contradictions. Let's fill in the rest of the days with night actions by the power roles. CornBurrito, I'm trusting you now. I'm choosing to believe that you visited roy last night to give him an item as opposed to killing him. I failed to watch Xam on N2, and you also failed to give him his item. One explanation for that that we know of is Star, but she says that she protected/roleblocked Scrafty on both N1 and N2. We should also explore other possibilities:
1. Could a switcher prevent a watch? I have no idea how Xam being switched with someone else would be resolved by Sorian. I'd see... whoever visited the switch target? However, my action did not go through.
2. A protector role would also not be out of the question (I think this is more likely, not least because it would be nice to be protected). Although if there was a protector that blocked your item, it is weird that Star, whose power also has a protective component, allows items in.
3. Xam can be immune to night actions. Is there such a thing? That would make the cop overpowered, and makes no sense with Ema Skye's existence. Still, Xam has had three town checks in a row. Absurd possibility: Xam and Stanley-Ema are partners. Three town checks is very easy for scum (less easy for a neutral) to fake.
Xamtheking
Member
We Matt Attack now?
...
So another action failed on me N2? Interesting, indeed. Throws my item-blocking theory into the Endless Void.
So now we come to an impass.
Who is lying, and who is telling the truth.
Xamtheking
Member
And outside of the multiple ships by Cabot, no, I am not partnered with StanleyPalmtree. In fact, I almost investigated him last night, but decided to switch to FEP instead.
EzekelRAGE
Member
I have an idea of what we can do, waitin for all nameclaims though.
Xamtheking
Member
I think our next best course of action is to further drill into those I have investigated, because as CornB said, there is likely a Scum Godfather or similar role among them.
Squidyj is sick, but that doesn't give him immunity.
RedFalco and FEP need to be questioned while they are here.
Squidyj is sick, but that doesn't give him immunity.
RedFalco and FEP need to be questioned while they are here.
Xamtheking
Member
TheGoddamn, I'm not convinced you're not just a dog acting like a human
You're much smarter than a dog, though. You certainly know when to hold them and when to smell them.
CornBurrito
Member
Which is an awful theory imo. Can you explain how it makes sense?
StarSketch
Banned
I expected to die, yes. I can't jail myself, so it was either act and hope I don't die, or not act and have nothing if I survive.
Xamtheking
Member
There was talk earlier about roles possibly countering each other, and that was the basis for the theory. In hindsight, though, that's a horrible trade for the Town-aligned Item giver
Xamtheking
Member
Are you vanilla town too?
CornBurrito
Member
I sort of believe TheGoddamn, but sadly there's little he can do right now to establish his claim. It does seem a bit coincidental that he happened to watch/follow only people I've specifically mentioned visiting in this thread. But I wasn't particularly subtle about having a PR and my targets were fairly obvious for being watched in general.
I'm curious though, has anyone else with a night action tried targeting Xam?
We've had near everyone claim and there's nothing to establish how Xam could somehow be immune to Missle (TheGoddamn) and my own role. Xam's own theory (receiving multiple items somehow canceled it all out!) makes zero sense.
I almost want to say that Xam is the Godfather since those are also sometimes immune to night actions. A godfather faking a cop claim is absurd though.
Unless of course scum has a cop, which would make sense if they need to track down a neutral with a killing power.
Anyway I'm not advocating lynching Xam. But if Stanley is to be believed, we have a backup if Xam dies. I suggest NO protective rolls do anything to Xam tonight. Then multiple people can target him with their non killing roles. I can give him an item, TheGoddamn can watch him, Ezekiel can steal his vote, etc...
If they all fail, Xam will have some explaining to do. Unless the blocker is somehow scum. But then that creates a weird situation where a scum blocker somehow provides protection for our cop without neutralizing the cop. Which sounds like a role that wouldn't exist.
I'm curious though, has anyone else with a night action tried targeting Xam?
We've had near everyone claim and there's nothing to establish how Xam could somehow be immune to Missle (TheGoddamn) and my own role. Xam's own theory (receiving multiple items somehow canceled it all out!) makes zero sense.
I almost want to say that Xam is the Godfather since those are also sometimes immune to night actions. A godfather faking a cop claim is absurd though.
Unless of course scum has a cop, which would make sense if they need to track down a neutral with a killing power.
Anyway I'm not advocating lynching Xam. But if Stanley is to be believed, we have a backup if Xam dies. I suggest NO protective rolls do anything to Xam tonight. Then multiple people can target him with their non killing roles. I can give him an item, TheGoddamn can watch him, Ezekiel can steal his vote, etc...
If they all fail, Xam will have some explaining to do. Unless the blocker is somehow scum. But then that creates a weird situation where a scum blocker somehow provides protection for our cop without neutralizing the cop. Which sounds like a role that wouldn't exist.
EzekelRAGE
Member
Now that everyone has claimed. I say we can sorta test Xam's claim by lynching SP. SP's claim/role pm would confirm whether or not we have a cop and it is Xam.
Xamtheking
Member
I on board with this if others are.
EzekelRAGE
Member
Also, we can test TG's claim as well, by having him follow me tonight and he has to state who vote I stole the following night phase. Even if I die that phase, the rest of town would be able to get confirmation on TG's power since the vote would show it.
I like this second part, but not the first part so much, take a step back and think about it.
Xamtheking
Member
Explain yourself this instant.
CornBurrito
Member
That's assuming we don't have an odd setup with
Scum Xam - primary cop
Town SP - secondary cop
I do think that's unlikely though.
But before we do any voting I'd really like to establish HOW Xam was immune to getting my item, and immune to being watched by TheGoddamn.
TheGoddamn
Member
Another possibility is that Stanley is piggybacking off your claim. You've claimed Lana for what, two real life weeks? Plenty of time to develop the claim.
I'd much rather ride the highway to the danger zone
wrong Kenny
Admittedly, for my first post of D4 I was considering putting it all out there and saying that I saw you visiting roy, but I then I saw that you'd beaten me to it by immediately saying that you tried to give roy your item. (This is what I was trying to say when I said I had circumstantial evidence against you.) Regarding not being able to prove it right now, at this point, I don't think I was in particular danger of being lynched, so I claimed fully in good faith. We can certainly prove it tonight with your suggestion.
Considering that there have been two nights since Xam claimed, it is very likely that scum have targeted Xam (if of course Xam is town). He claimed on D2; our actions failed on N2. Perhaps he was protected and scum also failed to kill him that night. Or there's something more to his role that he's hiding. It doesn't need to be said that there's something more to someone's role that they're hiding, because...
Yeah, of the claimed roles, nothing has accounted for the events of N2.
As I alluded to above, I'm good with participating in this plan. If we do this, I'd like to request that on the morning of D5, no one else who performed night actions on Xam post that they did so until I report the results of my actions.
Fake edit: Oh, well. Ezekel's plan is... hmm. The opposite of CB's. I'll think about that as I go to bed. It's nearly 0400h here. First thought is that it won't explain Xam and N2, whereas CB's will.
if we kill a potential backup cop what's to stop scum from killing you and removing our investigative ability? if our only protective role is supposedly starsketch who functions also as a role block, killing someone who claims to be a backup cop essentially leaves us copless.
Xamtheking
Member
I think you don't want Stanley to die
CornBurrito
Member
Honestly, this isn't a game about PR. PR are nice, but we can scum hunt without a cop.
Xam's cleared 3 people (if you aren't a Godfather), if his claim is legitimate. That's a respectable amount.
Also Xam still hasn't died, and was somehow protected from getting my item or being watched on N2. We somehow have another protective role unless Xam is somehow night action immune. That protective role can still keep on protecting Xam.
I'm just worried that of the minimum three fake claims in the game right now, one or maybe even two are convincing enough to carry through to the end game. I want to make sure that we're properly considering the ramifications of such a play.
Xamtheking
Member
I will explain when I have enough time to make a big enough post.
CornBurrito
Member
Minimum three fake claims?
EzekelRAGE
Member
At least 2 more scum and neutral killer
do you believe scum started with less than 4 players? do you believe scum gets 2 night kills?
CornBurrito
Member
True. Scum probably has 2 more members.
CornBurrito
Member
This is actually a "fake" grammatical rule. Less and fewer were, for a long time, both used with countables and noncountables. The change was due to the personal preference of an elitist grammarian in the late 1700s.
CornBurrito
Member
Speaking of which, did your teammates already use up all the fake claims that Sorian gave you? Is that why you've name claimed but not role claimed?
yep you nailed it, sorian fucked up and didn't provide my scum team with enough fake claims to cover everybody /s
seriously though, I'm Apollo Justice and I'm Vanilla Town, I was going to not reveal my role and try to suggest I had some power to hopefully eat a bullet in the night but if I'm going to continue to be pushed like this then there's no reason for scum to come after me even if they thought I was a PR unless I claimed something ridiculous.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
just making sure, you all remember that i said my role Pm doesn't actually state who is the investigator right? just that there is one.
if you all agree think that lynching me is truly the best course of action then i will differ to your judgement, but please do be certain about it, i would really rather stay alive.
if you all agree think that lynching me is truly the best course of action then i will differ to your judgement, but please do be certain about it, i would really rather stay alive.
It would be a weird twist for xam to have claimed before you, claimed your older sister, claimed investigator that you are backup too, and be lying. that'd be some shit.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
oh i know, thats why im okay with this plan, i just wanted to make sure everyone was clear about it. the noose is going around my neck on this one, forgive me if im a little particular about it.
CornBurrito
Member
You use /s, but in Election mafia the scum team was provided extremely poor roles to claim. Enough names for eveyrone, but not enough believable roles. Maybe Sorian does more work, idk.
I think that no matter who you're looking at that is an incredibly shaky and OGI kind of argument.
flatearthpandas
Member
This is not fully cooked, just spitballing.
Lynch CB. His action is only confirmed D1 when the vig likely used a kill (accounting for two kills if CB is not the neutral killer) and he was supposedly spotted visiting Roy the night he died. If his claim checks out, my bad. This is partially fueled by my never believing this was a town role. If he's a neutral or scum, lynch TheGoddamn.
Xam being immune for N2 could mean
1. Lies made up by CB and perpetuated by TheGoddamn
2. Lies from StarSketch about her target + Lies from Xam about his role
3. Switcher switches Xam and Scrafty + Lies from Xam about his role
4. Other protective role that prevents all night actions without role blocking
Or
Lynch Xam. Half of these scenarios involve him lying about his role. If he checks out we can have more faith in his results. Even if there is a godfather, I agree there are likely at least three targets town still needs to hit.
Lynch CB. His action is only confirmed D1 when the vig likely used a kill (accounting for two kills if CB is not the neutral killer) and he was supposedly spotted visiting Roy the night he died. If his claim checks out, my bad. This is partially fueled by my never believing this was a town role. If he's a neutral or scum, lynch TheGoddamn.
Xam being immune for N2 could mean
1. Lies made up by CB and perpetuated by TheGoddamn
2. Lies from StarSketch about her target + Lies from Xam about his role
3. Switcher switches Xam and Scrafty + Lies from Xam about his role
4. Other protective role that prevents all night actions without role blocking
Or
Lynch Xam. Half of these scenarios involve him lying about his role. If he checks out we can have more faith in his results. Even if there is a godfather, I agree there are likely at least three targets town still needs to hit.
CornBurrito
Member
TheGoddamn can at least vouch for me visting Roy. But Scrafty can confirm I visited her D1, she got an item, and everyone can see she didn't die.
I suppose it is possible she was able to receive the item but not die due to being protected by Starsketch, but that seems a little odd for a role since otherwise the items don't ever come into play except for that one overlap.
I suppose it is possible she was able to receive the item but not die due to being protected by Starsketch, but that seems a little odd for a role since otherwise the items don't ever come into play except for that one overlap.
CornBurrito
Member
I've gotta agree here.
It would be bizarro world to have scum Xam with a town Stanley. A town backup cop that activates only when the scum cop dies?
Stanley meanwhile lends further credence to Xam's claim. If one of them is scum, its going to be Stanley using Xam's claim to fake claim something reasonable.
Xamtheking
Member
After a bit of thought, I actually am not on board with a Stanley lynch, and will be explained in my big post in a few hours.
flatearthpandas
Member
The idea is that you didn't kill N1. You had one item to give out, which we don't actually know if it does anything as Scrafty said she got no instructions or descriptions with it, to establish some trust before beginning NK's.
Fair enough. Just spitballing, like I said.
Xamtheking
Member
So you're saying CB is a neutral that can kill and give out items
flatearthpandas
Member
An item. Just tossing ideas out so they can be collectively investigated or dismissed. I would have a vote out if I felt really good about anything right now.