Adam Sessler & Albert Penello on the Xbox One (Interview)

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Freki said:
afaik pr people like community managers are not welcome here...
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They are. I can think of numerous examples. Frank O'Connor, for instance, used to be Bungie's community manager.

"In the world of invested gamers with a keen eye for news, NeoGAF is notorious. It counts among its members the likes of David Jaffe and Cliff Bleszinski as well as scores of gaming community managers, media and other industry alumni."
 
stryke said:
So why is it that you're giving more weight to the words of Penello when Cerny has gone out to proclaim that multiplatform titles will be better on their system.

Wouldn't he be in a similar situation as Penello right now?
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sure it's similar but I think the Sony design is much more straight forward and comparable to PC whereas the Xbone, at this point, is very unique and hard to quantify results in advance. Which is the jist of his comments... we can not know the nuanced results from the unique architecture until we are working on it and I honestly think they are recently, happily surprised by how well it is preforming compared to theoretical based only on numbers... so M Cerny may not be in as good a position to comment as Albert since he is the one seeing the more unique machine perform

otherwise I do not believe he would be so direct about it and confident that we will continue to see it in the games for ourselves.
 
Albert Penello said:
I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.
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One thing different this time though: We have a Microsoft employee posting on a large influential gaming forum telling us how much it isn't true ;)
 
gamechanger87 said:
Has Sony really been all that open? What's the CPU speed again and the full architecture as laid out by MS at HotChips?
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They've been much more open from the very beginning. They didn't reveal the CPU clock right away but we quickly found out officially it was 1.6 ghz. Microsoft on the other hand only mentioned transistor count (5 billionz!) which is a meaningless number and "The Power of the Cloud™" at their reveal. It really wasn't until Hot Chips that we officially knew what was in the system (even though we have known what's in it for almost a year) but they're still obviously not being very transparent if there is some kind of secret sauce they're not telling us about that bridges the power gap. My question for Microsoft is if you have something in your box that nullifies the raw numbers, why the hell aren't you talking about it?

I think I know the reason (there isn't any "secret sauce") but it's just interesting that he would say such a thing when Microsoft has done literally nothing to dispel the power gap claims.
 
*"(Sony's) doing things in their hardware to make it best that they can. We're doing things to our hardware to make it the best that we can. I don't believe the difference between these systems will be as significant as comparing individual components. How is it that a 400 HP Porsche can be faster than a 700 HP Corvette?" -- Overall it's balance and trade offs and it'll come down to the games.
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The Microsoft PR analogy aimed at brain dead people is strong in that one.
 
LQX said:
Forza 5 and Ryse look better than anything coming for PS4 day one.
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ibyjHUoXh1u3jH.gif


This thread keeps delivering.
 
Curufinwe said:
I'm not criticizing you because I've seen this said elsewhere, but I don't know how we got to the point where the system that needs specialized features and hardware to address it's much lower bandwidth is somehow more balanced with fewer bottlenecks.
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No worries. But I'm not the one putting the argument forward - I'm just trying to make sure I understand the argument being made.
 
Klocker said:
sure it's similar but I think the Sony design is much more straight forward and comparable to PC whereas the Xbone, at this point, is very unique and hard to quantify results in advance. Which is the jist of his comments... we can not know the nuanced results from the unique architecture until we are working on it and I honestly think they are happily surprised by how well it is preforming compared to theoretical based only on numbers...

otherwise I do not believe he would be so direct about it and confident that we will continue to see it in the games for ourselves.
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It doesn't matter what Xbox one has, Its GPU is limited to 1.31 (1.19?) TFlops and can't go higher (except with overclock). The second any game uses more than 1.32 (1.20?) TFlops in PS4, that game will always be better (graphics) in PS4.

EDIT: XBox one OS reserves 0.12 TFlops from GPU, only 1.19 Tflops for games.
 
avaya said:
Maybe you should read the first sentence. The second sentence is a general statement, have you revealed your name and position? No.
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I haven't revealed my name explicitly, but you can feel free to follow me on twitter at cjcarryskip, and I work on the security team on windows phone. This has been said multiple times in my posts before. Probably from a quick google-fu you could look up my entire history--as I recently posted where I grew up, have posted where I went to college, have posted several things about my family, my major, my college. I hide virtually nothing, but don't really like writing out my name in a forum. If you want to do the small amounts of research it would take, then go ahead. You can also friend me on PSN at cjarrett3, and we could play some soul sacrifice or do a hot shots golf tournament. Or on Steam lastlfowers, where we could play some CS:GO.
 
Albert Penello said:
Performance: I’m not dismissing raw performance. I’m stating – as I have stated from the beginning – that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…
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Are you really comparing the Ps4 advantage to the PS3 advantage? That's ridiculous. With how similar these new consoles are, the power difference would only be more noticeable than ever before. The PS4 has the clear power advantage now. No amount of spin will change that.
 
Andronicus said:
outside of threads & articles of what devs have said about one title looking slightly better than another out of the 2 platforms, I think we have no idea because they are showing the version of one system or another to the public & not both.

& saying that the gap wont widen over 10 years with the graphics hardware differences is kind of....um crazy?
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Hey now, I am not saying there wont be a gap in 10 years, he said that. I am sure we will be able to see a difference BUT the general joe blow gamer???
 
R dott B said:
Aside from Killzone, I agree.
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Driveclub is better looking than Forza. Easily.

In fact I'm sure a lot of people would agree that's one of the problems with the game. They're pushing so much graphics stuff that they can't guarantee it'll be 60fps in a genre that demands it.
 
Garrett 2U said:
I second that. Killzone looks phenomenal. Ryse and Forza have the next best graphics though.
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I'm gonna third that since I haven't seen enough of the launch titles. I would put Drive Club in there after looking at the newer builds. It's also doing some things that Forza isn't doing at the compromise of frame rate.
 
Garrett 2U said:
I second that. Killzone looks phenomenal. Ryse and Forza have the next best graphics though.


Well that just ain't right.
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Yeah probably

Driveclub is starting to look quite pretty though but never have a good eye for racing games

Will have to see gameplay in home first

Killer instinct is starting to look nice too but not much of a fighting fan
 
Derrick01 said:
Driveclub is better looking than Forza. Easily.

In fact I'm sure a lot of people would agree that's one of the problems with the game. They're pushing so much graphics stuff that they can't guarantee it'll be 60fps in a genre that demands it.
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Eh, I'm highly looking forward to DC but I disagree my good Sir.
 
Chobel said:
It doesn't matter what Xbox one has, Its GPU is limited to 1.31 TFlops and can't go higher (except with overclock). The second any game uses more than 1.32 TFlops in PS4, that game will always be better (graphics) in PS4.
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I'm no expert like some here but I think the theory of their design is based on (95% efficiency of 1.3 is much closer to 80% efficiency of 1.8)*

*random numbers out my ass for example
 
LiquidMetal14 said:
I'm gonna third that since I haven't seen enough of the launch titles. I would put Drive Club in there after looking at the newer builds. It's also doing some things that Forza isn't doing at the compromise of frame rate.
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I agree with all the above. Ryse looks great. And personally IMO Ryse is actually much more next GEN than Forza.

Pre baked lightning and no day/night cycle, no weather. Forza made incremental improvements . I am actually surprise how many put forza up as top graphics. Ryse is the cream on XB1.
 
stryke said:
So why is it that you're giving more weight to the words of Penello when Cerny has gone out to proclaim that multiplatform titles will be better on their system.

Wouldn't he be in a similar situation as Penello right now?
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Oh, that's easy. Cerny isn't a Microsoft engineer, ergo he doesn't know all the facts! So just ask somebody who knows! ...Who knows? Nobody knows! Round and round we go, big bucks no whammy!
 
Albert Penello said:
People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.
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I like Penello but this is a bit silly IMO. MS does surely have good graphics programmers but let's not pretend that Sony doesn't as well. You know, Sony who has been at the forefront of console gaming for nearly two decades now.

Saying "we made DirectX, therefore there's no way we can be beaten on graphics programming" comes across as rather arrogant to me.
 
Majine said:
Albert Penello is the PR guy Microsoft needs. He's just great. Just throw everyone else out.
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And the funny thing...is just like Cerny he isn't actually a PR guy...just someone that has average to above average social skills that also knows what they are talking about...
 
plagiarize said:
This is blatantly nonsense. They might see minimal differences. They might not care about the differences, but put them side by side and there will absolutely be differences.
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Right now there is?? I am not even talking about the future which is a forgone conclusion but for right now I am not seeing it.
 
NullPointer said:
The power difference argument in a nutshell seems to be that the bone has a more "balanced" design with fewer bottlenecks, so that in the end the practical results will be negligible.
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That's laughable. Where's the bottleneck on PS4 that isn't present on the Bone?

Using eSRAM as a bandaid for the slow memory (which is more complex for developers) along with less opportunity to use the GPU for compute functions (to reduce CPU load) seems to indicate that the PS4 is actually more balanced. Unless I'm missing something here, in which case I'd love to be enlightened.

Blackvette94 said:
Right now there is?? I am not even talking about the future which is a forgone conclusion but for right now I am not seeing it.
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Probably because you haven't seen a third party game compared on final hardware, let alone unfinished hardware. Comparing first party games at this point is just stupid. Different targets for geometry detail, different philosophies for lighting (see Driveclub's dynamic lighting vs Forza's baked lighting) etc.
 
Albert Penello said:
True story about this interview:

I made poor Adam wait for me for like 20 min. I had totally underestimated the fact it was going to take me NEARLY AN HOUR to find parking at PAX. So I was totally frustrated, had been in a car in traffic for over 90 minutes, and was RUSHING into the convention center. I had just walked in, and had been keeping him and his crew waiting. So I sat down, and we rolled – no prep or anything. I’m surprised I didn’t come across as a complete buffoon given how cold I came into this.

I also found out this was going to be on-camera, which I’m not a big fan of, because, well… look at me. I have a face for Radio.

Anyway I appreciate the kind comments.

I’m not going to get into this PR thing again. There are clearly people who understand, and people who don’t. I’ve been a GAF member for a while, and was a reader long before that. I’ve been in gaming my entire professional career, and a player since videogames EXISTED. I come on GAF because I want to. I don’t get paid to post here or any other silly nonsense. Occasionally, the PR team will roll me out to do official interviews, which I’m not really a huge fan of doing.

Regarding the Kinect video I was talking about. There are several, but the one I like best is this. Also – this is now several months old. Latency is even better now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi5kMNfgDS4

Disc install – Turns out, at this point the speed and throughput of the consoles exceeds the transfer speeds of the disc. I don’t have the exact numbers, but the reason BOTH CONSOLES do mandatory installs is because you’d be actually giving up a ton of potential performance by bottlenecking the systems at the read speeds of the disc. Even on 360 games like GTAV are mandatory HDD installs – at this point reading from disc is just too slow. On top of which, the instant game switching feature goes away…

Performance: I’m not dismissing raw performance. I’m stating – as I have stated from the beginning – that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…
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God, I hope you continue posting, because I sure do love reading it. I have a funny feeling the bolded will be especially true. The thing is, even if the guy works for Microsoft, it isn't impossible that with what he might know secretly about the full details of the platform architecture, and from what he has heard or seen regarding some of the work going on, particularly at the programming and Directx api level, that he has a genuine and, perhaps more informed, view and belief of what will be possible on the Xbox One, irrespective of what will surely be amazing things shown on the PS4.

The point is, just because the PS4 has a well documented on paper advantage that looks pretty sizeable, doesn't mean that Microsoft has to act like they're at a disadvantage. That's a key point, because it seems some really get annoyed or aggravated at the thought that Microsoft won't publicly state that they somehow won't be able to measure up because of what we've seen on paper, and I've maintained for the longest that no matter what the specs look like on the two systems, Microsoft can still very much push the Xbox One as a console that's second to none in power and capability. The raw numbers have never led me to believe that Microsoft has to, or would even consider, somehow shrinking from a discussion regarding hardware performance capability. And they don't have to, because the Xbox One hardware will do incredible things. That isn't somehow restricted to the PS4

Piggus said:
That's laughable. Where's the bottleneck on PS4 that isn't present on the Bone?

Using eSRAM as a bandaid for the slow memory (which is more complex for developers) along with less opportunity to use the GPU for compute functions (to reduce CPU load) seems to indicate that the PS4 is actually more balanced. Unless I'm missing something here, in which case I'd love to be enlightened.
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That bandaid sure worked out quite well for the Xbox 360 with EDRAM. It isn't difficult to see that current generation developers, who clearly have extensive experience with EDRAM on the Xbox 360, may be uniquely in position to hit the ground running with the more versatile ESRAM on the Xbox One. It might be more complex, but after coming from the Xbox 360, embedded memory on a Microsoft console is a thing that's very well known, and Microsoft will have more than likely provided developers with the right information and perfect set of tools to best take advantage of it.
 
Klocker said:
I'm no expert like some here but I think the theory of their design is based on 95% efficiency of 1.3 is much closer to 80% efficiency of 1.8
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What the fuck are you talking about? The PS4 is more powerful, no amount of PR bullshit is going to change that. The PS4 and Xbox One are more directly comparable than any competing consoles before due to having the same processor and architecture.
 
I like Albert, just find it odd he would question Sony on anything.

Not showing off their retail units and now about the specs. All he's doing is setting himself up to eat crow. He's better off answering X1 questions and less flame war remarks.
 
lastflowers said:
I haven't revealed my name explicitly, but you can feel free to follow me on twitter at cjcarryskip, and I work on the security team on windows phone. This has been said multiple times in my posts before. Probably from a quick google-fu you could look up my entire history--as I recently posted where I grew up, have posted where I went to college, have posted several things about my family, my major, my college. I hide virtually nothing, but don't really like writing out my name in a forum. If you want to do the small amounts of research it would take, then go ahead. You can also friend me on PSN at cjarrett3, and we could play some soul sacrifice or do a hot shots golf tournament. Or on Steam lastlfowers, where we could play some CS:GO.
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Yes that's right you haven't revealed your name explicitly. You haven't entered the discussion with "Hi I'm Albert from MSFT". That is the point. Which you seemed to have missed.
 
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